DOJ Taking Down Sites For Infringement... While Infringing Content Is Available Via Its Own Network
from the look-at-that dept
Following on the story of IP addresses assigned to the major Hollywood studios using BitTorrent to distribute copyright-covered works, Torrentfreak and Scaneye are back pointing out that the same thing is true of all of the major labels and various parts of the US government. That last part is interesting, because they show that IP addresses assigned to the Justice Department, Homeland Security and Congress are all being used by people to distribute popular works covered by copyright. Here, for example, is just a snippet of the content being shared via IP addresses assigned to the Justice Department:Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
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–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: congress, dhs, doj, file sharing, homeland security, ip addresses, justice department
Companies: riaa
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And did Mike get spoofed into reporting it?
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It's not a spoof, it's a fabrication.
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I recommend "Department of Just Do What I Say, Not What I do."
Now we await the "facts" no employee would dare infringe using government property but all this was done by that nasty and elusive "Anonymous".
(just like the downloading of porn was the "fault" of malicious software).
Meh. It's the government. I expected nothing less.
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Sorry, Mike
Silly, silly citizen. Don't you know that while all people are created equal, some are more equal than others?
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Spell it out for me, Mike. What is your argument exactly? Are you arguing that "big content industry folks" and "government officials in the Justice Department" are not allowed to enforce copyright law until every single person in their employ does not infringe whatsoever at all? How does that make sense? This is just more sour grapes from you. It's amazing to me how viscerally you hate the MPAA/DOJ.
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Not Mike, but I'd spell it H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y
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Why is that amazing. Pretty much everyone hates hypocrites. Even Jesus.
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Yeah, you would need it spelled out for you.
"hat is your argument exactly? Are you arguing that "big content industry folks" and "government officials in the Justice Department" are not allowed to enforce copyright law until every single person in their employ does not infringe whatsoever at all?"
No, the argument appears to be that it's hypocritical for them to go after others BASED SOLELY ON IP ADDRESSES when people in their employ are doing the same. Basically, "Do as we say and not as we do."
"How does that make sense?"
It makes sense, mr lawyer in training, because it shows that justice is equally doled out to all. Not just those that the various industries dislike for whatever reason. Which is something YOU of all people should be calling for.
"This is just more sour grapes from you. It's amazing to me how viscerally you hate the MPAA/DOJ."
If you replace MPAA/DOJ with Mike/Techdirt that comment would equally apply to you. Perhaps more so. WHY WON'T YOU DEBATE ME?!?! RAWR!!! I'M GOING TO DISRUPT THREADS ANONYMOUSLY AND NOT ANONYMOUSLY FOR DAYS ON END OTHERWISE!!! RAWR!!!
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It's hypocritical, person who apparently hasn't a clue, because if it were any other user they would be making a federal case about it or demanding settlements. It's hypocritical because they demand others keep their affairs in order and monitor anything and everything and everyone under the sun to police infringement and punish/remove accordingly and ASAP, but apparently they can't keep their own houses in order.
That you don't see the connection is more from deliberate ignorance on your part than anything else.
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So if some employee is violating company policy and doing something they shouldn't be doing, you think that company has no place defending its rights? I guess that means that every single company on earth has to shut down. You guys are just so desperate to tear them down. It's hilarious.
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You've made one solid point in your favour, though: the DOJ's behaviour here is no longer the MOST hypocritical thing I've seen today...
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b) It means such groups obviously don't believe the rhetoric they spew about piracy. They regularly compare it to theft, even violent robbery, and talk about how it is always a "crime". Do these companies, and the DOJ itself, not care about employing thieves and criminals? Clearly they don't believe that piracy is as egregious an offence as they claim.
c) It shows that, according to such groups' own arguments, they are themselves liable -- as companies or agencies -- for this piracy happening on their networks. After all, they have repeatedly claimed that an IP address is sufficient to identify someone, and that the person operating a network is liable for the activities of their users. So by that standard, are not the DOJ and the MPAA themselves guilty of infringement here?
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b) So if an employee does something without his boss's permission or knowledge, that means his boss doesn't believe what he says? I don't see it.
c) If someone is using their networks to violate the law, then either that someone or the employer would be liable. Chances are they'll get away with it just like millions of others do.
I applaud you for at least trying to make an argument.
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You're right, I don't know if the DOJ and the MPAA have fired people for this -- which makes me assume they didn't or they are purposely trying to hide the hypocrisy. After all, I sure as hell know every time they target other pirates thanks to their regular press releases and ongoing media push.
When the MPAA releases a statement about its zero-tolerance policy for employee piracy and its ongoing crackdowns, and sends out press releases about the employees they sue for violating this policy -- e.g. exactly what they do when they sue people who don't work for them -- I'll stop calling this "hypocrisy". Until then, it's textbook.
c) So if someone sued the MPAA for sharing on their network, we can assume they would not argue their liability, right? After all, they reject everyone else's arguments on that front, and insist that both companies and individuals are automatically responsible for what goes on on their networks. Granted this is hypothetical, but are you honestly going to tell me you don't think they would take a different view if they were the target of the lawsuit?
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I don't see how it would effect its "desire", but it certainly effects people's perception of that desire and of the rhetoric and policy positions connected to it. That is, of course, why you are so desperate to ignore it.
"we might find out that it was an open wireless connection that a visitor used"
(an argument that copyright holders frequently reject as a valid defence against liability)
You're trying to find something here
Not trying to find anything -- already found a clear example of what virtually anyone would call "hypocrisy". You are convinced that's unimportant or meaningless -- fine. Go read an article that interests you.
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What rhetoric? Point me to something they said and then explain to me how this affects it. You can't.
(an argument that copyright holders frequently reject as a valid defence against liability)
Huh? You have lots of crazy ideas. You should get out and read more than just Techdirt for this stuff. You are just mindlessly regurgitating Mike's bullshit. That somebody else did it can be a defense, no matter who the defendant is. This doesn't affect that at all.
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The MPAA paints piracy as an egregious crime, and frequently compares it to wholesale theft of property. Indeed, it has repeatedly stated that fighting piracy is the organization's "top priority" or a "critical priority".
If stopping piracy is their top priority, and if all pirates are criminals equivalent to car thieves, it reflects rather badly on them that it is happening within their own organization. Apparently you don't agree, but since you are desperate to defend every action of the copyright industries, I'm not too surprised.
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This kinda hurts that message, doesn't it?
Do you think people will be more or less likely to believe the MPAA's harsh condemnation of filesharing -- painting it as "theft" and a "crime" -- with the knowledge that it goes on inside their own organization?
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Nope. Infringement is wrong whether some employee wrongfully does it or not.
Do you think people will be more or less likely to believe the MPAA's harsh condemnation of filesharing -- painting it as "theft" and a "crime" -- with the knowledge that it goes on inside their own organization?
I think smart people will see that it doesn't matter and dumb people will think it means something.
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I think dumb people (like average_joe) will think that it doesn't matter and smart people (like everyone else here) will see it means something.
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And that says everything we need to know about you.
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Always with the high-level meaningless rhetoric. Never with the substance. What is your argument exactly, Mike? Don't pretend like saying "they ought to clean up their own homes first" is actually an argument. It's not. What is your argument, exactly? What exactly do you argue this TF article means? Or do you admit that the article is more hate-fueled, mindless FUD meant to discredit your mortal enemy?
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And as for what it means, it's completely unsurprising that these organisations are gigantic hypocrites, going off their own logic.
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The loudest anti-piracy crusaders can't even keep piracy out of their own back yard. I for one find that amusing, and somewhat telling. It's indicative of what I see as an often-contradictory and hypocritical stance taken by organizations like this — even if there are no specific, strong implications to this one element of the pattern.
If you want to label that "hate-fueled, mindless FUD" then that's your prerogative. Most people seem to have no trouble understanding the subtle implications of this.
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But they haven't.
That's the point, boy.
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Do you really think the DoJ are as technically-incompetent as you, boy?
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1) MPAA and RIAA have both stated that it would be easy for Google and other to stop piracy, stop acting like you have not heard this before, they say it about 3 times a week (course i will give you the benefit of doubt because you might not have heard it over your own minds quacking).
2) any Company or Corporation has certain key values that all of the comapny must believe it, as RIAA/MPAA key focus has been "piracy" for the last 10 years, they have either done a piss poor job of internal branding, or they put up a big front to the outside world and inside its a different matter... your choice on which part of stupid they are.
3) if the IP's of Techdirt showed up YOU would be first in line to say everyone at the company must defend their actions and say its absolute proof, now that its the other way... it must mean something else...
Yup, you qualify to work for any of these asshats with your double speak and sole focus on your objective while disgarding anything that might upset your perfect little apple cart..
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No, Mike pretends like that's what they said. Can you cite to the exact statement of theirs that you're referring to? Nope.
they say it about 3 times a week
Link please to even once.
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http://www.webpronews.com/riaa-inaccurately-criticizes-googles-transparency-2012-05
there 2 now stop wasting my time you want a be shill...
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No, boy, it means the employee doesn't believe what his boss says.
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Marcus 2
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> employees at the DOJ and the MPAA, against
> company policy, are infringing. What does
> that mean?
The same thing it means for any other company caught infringing through employee misconduct.
The RIAA/MPAA care not whether the employees of a company are misbehaving or not. They hold the company responsible, with draconian fines, loss of domain, three strikes, etc.
Why do you think it's inappropriate that the very people who write and lobby for these laws should have to abide by them themselves and pay the same penalties for violating them as everyone else?
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They're b-r-e-a-k-i-n-g t-h-e-i-r o-w-n l-a-w-s, b-o-y!
Consider it spelled out, boy.
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They are pointing a finger saying I stole something of theirs because my IP address was linked to it. They think this is enough evidence that I should be punished. They do not care that it could have been any number of people on the network.
Now on the flip side, here we have their IP address clearly linked to the exact same activity. So if we apply the same logic to them that they apply to me, it means they are also guilty and should get same treatment.
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"So if some employee is violating company policy and doing something they shouldn't be doing, you think that company has no place defending its rights?"
So, what you're saying is that it's wrong to hold the entire company or organization liable for what a few employees are doing?
Sort of like how it's not really MegaUpload's responsibility if individual users used the service to infringe? Or how The Pirate Bay should not be held liable for what their users do? Or how it's not really Google's fault what their users post on YouTube? Etc, etc, etc....
You mean like that?
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I am over it, I'm just pointing out how it's hypocritical of you to tell me I'm super angry when I am anything but. And your "evidence" of me being "angry" is me quoting you. If anything my quoting you shows who the angry person has been for quite some time now.
Also, if you think Mike's dishonest and not answering questions, and he refuses to respond, perhaps you should take your own advice. GET OVER IT.
"So if some employee is violating company policy and doing something they shouldn't be doing, you think that company has no place defending its rights?"
Did you see me say that? No, cause I didn't. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their actions thus far. If anyone else had done the same thing, and the evidence was merely an IP address, they'd be all over them and making examples out of them and flaunting them for all to see what happens when you infringe someone's copyright. In addition to which, they routinely point at Google and demand they "do more" and monitor everything everywhere at anytime and say "it's easy to do so" and "it's easy to know what's infringing". Yet here we have people under their own roofs committing infringement. It would be prudent for them to make examples of said employees. "Why?" you didn't ask. Because it shows that justice will be served regardless of who the person is and where they are employed. It sets a good example and a great precedent.
"I guess that means that every single company on earth has to shut down."
No, it doesn't. Especially since your statement is made about something I quite clearly never stated nor implied.
"You guys are just so desperate to tear them down."
No, we're not. But what is being shown is that piracy is happening to some degree even in those holy of holies (the DOJ and the movie studios). And it would be hypocritical of them to not do something about it.
"It's hilarious."
Yeah, your comments thus far are. Hand waving and outright dismissal of what's going on, as well as hypocrisy on your part. "Do as I say, not as I do." Hi, I'm average_joe. Only I'm allowed to be angry on this website. And justice is only for those I and the DOJ/studios deem it should be, meaning us. If a regular person, or person we don't like does something we don't approve of, we will bring down the full weight of the law on them (and then some, even if it requires breaking the law to do so). But don't you dare point out that we're breaking the law and actually making a mockery of the justice system in the process! Or else I'll cover my ears and just say "na na na I can't hear you". Because I'm average_joe and that's how I roll.
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As a professional, seek help, proving Einstein was correct is not healthly nor conductive to long term well being...
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1. Accept that there are issues you disagree with people on and if they are assinine, well let it go or ignore their vile while answering the underlying point. Those are not worth discussing anything with (Life is too short and all that). I let Out_of_the_blue write his own things without answering since he is not interested in discussing. Works for both of us!
2. You get emotional and pike people by either ad hom'ing it up yo, strawmanning bigtime, exagerating like no tomorrow and generally do not show any respect of the people you argue with. I do the same at times, but it is really pronounced from you. It is immature and doesn't strenghten your point in any way. Go for factual answers by shooting down claims by sourcing or work around their critisism. "soft position bargaining" is a strong tool if you are a fish in sharky water. It is the only way to reason with some of the large egos here.
3. You don't need to get the last word to make people change minds and you certainly don't need to invest emotionally in what you write. It is hard to get critizised for what you write, but sometimes you have to work the angles and accept that your first post was unnuanced. Thereby you can avoid a lot of the meaningless ad hominem shit like all that is written in this post.
4. If you want a battle of sourcing, you should always show that you are yourself ready to keep up to a standard on that subject by providing the first. It is an unwritten law of good argumentation.
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> policy and doing something they shouldn't
> be doing, you think that company has no
> place defending its rights?
The entertainment industry can defend its rights all it likes, genius. However, it should be subject to the same penalties and punishments that it would see imposed on everyone else.
Why do you have such a hard time with the concept of equal application of the law to everyone?
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And we will hound you, boy, until you answer honestly. Get over it.
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Oooh! You almost got it! Try to continue that train of thought, you might get there...
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sine timore aut favore
or in Plain English
Without fear nor favour
Sadly your bias of only stating that some pigs are created more equal than others is letting your Orwellian side shine through.
Though since law is really in effect a governmental construct to impose order, predictability, equity, structure, security, and above all else confidence onto the public in its many institutions I would say if they do not take issue with this matter within there own nest so to speak they have no basis on which to prosecute or otherwise anyone else.
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As you have noted, these companies and government agencies are probably unable to monitor the use of their computer systems to ensure their employees are not using these systems for infringing purposes. They are, however, frequently claiming that Google is capable of making sure every employee of every company and government agency worldwide can be monitored to ensure they do not upload infringing content.
This is torrent tracking. So, it seems to indicate that the computers on these networks (presumably behind a firewall of some sort) are allowed to have and use torrent software. Is this an indication that these companies and agencies cannot block torrent software, or is it an indication that torrent software is somehow being used in a useful and legal manner by employees of these companies as well.
Considering these companies have the IP address of these computers, and these appear to be companies and agencies interested in stopping piracy, why don't we see a significant number of lawsuits against the employees, agencies, or companies involved? Aren't these basically low-hanging fruit?
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When you can't argue the facts or counter the clearly-stated position held in many articles (and explained when you asked before), claim ignorance.
Do you find this tactic works, or are you pretending to have the intellect of a root vegetable for fun?
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What is the argument exactly? It's not ignorance. This article is pure FUD. Mike can't even make a cogent argument, so he goes with the vague "get your house in order!" argument. What does that mean? Is no company allowed to enforce its rights until every single employee at the company never breaks any law? I don't get it because there's nothing to get. It's hate-fueled FUD from the master whiner himself. His hatred and anger have clouded his judgment so much that he can't even make an argument. He just posts anything he can find from any source that can possibly be used to make them look bad. Mike doesn't want to add anything to the discussion about IP policy. He just wants to hate people and be a complete childish asshole.
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Hardly FUD. There's no element of fear, uncertainty, or doubt here.
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Hardly FUD. There's no element of fear, uncertainty, or doubt here.
How do you know that they didn't find the infringer and fire him? You guys are really reading into this too much. It's FUD because it just lays it out there hoping that the reader will use their imagination to fill in the gaps. They can't stop an employee from deciding to break the law more than any other company. If Leigh drinks and drives, I wouldn't blame Mike.
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They can't stop an employee from deciding to break the law more than any other company. If Leigh drinks and drives, I wouldn't blame Mike.
That's about the weakest analogy I've ever seen. If Leigh drinks and drives a car on public streets, it's his choice. If Leigh gets drunk and drives the TechDirt company forklift through their warehouse and winds up running over Tim Cushing, you'd better bet they'll be in deep doo doo with OSHA, among others, for failing to prevent an obviously drunken individual from operating their heavy equipment.
Your move, AJ.
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Keep desperately trying to downplay this Joe. 30-odd comments of you basically screaming "Nothing to see here" while waving your arms, hoping somebody will believe you. Trying to impress a potential future employer maybe?
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Prenda Law.
He's got the trolling down. Just needs to get his law degree. Just a few more cracker jack boxes and that'll do it.
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I'm actually struggling to work out what you're on about here. On the one hand, you seem to be admitting that you know what Mike is talking about (it's rich that the DOJ are helping to attack every other company and/or individual when its own employees are committing the same "crime") while attacking him for not making himself clear. On the other hand, you're attacking him for whining, while spending a long time doing the same thing yourself without ever getting to anything resembling a point.
Make up your mind. Either you don't know what he's saying (as you originally made out), or you don't like how he's saying it (which doesn't invalidate any point he's making). Pick one.
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As if that would make a difference to you?
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I don't think he has an actual argument, and he's just throwing this out there in yet another sad attempt to discredit the MPAA and the DOJ, two organizations that he clearly hates with all of his might. It's childish sour grapes, and he's clearly writing these types of articles for the dregs of society. His audience and TorrentFreak's audience are one in the same. That says all you need to know about Mike. At least TF is honest about their beliefs.
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Yes, boy.
It's "Do as I say, not as I do" until they do.
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"they ought to clean up their own homes first."
This is a stretch even for Malleable Mike. It's so flimsy that he even has to list the caveats.
Click here for Mike "Streisand Effect" Masnick!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Help make Mike the #1 quipper on the net! -- Click one for The Quipper!
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Re: "they ought to clean up their own homes first."
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Actually, it doesn't. I agree that IP addresses are poor indicators of an individual, but this evidence does not indicate that until they track an IP back to someone who didn't infringe.
What this information IS indicating pretty clearly is selective enforcement of law - which seems far worse.
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See for yourself the new laws recently passed.
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Re: "they ought to clean up their own homes first."
However, when the MPAA is shown, from the same datapoints, to be infringing on the laws they helped to write, sudddenly it's a "rogue operator".
Does that phrase sound familiar? That's because News International used that phrase back in 2009, when the first inklings of Press malfeasance were exposed in the UK.
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Oh and hope you had a good holiday Blue we all missed ya...
...Though our aim is getting better ;)
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now let's get to the 'we are going to sue everyone that downloads illegally' part...!!
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now i would guess that since everyone mentions that these are STATIC ip addy's registered to the various orgs and domains that someone took a list and started comparing it against swarm data. that would be my assumption.
but we all know what happens when you assume. So what's up techdirt, who's compiling a database of swarm IP's that these are being run against?
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Mike doesn't use sources or do other basic things that journalists do when they want to be taken seriously. Mike wants the world to take him seriously, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't want to do the work to earn that sort of respect. He prefers citing TorrentFreak and leaving all the FUD sitting there for his minions to let their imaginations run wild over. Just look at the foaming-at-the-mouth idiots lapping it up in the comments. Mike's resigned himself to catering to the criminal masses rather than using his intellect for better purposes. It's sad, really.
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That's giving him a lot of credit. The reality is much worse: AJ is a mediocre law student who believes everything he says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff.
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Isn't that just a basic part of being a crooked lawyer? Being able to believe your own lies wholeheartedly even when they go against other lies you hold onto.
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I'm sure some people who read this blog don't pirate. Myself, for example. But obviously Mike caters the pro-piracy crowd.
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You keep saying this, but you've yet to provide anything like evidence. Nice touch, by the way, slipping the "obviously" into a statement of opinion to make it seem more like a statement of fact.
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I am a copyright infringer and proud of it. I've got multiple terabytes of content on my computer that infringes.
I am also a customer. Just counting installed PC games, I have 784 gigabytes worth of games bought and paid for (there are more games stored on my hard drives that are paid for but not installed).
Now, let's say I become a target of a copyright lawsuit and I lose. What happens? I become indentured to pay off the resulting fine for the rest of my life (thanks to statutory damages), but I also swear off purchasing anything copyrighted as well. The copyright industry, in trying to control what physically cannot be controlled in the 21st Century, will have lost a willing customer.
This is what is called the practical train of thought. You sound like you go for the ideological train of thought, but in having defended the MPAA so vigorously in the article with the evidence of infringement on their own computers, you've lost all claim to being ideological.
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You and Mike should exchange phone numbers.
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*slow clap*
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You use it waas well, boy, to defend the DoJ employees who violate the laws they're supposed to enforce!
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Specially if the law makes everything against the law.
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Burgers?
Pizza?
Chinese food?
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In fact, I'll be helpful. Here's my account
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RikuoAmero/games?tab=all
Apart from the ones that Valve deliberately releases as Free to Play (and maybe a couple of titles I won in previous sales), everything there is paid for.
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He just links to the sources, whcih is far more than you do, boy.
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and as i mentioned, this issue isn't something necessarily from techdirt, they didn't break it, and were really only repeating the information that was in the torrentfreak article with a bit of polish. I only asked because i figured it was an obvious question more likely to get answered here.
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Mc lars says it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o0W8CjFz0I
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So your answer is "The BitTorrent monitoring firm, Scaneye."
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If you are part of the high class (read what was once royalty) then you are held to different levels of punitive damage than the low (or poor).
It an be seen here that in house is not the same as for everyone else.
It can be seen with the dealings between the SEC and bankers. Such as the HSBC fiasco, where HSBC was dealing with drug cartels, laundering money, and dealing with terrorists. Any of those charges get the lower class in jail for years. HSBC got a fine the equivalent of 1 month's profit after doing such business for years.
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If nobody talked you into doing something you likely wouldn't have done normally, it's not entrapment even if police enable your actions.
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@Michael Long
It's not a spoof, it's a fabrication."
Look here, you computer illiterate fool.
https://www.countryipblocks.net/
And take your words and stick them where the sun don't shine.
http://i.imgur.com/kyg00.png
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Re: @Michael Long
USAISC Headquarters: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-4-0-1
NASA: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-19-0-1
Texas Instruments, Inc.: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-102-0-1
Carnegie Mellon University: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-107-0-1
DoD Network Information Center: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-155-0-1
and ...
Department of Justice: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-192-58-200-0-1
Of course, maybe I'm computer illiterate, too, and I'm just doing my ARIN searches wrong.
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Looking at those 3 examples
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