Copyright Insanity: School Policy Requires Students Hand Over Copyright On All Work
from the that-test-you-got-a-C-on?-school's-copyright dept
There are some absolutely ridiculous situations created by the fact that all creative works are automatically granted a copyright on being put into a fixed form. Mostly, we just ignore these situations, because the vast majority of them never matter. But, as copyright has become more and more ridiculous, some people are beginning to start to make use of the stupid fact that all kinds of things can be "owned" that probably shouldn't be "ownable." Take, for example, school work. If a student creates something, it is covered by copyright, though most people never really consider or care about that. However, the board of education for Prince George County in Maryland is apparently considering a new "copyright policy" in which all students and staff would have to assign all of those copyrights over to the school system itself.The school board claims it's doing this to keep up with the times -- especially the growing use of things like electronic curricula created by teachers, but obviously the policy goes way beyond that. Of course, we've seen other schools get greedy and seek to copyright and sell off curricula created by teachers. And that's already a crazy idea. But to have students' work included as well is (rightfully) angering a number of people.
Either way, this is yet another example of the insanity created by "ownership society," in which people are being fed the ridiculous line that all ideas and information can and should be "owned" thanks to things like copyright and patents. Is it any wonder that now our public schools even going down to elementary schools, are seeking the "rights" to student creations in order to create for profit ventures? This is a public school system, a place in which knowledge is supposed to be shared for the sake of learning. And the lesson they're sending is that information is to be hoarded by powerful entities for the sake of profits. Shameful.
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Filed Under: copyright, maryland, prince george county, students, teachers
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It's for the children! Are you possibly telling us that you don't care about the children Mike? You know, the school must do that to protect the children from having their creative works from being downloaded by people like you and TD freetards. Filthy pirates, all the lot of you.
/delusionaltroll
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Why my brother was kicked from school, the school had to pay for his private schooling because the public school refused to take him.
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Love my state
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Re: Love my state
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Doesn't go far enuf
Isn't only fair that she (and the administrators who guided her) should get a percentage of the proceeds from your written work as an adult?
Won't somebody please think of the teachers???
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Re: Doesn't go far enuf
Please think of our future! (signed publishers of all sorts)
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Re: Re: Doesn't go far enuf
Let's see, that's one licence per page, per book, per student, plus the added fee for printing on both sides of a page. There's also the licenses for teachers, and the licenses for any relevant art supplies, like construction paper. (Oh, and naturally the school will have to surrender any confiscated copyrights for works created on paper media.) Altogether, I'd say that's about 90,000 paper licenses. Eh, make it an even 100,000.
It's not easy for paper manufacturers to get by in the digital era, y'know. Everyone's going "paperless" these days. Won't someone think of the paper manufacturers?!
(Now, let's talk toilet paper. You can pay by the square if you like, but I personally recommend buying bulk licenses...)
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Re: Doesn't go far enuf
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Re: Doesn't go far enuf
The clue to the seriousness of my intent is in the name of the piece, of course.
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Yup, let's make sure our kids learn very early that if they are in any way creative, someone is going to try to screw them out of it and lock it up forever.
It's like our school systems are trying to become record labels.
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Common.
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Re: Common.
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I think my school primarily told us they owned everything so they could keep work for accreditation purposes without students crying foul (every 2-6 years depending on how well you scored), as any work they kept they typically gave you a 2 week window to pick up after an accreditation cycle (which was problematic because if they decided to keep your thesis work, you could be 5 years out of school and moved across the country and you had 2 weeks to arrange pick up of your best work before it hit a 40 yard dumpster outside).
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Re: Common.
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1. If you are producing work as an employee.
2. The work being produced is commissioned specifically to be used as part of a much larger work such as a forward for written by one author for a book by another or a musical score written specifically for a feature film.
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Who would even want to buy the rights to your elementary school homework? Umm... who cares! We just want to be able to sell off the rights to your school work to some lovely green skins trolls.
What, you mean they're trolls who will sue other kids for violating the copyrights we sell them? Nonsense! That'll never happen, they're only interested in owning the rights to your schoolwork for 'educational' purposes.
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This might have been the reasoning
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Re: This might have been the reasoning
I believe the motivation for usurping student copyrights is that school boards are notorious for grasping at whatever mechanism that gives them control over students. Suppose a student wrote an essay that, heaven forbid, caused a disruption in school and the community at large. What better way to suppress it, in this internet age where duplication is so easy, by claiming copyright infringement everywhere it appeared. Oh, "fair use" what's that? School boards always have more important considerations in protecting the children.
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Re: This might have been the reasoning
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Though there has long been an exception to work made for hire for teachers, there's no real support for it in the statute or the leading case law, and if seriously challenged, I think the exception would fall. So the school board likely can do this for teachers by unilaterally imposing a policy.
But work made for hire will fail against students, since it's based on federal employment law, basically, and it's just too far of a stretch to say that students are employees of their schools. Neither can an assignment occur: the copyright act requires that they be express, signed documents, and a unilateral school policy won't do. They could at most argue for a no exclusive license but it would still be weak IMO.
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How and why is the school justifying this? Its the student producing the work, using their own materials, albeit using certain guidelines, but its not a for-hire situation. The kid isn't doing this for profit, they're doing it to get an education, which is mandated by law.
These are public schools, aren't they? As in, run by the government? I thought the government couldn't hold copyrights over material it produces. I can understand the
letter of the law saying that that applies to staff only, not the students, but still...
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Re:
Only the federal government. And the material is produced by the students, not the government, so that wouldn't apply anyway. The federal government is allowed to OWN copyrights, it just can't directly produce copyrighted works.
"What if the student gets math homework: does the school now own the copyright to 2 + 2 = 4? I thought basic facts weren't copyrightable. "
If there's no copyright, then there's no copyright. I don't think they're doing this for the math homework. But maybe they'd like to reprint that essay a student wrote.
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public funding
Why is it any different in a public school? At least the work created by the teachers.
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Re: public funding
> At least the work created by the teachers.
Because the teachers work for the state and local governments, not the federal government.
The Constitution forbids the federal government from copyrighting its own materials, but that prohibition doesn't apply to the states. In fact, many state constitutions expressly allow for copyright on state government materials.
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Re: Re: public funding
The Constitution does not make this prohibition. Copyright law does.
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Re: Re: public funding
Rather, the copyright act (a federal law) says that works created by the federal government are ineligible for copyright. (17 USC 105 IIRC)
Congress could easily amend the law to also prohibit states from having copyrights initially vested in them, but hasn't bothered. It would be a good idea, though.
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Re: Re: Re: public funding
> prohibit states from having copyrights
> initially vested in them
How could Congress do that? Congress can't selectively decree who can and cannot have copyright protection. If it provides it to anyone, it has to be available to all. The only exception would be itself. It can deny copyright to itself, but not to anyone else.
> Rather, the copyright act (a federal law) says
Yes, I meant the US Code. I don't know why I wrote Constitution
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Re: Re: Re: Re: public funding
Ok, follow along with us slowly here:
(from above) "Rather, the copyright act (a federal law) says that works created by the federal government are ineligible for copyright. (17 USC 105 IIRC)"
Still with us? Ok, now:
Congress makes and/or changes laws.
That was a tough one, I agree. But stay in there:
Congress can modify the copyright act to state that State and local government materials are *also* not eligible for copyright!
Shizbam!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: public funding
> State and local government materials are *also* not
> eligible for copyright!
Take your smug ass and find a law book and read up on Equal Protection then come back and discuss this with the adults.
> Shizbam!
Child.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: public funding
Unless you're claiming that the 5th Amendment equal protection via due process clause requires this, I'll be damned if I see how. And I don't think that equal protection is a good argument here, unless the criteria for who doesn't get a copyright discriminates by the usual suspect classifications (e.g. race, gender).
Being a state or foreign government is probably not going to elevate the standard beyond rational basis, which means the feds would win the day. (Besides, it's only fair, given the 11th Amendment immunity from infringement lawsuits that the states enjoy)
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> protection...
The Equal Protection Clause isn't in the 5th Amendment. It's in the 14th.
> unless the criteria for who doesn't get a copyright discriminates
> by the usual suspect classifications (e.g. race, gender).
The Equal Protection Clause isn't dependent on those statutorily-created classes. It applies to all of society.
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The 14th Amendment equal protection clause only applies to the states by its own words. But there is a federal due process clause in the 5th amendment, and back when there was a companion case to Brown v. Board of Ed. having to do with the Washington DC schools, the Supreme Court found that the 5th Amendment functionally included equal protection at the federal level. (Otherwise they would had to have allowed school discrimination in DC) Since this is a federal issue we're talking about, the 5th Amendment clause is the relevant one.
The Equal Protection Clause isn't dependent on those statutorily-created classes. It applies to all of society.
At this point you might want to read up on how equal protection actually works in the US. The gist is that it is quite strict if it has to do with certain judicially recognized classifications, or elections, but quite deferential to the government in many other cases. Wikipedia has a decent article.
Plus, state and foreign governments are not quite members of society in the ways that actual human beings are. In fact, given that the text refers explicitly to "persons," governments may not be eligible for it at all. I don't recall any cases addressing this issue and I'm too lazy to research it, but if anyone has anything, it would be interesting to see.
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What we're left with is corporate-government ownership of culture, which of course works more often than not against the public, just as it was designed to.
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This is a public school board, right? Legally, they cannot deny a student an education, right?
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But the rules vary from state to state, and possibly from school district to school district, so YMMV.
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I'm asking because I wonder if this is some attempt at trying claim ownership of someone's future success. Let's say a kid does a paper on cancer and then 20 years later develops a cure for cancer. Would this school then try to claim that since they owned the copyright/patent/trademark over that person's work years prior, then the school should have ownership of that cure.
This isn't much different from colleges that use goverment funding (read: tax payer dollars) for research but then get to keep ownership of the results.
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Student Trolls
Ms Jones, if I do my homework it is protected by copyright and I cannot allow it to be seen without a "grading" fee.
On the other hand, if I'm assured an A grade prior to completion of my homework then I may waive that fee...
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Re: Student Trolls
Unfortunately the school is between a rock and a hard place here because of the stupidity of copyright law. You see if they don't own the copyright then all kinds of things that schools routinely do become illegal.
This would include making photcopies, displaying work in public etc.
Most sensible places simply require a non-exclusive licence that allows them to do the necessary things - but the whole ridiculous thing is just another example of the sstupidity of copyright law.
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Re: Re: Student Trolls
If a student objects to a work being hung on a wall, they should notify the teacher and it should not be displayed.
No license is needed to grade a paper. If somehow a teacher really really needed to do something with a work to do their job as a teacher, that would almost certainly be covered by fair use. The educational purpose and the noncommercial nature of the work would be so heavily in favor of fair use that it would be a slam dunk unless the teacher was doing something they obviously shouldn't be doing, like selling compilations of student essays without permission.
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Re: Re: Student Trolls
I suspect this is the case for the vast majority of non-stupid schools in the US.
So excusing this idiotic behaviour as a necessary evil is just lazy reasoning on your part.
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Unenforceable
"Works created by employees and/or students specifically for use by the Prince George’s County Public Schools or a specific school or department within PGCPS, are properties of the Board of Education even if created on the employee’s or student’s time and with the use of their materials"
"Further, works created during school/work hours, with the use of school system materials, and within the scope of an employee’s position or student’s classroom work assignment(s) are the properties of the Board of Education."
One little problem. You don't get copyright just by saying you get copyright. They might as well make a policy that any money in a student's pockets belongs to the school board. If they tried to enforce this on a student, they'd lose badly in court.
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Re: Unenforceable
I have seen this language in a number of work-related contracts over the years, and each time I've objected to it. Each time it was removed.
I wouldn't agree to these terms for employment, period. I certainly wouldn't agree to them for attending school.
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Re: Re: Unenforceable
Student files with copyright office.
Student turns homework in.
School recognizes brilliance of work (skeptical about this part).
School claims copyright under this ruling.
School widely broadcasts the work, intimating their quality of education.
Student sues School for infringement + gajillion mega bucks.
School goes broke, rest of students go without education.
Student retires as a junior in high school.
Student winds up in jail after doing hard core video gaming for ten years and....
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Ownership has limitations.
The words we write are owned by the organization we write them during any type of association? But yet the property (i.e. land, house, invention) we "own" is only ours by the grant of ownership (i.e. patent) provided by the government.
This makes zero sense.
Wow. The words we have uttered are at only the most basic (i.e. word order) creative works. Yes if someone would like to use the words in the exact placement that your did and you were the first to every say/write those words you should get at the bare minimum a nod. But what is the worth of that?
The worth is in the idea behind the words. If I tell you that "Life is a sum of ideas and your effort to execute those ideas to fruition" I think that is creative but not worth much. Why? Because it took little effort to create.
But if I took the time to explain what the effort might be and then give you step by step instructions then that would be worth a lot more.
Copyright as it stands assumes a value that is not verifiable or truly substantiated.
So lets work towards a true value.
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What students produce
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Only works produced by *employees* of the federal government are free from copyright under the law. Students are not employees of the federal government.
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Nonsense
This is no different than if the school had sent a note home with the kids saying that parents are now required to sign over title to their car to the school and if they don't their kid will be kicked out of school. That wouldn't fly for one second and neither will this.
> If a student creates something, it is
> covered by copyright, though most people
> never really consider or care about that.
Sure, if it's something like a math assignment. No one will ever use a set of algebra problems for anything other than turning it in the next day and getting a grade. But something like student-written a poem or a short story for a literature class? Yes, those have independent value beyond their worth as a class assignment. One can easily see a scenario where a talented kid writes a short story for class and could also enter it into a writing competition outside the school where the story will have commercial value. And one can also see how the school could then step in and claim whatever prize money or publishing fee results because they own the copyright. It's crap and they'll be lucky to survive summary judgment from the first person who sues them over it.
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Good luck making this work
The obvious counter would be to offer to sign a license for the school system to use the work under a specific set of terms and conditions. I don't think the school system would be happy with the terms and conditions I would offer them. There would be a penalty clause for violation of the contract that would include termination with cause of the employee who violated the license. Commercial use would be prohibited. If the contract was violated through commercial use, payment would be due immediately to the student at several times the total revenue generated even if the individual student's work was only a part of a larger compilation. Publication would be prohibited as well. It wouldn't be pretty.
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Yup, it's illegal
"(e) Involuntary Transfer.— When an individual author’s ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, has not previously been transferred voluntarily by that individual author, no action by any governmental body or other official or organization purporting to seize, expropriate, transfer, or exercise rights of ownership with respect to the copyright, or any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, shall be given effect under this title, except as provided under title 11."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/201
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Re: Yup, it's illegal
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Re: Re: Yup, it's illegal
School is mandatory. It is not a "voluntary transfer" if you are given the choice of signing or being arrested for truancy. And a student would not legally be able to sign a contract anyway.
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Re: Re: Re: Yup, it's illegal
> sign a contract anyway.
Why doesn't everyone keep saying this? It's not true at all.
Contracts signed by minors are perfectly legal, they're just voidable at the discretion of the minor or his/her parents.
Bottom line, it's not financially smart to contract with a minor, but there's nothing that prohibits it or makes the contract de facto illegal.
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And here's the loophole
If I were a student in the district, every piece of homework I turned in would come with a copyright notice and a license agreement. The following notice would be there:
"This work was created outside of school hours and therefor is not subject to the Prince George’s County Public Schools copyright assignment policy."
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Re: And here's the loophole
"Works created by employees and/or students specifically for use by the Prince George’s County Public Schools or a specific school or department within PGCPS, are properties of the Board of Education even if created on the employee’s or student’s time and with the use of their materials."
Instead, just use the part of copyright law that prohibits the government from involuntarily taking your work.
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> copyright its work, is it possible that
> a state or local government agency that
> derives a significant portion of its
> funding from the Federal government could
> also be bound by the same provisions?
No.
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Mrs. Johnson,
I'm aware the essay I turned in for this assignment was substandard, but current copyright ownership issues make it impossible for me to relinquish my best effort and still reserve the right to reuse or rework said essay professionally later in life. Though I cannot show you the genuine essay lest I disadvantage myself financially or creatively, please take my word for it that I completed the assignment with A+ quality and adjust my grade accordingly.
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Funny
If anything this will be stomped out very quickly when the politicians realise they will be directly impacted by this.
I for one would not sign anything like this and if they forced me to by threatening to expel me then yes I could sign it, but it would be under duress and that copyright would not hold up in a court of law. Apart from anything kids cannot sign their rights away over any work they do, ever.
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Copyrights In School
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Never let school interfere with education...
When you wonder why we have so many energy and technological crises and no one is doing anything about it, this is why.
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Broadcasting
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