US And Europe Move On To TAFTA: Yet Another Chance To Push Through ACTA/SOPA Style IP Maximalism

from the it-never-ends dept

Fri, Feb 8th 2013 8:40am — Mike Masnick

ACTA and SOPA may have flopped, but minor setbacks like that won't stop the onslaught of abuses from the entertainment and pharmaceutical industries looking to use the international treaty process to try to pressure everyone to keep ratcheting up protectionist laws concerning copyright, patents and trademarks. Obviously, we've been talking about the still worrisome TPP agreement involving a bunch of Pacific Rim countries, but it's not stopping there. Back in October, we warned that the US and EU were preparing a new trade agreement as well, and the preliminary plans noted that it would include a "high level of intellectual property protection, including enforcement."

More details are starting to come out as the main EU negotiator for ACTA, Karel de Gucht, came to DC to see about getting things kicked off, on an agreement that's being called TAFTA -- the Trans Atlantic "Free Trade" Agreement. Of course, instead of recognizing the lessons from previous failed efforts to push for broken maximalist policies, it appears that the plan is to try, try again. Some are already saying that this is "the opportunity to try to set the gold standard" in copyright, patent and trademark protection. The goal, as with ACTA and TPP is to ratchet up the laws, and then put tons of pressure on China and India to "respect" those laws. To put it mildly: this is stupid. Both of those countries recognize how protectionism works. We've already seen that China is becoming exceptionally good at using patent laws to basically punish foreign companies, while helping domestic Chinese companies. It seems downright idiotic to provide them with even more tools to do so.

Of course, the real questions are why do we keep letting our governments negotiate these kinds of deals, and why do we let them do so in secret?

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Filed Under: acta, copyright, europe, free trade agreements, international agreements, ip, sopa, tafta, treaties, us

63 Comments

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Ninja (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 8:26am

I'm starting to see a pattern here. The US executive is trying to enact domestic laws by pushing them via trade agreements...

Executive pushes for international agreements then comes back to the Congress/Senate and say "See? We are bound by those agreements, we must adjust our domestic laws to fit them as every other nation will do it". Never thought of it this way. Scary.
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Designerfx (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 8:46am

Re:
What's even worse, is they've been called out for doing exactly that. Yet they're doing it anyway. That part is seriously impressive in just how stubborn it is.
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Kevin H (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 8:47am

This crap is like playing a never ending game of whack-a-mole. We do what we can to get one squashed and then suddenly some NEW piece of legislation is introduced that just roles the what we just defeated into a new box with a pretty little bow on top.

My pitchfork is in need of servicing and my torch is beginning to burn out. I cannot even fathom a guess at the number of calls and letters I have written on various pieces of legislation.

Not to mention I am fairly certain that its all part of their plan to wear us down to this point until we simply quit fighting.
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Lurk-a-lot (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:00am

Lately, every time I see the words 'free trade' written down, I sick-up just a little.

Just once I'd like to hear that one of these free trade agreements actually include something about free trade.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go brush my teeth...
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:16am

This is nothing more than imperialism by trade treaty, where only the US gains from the treaty, including a reason to turn its own citizens into serfs for the barons of industry. The barons will have won when everybody else is paid third world wages.
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ss, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:17am

Re:
I'm actually starting to look forward to each swing at this. With each attempt the public outcry *seems* to grow a tiny bit wider and just a tiny bit louder.

I'm still looking forward to a return to the premise of science and useful arts which somehow got mangled into profit and old farts.
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:22am

Re:
This is what I've been saying for years now. This will continue, just like a game of whack-a-mole, until we stop playing whack-a-mole. And there are two ways to stop playing. We can give up and quit fighting, or we can push back and accomplish something meaningful. What we need to do is find a way to get our own copyright legislation sponsored and placed before Congress.

To change analogies a little, when a weed grows in your garden, cutting off the visible part does no good. Unless you pull it up by the root, it will grow back, again and again. And the root of this neverending parade of copyright abuse proposals is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Everything that's evil and offensive in SOPA and ACTA and the TPP already exists in the DMCA, just at a smaller scale. And until we pull up the root and kill it, the weeds will keep growing back.

If we're going to accomplish anything meaningful, the first thing to be done is to repeal and reverse the DMCA. No more DMCA takedowns on accusation alone with no evidence and no due process. No more legal protection for hacking other people's computers and calling it DRM. And no more foundation upon which to build greater abuses in the future.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:23am

OMG the headline said ACTA and SOPA! Quick, fire up the cat signal! We need the brain-dead masses to get their collective knickers in a bunch. Rabble rabble!
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arcan, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:23am

does copyright even fit into free trade? because i can't think of a way it does.
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arcan, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:24am

Re: Re:
the thing is they only have to win once, we have to win every time. talk about fighting an avalanche with a firehose...
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Zakida Paul (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:27am

It's ironic how a treaty with 'free trade' in the title can be so protectionist.

Protectionism works against free trade.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:29am

"The goal, as with ACTA and TPP is to ratchet up the laws, and then put tons of pressure on China and India to "respect" those laws."

This, quite simply, won't work.

China already manufactures the vast majority of electronic devices for the entire world. How are you going to pressure the guy that builds your everything? Ah, maybe you'll use your mighty industrial infrastructure. Oh wait, your mighty industrial infrastructure was exported to China too. Because the labour is cheaper and the laws are laxer.

Face it, China has the world by the balls, and a toothless piece of paper won't change anything until people actually start moving away from them.
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Beta (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:34am

motivation
"Of course, the real questions are why do we keep letting our governments negotiate these kinds of deals, and why do we let them do so in secret?"

A related question: How many of the backers of ACTA/SOPA did we actually vote out of office?
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jjmsan, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:38am

This agreement would be a gold standard. Those who have the money get the gold.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:41am

Reminds me a Russian slang word TUFTA.... meanig Bullshit...
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:57am

Re: Re:
I would argue that the root cause is the USTR and how it is set up. Remove USTR by delegating its responsibilities to other government bodies and you will see a far less insane approach. (insanity: Doing the same thing all over thinking that it will lead to a different result!)
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 9:59am

Re:
Exactly. As stated, not only would it not work against China, they'd actually be able to use it against the US.

I suppose you could say the real goal is to ratchet up their own laws, but US law enforcement hardly needs legal justification to act.

Perhaps the people who wrote ACTA/TPP/etc. are chuffed that the public rose up against them, and are determined to prove they aren't beholden to the proletariat? There's doubtless some irrational reason behind their irrational behavior...
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re:
Unless we do as Mason is suggesting. If we can work to get meaningful reform in place, we too would only have to win once. (To the extent that's ever true for anything, anyhow).
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:06am

Re:
What, that's it? Ad hominem attacks, petty namecalling? Where's the elaborate deconstruction, the disillusioning rebuttal?
I want my viewpoint to be challenged, not reinforced! If you're going to take the time to go to this site, skim headlines, and post disparaging remarks, put some freakin' effort into it!
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:07am

Re: motivation
We don't get to vote major corporations out of office.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:11am

Re: Re:
and that's why Lawrence Lessig started Rootstrikers.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:13am

Re: motivation
Lamar Smith is still there.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:14am

Re: motivation
My own senator Roy Blunt backed it until the last minute. He's still in office.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:17am

Re: Re:
Trolls these days... In the good old days we had real trolls and real blasts of lame nerd-rage.

Oh how I wish we had OotB back! That guy delivered quality incoherent rage soaped in insanity.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:29am

Re:
It is called neomercantilism. China and east asia are known for a policy based around these principles. To combat it, the conservative parties in the western countries (US democrats included!) have made their own strain of neo-mercantilism where the traded goods are IPR and the tarriffs are licenses. Conservatives call it free trade, but in reality it is corporate mercantilism.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:31am

Re:
Exactly. Here are Obama and Biden doing what they've done all through their terms in office: paying back their sponsors. Those of you who voted for Obama had plenty of warning from past experience. This is what you get in return.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 10:40am

Re:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.

Yes, the internet no longer being a lawless Wild West. Everyone knew it was inevitable, but now we're subject to daily whining about it here on Techdirt.

And if you reply to this, you should mention that you've admitted to being a pirate.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 11:06am

Re: Re:
I doubt Mitt would have been better (maybe worse too...)
the only good part would have been he would be a first term president so he would have to move under cover to try for a second....

Need a none of the above vote
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DannyB (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 11:33am

Re:
Pirate Mike just hates it when freedom is threatened, due process is eliminated, injustice is done upon mere accusation, with no recourse, public money is spent on behalf of an extremely wealthy private industry, and it's all done in secret.
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: Re:
Would you really? Or would you just see the other government bodies picking up the insanity along with the delegation?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 11:42am

Re:
@ #4

would be a change to NOT include something that was going to benefit the US entertainment industries without screwing the people over at the same time, just to stop those industries from joining the world in the digital age
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 12:11pm

Everybody's got one.
The content industry's whack-a-mole is piracy.

The Internet's whack-a-mole is overreaching copyright trade agreements like SOPA/PIPA/TPP et al.

Everybody's got a whack-a-mole I guess...
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 12:53pm

Re:
"I'm starting to see a pattern here. The US executive is trying to enact domestic laws by pushing them via trade agreements...

Executive pushes for international agreements then comes back to the Congress/Senate and say "See? We are bound by those agreements, we must adjust our domestic laws to fit them as every other nation will do it". Never thought of it this way. Scary."

Took you that long to figure it out? That's how we got the DCMA.

International trade agreements are a wonderful way for industries to protect their pet laws from dreadful diseases like that nasty vox populi that killed SOPA.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re:
What's even worse, is they've been called out for doing exactly that. Yet they're doing it anyway. That part is seriously impressive in just how stubborn it is.

Why should they care about being called out about it? Anyone who could stop them is already on their payroll.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re:
Most people would take a Wild West over Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia any day, and piracy has nothing to do with that.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 1:06pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yea, this. Falling into the "The major X party is better than the Y party in the US!" trap is what gets us to where we are.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re:
How about just hitting Report on trolls like you, does that make me a pirate?
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Doug Webb, 8 Feb 2013 @ 1:16pm

TAFTA
Why do our governments keep doing this? Because the entertainment industry is spending hundreds of millions of dollars and euros on campaign contributions to all political parties. Even opposition parties tow the entertainment industry line. Corporate campaign donations are an arrow in the heart of democracy. If you can't vote, why can you donate to a politician and potentially change the political landscape?
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 1:20pm

Re: Re:
The internet is not, and never has been, a lawless place. Incidentally, neither was the "wild west".
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 1:26pm

Re: Everybody's got one.
The difference is that the "content industry"'s whack-a-mole is unnecessary. The piracy problems they have can be easily dealt with without causing widespread societal damage.

The internet's whack-a-mole is trying to prevent the widespread societal damage being caused by the "content industry"'s whack-a-mole game.

In other words, the "content industry" is engaging in a completely optional and self-proclaimed war. The internet is trying to prevent it (and everyone else) from being collateral damage in that madness.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
"I doubt Mitt would have been better..."

How do you know? The point is that Obama was a known factor. Those who voted for him also voted for his existing policies, including his policies on copyright.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: Re:
100% incorrect on both counts. Nice job!
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re:
Ninja has admitted on this blog that he's a serial infringer.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:44pm

Re:
Nah, I just replace the words of any titled agreement with its polar opposite. And it's usually correct.

For example: "free-trade" becomes "mercantilist bullshit".
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:49pm

Re: Re:
....public money is spent on behalf of an extremely wealthy private industry.....

The problem is that you don't want them to do it privately either.
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: Everybody's got one.
Except that when you take a step back and look at things from Hollywood et al's perspective, this whack-a-mole is completely necessary because it threatens their business model by causing a change of social norms. However, in the bigger picture, their stance is counterproductive and outdated when compared to the 21st century business models that are popping up and proving successful.

And yeah, the Internet's war is a war of self-defense (more or less).
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 3:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wrong on both counts? How so? First, in what sense do existing laws not apply to the internet?

Second, there is a great deal of respected historical research on this topic, and it's pretty well established that with the exception of a literally one or two places, the "lawless wild west" in the sense most people think of it (thanks to TV and movies) never actually existed. By all measures (crime rates, etc.), the "wild west" was about as lawless as the modern west is.
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gorehound (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 3:05pm

More Asshole Moves from Corrupted Politicians and MAFIAA Schmucks.
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Hephaestus (profile), 8 Feb 2013 @ 3:11pm

The point is actually moot anyway. By the time these treaties are enacted, we will have the ability to 3D print any chemical imaginable, from a small stock of raw materials. Doing away with any chance any resulting pharma laws have any chance of succeeding.

Data sticks in 10-12 years will be in the quad (q-byte) range, making the distribution of all music and video from the past a simple thing. Bit torrent is implementing a distributed private network system that you need to be invited into. Add encryption on top of that and you have private interlinked darknets galore. All this leads to the obvious conclusion that any RIAA or MPAA based laws will be ineffectual and impossible to enforce.

All in all, it doesn't matter if they get one, or even all of these treaties enacted. Advances in technology will cause them to fail horribly.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2013 @ 1:14am

Re:
There is an excellent expression for this: "policy laundering". Please look it up!
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The Real Michael, 9 Feb 2013 @ 5:11am

Re:
Perhaps part of the reason for the continual attempts to push through draconian bills/treaties is to tire the public out from all the fighting, then they'll attempt to come to a "compromise" where they only get 90% of what was originally proposed.
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bikey, 9 Feb 2013 @ 7:05am

I hope the Europeans are getting a lot of money for this. Politicians usually sell themselves sooooo cheaply.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2013 @ 7:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Shh. Leave the troll alone. Facts that don't support his reality are unwelcome.

But yes, it is true. The internet never has been a lawless "Wild West" and the Wild West itself wasn't a "lawless" place.

Part of the reason, and I've researched this before, is that the Wild West era took place immediately after the Civil War. So what you had were vast numbers of people who had seen the most vicious war fought within this country ever, all of whom survived and quite readily knew how to take care of themselves and survive. Meaning, even if law enforcement couldn't solve a case or catch a criminal, you can be damn sure the average joe could, and as such crime became much riskier due to the fact that the person you were committing a crime against literally was in no mood for your bullshit and wasn't going to stand idly by and let you get away with it. In point of fact, if anything, the Wild West was actually a much more civilized time for this very reason. People respected the rule of law, and with the exception of a handful of individuals and towns, the majority of the Wild West was actually a decent place to live, with people helping one another as they could and prospects in general looking good (at least when put in perspective of "Holy shit! We just fought a war amongst ourselves!).
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Rob, 9 Feb 2013 @ 6:51pm

Re:
I think that is the point. The Party plans to beat all opposition into absolute submission. They will not stop, so we must not stop, either.
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heythere (profile), 9 Feb 2013 @ 7:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
In a world this rotten, who's there to rat to?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2013 @ 7:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
You say that like he was the only other person that ran and before you say 'well he was the only other person who had a chance of winning' please realize that thinking that is a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2013 @ 7:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
He, let's just for a minute pretend the wild west was exactly like it was in the movies though. How is rampant copyright infringement anything at all like gunfights at the ok coral? I mean these stories are about murder in the fucking streets and he's comparing rampant copyright infringement to that? It's fucking bonkers.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2013 @ 10:22am

They will just keep changing the names of the agreements.
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charliebrown (profile), 10 Feb 2013 @ 11:32am

Re: Re:
"Proof" that the DMCA was no good is the fact that the first two words of it's name are just buzzwords that were big at the time, especially "Millenium"!
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Jonathan, 10 Feb 2013 @ 5:07pm

Re:
I think I agree with your idea of the end-game. It's telling that NGOs are merely content with resisting these infringements rather than pushing back, hard. There's very little citizen force behind *gaining* ground against power consolidation, and much elite pushback when any event that might have such an effect comes about.

I still believe that the general strike is among the few effective weapons. It's very well understood and it works well enough that it's met with paramilitary force every time it's tried.
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Jonathan, 10 Feb 2013 @ 5:27pm

Re:
Ownership is a cultural/social postulate. Economics is merely a mathematical attempt at elaboration of cultural/social first principles.

I think it's fairly unlikely that China would subscribe to strong scarce-IP culture, unless there were something else the rest of the world might have to offer China, that China doesn't already have, on China's own terms. Something on the order of the Louisiana Purchase.

But, the bottom line raison d'etre of modern economics, protecting the purchasing power of incumbent creditors as informed by the "3% annual growth, forever" evangelists, would be met even if only the smaller but important economies (Australia, Japan, Korea, Egypt, Norway) joined up in strong scarce-IP culture.
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Jonathan, 10 Feb 2013 @ 5:30pm

Re: Re: Re:
UN-delegating, actually. Congress has always had the right and duty to approve treaties, including trade treaties. I believe it was the PRO-IP Act that created the USTR and chartered it with promoting IP maximalism.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2013 @ 6:39am

De Gucht
As a Belgian, I apologise for De Gucht. He's a disgrace.
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