Bus Company Threatens Redditor With Lawsuit, Meets Ken White, Runs Away

Legal Issues

from the smart-move dept

Thu, May 2nd 2013 10:59am — Timothy Geigner

Another day, another case of a business attempting to stifle online criticism via threat of lawsuit, amirite? We've seen it again and again. Companies ignorant of the terrifying Streisand Effect go after critics and, normally, the only warm and fuzzy feeling we can take away from it is knowing that these abusers are more hated as a result of their threats than they were before. But not today, friends. Today's story ends hilariously well.

It all starts with an Illinois bus company called Suburban Express that operates lines from Chicago to several colleges in and out of the state. Its online reputation is, to say the least, poor.

For example, the company's ticket policy includes a "ticket fraud" clause that hits riders who hand the wrong ticket to a driver with a $100 fine, charged to the credit card used to purchase their ticket. "In the event that ticket is used to obtain transportation on another day or at another time," the company's policy statement reads, "or to or from a Chicago area stop other than printed on your ticket, you will be charged full fare for the trip you actually rode PLUS $100 penalty. You will also be permanently banned." The company also has a history of suing passengers for violating its terms and conditions—it has filed 125 tort and contract damage lawsuits against passengers this year alone, according to a report from a student newspaper.

So, we're dealing with a company that enjoys suing its own customers after slapping their wallets around with insane fines that seem designed less to encourage good behavior than to simply extract more money out of people. Well, if Suburban Express is happy to sue its own customers, you can guess just how aggressive they like to behave with the internet upon which some of these customers express their displeasure. Unfortunately, when that displeasure is aimed at one of the company's drivers who told an exchange student, "If you don't understand English, you don't belong at the University of Illinois or any 'American' University," then you're going to raise the ire of roughly everyone. It was a witness to that event, Jeremy Leval, who took to Facebook to describe the incident. Guess what his prize for outing racism was...

Four days later, Leval told the Daily Illini, University of Illinois' student newspaper, about the incident. He received an e-mail from the company that said he was being fined $500 for "liquidated damages" and was permanently banned. In a statement on the company's website, company owner [Dennis] Toeppen threatened to sue Leval, saying, "The attorneys for Suburban Express are reviewing this incident with a view towards filing the appropriate legal action against this meddlesome MBA student."

Toeppen wasn't done there, either. He took to Reddit to push back on on Leval's story, indicating that some undescribed person had already apologized for the incident (because that makes it all better?). Unfortunately for him, his company is still being lambasted for its behavior on subreddits for the University of Illinois, where some are also claiming that Suburban Express employees are posting messages accusing reddit users of being virgins and chronic masturbators. Should you think that the idea of a business owner doing all this is a bit far-fetched, it's instructive to note the kind of slimeball we're talking about.

Toeppen is no stranger to legal action over Internet controversy. In the late 1990s, he was a self-confessed cybersquatter, registering over 200 domain names and asking for payment by trademark holders in exchange for them—including Panavision.com, for which he demanded $13,000. That led to the 1998 case Panavision International L.P. v. Toeppen (which Toeppen lost) and in part to the AntiCybersquatting Consumer Protection Act of 1999.

"It was clear to me at the time that domain names were valuable, undeveloped virtual real estate," he wrote on his personal home page. "There was absolutely no statutory or case law regarding trademarks in the context of Internet domain names at the time. It seemed to be an excellent opportunity to do the virtual equivalent of buying up property around a factory—eventually the factory owner would realize that he needed the scarce resource which I possessed."

Now, after a bunch of the insulting messages on reddit were deleted by the moderator, Murph Finnicum, Toeppen's attorney threatened to sue him for libel and over deleting the messages purportedly left by Suburban Express employees. James Long, the attorney, demanded "corrective action" immediately due to the damage the company had suffered by having their own posts deleted, and indicated that legal action against him had been authorized by the company.

But, wait, I can already hear you saying: but you promised us this story had a happy ending! Well, it does, courtesy of Ken "Popehat" White.

The legal threat against Finnicum quickly drew promises of support from others on reddit—including Ken White, the lawyer behind the legal blog Popehat. White sent an e-mail to Long, which he also posted to reddit: "I do not represent any party (though I have offered to connect the recipient of your threat with pro bono counsel). However, I am considering writing a post about the matter."

"Would you be willing to answer some questions about your threat?" White continued. "I'm particularly interested in discussing the factual basis for your assertions, how you reconcile your position with Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, and your evaluation of risks in light of the Streisand Effect."

The result? A letter from attorney James Long to Finnicum:

"I will confess that I have very limited understanding of Reddit," he wrote, "and your response regarding the thread being moderated by several different individuals was instructive and was confirmed by individuals with much more knowledge of Reddit than I possess. At this time Suburban Express is of the opinion that it is best for the company and all individuals involved with this issue for Suburban Express to move forward with its mission to provide safe, courteous and efficient service to its current and future customers."

They ran away as fast as they could. I'm not sure if they are going to continue legal action against Laval, but if they actually read into the Streisand Effect when Ken White mentioned it, then they already know that they really, really shouldn't.

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Filed Under: chicago, ken white, streisand effect
Companies: suburban express

33 Comments

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Akari Mizunashi (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 9:38am

I was hoping I was going to see a video of a lawyer, dressed to the nines, knocking on the door of Ken White, only to be looking up at a towering individual's whose exhaling breath can shatter a collarbone, then run away.

But this was good too.
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silverscarcat (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 9:56am

Re:
That's exactly what I was thinking too.
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Rikuo (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 11:16am

Is Ken White the Batman of the legal world? Ya know, he just turns up, goes "I'm Ken White/Batman" and that's all that's needed for the cowardly and corrupt to shake in their boots and stop their wicked ways.
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out_of_the_blue, 2 May 2013 @ 11:18am

Durka, durka, alah mohammad jihad.
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CSMcDonald (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 11:22am

Follow up on Ars
The company updated their Terms of Service and have said they will be dropping all of their current lawsuits:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/non-stop-to-schadenfreude-suburban-express-u-t urn-on-reddit-lawsuit/

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-05-01/bus-lawsuits-dismissed-f ord-county.html
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 11:33am

Re:
I just had a moment where I envisioned him talking to a witness on the stand....

Ken: So you say you saw the defendant walking into the grocery store...
Witness: Yes, I saw him holding a gun and walking into the store at the time of the robbery
Ken: Are you sure this is the man you saw
Witness: I swear to GOD!
Ken: SWEAR TO ME!!!
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Zos (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 11:39am

My money's on someone there googling streisand effect and/or talking to a real lawyer.
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Rikuo (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 11:41am

Re: Re:
I envisioned it more as that quick scene from the start of The Dark Knight, where a criminal is about to deal drugs with some dude in his car, but stops when he notices the Bat Signal. I redid that scene in my head as the guy in the car being the Redditor, the guy threatening him being the head of the bus company and the signal being the PopeHat Signal (tm)
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Anonymous Coward, 2 May 2013 @ 11:57am

Re: Follow up on Ars
Wow, this is a sunshine and puppy dogs day...
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Rikuo (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re: Follow up on Ars
Not where I am (judging by cloud cover and the amount of shit the dog has left on the ground I can see outside my window)
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TheLastCzarnian (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:16pm

English in the US
Why would anyone "HAVE" to speak English in the US? We don't have an official language. You may want to, but you don't have to.
Which is also why I don't understand the requirement to learn English for naturalization.
Someone either needs to make it the official language, or just shut up about it.
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GMacGuffin (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:22pm

Thank you Mr. Toeppen
I thought I recognized the name at the outset ... Yup, he's the guy who registered stetson.com and an parked a picture of his dog "Stetson" there. Impetus for the cybersquatting act.

He was a big deal in law school 1999. We owe him a debt of gratitude in sort of the same way we owe the rapist Mr. Miranda.
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Ninja (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:28pm

Re:
No! I hereby name Ken White POPEHAT NORRIS.
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Ninja (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:31pm

Re:
I pictured Kin Jong un (or whatever u call the North Korean dictator) seeing Chuck Norris in his binoculars and sayin' "oh shit".
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Anonymous Coward, 2 May 2013 @ 12:34pm

Mr. Popehat is aggressively pursuing and acquiring the skills he will need someday, is kind of impressive how many cases he handles, this is hard work and no matter in which side you are on those issues people should take notice of that little fact, he is not a slob, is not a schmuck and it is becoming very well versed on what he does.

Not to mention that he is transforming his name in a household name, no small task.

Different from Joe here which only we know him to well LoL
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John Fenderson (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 12:38pm

Re: English in the US
Well, yes, there's no official language for the US, but English is the defacto official language and being able to speak it is a Very Good Idea.

That said, 99% of the time when people are arguing that you should have to speak English in the US, they are just trying to express their racism in a way that doesn't scream "racism".
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Anonymous Coward, 2 May 2013 @ 12:39pm

Re:
All I could think of when I read your post was Stelio Kontos.
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DavyD, 2 May 2013 @ 1:11pm

From the site front page --

"Virtually all of our customers are college students. No riff-raff!"

Amazing, are these guys for real?
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Anonymous Coward, 2 May 2013 @ 1:17pm

You cut off the quote! It should read:

In a statement on the company's website, company owner [Dennis] Toeppen threatened to sue Leval, saying, "The attorneys for Suburban Express are reviewing this incident with a view towards filing the appropriate legal action against this meddlesome MBA student, and his little dog too."
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gyffes, 2 May 2013 @ 1:49pm

"And we would've gotten away with it, too,
if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"

Fixed that for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 May 2013 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re: Re:
Brilliant!
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tqk (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: English in the US
That said, 99% of the time when people are arguing that you should have to speak English in the US, they are just trying to express their racism in a way that doesn't scream "racism".

I guess I'm a one-percenter then. If I emigrated to China, I'd learn Chinese. I expect those moving in the opposite direction to be just as considerate. There's nothing racist about it. If you can't speak English, Spanish, or French in North America, you can't even talk to 911 and be understood.
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 5:17pm

Re:
America! Fuck yeah! Idiots and lawsuits is a great combination!

America! Fuck yeah! Trolls on these blogs here, are fucking insane, yeah!
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Ken, 2 May 2013 @ 7:39pm

That's a very kind title that I would show to my father if he could understand anything whatsoever going on here.

But most of the credit should go to the people writing at the Daily Illini, Murph and the others on Reddit, and the people who made the story go viral. I just sort of showed up late, wrote a mildly snide letter, and watched the already inevitable happen.

Also I'm not like Batman. Batman is awesome. At best I'm, like, Aquaman.
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Matthew Cline (profile), 2 May 2013 @ 10:54pm

Re:
Also I'm not like Batman. Batman is awesome. At best I'm, like, Aquaman.
Don't screw with Aqua Man, dude. He'll fuck your shit up.
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Forest_GS (profile), 3 May 2013 @ 5:31am

"If you don't understand English, you don't belong at the University of Illinois or any 'American' University,"

I kinda agree with that, but I'm 100% OK with said person as long as said person is at the very least making effort in learning the language.
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Mott the Hoople, 3 May 2013 @ 6:58am

Re: Re: English in the US
So Mexico is full of racists.
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Mason Wheeler, 3 May 2013 @ 10:48am

Re: Re: Re: English in the US
Precisely. Racism, as such, is a non-issue in the US these days. Far worse is racism-ism: people cynically using the specter of racism for political advantage. (It's not that different from the terrorism-ism that Techdirt is always calling politicians out on.)

There are plenty of people of all races who speak good English. There are plenty of white people who don't speak English. No one thinks there's anything wrong with that.

But when people come to an English-speaking country with neither the ability to speak English nor the forethought to provide for their linguistic needs in some way, (such as bringing along a friend who can interpret,) a lot of people think there's something wrong with that, no matter what race the person in question is. And I don't think there's anything wrong with them thinking that.
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John Fenderson (profile), 3 May 2013 @ 11:05am

Re: Re: Re: English in the US
You're talking about something different. Learning the most commonly used language is an excellent idea, as I said. 'm talking about people who equate speaking English with having the rights of a US citizen.
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Zos (profile), 3 May 2013 @ 4:25pm

Re: Re: Re: English in the US
actually yes, but they're mostly racist against latin americans from further south, and probably wasn't what you meant.
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Bergman (profile), 4 May 2013 @ 3:32pm

Re:
Well, he certainly is associated with oddly pointy headgear...
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Obsi, 5 May 2013 @ 3:34pm

Re: Re:
Don't forget -- Aquaman can control any aquatic creature. Cthulu is an aquatic creature.
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Amy F (profile), 17 May 2013 @ 6:51pm

there is a new web page about part of this
suburban express website now has a page about jeremy leval. it is at

http://www.suburbanexpress.com/jeremyleval/

i especially like the linked article that jeremy wrote. but i'm not clear on something. in the article, he's boasting about the launch (in 8/2012). yet in the daily illini article, he says something like, oh, that, i was just kidding and never intended to *actually* launch it. so i don't really understand. is it a real business or not?
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