Homeland Security's ICE Group Cuts Off Dwolla Bitcoin Transfers
from the no-explanation dept
Update: The DHS has released a copy of the warrant, which claims probable cause to believe that Mt. Gox is engaging in money transmitting without a license.
We've discussed in the past how the government seems very skeptical of Bitcoin, and now it may be doing something about it. As a whole bunch of you have sent in, ICE (Immigrations and Customs Enforcement), a division of Homeland Security -- best known around here for its cowboy attitude towards censoring websites with no basis -- has cut off Dwolla transfers to Mt. Gox, the biggest Bitcoin exchange, preventing Dwolla from processing any Bitcoin transfers. According to Declan McCullagh at News.com:The U.S. Department of Homeland Security confirmed it has initiated legal action that prompted the Dwolla payment service to stop processing bitcoin transactions.Chris Coyne, from Ok Cupid, posted a screenshot of an email from Dwolla claiming that ICE had "seized" the account of Mt. Gox:
Nicole Navas, a spokesperson for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, confirmed the legal action to CNET this afternoon.
MtGox has read on the Internet that the United States Department of Homeland Security had a court order and/or warrant issued from the United States District Court in Maryland which it served upon the Dwolla mobile payment service with respect to accounts used for trading with MtGox. We take this information seriously. However, as of this time we have not been provided with a copy of the court order and/or warrant, and do not know its scope and/or the reasons for its issuance. MtGox is investigating and will provide further reports when additional information becomes known.I would imagine there will be a lot more to this story, but for the moment details are scarce.
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Filed Under: bitcoin, homeland security, ice
Companies: dwolla, mt gox
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Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Bitcoin is the kind of casino scam that gov't SHOULD be shutting down -- instead of allowing on Wall Street.
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Fixed
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Re: Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
There is nothing behind Walstreet values except the CONfidence of investors.
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, nor a scam, stop spreading FUD.
While you are entitled to your opinion, such outright hatred is unwarranted. Bitcoin is a valid alternative currency with plenty of smart people behind it as well as using it.
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Re: Re: Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Personally, I'm kindof happy that serious investors are shy about it. Serious investors tend to ruin everything.
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Re: Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
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Re: Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Bitcoin is very different than traditional fiat currency in that you can use it to buy products *without* banks and credit card companies getting a cut.
That's 16 percent of the world economy, and growing.
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Blue you jus' mad today bro.
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
There's no visible backing of the Dollar, other than the fact that people are willing to trade something else for it. In that regard, BitCoin is exactly the same thing as other forms of currency.
The Gold Standard is long gone, you know.
"It's a scam"
From a technical point of view, it most certainly is not. You can analyse the protocol yourself, and see that it is resilient to all kinds of fraud.
"Even if otherwise legit, since totally unrelated to materials, gov'ts can and will invisibly tweak the numbers."
Unlikely. BitCoin is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. The supply is steadily (but slowly) increasing and will plateau at some point. Unless you hoard (virtual) tons of BitCoins, your power to control them will be limited. But if you do that, people will just stop using BitCoin altogether.
"And of course the recent crash proves it's sheer speculation."
On this, I will agree with you, to an extent. BitCoin suffers from a problem: It is extremely volatile. Its value fluctuates too much, making it terrible for storing value. But that is not a problem endemic to BitCoin. It is merely a symptom of not having a centralized entity controlling it and keeping its value artificially stable. That's free market for you...for better of for worse.
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Re: Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
No Bitcoin is not volatile. The dollar is volatile - when measured against Bitcoin...
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Re: Bitcoin is essentially a pyramid scheme.
Do you even fucking read up on any subject that you profess your bullshit theories on, or do you just deepthroat the dictionary and spout the first few meaningful words that formulate sentence structures before you regurgitate them via your keyboard?
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We all know that anything that remotely threatens the established way of doing business is evil and must be crushed.
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Re:
http://www.fundingempire.com/
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Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
Bitcoin shares none of these attributes: it is not controlled by anyone. It is a computer algorithm. There are a known number of bitcoins in existence. How many bank notes are there in existence? Oh, there is no data on that? Too bad. Bitcoins can't be manipulated; however, the exchange rate can be once you try to convert it to a centrally controlled currency. Since you carry your bitcoins in an encrypted file on your mobile device or printed out paper instead of a centrally controlled bank, no one can steal your bitcoins unless you leave your files in clear text or lose your device without a backup.
Back to the pyramid scheme, fiat currency is exactly that. Charles Ponzi would be proud of the banks for creating the ultimate scheme. They keep getting people to believe in the currency by coercing as many people to use their fiat currency as possible. People who want to trade in competing currencies are dealt with in the harshest possible way; often replaced by more compliant people who are willing to play along.
Using Bitcoin is safe, fast and universal all over the world. Please explain where I'm ignorant here. I need to know. Anyone?
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Re: Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
I remind you that the government of Cyprus didn't steal anyone's money. The banks were bankrupt, they couldn't honor all the deposit accounts. The government actually borrowed a huge amount of money in order to guarantee depositors retained more of their savings than they would have otherwise.
Everyone could do with a reminder that their bank deposits are loans, not cash vaults. Those investments can sometimes fail. Nor is currency a good way to store your wealth, anyway. It is a means of facilitating exchanges, preserving value is not its purpose.
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Re: Re: Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
Which simply underscores the pyramid-like nature of fiat money. (Although fiat money is not actually anything like a pyramid scheme, it does share a few attributes with them).
Or to put it another way, isn't there something wrong with a monetary system that provides no real way of preserving value?
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Re: Re: Re: Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
From a monetary perspective: trying to give people ways to save wealth that doesn't involve any risk encourages people to use those methods, which drains money from the credit market that would otherwise be used to invest in new enterprises.
To put this in context of the Bitcoin issue, I want to be clear that I have no objection to Bitcoin. In fact, I'm kind of hoping that it ends up taking on the role that gold has been serving for a while, as an inert asset with stable supply that's popularly believed to have uses an alternative currency. Then at least we could free up the supply of gold for other, more useful things. Bitcoin does potentially have a role to play in the economy, but it's as a complement to fiat currencies, not a replacement.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
That's not preserving wealth, though, that's risking it. It's an important and valuable thing, to be sure, but there should be some way of being able to hold on to what you've earned without risk.
Preserving wealth is as important as generating wealth. Without that ability, we are all but indentured servants.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Centrally controlled fiat currencies are a pyramid scheme
Why? Value isn't static. Think about pre-currency economies running on barter. Cows are still the primary means of exchange in a lot of east African communities. How do you preserve the value of a herd of cattle? You can't just lock them in a pen for as long as you want, they'll die and begin to rot. You'll have to care for them yourself, or lend or sell them on to someone else in return for something else, such as a contract for future goods or services.
There's no good reason that anyone should expect currency-based economies to function any differently at a fundamental level. Trying to lock up wealth into no-risk hoards is a recipe for stagnancy at best, and we're all be better off with the vitality of constantly fluctuating credit markets. Yes, there is uncertainty and risk from having to invest your savings, but that's simply a reflection of the nature of life and reality, the world around us is constantly changing and we could all die tomorrow. At the moment, the best we can do is pretend that some assets are risk free, such as with insured deposits. But the truth is that such schemes merely move the risk around so that it's borne by other parties, such as governments or private insurers. Even precious metals aren't risk-free, you're counting on other investors and metal brokers to keep up the price for you.
Indentured to our own need for scarce resources in order to survive, perhaps. But there's no financial scheme at all which can hope to solve that, it's the fundamental economic problem. There's just no way out until our production becomes unlimited.
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The First (?) of Many Roadblocks
I think it will ultimately succeed, but it's going to be a wild ride in the mean time.
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floored!
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Otherwise, its hard to hear you over the facts supporting Bitcoins.
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Both Ways
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Google beats Bitcoin
http://alfidicapitalblog.blogspot.com/2013/05/social-implications-of-integrating.html
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Most simply regurgitate what they've read somewhere and dismiss it as a viable idea.
If you take a moment of your day to spend time learning about what you do not know, you may begin to develop an open mind.
And then maybe... just maybe... you'll stop getting your opinions from the television.
Digital currencies are the future. Look around you: are lives become more digital everyday.
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