Why, Yes, Of Course The NSA Spying Involves More Companies Than Already Listed
Verizon: We Protect Our Customers' Data... Until The Government Asks For It

Intelligence Boss Claims The Real Villain Here Is The Press For Revealing His Secret Spying Program

Say That Again

from the nice-try,-clapper dept

Fri, Jun 7th 2013 5:27am — Mike Masnick
So we already wrote a bit about how Director of National Intelligence James Clapper was using weasel words or outright lying, in trying to insist that the NSA wasn't actually gathering up data on pretty much every American. However, his statements go even further into the ridiculous. In his initial statement, even the title is combative:
DNI Statement on Recent Unauthorized Disclosures of Classified Information
Notice the focus is not on the unauthorized disclosure of widespread NSA surveillance, but rather "disclosure of classified information." So he's already priming the pump for the "real" villain: the press who are reporting on this.
The unauthorized disclosure of a top secret U.S. court document threatens potentially long-lasting and irreversible harm to our ability to identify and respond to the many threats facing our nation.
We've heard that before, and it's ridiculous on multiple levels. First, most would-be terrorists are likely to assume that the government is monitoring all of this stuff anyway, because there have been plenty of hints in the past. So, it's not really that likely that this sudden "revelation" is going to lead some massive change in how bad people communicate. But, more importantly, even if monitoring certain terrorists was so key to dealing with threats, that still doesn't matter. The DNI's job is not "stop threats by any means necessary." Because that's crazy. While it might help government respond to illegal activity, that doesn't mean that we give up our 4th Amendment rights, nor does it mean we need such broad, all-encompassing orders. Such things could easily have been done using a specific, targeted warrant, seeking information on a specific individual. That is, they could have done targeting which would have been useful, but they chose not to, and instead demanded all data.

But, of course, he doubles down at the end on how awful it is that people are talking about this (not that the NSA has access to so much data on everybody):
Discussing programs like this publicly will have an impact on the behavior of our adversaries and make it more difficult for us to understand their intentions.
Basically "hey everybody, shut up and stop confirming what everyone knew already: that the US spied on lots and lots of stuff." Also, this appears to be a government official telling everyone to not exercise their 1st Amendment rights to complain about the NSA violating their 4th Amendment rights. The Constitution is crying in the corner.
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Filed Under: blame, james clapper, national security, press, surveillance

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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 3:37am

    Makes sense if you swap in two words

    If you take out 'adversaries', and replace it with 'the public', then his statement makes perfect sense, as an informed citizenry is and always has been the greatest threat to would-be tyrants.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      The Real Michael, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:14am

      Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

      ^This.

      Seriously, what are all these mysterious "threats" our nation is facing? It's no secret that we send spies into countries we considered a threat, such as Russia. If the NSA is spying on the American people (and they are), that clearly implies that the government considers the public to be a threat.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        TheLastCzarnian (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:56am

        Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

        The threats we face are top-secret. We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you.

        Have a nice day!

        -NSA

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 2:18pm

        Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

        (which it is, partially)

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 10:40am

      Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

      That is the exact reason why the Tea Party exists. They are full of moderates and conservatives who saw this shit coming under Obama and got very mad that the current representation of "Republican" candidates' corrupt nature in not combating the presidency on these issues.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        JEDIDIAH, 7 Jun 2013 @ 10:59am

        Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

        This program goes back to 2007.

        Obama was not in office in 2007.

        Obama's great fault here really is being too much like Bush.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Joe Dirt, 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:52am

          Re: Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

          The real problem is BIG GOVERNMENT.

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Internet Zen Master (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:59am

          Re: Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

          Uh, considering the fact that, if I remember what I heard on NPR correctly, that one of the Senators saying that everyone in Congress knew about this since 2007, I'd have to call out the Dems on not raising a stink about it back when they had both houses of Congress under their control.

          That being said, all those political cartoons I keep seeing portraying Obama as "Nixon 2.0" are beginning to feel more and more accurate. If he says that he "learned about this the way everyone else did (aka through news reports)" this time, the US news media should really start holding his proverbial feet to the fire over this. I mean, if you've got the fake news show (The Daily Show), calling out his bullshit before the actual news networks (excluding FOX), they really need to step up their game.

          As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        John Fenderson (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 1:24pm

        Re: Re: Makes sense if you swap in two words

        If that's true, then why are Tea Party candidates invariably in favor of greater corporate power and more government regulation when it comes to their pet subjects?

        The Tea Party is no better than anyone else. They just have a different set of issues that they want authoritarian control over.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    rw (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:34am

    The biggest threat our nation faces right now is the NSA and our own government.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:36am

    PRISM

    Heads-up. The PRISM leak might be a hoax to make Greenwald look like a nutcase.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:37am

    Exercise of Power

    Sounds like he is worried that all this attention will result in his power being reduced. Those that seek power always hate it when this happens, and take it as a personal loss of face.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:37am

    You know who else is GREAT with weasel words? Mike Masnick, King of the Weasels. Just ask him to discuss his beliefs directly. He doesn't do that. He weasels.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:41am

    Shocking. Outrageous.

    I would fire the entire NSA staff for relying on security through obscurity. That is completely unacceptable.


    ...what? Oh, right, the whole spying deal. Er, yeah that's bad too, but let's focus on the important bits first.

    /bad joke

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:45am

    Who cares if the NSA are spying? If you have nothing to hide what does it matter. Stopping piracy is more important.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:51am

      Re:

      "Who cares if the NSA are spying? If you have nothing to hide what does it matter. Stopping piracy is more important"

      One can only hope the NSA has a bulging file on OotB.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        TheLastCzarnian (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:04am

        Re: Re:

        Nah, his file just says, "schizophrenic. Make sure meds are taken and keep away from firearms, sharp implements, and pointed sticks."

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Milton Freewater, 7 Jun 2013 @ 1:54pm

        Re: Re:

        "One can only hope the NSA has a bulging file on OotB."

        I hope that none of my taxpayer dollars are being used to investigate a content-free joke account on an obscure tech blog.

        But I guess it's nice to know that anytime he calls 911 to complain that water is dry, they will make a note of it.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      out_of_my_ass, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:53am

      Re:

      Who cares if Google is spying? If you have nothing to hide what does it matter. Stopping speech is more important.

      blah blah techdirt tour same place blah Mikey is a shill blah my blog would be better f I had one.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:06am

      Re:

      You forgot to equate Google with NSA spying. Bad attempt at ootb troll. No cookie for you!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:07am

      Re:

      Coming from the person who's always screaming about how google is spying on everything you do and that makes them the epitome of evil!, your comment here is nothing short of hilarious.

      Of course that would only matter if I believed this was the 'real' blue, as I'm betting it's just a poe instead.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:37am

      Re:

      Well played fake ootb AC.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Zakida Paul (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:12am

      Re:

      The comment of the person with nothing to contribute.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      jackn, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:18am

      Re:

      But the NSA is pirating my phone calls and they circumvented the controls in place to prevent this theft of my copyrighted material.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Pragmatic, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:21am

      Re:

      Wait, what?

      Out_of_his_mind just said that stopping piracy is MORE IMPORTANT than upholding the US Constitution???!!!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:51am

    The news i've been reading about the US, new laws being passed, CISPA's stuffs. And this constant surveillance, reminds me of the dictatorship my country was that ended in the 80's.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mr. Applegate, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:15am

    James Clapper makes Nixon look like a saint.

    J. Edgar Hoover would be proud.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:18am

      Re:

      I'm sure Nixon would have liked to have been able to get away with claiming that the Washington Post was the real villain for publishing the story about Watergate. Welcome to our next Watergate.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    RyanNerd (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:21am

    This just pisses me off

    The NSA is building a damn data center in my back yard.
    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/06/06/2423915/nsa-whistleblowers-say-agency.html
    I live in southern Utah.
    That the Obama administration is mired in one scandal after another makes me wonder if anyone is paying attention to all the bullshit that is being blown onto the American public. I guess the sheeple don't mind the manure. Sorry for the rant, but like the title says. I'm a bit pissed off and more than a little frustrated that Big Brother has gotten so much control in my lifetime.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Chris-Mouse (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:34am

      Re: This just pisses me off

      The problem with that statement is that it's NOT Obama. The real problem is with the entire political process in the USA. Until such time as politicians don't have to depend on financial donations to stay in office, they will continue dancing to the tune of those with the cash to buy elections.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Mr. Applegate, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:40am

        Re: Re: This just pisses me off

        Very true. They all have got to go or they are going to destroy this country.

        I would only add that all political office should be limited to two terms. Holding a political office is supposed to be a SERVICE TO YOUR COUNTRY, not a career path.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:41am

        Re: Re: This just pisses me off

        I think you're right. Obama hasn't done much to oppose these abuses, but I don't really think a different President would make any difference. The buck don't stop there.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          btr1701 (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 10:02am

          Re: Re: Re: This just pisses me off

          > Obama hasn't done much to oppose these abuses,
          > but I don't really think a different President would
          > make any difference.

          That's why I enjoy the frowny-faces of the idealistic young Obama supporters who have watched their man�s descent from Harvey Dent into Two-Face, if only because, as Poor Richard said, �Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.�

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Rick Smith (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:51am

        Re: Re: This just pisses me off

        I don't think the OP is claiming that it is Obama, only that the attention from his administration's scandals are keeping the public eyes focused on him and that someone else is taking advantage of it behind the scenes.

        I also agree with you that our current political process (all of it) is broken.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Angry Voter, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:13pm

        Re: Re: This just pisses me off

        Several members of Congress have said off record that they were blackmailed into voting for the PATRIOT act and its renewal.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      jupiterkansas (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:53am

      Re: This just pisses me off

      The fact that they are mired in one scandal after another means people are paying attention. Otherwise there would be no scandal.

      The question is what's going to be done about it, if anything can be done.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      The Real Michael, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:06am

      Re: This just pisses me off

      Yeah, I posted about this massive facility being built in Utah awhile back.

      Just think, a facility built on US soil to be used AGAINST the people, to amass a tremendous amount of data in violation of Constitutional law.

      The war on drugs, terror, guns... in actuality are fabricated threats created to villanize us, necessary in order for the government to justify its expansion of power at the greater expense of our Constitutional rights.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:24am

    Soon the USA will have a 10pm curfew, because "terrorism".

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:35am

      Re:

      No need, just make it so the police are unaccountable for their actions, let human nature take it's course when they are given power without restrictions or oversight, and suddenly people don't want to go outside.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:40am

      Re:

      ["Soon the USA will have a 10pm curfew, because "terrorism".]

      We already do, to a certain loose extent, and have for years. Get pulled over by a cop at 3 AM and you'll be questioned about why you're out in the middle of the night.

      Buddy of mine used to be a cop and worked rotating shifts, and when on the graveyard shift, anyone who was pulled over was asked that question. They assume you're up to no good.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Mr. Applegate, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:43am

        Re: Re:

        My response to that question was always the same. "None of your business" that always pissed them off... I used to run sound for a band, and drove an old beat up cargo van. I got pulled over almost every night after a show.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:47am

        Re: Re:

        Wow they do that?
        That is sick, I didn't think it was that bad.
        I'm not sure how it looks from the inside, but from an European point of view, the US have very little difference from Russia or China in terms of freedom of speech.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:19am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Get pulled over by a cop at 3 AM and you'll be questioned about why you're out in the middle of the night.
          � from an European point of view, the US have very little difference from Russia or China in terms of freedom of speech.

          Reads to me like a non-sequitor. It doesn't follow. ����� The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises.

          So maybe I'm mis-reading? You want to amplify why a European p.o.v. would lump the U.S. into the Russian/Chinese bloc on freedom-of-speech? Please.

          And I presume you're speaking Western European? Or maybe I'm mis-reading that too. Southern European? Baltic? Or all Euro?

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:44am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I'm talking about a Portuguese view, but my German, Croatian, Greek, Czech and Dannish friends share my point of view.

            Maybe freedom of speech wasn't the correct approach, what I want to pass is that much of the things I've been reading in the news as well as in this website, about laws that diminish individual liberties, are very similar to the ones my parents and grandparents had to live with when we had a dictatorship here in Portugal.

            [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          btr1701 (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 10:08am

          Re: Re: Re:

          > but from an European point of view, the US
          > have very little difference from Russia or China
          > in terms of freedom of speech

          Oh please. At least you can't be jailed in the US merely for offending someone and telling an off-color joke, like you can in most European countries.

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            JEDIDIAH, 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:07am

            Stupid Eurotrash

            Eurotrash love to think how they are so much better than Americans and so much more cosmopolitan and worldly. Nonsense like this just shows that they have no more clue than the average mindless American suburban housewife.

            [ link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 12:10pm

              Re: Stupid Eurotrash

              I apologise on account of him. The guy is from Portugal: A country where the constitution is getting broken and where corruption is pretty significant. His friends in Croatia and Greece have far worse problems than surveillance.
              Chezh republic is not as free as they like to believe and Denmark has an openness in administration (FOIA-type) on level with the Vatican State. Germany has been good at keeping bad stories out of the media. There are plenty of problems lurking barely below the surface afaik (on the hush-hush).

              [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 12:02pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          As a european I wouldn't throw stones...

          UK is surveillance paradise, nordic countries have massive surveillance too from police and army secret services and France is France...
          Most of the rest have basic problems in their democratic process (maybe except Germany, Austria, Luxembourgh and Holland. Even those are pretty problematic in certain areas - especially Germany and Luxembourgh.)

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:30am

      Re:

      Soon the USA will have a 10pm curfew, because "terrorism".

      �The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe.�


      ( Volokh's discussion of the source for this quote is puzzling: Did the words originate with Tom Wolf? or with Jean-Fran�ois Revel? )

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Chris-Mouse (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:30am

    It's looking more and more like the history books in 2050 will record 9-11 as America's version of the Reichstag fire

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:33am

    ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

    Boy, NOW you're jumping hard on merged gov't-corporate SPYING, college boy! After barely a mention, if any, from you in the years I've been dropping in here.

    So, Mike, do you now admit that Google is a SPY AGENCY as the real out_of_the_blue has MANY times mentioned? -- Of course you have their weasel-worded denial to hide behind, but we know that spooks are liars too.


    Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up same place!
    http://techdirt.com/
    Techdirt Axiom #1: Mike once quipped "Streisand Effect" = he's the authority on every topic.
    02:32:54[c-025-0]

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:42am

      Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

      What do you mean 'now?' This has been an ongoing topic of conversation here for years... It's pretty ironic that you've got that puerile loopy tour signature on every post it certainly yes you haven't really been paying any attention at all to what's being discussed.

      I'm sorry ootb but being legally coerced by a spy agency doesn't make you a spy agency. I can see how you might see it that way, given that you think there's a never ending link for liability whenever something happens a la secondary, tertiary, quaternary, quinary ect ect ect liability for infringement, why wouldn't the same apply to spying. Hey, I'm a "SPY AGENCY" because I used the internet which the ISPs, who are SPY AGENCIES, gave to the NSA, who is obviously SPY AGENCY, and so are you!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Pragmatic, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:28am

        Re: Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

        Needless to say, the funniest part is that Cathy (this one is her) USES Google. You know, the creepy gubmint spy agency. That Google.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 6:58am

      Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

      Ah yes, good ol Blue. Google is bad because google. Everyone else is fine though. Perfectly acceptable. Government spying? Fine. Locking up culture? Fine. Locking up citizens for trivial things? Fine.
      But holy shit Google.
      Google? Google google. Google google the Google google google.
      Google.
      Google google? Google google google.
      google.
      Motherfucking Google.

      Blue, you're a joke. You're not even a good joke. You're that bad joke that's always told too soon. You're the poster child for abortion.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:00am

        Re: Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

        Don't let Blue happen to You. Abort today!

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:08am

      Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

      Google is still not a spy agency.

      That would be the NSA.

      Google is a search engine that has been forced to hand over user data by a corrupt government.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        John Fenderson (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:36am

        Re: Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

        Google is a company that supplies a lot of services that are designed to accomplish the same goal: learning as much as they can about you in order to target advertising to you. That's a kind of spying (albeit opt-in) in my book.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:50am

          Re: Re: Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

          The risks to you from the data gathering are very different. If Google make a mistake with its analysis, they try to feed you adverts that you will totally ignore (if you don't already have adblock running). If the government make a mistake, armed men can burst in through your front door, and expose you and your family to a risk of being shot dead.

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            John Fenderson (profile), 10 Jun 2013 @ 9:39am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: ^^^Ah, Techdirt... Blind Mike, ankle-biters, and frauds.

            I absolutely agree, but that doesn't take away from the notion that Google spies.

            [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    RyanNerd (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:02am

    This just pisses me off continued

    For those of you who don't think the Obama administration is part of the problem (not excusing Bush and his asshat antics):

    ...Bamford's assumption was that the uproar over a separate, post-9/11 warrantless wiretapping program and the departure of the Bush administration meant that the NSA had been reined in.

    "Here we are, under the Obama administration, doing it sort of like the Bush administration on steroids," he said in an interview with the Associated Press. "This order here is about as broad as it can possibly get, when it comes to focusing on personal communications. There's no warrant, there's no suspicion, there's no probable cause ... it sounds like something from East Germany."
    Source: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/06/06/2423915/nsa-whistleblowers-say-agency.html

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:14am

    Just wait til they see what Anonymous did.

    Hee hee

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Alt0, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:19am

    What saddens my heart in all of this is, now we can fully expect an "event" where those who got caught in this outrageous behavior will then say, "See!, if you all just left this alone, we could have stopped it."
    Makes you wonder how far they would go (or have already gone) to justify themselves. Including the event which started the whole ball rolling.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:24am

    when the head of the security services is blaming someone else AND lying ti Congress, as well as getting Congress to try to play down what is happening (remember that any of the members of Congress that found out that they were being spied on, assuming that at the moment they are not, would be extremely worried/angry about it) has to be real bad!!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:52am

      Re:

      remember that any of the members of Congress that found out that they were being spied on, assuming that at the moment they are not

      Interesting idea, but it requires data to be filtered after it is collected. Would such filtering only apply to the congress critters private numbers, or does it include their office numbers. What about members of their family, staffers and other associates? What about calls from the public to their phone?
      Looks to me like it is much easier to gather their data along with everybody else's.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:08am

        Re: Re:

        What about calls from the public to their [members of Congress] phone?

        Right now, based on all available information, I'm presuming that the call I made yesterday to my Congressman's D.C. office, via Verizon, wound up in the NSA database. In that call to my U.S. representative, I urged the impeachment of the N.S.A. director. Why is the N.S.A. monitoring a call like that?

        I do not believe that can be justified.

        �

        Btw, what do your elected representatives' offices have to say to you on this issue? You did call, didn't you?

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 7:35am

    Security at all costs is no security at all.

    What happens when your government is the enemy an becomes the real threat?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:16am

    Boston

    I brought this up in another post but it was late so I'll say it again.

    If this type of spying is necessary to stop terrorism why didn't it stop the Boston Bombers?
    They had been under surveillance, they were foreigners in contact with other foreigners and yet...

    So as an American they feel they need my personal info to do what?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:22am

      Re: Boston

      So as an American they feel they need my personal info to do what?

      Well, Virginia used to care whether you were a member of the NAACP. � I mean Virginia used to really care about that. � Took it all the way to the Supreme Court level of caring. ���� (See NAACP v Button, (1963) for some history on that.)

      Maybe the NSA wants to know whether you belong to the NAACP?

      Hey! Does Barack Obama belong to the NAACP?

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Matthew Cline (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 4:35pm

      Re: Boston

      If this type of spying is necessary to stop terrorism why didn't it stop the Boston Bombers?

      They had been under surveillance, they were foreigners in contact with other foreigners and yet...
      Well, obviously we're not doing enough spying! [/sarcasm]

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Angry Voter, 7 Jun 2013 @ 5:20pm

      Re: Boston

      This also raises the point that the NSA already knew about the wide spread banking fraud, insider trading, bribes and money laundering at the major banks.

      And then pretended they had no evidence.

      But, if you download music that's played on the radio for free ---- THAT justifies a SWAT attack on your house!

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Matthew Cline (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 9:23pm

        Re: Re: Boston

        Feels weird to be defending the NSA, but with that much data they couldn't read it all, but would have to do targeted searches or terrorism-targeted data-mining, neither of which would have revealed stuff like that.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 8:27am

    in actual fact, there are multiple villains. the law enforcement agencies for wanting to get the data, the services for providing it and Congress for allowing it. each is as guilty as the next for their share in what is happening, however, the blame-game changes a little. law enforcement want this data because every single American along with every other person in the world is classed as a terrorist. this is clearly the reason they want the data. it's also the biggest load of bollocks going! Congress knew exactly what was going on and apart from a couple of members whose hands were tied, agreed to this spying. that is absolutely disgraceful behaviour from elected politicians. they are supposed to be (even though they are nowhere near it) honest and trustworthy! they in actual fact deceived the very people they were entrusted with the task of representing, and do not even think about using the ploy of 'keeping the Nation safe!' as an excuse. as for the service providers, they are so scared about losing a cent, those in charge would sell their kids if it meant keeping control, having one over the competition and turning that cent into a dollar!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    FM HIlton, 7 Jun 2013 @ 9:07am

    Lies and spies

    Of course the NSA is collecting more than just 'data' from everyone.
    They've got the most exotic and technologically advanced stuff in the universe to spy on everyone with..and nevermind that they're breaking the law doing it.

    How many facilities do they have? Can't find out, because it's classified. Who did they spy on? Can't tell you, because it's classified. Did they gather more than data on anyone? Can't tell you, blah, blah blah.

    From the time the NSA was created, its' mission has been spying. Not just on the foreigners. Don't be naive-of course it's on Americans. It always has been, always will be.

    They intend to keep it that way, unless someone gets upset, like the committee that controls their funding..but even that isn't a given, since most of their budget is hidden very, very deep inside the military budget under "Miscellaneous expenses."

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 9:26am

    I realised a while back, that while terrorist attacks are scary as hell and very horrifying, I am actually far more scared about how bad the government are going to overreact if another big attack comes, than I am of the actual attack.
    It is sad when you start to feel that way.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      JEDIDIAH, 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:11am

      Little grey scare.

      Terrorism isn't squat. Many of us grew up with the prospect that the world might end in 15 minutes and that could happen at any moment.

      My own death doesn't even seem as scary as the whole world and everyone I've ever known all dying at once.

      People need some perspective.

      We've survived much bigger bogeymen.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        John Fenderson (profile), 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:42am

        Re: Little grey scare.

        Terrorism isn't squat.


        Exactly. And our national reaction to it is so extreme and ludicrous that it makes us look like a nation of cowards.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jeremy Cook, 7 Jun 2013 @ 9:50am

    Twitter

    Shameful, yes. The monitoring thing is part of the reason I use Twitter - everything is public, so there's no question about it. Maybe that's weird logic, I don't know.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 10:35am

    "Intelligence Boss Claims The Real Villain Here Is The Press For Revealing His Secret Spying Program (Say That Again)"



    ***Intelligence Boss Claims The Real Villain Here Is The Press For Revealing His Secret illegal Spying Program (Say That Again)***

    Fixed the title for you ;-)

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Thebes, 7 Jun 2013 @ 11:58am

    Hopefully Clapper will be taken out by one of his subordinates. This man is a traitor and should rightfully be hanged after his conviction.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Jun 2013 @ 12:31pm

    United Fascists of America

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous, 7 Jun 2013 @ 2:18pm

    Clapper...wasn't he on "Rags To Riches"?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]


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