Rep. Peter King Says Reporters Should Be Prosecuted For Reporting On Government Leaks
Now That The Whistle Has Been Blown, Let's Take A Look At Some 'Myths' About The NSA

Even The AP Is Calling Bull On Government Claims Of PRISM Helping Stop NYC Subway Bomb

Overhype

from the when-you-can't-even-convince-them... dept

Wed, Jun 12th 2013 11:09am — Mike Masnick
We've already explained how some NSA supporters, including Rep. Mike Rogers and Senator Dianne Feinstein, are trying to defend PRISM and other NSA surveillance efforts by saying that it stopped a NYC subway bombing but their claims don't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Now even the Associated Press is calling out those statements as highly questionable, which is somewhat amazing for the AP, as it normally loves to just present "both sides of the story" and then let you decide what's real. But the article linked above actually digs in and points out where the claims by the NSA's defenders don't seem to add up to anything.
Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said investigators "found backpacks with bombs." Really, the bombs hadn't been completed and the backpacks the FBI found were unrelated to the plot.

Feinstein said the FBI had Zazi under surveillance for six months. Court testimony showed Zazi was watched only for about two weeks before he was arrested.
But there's a much bigger point that the AP makes. Even if the claim was somehow true that PRISM was useful, nowhere does that claim show how a standard warrant wouldn't have provided the same information:
That's because, even before the surveillance laws of 2007 and 2008, the FBI had the authority to - and did, regularly - monitor email accounts linked to terrorists. The only difference was, before the laws changed, the government needed a warrant.

To get a warrant, the law requires that the government show that the target is a suspected member of a terrorist group or foreign government, something that had been well established at that point in the Zazi case.
In other words, even if PRISM was used, there's no evidence that it was needed, because the NSA could have easily obtained the same information through traditional means -- getting a warrant -- and without potentially violating the privacy of millions of others.
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Filed Under: dianne feinstein, exaggeration, james clapper, mike rogers, nsa, nsa surveillance, nyc subway bomb, prism, warrants, zazi

37 Comments

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:14am

    We need to start calling these people who blatantly go against the U.S. Constitution by what they really are. Enemies of the State.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      gorehound (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 2:12pm

      Re:

      Exactly ! And what we are seeing now is their inevitable BS Stories and those Politicians think they are so frigging Smart............LOL !
      Caught in a web of their own lies !

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:14am

    Warrants are just inefficient.

    It's much easier if you have all the data on hand and can simply consulate at the time of your choosing.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:15am

    The Guardian has dug into this as well...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:20am

    "Now even the Associated Press is calling out those statements as highly questionable, which is somewhat amazing for the AP, as it normally loves to just present "both sides of the story" and then let you decide what's real."

    I think the AP being targeted might have something to do with it.

    The press in general tends to very much not like it when you do things that may infringe on freedom of the press.

    Also, being balanced can be a good thing... but when one side is just lying, it's appropriate to call them on it.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:31am

    Farmer Mike, milkin' it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD2hx0uyhMo

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:45am

    considering the positions they hold and what they have to do with USA 'security', is it any wonder that they come out with this crap? the amazing thing is that still assume everyone is a complete moron and will believe whatever rubbish they spout! i think it is such a shame that they cant be put on the edge of perhaps, losing their position. i can smell where they have crapped backwards already!

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    boomslang, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:49am

    I think we're missing the bigger point

    We need to start collecting data on the people at the NSA. They were the folk that have probably had the most contact with Edward Snowden.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:51am

    I just had a thought.

    Extremist organisations will use this NSA spying to brainwash vulnerable people into joining their 'cause'. Congrats NSA, you are making the problem of extremism worse.

    Can't believe that did not dawn on me until now. My God I am slow.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Glen, 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:54am

      Re:

      That is something I hadn't considered. That is all the more depressing.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 11:59am

        Re: Re:

        It is similar to the IRA using mass targeting of Northern Irish Catholics in the 70s to brainwash people from deprived areas into joining the organisation.

        The way to stop extremism is not with a technical solution (monitoring or blocking), it needs a social solution.

        [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 12:04pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Starting by being transparent and honest.

          The US government is in trouble (relatively speaking) not because they spied on Americans, but because they have been doing it in secret and lying about it.

          People don't tend to trust liars and cheats. This opens up the doors for someone else to rise up and proclaim himself the next saviour. And people will trust him because the alternative is...well...the guy that has already lied and cheated.

          The end result can only be bloody. And it is the Government's fault for not upholding the values of Democracy above all else.

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 1:27pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          The way to stop extremism is not with a technical solution (monitoring or blocking), it needs a social solution.

          Truth. Extremism breeds extremism.

          In order for a social solution to even gain traction, both "sides" (in quotes, since there's usually more than 2, and many degrees of nuance between) need to see the other as people with differing views and sometimes legitimate grievances instead of mere objects or as evil.

          In the current political climate of the US, we have trouble doing that between two peaceful political parties, and sometimes even within a single party (ie tea party vs. GOP establishment).

          [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 3:25pm

      Re:

      If I was a cynic(which I am), I'd say that's called 'ensuring job security for the years to come'.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 1:06pm

    Are they going to use PRISM on the IRS scandal ?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 1:33pm

    rats

    for each of these whistle-blowers that exit from the security apparatus in disgust, how many rats remain using this information flow for their own ends, a dozen?, a hundred?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 2:22pm

    "because the NSA could have easily obtained the same information through traditional means -- getting a warrant -- and without potentially violating the privacy of millions of others."

    I'm confused. They found out he was a terrorist by seeing emails. Exactly what "traditional" means could of been used to find out he was building bombs?

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 3:31pm

      How about these ones?

      1. See suspicious activity.
      2. Present evidence of suspicious activity to judge.
      3. Get warrant.
      4. Using warrant, collect more evidence of suspicious activity.
      5. Upon collecting sufficient evidence to prove harmful intent, make arrest.

      You'll notice nowhere in there was the step 'Collect phone, email, and other records of thousands/millions of innocent people without warrant just in case' needed to catch this person.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      John Fenderson (profile), 12 Jun 2013 @ 3:48pm

      Re:

      They found out he was a terrorist by seeing emails.


      They looked at his emails because they already knew he was up to no good. They didn't discover him by prowling through everyone's emails.

      Since they already had him connected to terrorism, getting a warrant to look at his emails would have been fast and easy. Nothing about this case demonstrates that massive spying on our communications was required.

      [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 Jun 2013 @ 5:18pm

    Reverse Surveilance

    I always thought that it was us that should be watching them. I mean, they do work for us...

    Now I KNOW we should be the watchers here.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    The Real Michael, 13 Jun 2013 @ 5:19am

    How many terrorist plots has the government prevented on account of PRISM? Zero. None. Zilch. Their predictable response would be, "That's a national security secret." Bull. They've prevented nothing, otherwise explain how the Boston bombers managed to pull of their attack despite direct warnings provided by Russian intelligence?

    These spy programs aren't meant to reign in (imaginary) terrorists, they're meant to spot patterns and manufacture terrorist threats from within. Of course they'll need to extend and distort the definition of 'terrorism,' since Americans aren't in the habit of committing such acts. I guess that after the CIA created Al Qaeda, they figured that after bombing middle-eastern countries, there'd be thousands of copycat attacks domestically from Muslim extremists, but things didn't pan out the way they envisioned. So the FBI has resorted to foiling their own fake terrorist plots, using whatever unsuspecting patsy they could find, in order to give the appearance that there's a threat and they're 'the good guys'™ looking out for our best interests.

    [ link to this | view in chronology ]

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Rep. Peter King Says Reporters Should Be Prosecuted For Reporting On Government Leaks
Now That The Whistle Has Been Blown, Let's Take A Look At Some 'Myths' About The NSA
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