Congress, Finally Curious About NSA Spying, Discovers That It's Even More Widespread Than Previously Believed
from the and,-to-think,-they-could-have-asked-before dept
As we've been pointing out for some time, a small number of elected officials in Congress have been practically screaming at the top of their lungs -- within the confines of what they're allowed to say about classified information -- that the NSA is clearly abusing its spying powers given to them under the Patriot Act. And, most of Congress didn't care. Last September, we noted that the House was ready to reauthorize the FISA Amendments Act, which includes a key provision that enabled part of the spying, and it refused to ask the NSA to answer some basic questions about how it was using the law. Those questions likely would have revealed much of the vast surveillance efforts that are now generating so much interest and controversy. Later, in voting for it, many in Congress flat out misrepresented what was in the bill itself. Rep. Trey Gowdy, who once argued that reporters should be put in jail if they report on intelligence leaks, insisted, vehemently, that the surveillance portion of the bill had "nothing to do with Americans on American soil." Gowdy's been silent on the issue since the leaks came out.However, others in Congress, have suddenly become curious about what the NSA is doing, and they got a secret briefing, which apparently opened quite a few eyes. Rep. Linda Sanchez has noted that what's become public is "just the tip of the iceberg," suggesting that the NSA is going much, much further with its surveillance capabilities than what has already been revealed. That isn't all that surprising, but it is depressing (and ridiculous) that Congress is only curious enough to explore this issue now, despite many, many claims by fellow members of Congress that this was happening. I appreciate the fact that Reps. like Sanchez are now seeking the truth, but it's distressing that our own representatives ignored these points for so long, despite their colleagues trying to highlight the issue. Now, hopefully, this means that Congress will being to do something to stop the abuse.
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.) said lawmakers learned "significantly more" about the spy programs at the National Security Agency (NSA) during a briefing on Tuesday with counterterrorism officials.Well, what is out in the media... so far. Glenn Greenwald has already indicated that there are dozens of additional stories and revelations to come out of the other documents he has in his possession.
"What we learned in there," Sanchez said, "is significantly more than what is out in the media today."
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Filed Under: congress, fisa amendments act, linda sanchez, nsa nsa surveillance, trey gowdy
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What a crock
In the meantime, they've just polished off their Utah spying center and are going ahead with building another in Maryland. Guess who granted the NSA the taxpayer funding necessary to further erode our Constitutional rights? Yeah, my point exactly...
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Re: What a crock
http://judiciary.edgeboss.net/wmedia/judiciary/full/fullcomm_06132013.wvx
Min: 52:10
It's Congress' duty to ask questions and hold accountable the members of these organizations that they are upholding the laws and constitution of the US. So basically, it sounds to me that since 9/11, Congress has just been a rubber stamp as has been the FISA courts to erode our rights as citizens. This is a complete break down of the three branches of government.
I don't blame the cops/military/FBI etc, it's their job to hunt down people. It's the job of congress to ensure that the laws are written correctly to protect our freedoms and still have the ability to go after criminals. It's also the FISA court's and DoJ's responsibility to ensure those laws are followed according to set standards of previous judgements and the given laws. Since everyone just seems to have this attitude of no holds barred, it's basically just saying let's throw the Constitution in the trash because there's terrorists....
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Re: Re: What a crock
I don't know about you guys but I've been emailing my reps for years now letting them know what I approve of and what I don't.
I'm just one guy - if a whole slew of people actually stood up for their rights, maybe congress would listen a little more intently.
FWIW, Feinstein is my senator, and I have NEVER ONCE voted for her - she's a corrupt dinosaur of a senator, and she deserves to be put to pasture.
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Re: Re: Re: What a crock
Those people in congress are impervious to mail from actual voters.
To hold them accountable we would need legal frameworks that don't exist today.
How to put that in there?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: What a crock
"Americans' confidence in Congress as an institution is down to 10%, ranking the legislative body last on a list of 16 societal institutions for the fourth straight year. This is the lowest level of confidence Gallup has found, not only for Congress, but for any institution on record."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/163052/americans-confidence-congress-falls-lowest-record.aspx
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Re: Re: Re: What a crock
Dude, it's like the Congressional leadership are explaining that the United States surrendered to the Soviet Union.
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Re: Re: What a crock
Somehow the NSA needs to limit access to this data to a few and only use it for the good of the country.
I would not mind if it was used to prevent crimes being committed, major crimes that is, but i am totally against it being used to control people by using it to collect data on someones personal list of people they dislike.Or being used by the courts to force people to accept being abused by this knowledge.
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Re: Re: What a crock
Tough for them to do this when the bastards lie to their faces, telling them that they are specifically NOT doing the exact thing they ARE doing.
Now, about these lying to Congress charges, Mr. Clapper.....
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Re: Re: Re: What a crock
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Human nature is flawed.
I can't help but wonder if this is all just political grandstanding until the next major event shoves the NSA leak issue out of the public eye. All that needs to happen is another act of nature that kills hundreds or another bomb threat and major media outlets will shift their attention to covering those and this whole debacle will be put behind us as another "fluke."
I hope not.
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Re: Human nature is flawed.
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MILK MILK MILK!!!
Never ever discuss your beliefs directly and honestly. Just milk it for all the clicks you can. Yeah!
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Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
“Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database”, by Tim Mak, Politico, June 13, 2013
Unbelievable.
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Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
Same thing Hayden said earlier this week:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130611/18344823416/former-nsa-boss-we-dont-datamine-our- giant-data-collection-we-just-ask-it-questions.shtml
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Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
But not the impression I got from reading DNI James Clapper's NBC News interview with Andrea Mitchell.
“Transcript of Andrea Mitchell's Interview with Director of National Intelligence James Clapper”, NBC News, June 9, 2013
Looking closer at that question and response that I've partially excerpted above, it appears that Ms. Mitchell was asking specifically about the phone records program. But Gen. Clapper was perhaps answering about something else.
That's a pretty typical politician thing: Ignore the question the reporter asked, and instead answer some other question that the politician wants to answer.
Here Ms. Mitchell is again referring specifically to the phone program. Gen. Clapper reinforces the misleading response he gave to the earlier question.
Nor am I the only person to get this wrong impression—although others who got that impression were not necessarily basing that on the James Clapper interview. There have been articles in Slate, Forbes, and elsewhere, all leading to the impression that the court's role wasn't over after the judge rubberstamps the production order.
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Re: Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
• “The Case for Mass Surveillance”, by William Saletan, Slate, June 10, 2013
• “How The NSA Tracks Your Calls”, by Jeff Kelly, Forbes, June 7, 2013
That “article” in Forbes is perhaps better characterized as a “blog post”. The author, Jeff Kelly, is some kind of “Big Data Research Analyst at Wikibon.org”.
Rather than providing a links for the “elsewhere” that I referred to above, instead, I'll just drill down into one analyst's source, the “DNI Statement on Recent Unauthorized Disclosures of Classified Information” (June 06, 2013). That analyst highlights the DNI assertion:
Reading that ODNI press release carefully, it really does not actually say that the court is supervising the process after it rubberstamps the production order.
But "strict, court-imposed restrictions on review and handling" seems to imply that the FISC isn't just a total rubberstamp.
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Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
I better clarify what I mean by the single word: “Unbelievable”.
I mean I'm stunned, shocked: This is incredible.
But, yeah, I actually have no reason to doubt that Ms. Feinstein is honestly relating her understanding of the program. And her understanding is not entirely at variance with the testimony that I've previously heard on this matter.
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Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
I've reached the point where it's virtually impossible for me to believe anything these politicians have to say. I don't believe what Feinstein has to say. This is the same person who said that if she'd disarm every American if she could.
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Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
Well, do you believe Mr Sensenbrenner, when he said Section 215 "was originally drafted to prevent data mining" on the scale that's occurred—do you believe Mr Sensenbrenner?
( Possibly Mr Sensenbrenner didn't really say that. I followed Mike's Techdirt link back to Lindsey Grudnicki's story. But is that story made up out of whole cloth? Do you believe reporters? )
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Re: Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
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Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
Except herself of course......
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Re: Re: Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
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Re: Dianne Feinstein: NSA needs no court to query database
This isn't the report I originally saw in The Guardian, but a later story. It contains substantially the same news, with some elaboration.
“NSA to release details of attacks it claims were foiled by surveillance”, by Spencer Ackerman, The Guardian, June 13, 2013
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Re:
Like Thomas Paine once wrote its only Common Sense
That if a government won't give you your basic rights
You better get another government!
At least that is what Schoolhouse Rock taught me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrSeCYSnj5Y
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Re: Re:
A government formed by terrorists is now afraid of terrorists.
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If it's a Terminator reference then I want my cookie. That wasn't so much terrorists though so I think no cookie for me.
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do u believe B.O. or Ed S.?`
http://www.peterbcollins.com/newscomment/pbc-news-comment-do-you-believe-barack-obama-or-ed -snowden/
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"That isn't all that surprising,"
Mechanical Mike.
Yeah, that's all I got, 'cause as usual, "This isn't surprising." And the topic is nothing one can't find all over. I keep wondering WHAT the draw is here. It's not scintillating writing, brilliant insights, or fiery outrage... I'm afraid that the draw is the critics...
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
I always thougt OOTB was one of those "artificial intelligence" chat bots that you get bored of after five minutes because everything they say is unrelated to the topic.
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
NSA database query.
CASE WHEN music = "anomaly" THEN 'Alert' WHEN music != "anomaly" THEN 'move on' ELSE 'ignore' END
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
Scared of having the truth on your site for a change?
You are a crazy nutbag who has no idea.
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
The rest of you can thank me later. ;-)
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Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
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Re: Re: "That isn't all that surprising,"
Cathy is the rabid anti-communist/google/socialist/collectivist/pirate and fanatical maximalist.
There's a quasi-libertarian Blue, a left-wing "rich are parasites" Blue, and a rational Blue.
This appears to be a random one.
Cathy uses a timestamp to identify herself. And raves about teh googlez spying on her.
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Re:
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Greenwald and the powers of dark...
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Congress...
It's not much of a story, really.
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Re: Congress...
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Re: Re: Re: Congress...
So how much time of your life have you spent in Germany?
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Re: Re: Re: Congress...
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Guardian DDOS?
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Re: Guardian DDOS?
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b)who really believes it's only the NSA doing this? come on!!
c)if those in Congress were as interested in DOING THEIR JOB OF PROTECTING THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF THE SIZE OF THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS perhaps this would not have happened in the first place. but even though it has happened, the worst thing is the embarrassment to the government and the distrust now instilled in the people
d)what will Congress do in future, to try to ensure this doesn't happen again? that answer would be a big, fat nothing!! as soon as the heat is turned down, it will be back to 'business as usual' with those that dont want to see, still not seeing what they dont want to and not doing what they are elected to do, protect the people!!
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