Senator Lindsey Graham Defends NSA Surveillance By Arguing About Something Entirely Different

Say That Again

from the who-elected-this-guy? dept

Tue, Jun 18th 2013 11:58am — Mike Masnick

We recently mentioned that Senator Lindsey Graham said he was happy that the NSA was collecting the data on his calls, because he doesn't speak to terrorists. Of course, that's an incredibly ignorant statement in many, many ways. However, Senator Graham is continuing to make very silly statements about the NSA surveillance program. During an appearance on Meet the Press, Graham defended the program because, he explained, we should be tracking terrorists:

"I believe we should be listening to terrorists, known terrorist emails, following their emails and following their phone calls. And if they're emailing somebody and the United States or calling a number in the United States, I would like to get a judge's position to monitor that phone call," Graham said on "Meet the Press" on NBC. "If we don't do that, another attack on our homeland is very likely."

That's nice and all... but the things he discussed -- listening to terrorists, and getting info on their emails -- have nothing to do with the new programs that have been revealed. That kind of stuff was possible well before all of these new things came along. The NSA has long been able to do surveillance on such things. And, law enforcement has been able to go to a judge and get a wiretap order on phone calls. But that's not what has everyone concerned: it's the fact that this program collects data on everyone. It's not just collecting data on terrorists, and much of it doesn't require having to go to a judge to monitor specific information. Rather, broad collections of data are being pulled, so that the NSA can later go through them.

It's shameful that Senator Graham would so misrepresent what this debate is about. Either he doesn't understand it (which is horrifying) or he's deliberately misleading the public about it (which is worse).

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Filed Under: lindsey graham, nsa, nsa surveillance, terrorism

58 Comments

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silverscarcat (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:52am

Well...
He's an authoritarian, what did you expect?

He expects every citizen to give up their rights and freedoms so that the government can control their every thought and action.

But don't expect him to champion anything like universal healthcare or making sure that infrastructure or jobs are good. Nope, he wants the government to control your every thought and action, and then punish you if you get slightly out of line.

Benefits? Unless you're of the elite rich and powerful, forget it.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:03pm

Track terrorists which are mostly angry people, but please leave the rest of law abiding citizens out of your naughty snooping.
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- Zos (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:10pm
  
  Re:
  i'mm an american, and an activist, and i'm pretty fucking angry. Am i a terrorist? probably according to the NSA, yes.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:05pm

Why is MM so scared of a little criticism that he's censoring this post??

http://bit.ly/14gT9mc

Hmm...
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- S. T. Stone, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:22pm
  
  Re:
  Because he has better things to do than listen to the crack-induced ramblings of a madman, of course.
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    Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:24pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Oh, so he's not running because he's been called out for being wrong and he knows it yet doesn't want to admit it? I don't agree. Seems obvious to me that he just can't stand to be called out for his nonsense. That's why he runs every time.
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    - Dark Helmet (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:46pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      "Oh, so he's not running because he's been called out for being wrong and he knows it yet doesn't want to admit it?"
      
      No, he's not bothering with you because commenter and all around smart dude Karl in the very first post you referenced in your link SHREDDED your entire argument and attempted to explain why you were wrong. That you didn't take the point is as surprising as when my dog doesn't understand Voltaire....
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      - Baldaur Regis (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:11pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        My dog had problems with Voltaire also...turned out to be errors in translation. Try him out on Trait� sur la tol�rance in the original French.
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        Dark Helmet (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:17pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Strangely, mine fully understands "Everybody Poops". I fear Average Joe would shit all over that one too, as it were....
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  - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:25pm
    
    Re: Re:
    And why is he working so hard to prevent me from making that post unless he's really scared of it?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:27pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      AJ, I made a list of your brilliant insights, to save you some time.
      
      http://pastebin.com/iLRTa89Z
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      - Mark, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:21pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Clicked the link expecting a 404 page not found error.
        
        Was disappointed in the results.
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        Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:46pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        was that the point?
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      - Gwiz (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:05pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I think AJ deserves a new nickname after the last week or so:
        
        Milky the Clown
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      - chrisma (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:35am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I'm glad you provided a summary.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - S. T. Stone, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:12pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Maybe because he recognizes the fact that you need serious psychiatric help to get over your obsession with him.
      
      How much time did you spend writing that, anyway? And I mean researching all those comments, too. I refuse to believe you actually saved and timestamped all those comments for the sole purpose of making your comment. (Though I wouldn't really put it past you, given your worthless obsession with turning �the mockery of Mike Masnick� into your life�s work.)
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Niall (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:56am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Because maybe it's idiotic spam. "Because he's scared of you" is a wild guess which is about as accurate as claims of WMDs in Iraq.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:29pm
  
  Re:
  Harassment won't get you anywhere, maybe in front of an unsympathetic judge issuing a restraining order against you, who should know better, since allegedly you went to law school and all.
  
  Do you want a carrot horsie(aka AJ)?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:10pm

In the minds of UK/US elected officials, we are all terrorists until they say we are not.

Taken in that context, I guess his comments make a kind of sense.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:13pm

Lets send a message to the president.

Everyone pick the phone and say "Why are you listening Mr. President".

Also I would like the opportunity to ask for clarifications, what is the secret definition of "terrorist" for the US government?
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out_of_the_blue, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:18pm

"this program collects data on everyone." -- That'd be Google, then.
Simple transposition: Masnick Defends Google Surveillance By Arguing About Something Entirely Different

Instead of mentioning Google's surveillance that's embedded in his own web pages and which spies on all readers (unless you use Noscript and an extensive hosts file), Mike is running yet another trivial item on Flaming Fascist Graham.

When a spying entity big as Google is left out, it's intentional.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:34pm
  
  Re: "this program collects data on everyone." -- That'd be Google, then.
  Stop reading the tricordist(or whatever the name is) blue.
  
  Google can't force other service providers to hand them data, Google can't tap your communications, Google can't track you without getting in trouble.
  
  Also Google services are not the only ones around you can chose not to use those, except perhaps their ISP the Google Fiber, for all the rest there is a healthy competition in the market which prevents Google from being that naughty, like the government that doesn't care and don't even listen to concerns from anyone but their own.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:22pm

See the post that a certain person desperately wants to censor: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kq2na5a
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:28pm
  
  Re:
  You changed your URL... Did it get blocked already?
  
  Too bad it wasn't a rickroll...
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    Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:28pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Hi Mike!
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    - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:30pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      I'm not Mike
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      - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:46pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        God dammnit man, you should have rolled with it, be like "Hey yea I'm Mike!" and then give this guy everything he wants.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:02pm
  
  Re:
  You're really starting to creep me out and I'm not even the target of your sick game. I think I'm going to refer this to our D.A.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:27pm

Plenty more Episodes of MGH to come, folks! Stay tuned!!

The truth is coming out.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:31pm
  
  Re:
  Now you've turned into that guy that wanders the streets yelling his brilliant thoughts at people walking by.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:42pm
  
  Re:
  Are you "coming out", too? Is that what all this is? Do you have a crush on Mike?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Niall (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:58am
    
    Re: Re:
    Oh, I think it's moved beyond crush and well into stalking.
    
    Aren't there some kind of cyberbullying laws that can be thrown at this clown? Because this very much sounds like self-admitted bullying to me!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:37pm

Pretty much everything that comes out of Graham's mouth falls under Rule 14, and you've taken the bait Mike.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:43pm

It looks like all the politicians are running scared. They are dancing in every direction but what they are not doing is directly and straight forward responding. It's a sign they see this as needing severe damage control, not coming clean with the public about what has really been going on.

These answers are probably technically correct but not in the spirit of the law nor in public admissions that laws have been broken and that the Constitutional guarantees have been violated over and over.

As such this will continue to be a scandal not just with the American public but with the other world governments who see they can no longer be blind to rampant spying.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:54pm

Okay so if I'm reading the scoreboard correctly:
We have the greatest government scandal of our time, at least since Watergate and possibly worse?
Of which shreds up the constitution that the country was founded on.
Everyone involved is lying.
Anyone attempting to expose the corruption is labeled an enemy of the state and is tried to disappear.
The roots of the corruption sink deeper than anyone can possibly know.
It's global.
It effects everybody in America and possibly more.

So how, may I ask, are we allowing this to continue? We know what the end result is going to be if it does. We're going to end up in the future history books and not in the good way.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:03pm
  
  Re:
  Release the Kraken!
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  - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:02pm
    
    Re: Re:
    That's a terrible idea. They'll just claim the kraken is a terrorist and use it to justify even more unconstitutional agendas.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:44pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      No it isn't. No they won't. Release it! DO IT!
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:12pm
  
  Re:
  It's 2001-2006 all over again.
  
  The government wants (needs) for everyone to be scred again. We got too used to the idea that the odds of being a part of a terror attack are so infinitesimally small, that it would NEVER justify the degree to which we have been spied on.
  
  Graham's comments are just typical politician double-speak: don't directly answer anything. What the hell does he care anyways? Aren't the members of Congress exempt from theis program?
  
  His opinion on it, in my less-than humble opinion, is about as worthless as the answers from those in charge of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:11pm

as has been said before, these people dont deserve to be in the positions they are, but given the lack of just about everything, there probably isn't much else they could do except be a politician. let's face it, the only qualifications needed are the abilities to lie convincingly, completely and continuously!�
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:14pm

Zee homeland must be protected!

Die Heimat gesch�tzt werden m�ssen!
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- DCX2, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:34pm
  
  Re:
  I hate that phrase. "Homeland". Sets off the creepy alarm bells like a scruffy man in a trench coat at a toddler beauty pageant.
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  - Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:36pm
    
    Re: Re:
    It makes me think of the TV show starring Claire Danes and Damien Lewis :-P
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  - John Fenderson (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:55pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Yeah, me too. Right after 9/11, there were three things that sent chills up my spine and made me fear for my country:
    
    When Bush said "if you're not with us, you're against us."
    
    When Ari Fleischer said that Americans have to "watch what we say"
    
    When they used the word "homeland" in the name of their new internal security agency.
    
    Those three things, it turns out, were accurate harbingers of what was to come.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:20pm

I've had it with this non-answer bullshit!
You know, all I'd like to hear JUST ONCE is an honest answer to a question. EVERYTHING we get from ALL levels of government is half-truths, non-answers, or "the least untruthful" answer to ANY question concerning this.

Members of Congress, if ANY of you have ANY integrity whatsoever, demand a hearing and the FIRST person who gives one of these bullshit non-answers gets fired on the spot. That should set the proper tone for the rest of the hearing...

This is getting ridiculous and it's insulting to even the most simple-minded of your constituents (OOTB, AJ, bob, horse-shit, and even the jerkoff who's so infatuated with milk). It's not as if Graham DIDN'T understand the question...if it is, then this dipshit needs to be fired, on the spot.

People like this have no place running a McDonalds, let alone Congress.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:23pm

Senator Lindsey Graham is correct. He doesn't talk to terrorist...that John McCain's job.
(and he does it in person so the NSA can't listen to him)
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- DCX2, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:34pm
  
  Re:
  I thought that was Peter King
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  - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:41pm
    
    Re: Re:
    They rotate on-call with Feinstein.
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Irving, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:39pm

As with everything, Americans will whine and complain for a while, then get bored and let it go.
Don't be surprised if the world gets fed up with your apathy and does something about your government for you.
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Harlan Quinn, 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:57pm

What happens if a terrorist leaves a message on his phone?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:45pm

Don't miss the post that Mike is desperate to censor: http://is.gd/5gjxqa

Why's he so scared of dissenting views? Hmm...
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:47pm

Graham is an asshat rino, fuck him.

Rand Paul 2016
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- Niall (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:59am
  
  Re:
  Ooo, Paulbot spam as well as AJ-froth.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:38pm

See the link that Mike is desperate to censor: http://rdd.me/e9cd9hqe

Mr. Freedom hates that his constituents even know this link exists.

More to come!
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 8:48pm
  
  Re:
  Hello, this is a private site. As a result of its status, you do not have a right to post anything and expect it to stand. Just like you do not have the right to stand in my yard and say whatever you like.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- techflaws (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 4:00am
  
  Re:
  Enjoy your tiny echo chamber, LOL!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:34pm

See the post that over 200 people on TD have seen. See the post that mike desperately doesn't want anyone to see. He's so desperate to hide this that he's blocking IPs, keywords, titles, and links.

Mike hates this post so much that he's going out of his way to censor it: http://tr.im/44w44

the next edition will be out very soon.

How hard will he work to hide that from you too?
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- Niall (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 4:01am
  
  Re:
  Judging by the amount of times you inanely spam each and every thread irrelevantly, not in the slightest. Obviously youe man-crush isn't returned, and you are beneath notice.
  
  The only downside to your obsession is that I may stop bothering to show pinked-out comments and miss some of OotB's slightly more lucid rants.
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