NYPD Commissioner Blasts NSA Secret Monitoring For Being Secret

from the half-right dept

Tue, Jun 18th 2013 2:29pm — Timothy Geigner

In the wake of the NSA scandal leaks, there have been several examples of government officials and law enforcement coming out to state both that the program is necessary and that its existence ought never have been revealed. Those who espouse the latter often indicate that, as a result, Edward Snowden is some measure of a traitor, and in some cases so are members of the press that reported on the revelations. Not all former and current government folks are in that camp, of course, but those that are not typically argue the polar opposite: that the NSA program is either unconstitutional or unnecessary. Those are sentiments I happen to agree with, but there is a refreshingly original third course of thought.

That comes from NYPD police commissioner Ray Kelly, who has managed to blast the secret NSA program...but only for being secret.

“I don’t think it ever should have been made secret,” Kelly said yesterday, breaking ranks with other US law-enforcement officials. “I think the American public can accept the fact if you tell them that every time you pick up the phone, it’s going to be recorded and it goes to the government. I think the public can understand that. I see no reason why that program was placed in the secret category. Secondly, I think if you listen to Snowden, he indicates that there’s some sort of malfeasance, people . . . sitting around and watching the data. So I think the question is: What sort of oversight is there inside the [National Security Agency] to prevent that abuse, if it’s taking place?”

Now, the easy reaction to this is to write off Kelly's opinion that the majority of Americans would be okay with data surveillance as long as we were well informed about it. After all, stop and frisk is fairly above board, and people still hate it. But the point is an important one with real implications on how democracy is supposed to work versus how it actually does work in America today.

By that I mean whether secretive programs run by the government that impact the majority or all of Americans can be undertaken without the consent of the governed. Step back a moment from Kelly's assertion that the public would be on board with the program if we had known about it all along. Isn't the better point to be taken from his statement that we should at least have been given the opportunity to find out? As a member of a representative democracy, if my fellow Americans were indeed informed and signed off on this program, I have to accept it, whatever my dissenting views. If the government was above board on the checks and balances in the program, they might have a good PR case. But that process was never given a chance to incubate. Instead, broadly worded, vague legislation birthed secretive policies, subject to secretive committees and secretive courts, and it was only by the providence of a humanitarian leaker that the public had any inkling of what was going on. That isn't how the American concept is supposed to function.

And now we'll never know whether Kelly is right or not, because the experiment that could have occurred has been foiled. Any complacency by the public now can be written off as apathy born of anger and mistrust. Any dissent is tainted by the same as a result of the secrecy of the program. The method by which the NSA spy program was both initiated, continued, and finally revealed is almost a perfect counter example to the democratic process. I fear that our founding fathers, those men of the enlightenment so often referenced by the career politicians of the day, would be calling for revolution once more.

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Filed Under: nsa, nsa surveillance, nypd, ray kelly, secrecy, transparency

27 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:44pm

Don't miss the post that Mike is desperate to censor: http://is.gd/5gjxqa

Why's he so scared of dissenting views? Hmm...
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:52pm

Beyond the Pale
When the NYPD says you've gone too far, you've definitely gone too far.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:55pm

Re:
Really? Who cares why Mike hates you!
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DCX2, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:59pm

I kinda agree.
I look at surveillance like drones. It's going to happen. In fact, it's already happening. We can't stop it. So, let's try to make some good out of it.

I think anyone should have the right to petition a court for information from the NSA database. Imagine the ramifications. You want to prove your spouse was having an affair? Get a warrant for the content of that sneaky phone call they made during your honeymoon, and use it as evidence of fault in your divorce proceedings.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:00pm

Re:
You sure are chatty for someone who's been gagged.

Lying scumbag.
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TheLastCzarnian (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:10pm

Re:
I read some of your rant at your link and if I were you, AC, I would seek counceling.
There are some seriously odd things going on in your head. Something you should work out with a trained professional.

This isn't a flame. I'm not kidding.

Remember: the only people who are positive they are sane are the crazy ones.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:19pm

Re: Took the time to read your stuff
You cited law but didn't cite any interpretations or real world examples so it was rather a pointless exercise. I know Mike can fan the flames but he is pretty level headed. He does make mistakes from time to time. If you have scoured all of Techdirt to show us the worst "mikey" has to offer I am very unimpressed.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:35pm

It's so cute how the sockpuppets come out to refute it, but no one can actually address the merits. Don't miss the link that Mike so desperately wants you not to see: http://rdd.me/e9cd9hqe
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:01pm

Re:
To address the merits would require merits.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:08pm

What do certain people not want you to see?

This! http://v.gd/3K4FAn

So scared of the truth! It's totally awesome!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:19pm

That name is familiar, wasn't him blasting others from trying to make the NYPD more transparent?

Quote:
Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly have each bristled at the suggestion of an independent monitor throughout the course of the 2-1/2-month trial, which ended in May. They cite the "stop and frisk" policy as instrumental in driving down the city's crime rate.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-surprise-move-wades-nypd-stop-frisk-lawsuit-220935492.html

htt p://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bloomberg_slams_obama_support_frisk_uGFXee9nBvXZJfCcFhNy6K
http://o nline.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323734304578542992651912484.html

Gotta love politics, Raymond there is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons(payback).
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osama'; drop table NSA_SECRETS; --, 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:24pm

Re: Beyond the Pale
That's hilarious! But very true.
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Anonymous, 18 Jun 2013 @ 4:42pm

F*** the NSA and the NYPD.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 5:08pm

My irony meter exploded.

NYPD - pretty sure they ran secret covert ops in places well outside of NY to watch brown people because brown people are terrorists.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 6:17pm

Re:
"What do certain people not want you to see?"

Local mom publishes free facelift secrets that has angered doctors!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 6:21pm

I agree but...
Reality is that had this been transparent from the start and people had accepted it it would have been completely pointless as anyone who accepted it would be completely not the people they would be worried about. Lemmings are not who they are interested in. They are interested in two groups of people. Those who are the actual threats they claim to be after and those that are only a threat to their power because they see they believe in the Constitution and see the abuse for what it is. Both of the last two groups would quickly move to route around their abilities to gather useful information just as they have begun to now.
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Disgusted, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:20pm

I agree it's getting close to the time for revolution. However, we need to keep in mind that this government has many somewhat less than savory weapons at it's disposal. Weapons such as chemical and tactical nukes which, I'm afraid, if the government were sufficiently threatened, they would not hesitate to use.
.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:22pm

See the post that mike is so scared of that he's blocking IP addresses, keywords, and links...

http://tr.im/44w44

Why is mike such a hardcore censor? I thought he hated censors??

Hmm..
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:25pm

Episode 2 is in the works.

You can bet that Mike will be working extra hard to censor it.

why is he so scared of criticism? why is he working so hard to censor me??

You decide.

stay tuned!!
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ahow628 (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:32pm

Above board?
After all, stop and frisk is fairly above board, and people still hate it.

Huh? Stop and frisk is above board? Wasn't it just a big racist thing where they would find pot? Didn't it find guns at a lower rate than regular police work?

Was there a typo in that sentence?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 9:49pm

internment was legal and public
just because a government policy is public and approved by the public at the time does not make it right nor constitutional.
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Beta (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:19pm

where's the camera?
�I think the American public can accept the fact if you tell them that every time you pick up the phone, it�s going to be recorded and it goes to the government."

In the America I grew up in, this would have been a bad joke, and a Police Commissioner who said this in earnest into a live microphone would've been out of a job within days. What the hell is going on?
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John Doe, 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:57am

I hope he is wrong
I think the American public can accept the fact if you tell them that every time you pick up the phone, it�s going to be recorded and it goes to the government.

I certainly hope the American public would not be ok with this. I certainly am not.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2013 @ 4:26am

apart from all the obvious things said in the article, something that really frightens me is that there are people in extremely powerful positions, that can make a huge difference to the outcome of all manner of things that actually have the opinion that it is fine, it is ok, to have these secretive policies, subject to secretive committees and secretive courts! well, i say 'it isn't ok'! they should not have this attitude! we live in what is supposed to be 'a democracy', we are supposed to be and be entitled to be free and have privacy. what has happened here has destroyed that. it has removed all remnants of trust that the government is doing it's job in protecting the nation and the people. in actual fact, it is making us fear the government! that is how it was years ago in Germany when the world went to war to stop that government and that attitude. regardless of what has happened to change the minds of the leaders, there is no excuse for this sort of treatment. surely it's better to live a perhaps shorter, happier life, but free, than a possible longer life under fear of constant surveillance and perhaps worse, isn't it?
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Michael, 19 Jun 2013 @ 4:33am

Re: Above board?
Wasn't it just a big racist thing where they would find pot?

Pretty much, but we knew it was happening. He is referring to it as above board because it was not initiated by pulled each police officer aside and whispering in their ear "psst. we are going to have a policy of stopping and frisking anyone you want without giving a reason. don't tell anyone, just start doing it."
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ahow628 (profile), 20 Jun 2013 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Above board?
Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

I still guess I would construe "above board" to be an action that is fulfilling its purpose, which it seems stop and frisk was not.
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Click Whisperer, 20 Jun 2013 @ 2:14pm

Kelly may be correct - cat's out of the bad
Read what I have to say about the fact that the NSA data collection is public knowledge.

Leverage NSA Secrets for Profit & Pay Off National Debt in Months and let me know what you think.
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