Government Argues Bradley Manning Was An Anarchist, As Case Closes

from the the-lies-your-government-spreads dept

Fri, Jul 26th 2013 4:22am — Mike Masnick

We haven't been covering the day to day of the Bradley Manning trial, though it has been interesting (and frustrating) to follow. However, in its closing argument, it appears that the government is trying to smear Bradley Manning and his whistleblowing every possible way:

After more than four and a half hours of proceedings, the government wrapped up its closing argument in the trial of Pfc. Bradley Manning, the soldier being prosecuted for disclosing information to WikiLeaks. Prosecutors called him an “anarchist,” a “hacker,” and a “traitor” before the argument was over.

Really? All three claims are flat out ridiculous. From the very beginning Manning was quite clear in his motives, which were about making sure the American public was better informed. The bogus traitor claims have been mentioned before, and seem to have no basis in reality. But the anarchy one is a new one. As Kevin Gosztola explains:

Quoting chat logs between hacker and government informant Adrian Lamo and Manning, Major Ashden Fein said that he expected “worldwide anarchy” would occur after releasing the diplomatic cables and these were not the “words of a humanist but the words of an anarchist.” He also said he was a “hacker” and not a humanist.

Of course, if you read the actual chat logs and put the statement back in context you realize it's not the words of an anarchist at all. That's just some boasting about how releasing these files will have a major impact. But, as he immediately explains in the following statements, his goal is to create change and stop the US government from lying. He notes that releasing these documents "might actually change something" in how the US goes about its business. He's not talking about anarchy, he's talking about actually having a representative government that doesn't lie and deceive all the time.

Of course, the big claim that the government is trying to make is that Manning knowingly "aided the enemy":

For the “aiding the enemy” charge, which if convicted could lead to maximum sentence of life in prison, Fein argued that Manning had deliberately transmitted the “Collateral Murder” video, certain State Department information and military incident reports from Iraq and Afghanistan.

But how is revealing factual information about the US military screwing up and then trying to cover it up "aiding the enemy." It seems like, once again, that's only true if "the enemy" is the American public and you have information you want to hide from them. In fact, the government appears to argue that any release of information to the public can be seen as "aiding the enemy"

“The public included the enemy and he knew that as an intelligence analyst,” the government stated. The government added that this was not public data. It was US government information that Manning was trained to use.

But, under that argument any journalist or any person who publishes anything that might make Al Qaeda happy is "aiding the enemy." That's crazy.

Manning's defense will give its closing argument on Friday, and then... we wait for the judge to decide.

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Filed Under: anarchist, bradley manning, hacker, trial
Companies: wikileaks

72 Comments

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RyanNerd (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:38am

King George III or worse
Sometimes I wonder if we are repeating the past not just at the time prior to the American Revolution. But lately it feels more like the dark ages and the times of the crusades.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:42am

Motives aside, Messrs. Manning and Snowden, agree with it or not, were under a firm legal requirement to hold information in the strictest of confidence. Some of what each did may be viewed as noble, but it was not their job to assign themselves a title of nobility. There have always been ways, including ways wholly independent of a federal agency, to provide information to others that one sincerely feels must be reported to others. Sending reams of disparate, unrelated, un-redacted, un-reviewed, etc. of confidential information to third parties having motivations that may be inimical to the security interests of the United States is not one of them.

Manning will almost certainly end up with a long address at a Club-Fed, and Snowden will likewise either join him or forever be banished to a locale far removed from the United States.

I am not in the slightest condoning what the information has revealed about certain activities by the US (much of which as abhorrent), but I certainly cannot condone individuals taking it upon themselves to disclose those activities, and a whole lot more that is legitimate, using means that violate their oaths of office and expose truly sensitive information to the detriment of US national security.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:49am

Re:
but I certainly cannot condone individuals taking it upon themselves to disclose those activities,

Given an official secrets act, and it abuses by government, it is up to individuals to make information available to the public despite it being against any agreements that they have signed. If no Individual comes forward then the government can do almost anything that it wants to do. Making the penalties for revealing what the government is up to draconian is how tyrants maintain power.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:57am

why wait until Friday? the judge has already made up her mind (or more to the point, had it made up for her by certain high ranking officials in the government, as well as the armed forces!)! all she is going to do is ignore everything that was intended and substitute those things for what the government want in in order to get a 'guilty verdict'! it is on par with the way the government works in the USA now and it is shameful!! anyone that thinks for even a second that Manning's aim was to do anything except enlighten the public to the atrocities the US armed forces had carried out (and remember, this isn't the first war that it's happened in!) has something wrong with them!!
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Richard (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 4:59am

Re: King George III or worse
Stop knocking the dark ages - they weren't as dark as you might suppose.

Remember that the technology of repression was very limited then. Plus, you are aware of a number of nasty incidents from those times - but you forget that the so called "dark ages" lasted about 700 years. 700 years worth of modern oppression would look a lot worse!
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:07am

Re: Re:
The point I was trying to make is that there are means available to do so other than work the matter up the chain of command, an approach that in far too many instances virtually all would agree would be DOA, unwelcome, and leave the discloser open to retaliation. Messrs. Manning and Snowden could have thusly proceeded, but for reasons know only to them chose to proceed otherwise.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:12am

Re:
Sending reams of disparate, unrelated, un-redacted, un-reviewed, etc. of confidential information to third parties having motivations that may be inimical to the security interests of the United States is not one of them.

the items both of these men have released have been redacted and reviewed. Now that you know this does you opinion change?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:16am

Re: Re: King George III or worse
Yes, there are some wacky folks who claim the dark ages did not occur. I suppose they should be called Dark Age Deniers.

Anyway - I have also read that there was a mini ice age at the time caused by volcanism and it has been postulated that this could cause the atmosphere to be full of debris for many years. Ergo, dark. In support of this hypothesis, it has been pointed out that paintings from that era depict the sky to be more red than what we consider to be normal.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:19am

Re:
"... were under a firm legal requirement to hold information in the strictest of confidence"

I'm sure those on trial at Nuremberg after the war said similar things in their defense.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:20am

Re:
So ... kangaroo court then
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Paul Nash, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:22am

Salem witch-hunt all over again
History has a way of repeating itself ...
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:33am

It's sad that so many years after Gandhi most people still believe "anarchist" and "humanist" are somehow mutually exclusive terms.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:48am

When did it become a crime to be an anarchist?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:53am

Re:
One problem is that anarchist has come to mean a violent revolutionary who wants a break down in law and order so that they and their supporters can become the rulers of society.
Occupy Sandy on the other hand, like various other rescue and support efforts that co-ordinated their efforts using the Internet were anarchies in action.
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RyanNerd (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:59am

Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
Salem Witch Hunt 2.0
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dennis deems (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 6:20am

Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_%28historiography%29

Your condescending attitude is offensive. And you're wrong.
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dennis deems (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 6:21am

Re: Re: Re:
Do you have the slightest idea how incredibly, insufferably pompous you sound?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re:
If you had been paying attention, you would know that Manning did try to take his concerns up with his superiors, and he was rebuffed.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 6:55am

Is it wrong that, in my mind, Obama is now in the same position as Palpatine was in Star Wars?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 6:58am

Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
It would be stupid to deny a time-period occured. You are throwing a major strawman up there since it is pretty clear that it is not his point...

Dark Ages was amazing for vikings and arabs. What was dark about these times were the lack of literature and culture since religion became the real educational center later on. Today most historians would avoid the title since it is not even true in the sense of "unknown" anymore! It might be "little studied", but the title dark ages as description of early middle ages is ignorant.
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equireLLC, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:00am

So What?
"Government Argues Bradley Manning Was An Anarchist"

Is there a new law against being an anarchist? I thought in America you could hold any beliefs you wanted including being socialist, communist, racist, anything. Its only actions that laws are supposed to address, not beliefs.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:01am

Re: King George III or worse
"But lately it feels more like the dark ages and the times of the crusades."

If by lately you mean that last 12 years then I agree.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:01am

Hey if we ignore the constitution everywhere else, then why not ignore the constitution's definition of treason to? Lets ignore that pesky 2 witness requirement.
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David, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:12am

Anyone who refuses to go along with the system is either branded an anarchist or an extremist. Not everyone of ua wears a mask and causes violence. Mostof us do agree tthough that if the system is not torndown to nothing and rebuilt things will continue as they are .
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:24am

�The public included the enemy and he knew that as an intelligence analyst,� the government stated.

Amazing, the government actually admitted the truth for once. That statement should be put on memes, t-shirt, and billboards and shouted as widely as possible.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:37am

Re:
Yes, it's wrong, because the 3 prequel movies are abominations that are best forgotten.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:44am

Re: Re: Re:
Oh, you mean like Thomas Drake?
"I differed as a whistleblower to Snowden only in this respect: in accordance with the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, I took my concerns up within the chain of command, to the very highest levels at the NSA, and then to Congress and the Department of Defense. I understand why Snowden has taken his course of action, because he's been following this for years: he's seen what's happened to other whistleblowers like me.

By following protocol, you get flagged � just for raising issues. You're identified as someone they don't like, someone not to be trusted. I was exposed early on because I was a material witness for two 9/11 congressional investigations. In closed testimony, I told them everything I knew � about Stellar Wind, billions of dollars in fraud, waste and abuse, and the critical intelligence, which the NSA had but did not disclose to other agencies, preventing vital action against known threats. If that intelligence had been shared, it may very well have prevented 9/11."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-24/whistleblower-praises-edward-snowdens-magnificent/4777 188

Like William Binney?
"William Binney: We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or � we couldn't get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general's office didn't pay any attention to it. And all of the efforts we made just produced no change whatsoever. All it did was continue to get worse and expand." http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtabl e/2428809/

Or J. Kirk Wiebe?
"Thomas Drake and J. Kirk Wiebe on Snowden:

(...)
Wiebe: Well, I don't want anyone to think that he had an alternative. No one should (think that). There is no path for intelligence-community whistle-blowers who know wrong is being done. There is none. It's a toss of the coin, and the odds are you are going to be hammered."
http://gawker.com/previous-nsa-whistleblowers-say-snowden-had-no-alterna-513763067
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Liz (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:11am

Re: Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
Does he weigh as much as a duck?
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Liz (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:17am

Re:
In the 1940s and 50s IIRC. Better known as the McCarthy era. The threat of Nazism in the United States during WWII and the post-war communist scare had the Government trying to pass laws to criminalize specific acts of political activity.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
Ordeal of water. That is a pretty fine one!
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Roland, 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:51am

aiding the enemy
This charge of 'aiding the enemy' might make some sense if the US Govt just goes ahead and publicly acknowledges that its biggest enemy right now IMHO is the American public. And if they did that, they would probably be right. Given the govt we have, I want a whole lot less of it. Yes, that would include no-govt/anarchy.
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Greevar (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 8:58am

Re: So What?
I was going to say the same thing. Why is being an anarchist a bad thing? They're just trying to wave the bloody shirt on him and turn mindless sheep against him. These morons must still think that anarchy is synonymous with chaos. It's not. Anarchy is merely the absence of coercive authority. That means that in an anarchistic society, there are no coercive forces imposed by humankind, just voluntary participation.
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Greevar (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:00am

Re: aiding the enemy
At least in anarchy, you don't have to deal with coercive concepts like private property. The way it is now, corporations own everything under the sun, including us.
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John Fenderson (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:07am

The hills echoed with it
Prosecutors called him an �anarchist,� a �hacker,� and a �traitor� before the argument was over.

And all across the land, the real anarchists, hackers, and traitors burst out with uncontrollable belly laughs.
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John Fenderson (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:13am

Re: Re: Re:
The point I was trying to make is that there are means available to do so other than work the matter up the chain of command

And what would those be? The ones that are always touted don't work.
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:28am

Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
According to Merriam-Webster, the two definitions the word traitor are:

1. one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2. one who commits treason

Now Manning is obviously a traitor according to the first definition (he betrayed the trust of the US government, who gave him clearance to access the info that he leaked). Personally I'm a little iffy on whether he falls under the second definition, but that's just my opinion on that.

But seriously, anarchist?

Did someone resurrect a zombified McCarthy while I wasn't looking?

Manning may be a traitor by definition, but a hacker and anarchist he is not.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:30am

The Irony, the government is claiming that someone is an anarchist for exposing its anarchic behavior.
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Anonymous?, 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:36am

Aiding Enemy
Government has been aiding and "sleeping with enemies" for years. That also includes aiding enemies by eroding OUR freedoms. This is what enemy hated about us in the first place: our way of life and freedoms.
Our government is becoming our own domestic enemy.
I guess it would only make sense to call Manning anarchist if he was trying to help us people who became enemies with their own government.
What also becomes more clear is lawless state.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 9:52am

Re:
"There have always been ways, including ways wholly independent of a federal agency, to provide information to others that one sincerely feels must be reported to others."

Generally there hasn't been and if you watch the Snowden interview he describes the atrocious actions as just another day at the office and they are told to just keep doing their jobs. Not only that but there is torture and persecution waiting for those that come forward, and that right in front of your face right now with snowden and manning.

"Sending reams of disparate, unrelated, un-redacted, un-reviewed, etc. of confidential information to third parties having motivations that may be inimical to the security interests of the United States is not one of them."

This is about reporting crimes against humanity, alerting the public to whats really happening (War crimes) this is stuff that never would have made it anywhere except someones army intelligence bank vault of other black ops goodies. Manning could have held back some intel without a doubt but where is the trial for War Crimes. Where is the trial against the real criminals. As always never happens.

"Snowden will likewise either join him or forever be banished to a locale far removed from the United States."

and that is a bad thing how? Your country wants to chase down one of their own citizens for telling the world that the US is laughing while violating its on constitution and spying on the whole world. Every human on this planet has a right to privacy including US citizens and it is being violated.

These are the real issues that no one wants to discuss. Its not Manning, its not Snowden its what information they gave us that no one seems to want to talk about. Your post reads like a fox news report.
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art guerrilla (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
thank you, well done...
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
I would say 3.0. Searching for communists was the 2.0 era.
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art guerrilla (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:16am

Re: Re:
you know what drives a lot of this shit ? ? ?
social expectations of their tribe...

(hint: if you are a judge/etc, WE 99% are NOT part of THEIR tribe; we are 'the others', the barbarians at the gate...)

and this works at all levels of society, i recently had the dubious honor of corresponding for a couple back and forths with the editor?/manager? of a fairly well known news aggregator (sp?) website, that is definitely of the progressive side of the great divide...

it was IMPOSSIBLE to make her understand that censorship is a bad thing; she thinks of it as a 'good thing' because it stops 'yucky' speech...

she refused to see that -a la my boy noam chomsky- you HAVE TO allow ALL speech if you are a free speech advocate, otherwise you are not for free speech...

in pondering that sad state, it occurred to me that she and her buds have latched onto the (idiotic) concept of 'hate speech' as being one of the ultimate sins against society (it isn't), and that ANYTHING / EVERYTHING which eliminates 'hate speech' is -by definition- a 'good thing'...

skipping totally over whether there are actual -you know- principles involved, or that the ends does NOT justify the means, she was fixated on eliminating 'hate speech' to the detriment of society, and all our rights...

she has ZERO self-awareness that this AUTHORITARIAN impulse IS EXACTLY what drives the fascist decision-making process of our kongresskritters, et al...

in other words: its okay if *i'm* an authoritarian, 'cause i'm a 'good' authoritarian oppressing you for 'good'reasons, using 'good' means to repress you for a 'good' end...

she was clueless, and was going to remain that way; because that is how her little circle-jerk 'thought' (sic), and i know she damn sure didn't want to alienate her friends by going against the grain, NO MATTER HOW CORRECT AND JUST that oppositional stance was...

human nature...
yet another reason i like dogs more than people...
(besides, people you don't know generally don't like you to scratch behind their ears...)

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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art guerrilla (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:20am

Re: Re:
actually, way before that, in amerika...

sacco and vanzetti (sp?) were essentially persecuted because the were anarchists...
the unconstitutional palmer raids (how anslinger and hoover made their bones)
etc, etc, etc...

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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art guerrilla (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:25am

Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
who betrayed whom ? ? ?

i contend it is THE GUMMINT and its leaders who betrayed the constitution and the amerikan people WA-A-A-A-Y before Bradley Manning called them out for THEIR betrayal...

HE WAS THE ONE LOYAL TO HIS OATH AND ACTING TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, not those scumbag, traitorous, posturing, lying, hypocritical, human-shaped piles of shit we call our 'leaders'...

Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden, Barrett Brown, John Kiriakou, etc, etc, etc, ARE ALL WELCOME at my house; i would be HONORED to have them as guests...

kongresskritters, etc ? ? ?
they better not get within spitting distance of me...

(and when i say 'spitting', i mean as in 'roasted on a spit'...)

art guerrilla
aka ann archy

eof
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John Fenderson (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:35am

Re: Re: Re:
Well said, and completely accurate.
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art guerrilla (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:38am

Re:
i get your point, but technically speaking -as others have tried to say as well- 'anarchy' does NOT mean 'chaos' and 'terrorism' as mainstream pukes would have you believe...

but words have no meaning anymore, it is ONLY what Empire *says* a word means that has any impact...

how terrifying to see this slow-motion train wreck of fascism unfolding before our eyes; 1984's every prediction coming to pass as we look on in dumbstruck horror: newspeak, doublethink, permanent war on faceless enemies, etc, etc, etc...

amerika as shining beacon on the hill ? ? ?
more like sauron's all-seeing eye searching to destroy us all...

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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John Fenderson (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:39am

Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
But this is in a court of law, and a court of law does not use Merrian-Webster to define their terms. A traitor is someone who committed treason. Treason, in court, is a legal term defined by the Constitution, and nothing that Manning did falls inside that definition.

So, by definition, Manning is not a traitor.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:39am

Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
Well, the Dark Ages weren't dark because bad things happened, but because the chronicle from the time are for shit.

That's not to deny that they were bad (institutionalized oppression, terrible medicine, rampant superstition, plagues, etc.) just that it's not the reason they were dark.
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DOlz (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:40am

Let's see, the government was (and is) changing the meaning of laws, words, and ignoring the parts of the Constitution that got in their way. Bradley Manning exposed these activities to help restore the rule of law in this country. And he's the anarchist?
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Donglebert the Unintelligible, 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:41am

Re: King George III or worse
Bollocks. I missed the first 2 movies.
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That One Guy (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:41am

Re: Re: Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
If it was only version 3.0...

-Communists
-Those of Chinese/Japanese descent or appearance during WW2
-Those of middle eastern descent or appearance post-9/11
-Probably a number of other panics/witch hunts I'm forgetting offhand.
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Ninja (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:44am

Look! Communist!
As if being an anarchist is an issue in itself. Or is he not free under the constitution to have any political inclination?
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Uriel-238 (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:50am

Technically, we're all "Traitors"
If treason includes criticism of and resistance to the government.

Manning and Snowden committed exactly the kind of treason that our Constitutional framers advocated, and that Madison and Jefferson insisted we have a duty to act if we want to preserve our liberties.

Treason against tyrants is obedience to God, according to Jefferson.

Manning and Snowden both risked their life, and Manning may be kept in perpetual misery for his crimes. I'm sure he'd rather not give his one life to his country, but this is often how it goes down for such patriots, which is a reason it takes such bravery, or such naivety, to act. Scapegoats are by definition often sacrificed.

If we are compelled to storm the Bastille, I hope we do so soon, that Manning doesn't have to suffer any longer than is necessary.
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Oblate (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 10:54am

Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
> Now Manning is obviously a traitor according to the first definition

Only in the same sense that a confidant of a criminal, who turns the criminal in to the police, could be considered a traitor. He's a traitor to criminals, that's how the prosecutor should have phrased it.

His obligation/duty were to the American people, not to a subset of government employees.
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Andrew D. Todd, 26 Jul 2013 @ 11:28am

A Judge and Jury of Rapists
Well, to refresh our memory, Bradley Manning's accusers are factually guilty of operating child-brothels. The relevant WikiLeaks papers amount to confessions.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101208/00221812176/so-wikileaks-is-evil-releasing -documents-dyncorp-gets-pass-pimping-young-boys-to-afghan-cops.shtml

This kind of thing is generally considered a Crime Against Humanity, by the standards of the Nuremberg Tribunal. In view of this, I don't see the need for fine distinctions, any more than I would need to make fine distinctions about a Nazi "People's Court."
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
1. one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty

Bolded for emphasis.

Manning is a traitor in the sense that he betrayed the trust of his superior officers/the government as a whole when he went and handed over all those classified diplomatic cables to Wikileaks. Whether the cables should have been classified or not is irrelevant now.

The point is, the government trusted Manning enough to grant him a TS/SCI [Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information]-grade security clearance, which gave him access to a cubic shit-ton of classified intel back in Jan. 2008.

What you have to realize that when the government grants someone a security clearance, that clearance sticks with you for the rest of your life. That means the government has just placed quite a bit of trust [and faith] in that person, and I assume[more like hope in all honesty] that the level of trust required for someone to get a TS/SCI security clearance is even higher.

Long and short of it, Bradley Manning betrayed the government's trust. Therefore, by [normal] definition, he is a traitor.

However, as far as things are concerned in the legal sense, whether Manning is a traitor [someone who committed treason] in the eyes of the court, that remains to be seen.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 12:11pm

Re:
The government behaviour is based on coercion, and therefore far from Anarchic. It is actually at the other end of the political control spectrum from anarchy, in that it is totalitarian, do what we say without argument..
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Bergman (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 12:17pm

Re:
Knowing that someone has broken the law and remaining silent about it makes you an accomplice, subject to nearly the same length of prison sentence the criminal is.

Having signed a contract to remain quiet about what you see does not shield you from being convicted as an accomplice if you discover evidence of a crime or directly witness one.

Military law makes this very, very clear. A soldier who obeys an illegal order is just as guilty as one who committed the same crime without being ordered to do it -- Obeying an illegal order leads to a court martial.

An official secrets act does not and cannot compel personnel to ignore criminal activity. Covering up a mistake rather than following proper procedures is a criminal act.
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Bergman (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 12:25pm

Re: Salem witch-hunt all over again
I wonder, does Obama float if you drop him into deep water?
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Bergman (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 12:28pm

Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
The government of the United States exists of the People, by the People and for the People.

How can informing those People of how their representatives are lying to them be treason?
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Richard (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
Dark Ages was amazing for vikings and arabs.

Not to mention Byzantium....
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Richard (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 1:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
That's not to deny that they were bad (institutionalized oppression, terrible medicine, rampant superstition, plagues,

Institutionalised oppression - not really - that's more 1930s-40s

Terrible medicine - true (relatively) of every era before the present.

Rampant superstition - no worse than in the preceding (classical) era.

Plagues - not really - that happened later - in the 14th century.

Factor in a lower population density and you will see that they were not so bad - and certainly better than the slums of many 3rd world cities today.
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Richard (profile), 26 Jul 2013 @ 1:59pm

Re:
Motives aside, Messrs. Manning and Snowden, agree with it or not, were under a firm legal requirement to hold information in the strictest of confidence.

In other words you expect them to obey orders.

However Nuremberg Principle IV states:

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
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Anonymous, 26 Jul 2013 @ 2:35pm

Re: The hills echoed with it
I am an anarchist...but not an antichrist. God bless Bradley Manning!
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Anonymous, 26 Jul 2013 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re: Technically speaking, he IS a traitor
Government has NEVER been of, by, and for the people.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:09pm

Re:
The point I was trying to make is that there are means available to do so

name one.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
"Institutionalised oppression - not really - that's more 1930s-40s"

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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Condescending Prick, 26 Jul 2013 @ 5:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
Wow - seems I hit a nerve, lol. You've certainly got me pegged haven't you.

Thanks for the Wikipedia link, I'm such a noob I would never have found that.

I am wrong - that makes me sooo sad. Not sure what I'm wrong about - probably everything - let me guess.
1) nobody denies the dark ages happened, they just claim it was not all that dark really.
2) I did not read about a mini ice age - or there was no such thing, not sure which
3) There was never a scientific claim that the mini ice age was caused by volcanism
4) It has never been postulated that volcanism might cause the atmosphere to be full of debris for many years
5) If the atmosphere were full of debris it would not cause less light to reach the earth surface
6) Painting in the era do not have unusually red skies
7) Red skies are normal (well there is a lot of pollution)

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, I'm sure I did.
Hopefully this response was condescending enough for you, if not I can try harder next time - k?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:48pm

Re: Re:
When the government breaks international law (think collateral murder) isn't that government anarchy? The government has no rules with witch to follow and they don't want their anarchic behavior being exposed.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jul 2013 @ 7:49pm

Re: Re: Re:
with which *
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Votre (profile), 27 Jul 2013 @ 5:43am

What got left out
The left out charges for being a kiddie porn addict, drug dealer, dog abuser, movie and music pirate, jaywalker, domestic terrorist, library book stealer, and disturber of the peace...wtf?

They're trying to let this guy off easy.
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Richard (profile), 2 Aug 2013 @ 7:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: King George III or worse
Spanish inquisition - total death toll ~5000 over several centuries.

Hitler+Stalin 26 million in around 20 years.
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