Other Government Agencies Wanted Access To NSA Surveillance Data For Other Investigations... Including Copyright Infringement

from the seriously-now? dept

Mon, Aug 5th 2013 10:52am — Mike Masnick

Going all the way back to 2010, we've talked many times about how much of the "debate" over "cybersecurity" was really a kind of turf war between the Defense Department (really, the NSA) and the Department of Homeland Security, over who would control both the budgets and the information they were collecting. So it should come as little surprise to see the NY Times reporting that this turf war has been playing out behind the scenes with various other government agencies demanding access to all that sweet, sweet data it has on everyone for whatever their personal area of interest was -- including:

...drug trafficking, cyberattacks, money laundering, counterfeiting and even copyright infringement

To its credit (and I can't believe I'm saying that), it appears that the NSA has rejected most of these requests, saying that those other issues are not high enough of a priority and they don't want to violate privacy rights (don't laugh). Still, given how much pressure is coming from other agencies of the government, you have to expect that sooner or later the NSA will be pressured into opening up the data to other parts of the government. In fact, part of the concern about CISPA and other cybsersecurity legislation wasn't just that it would put the NSA in control over such information, but that it also made it clear that government agencies would be free to share that data with each other, for almost any investigative purpose.

And, of course, that brings us to the "copyright infringement" bit. It's no secret that different parts of the government -- including the DOJ and ICE (a part of Homeland Security) have taken it upon themselves to act as if copyright infringement is a huge problem that they, personally, need to stop. The idea that agencies are even seeking access to the NSA's data to deal with copyright infringement claims shows just how incredibly obsessed they are. Copyright shouldn't even involve federal law enforcement in the first place, as it really should only be about civil cases between private parties. It was troubling enough that the government was deputizing itself to be copyright cops -- but to find out that they also wanted to use the data the NSA collects (which is already of questionable legality) in order to further work on their copyright obsession is downright ridiculous.

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Filed Under: copyright infringement, dhs, doj, drug war, nsa, nsa surveillance, surveillance data

41 Comments

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That One Guy (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 9:41am

Talk about comedic court cases...
Given how the NSA treats all the data they scoop up as classified, even to the people it's about, using that information as evidence in a court case would make for one strange trial...

Prosecutor: The accused, Redacted, is hereby accused of copyright infringement for downloading Redacted on the date of-
Judge: I'm sorry, but do you think this court is a comedy club to practice jokes in? Either take the case seriously, and read the filing correctly, or I'll hold you in contempt of court.
Prosecutor: I am taking it seriously your honor, the evidence as filed by my client, and provided by... an anonymous third party has a number of bits redacted and covered over.
Judge: Let me see that...(Glances over the paper) How about that, you were right. I haven't seen so many black marks since the Prenda lawyers took their bar re-certification exams.
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Ninja (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 10:04am

Re: Talk about comedic court cases...
+funny spree!

Imagine if they read that foia requests one reader wanted to duct tape in a cycle and fax back a while back. I mean, how do you read a page of black ink?

"Screw it!" said the judge as he stormed out of the court. A few weeks later he was found living in a trailer near Yellowstone fishing with pointy tree branches and smoking some native weed.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:04am

I'm starting to wonder if General Petraeus was fired over data that came from these programs.
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Oblate (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:08am

Fun with acronyms
NSA = Not Sharing Anything
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nosoamazed, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:16am

It was just a matter of time before they pulled that , soon the MAFIAA will have it's cronies in washington trying to convince the masses that sharing is a terrorist act
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DCX2, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:20am

DEA's Special Operations Division
Just read about this today. DEA is given "anonymous tips", such as "You'd be told only, 'Be at a certain truck stop at a certain time and look for a certain vehicle.' And so we'd alert the state police to find an excuse to stop that vehicle, and then have a drug dog search it".

But you can't use secret tips in Court, right? Well, says one former DEA agent, "It's just like laundering money - you work it backwards to make it clean" - in a process called parallel construction.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-dea-sod-20130805,0,2087915,full.story
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out_of_the_blue, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:22am

Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
it's at least enough to get search warrant. Only real obstacle is that they don't focus on you. To me, just Google collecting such data is a real threat to freedom -- not that I'm for pirating -- but you pirates still seem unable to look forward to when Google takes off its mask to reveal that the Data Monster is fully cooperating with Big Media

ALL SPYING IS BAD, EVEN FOR YOU PIRATES!

When you think surveillance, think Google!
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That One Guy (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:23am

Re:
Umm, 'soon'? They've been doing that for decades now, and so far the masses have just ignored them. Between the massive hyperbole arguments they use('Downloading a song is just as bad as hijacking a car!') and human nature, which states that sharing is good and is what enables culture to flourish and grow, their 'arguments' never seem to stand up to public scrutiny.
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AC Unknown (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:26am

Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
Where's your evidence that you can't opt out of Google's spying by NOT USING THEIR SERVICES?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:29am

Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
Cool hat, where'd you get it?
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That One Guy (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:35am

Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
'I'm not a pirate but all you dirty pirates better watch out!

Stridently denying something while at the same time accusing others of it, might want to check out the wiki entry on 'Psychological projection', as your actions fit the psychosis perfectly.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:36am

given the power they seem to have and how just about every other government in the world has bent over and took it up the rear end as soon as told to, i am surprised that the copyright infringement, certainly of the entertainments industries and Hollywood material, isn't top of the list and all the really important, life-threatening stuff like drug trafficking, isn't pushed further down. you only have to ask someone like Dodd and you will be told that 'his' industry is the life-blood of the USA (believe that whole heap of lies and bullshit if you like!)! it's certainly financing the head of government and others and they were threatened that if they didn't do as ordered, their funding could be withdrawn. why everyone has to penalise the rest of the world over a movie or some music is beyond me!
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S. T. Stone, 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:46am

Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
Hey, OOTB: what about Facebook, or Twitter, or any other service that relies on user-submitted content and can potentially track you across multiple websites?

I don�t see you going after any of those, so until you do, quit singling out Google as the only problem in town.

Also: HOSTS file block on Google and all its services (including YouTube, Blogger, and Gmail), use HTTPS Everywhere, disable cookies, use DuckDuckGo. There, your Google problem is (mostly) solved.
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Nick (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 11:52am

I was thinking this for weeks because I did not want to give anyone any ideas. But I should have known those sleazy bastards (the content lobby) would try to go this low.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 12:22pm

This data is like performance enhancing drugs: illegal, unethical, secretive, and hard to resist if you're getting paid based on performance.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 12:25pm

Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
Can we get some moderation on these reposts? It's just the same off-topic shit over and over in every thread.
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ss, 5 Aug 2013 @ 12:35pm

And this, for me, encapsulates most of the issue in its entirety: If a government entity has these data then every other government department that sees value in these data will be after these data. It takes one tiny hole in the firewall to render it useless. The mere collection and retention is the existing hole and it can only get bigger.

"Turnkey tyranny" - Only there is no key to turn and there is no deadbolt.

America is fucked because we're led, in fact, by a bunch of scared ass pussy cats, pussies who'll shut down everything instead of work harder at achieving what they're supposed to stand for.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 12:55pm

Do it. Share it and spread it all round
If the govt were honest about the total surveillance state they are working so hard to get implemented, they would share this data. Then the public would finally be dragged kicking and screaming into accepting the reality that we live in- a surveillance state steadily moving towards police state. And they would get exactly what they deserve for their lack of vigilance. This is not just the judicial, legislative or executives fault we are in this reality today. It is also very much the fault of the general populace.
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jameshogg (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 1:04pm

I actually cannot stop laughing.

When the NSA, with all its malware spreading, corporation colluding, secretive spying, encryption cracking, ISP collaborating, and this last bit is key, DRM hijacking, REJECTS your calls for a Luddite utopia, your philosophy is dead.

There is such a thing as a tipping point, and I think the NSA rejecting the chance to enforce copyright while it abuses every privacy moral out there tells you everything. It means it's over.

And who is to say that the internet will stay the way it is now? What if in 20 or 30 years' time the internet is ten thousand times faster and ten thousand times more anonymous? What, dear copyright believers, will you do then? Apart from bellowing your self-pitying Luddism left, right and centre?

I know what I will do as a radical crowdfunding supporter: rejoice at that ten-thousand-fold increase's power to reap in much more crowdfunds much faster. Not a hint of Luddism exists in my philosophy.
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John Fenderson (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 1:14pm

What if in 20 or 30 years' time the internet is ten thousand times faster and ten thousand times more anonymous?

I have little doubt that the internet will eventually become effectively a locked-down broadcasting medium rather than the the public forum it is now, and it will be relegated to serving the same people and needs as cable television. When that happens, we will have to replace it with something else.

So I'd rephrase your question: What if in 20 or 30 years' time the popular replacement for the internet is ten thousand times faster and ten thousand times more anonymous?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 1:19pm

This is old news. How else did the DoJ gain access to Kim Dotcom's Skype logs? They certainly are providing information for copyright infringement cases, most likely criminal infringement only at this point....
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 1:42pm

It has always struck me as silly that the NSA needed the data to catch terrorists. Any terrorists worth his salt will use ways of communicating that escape the NSA dragnet - at the very least, until the attack has taken place.

But if the huge databases had been intended to go after the lesser drug dealers or the small-scale copyright infringers, now, then it starts to make much more sense...
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 2:00pm

Copyright shouldn't even involve federal law enforcement in the first place...

Umm, there is such a thing as criminal copyright infringement (just ask the NinjaVideo defendants), why shouldn't law enforcement use the tools at its disposal. Bummer when criminal laws are enforced, huh?
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John Fenderson (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 3:34pm

Re:
why shouldn't law enforcement use the tools at its disposal

And that, right there, is a very good reason why the the NSA's activities should not be allowed. Their special dispensation to spy into the private details of all of our lives inevitably become just about "law enforcement tool" -- one that would be absolutely illegal if the law enforcement agencies themselves ran it.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 3:38pm

Avoid everything that is related with Microsoft, Google, Apple and start using alternatives, there are even alternatives to $ and � :)
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Loki, 5 Aug 2013 @ 3:55pm

Re: Talk about comedic court cases...
Obviously, as the emerging DEA/SOD stories report and much like the NSA does to Congress, these agencies are just lying and making up stories about how they got their evidence.

I suspect that it is just a matter of time before other agencies like DOJ/ICE are outed as having gotten data from the NSA (despite their continued protests of "we don't do that").
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Loki, 5 Aug 2013 @ 3:58pm

Re: Re:
Not all of us have ignored them. Some of us have gone from among their staunchest supporters to some of their most virulent critics (in large part because of their ridiculous and clearly unsupportable claims).
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:08pm

Re: Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
Agreed, anyone really that concerned about privacy issues would almost certainly be worried first and foremost about Microsoft. After all it doesn't matter what browser or websites one uses when there are ways to acquire that information at the operating system level.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:35pm

Re:
Umm, there is such a thing as criminal copyright infringement

Never said otherwise. Am merely saying there shouldn't be. It makes no sense.
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AnonCow, 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:43pm

Make sure you take the battery out of your phone and wear a hat that obscures your face before you jaywalk. Otherwise, you'll soon be getting a ticket for the offense from your local police department.
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AngryMILF, 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:48pm

Why can't suspicious spouses use the data to determine if their spouse is being unfaithful?

Societally, that carries at least as much importance, or more, as copyright violations.
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:52pm

[blockquote]To its credit (and I can't believe I'm saying that), it appears that the NSA has rejected most of these requests, saying that those other issues are not high enough of a priority and they don't want to violate privacy rights (don't laugh).[/blockquote]

Don't be too quick to give them credit. You already know that aren't concerned about privacy - except for theirs of course. A much more likely explanation is that it's nothing more than a power game.

Why give away what you can trade for almost anything you want? This is the most valuable commodity on the political market. It's like an unlimited supply of IOUs from every other branch of government. The only value this has anything to do with is trade value.
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 4:53pm

I really need to use the Preview function when I'm switching between ubb and html boards
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That One Guy (profile), 5 Aug 2013 @ 5:28pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yup, forget piracy, they really are their own worst enemy.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2013 @ 9:43pm

Re: Re:
Seriously? You believe that it should not be a crime to copy the movie I financed and produced and distribute it for your own personal profit?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:00am

Re: Re: Hey, I've written that if Google's data on YOU PIRATES were turned over
It came on a big roll of hats, very cheap too (but you have to mould the sheet to your head)!
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Pragmatic, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: Re:
What if you're just sharing it with friends for nothing? Don't tell me you never let your buddies borrow your DVDs or anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 8:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's not criminal copyright infringement. What I described is and unbelievably, Masnick thinks it should not be a criminal offense.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 6:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Could you please explain why the hell you need the feds involved when a lawsuit would suffice?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 11:24pm

Re: Re: Re:
Show us the millions of dollars that basement-dwelling teenagers stole from artists, preventing them from funding another solid-gold Humvee.
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Evelyn Williams, 12 Dec 2013 @ 11:46pm

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Regards:
Do You Need an Accountant to Divorce?
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