Former NSA Boss Calls Snowden's Supporters Internet Shut-ins; Equates Transparency Activists With Al-Qaeda
from the one-foot-in-own-mouth,-one-jackboot-on-everyone-else's-neck dept
Some of the most ardent defenders of our nation's Skynet surveillance programs and other forms of cyber-overreach have one thing in common: they continue to belittle their opponents as a loose confederation of basement-dwelling loners who exist solely on The Internet. I'm sure this form of disparagement plays well with like-minded people who take comfort in belittling things they don't understand (anyone more than 5 years younger than them; The Internet; bitcoin exchange rates; bronies*).
[*TBH, I don't really understand the last two either. But I have yet to attack them purely out of naivete.]
Mike Rogers, best friend to intelligence agencies everywhere, has done this on more than one occasion. The first one he fired off during his impassioned defense of the indefensible CISPA bill, in which he referred to opponents of the bill (including the ACLU and EFF) as "14-year-olds in their basement clicking around on the internet."
In his recent impassioned defense of not cutting off funding to some of the NSA's surveillance efforts, Rogers returned to his favorite target.
Are we so small that we can only look at our Facebook likes today in this Chamber? Or are we going to stand up and find out how many lives we can save?Now, it's former NSA director Michael Hayden's turn to call opposition to NSA spying nothing more than bunch of internet malcontents. In his speech to the Bipartisan Policy Center, Hayden speculated that apprehending Ed Snowden could result in retaliatory attacks from "hackers and transparency groups."
"If and when our government grabs Edward Snowden, and brings him back here to the United States for trial, what does this group do?" said retired air force general Michael Hayden, who from 1999 to 2009 ran the NSA and then the CIA, referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".Setting aside the point that transparency groups like the ACLU and EFF aren't comprised of malicious hackers, the insinuation that the opposition is largely comprised of sexless young adults is nothing short of insulting. It's this sort of attitude fosters the "us vs. them" antagonism so prevalent in these agencies dealings with the public. The NSA (along with the FBI, DEA and CIA) continually declares the law is on its side and portrays its opponents as ridiculous dreamers who believe safety doesn't come with a price.
By characterizing the opposition as social misfits, the NSA's supporters hope to sway public opinion back to its side. After all, who would Joe Public find better company: anarchist twenty-somethings, most of them desperately single, or the intelligence community, which may occasionally, inadvertently overstep its bounds in its tireless quest to keep America safe?
Opposition properly belittled, Hayden went on to practically dare hackers to attack military sites -- and to equate their activities with terrorism.
"They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said, using a shorthand for US military networks. "So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida..."
Hayden said that the loose coalition of hacker groups and activists were "less capable" of inflicting actual harm on either US networks or physical infrastructure, but they grow technologically more sophisticated. Echoing years of rhetoric that has described terrorists, Hayden added that their "demands may be unsatisfiable".At this point, Hayden goes beyond insulting and into possibly dangerous territory by directly comparing "transparency groups" and "hackers" to al-Qaida terrorists. The best thing about this speech is knowing Hayden is still only a "former" head of the NSA. No doubt his words carry weight, but they're less likely to have a direct impact.
Reading Hayden's statements makes you wonder if those currently in the positions he formerly held also believe "transparency groups" and "activists" are "terrorists." Hayden attempted to portray his discussion of possible cyber-attacks as "purely speculative" but by couching it in "activists=terrorists" rhetoric, he simply exposed how intelligence agencies view those who actively oppose their tactics.
The War on Terror is ridiculous enough without the specious addition of opponents of domestic surveillance and supporters of Snowden's whistleblowing to the "enemies" list. Hayden's mindset indicates there's an underlying tension that encourages intelligence agencies to view millions of Americans as latent threats simply waiting for something to trigger their "terrorist" actions.
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Filed Under: activists, internet, michael hayden, mike rogers, nsa, surveillance, terrorists
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Sad...
When people like this speak, you can plainly see the elitism pouring from their mouths like diarrhea... it's sickening.
I suppose we should all bow down and thank these "heroes" for "protecting" us from ourselves.
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Bold words from a man who hasn't had an erection in decades.
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What I find absolutely amazing in this statement is that it is entirely male chauvinistic in the workplace. He does realize that the workplace is co-ed now or is he so entirely out of touch that he doesn't realize that there are very few places out there that are entirely men or women only (and most of those places were, until recently, in the military.)
Now I realize he is talking about intimacy, but come on...most of the twentysomethings out there work in fields where there are men and women working, and talking together on a daily basis.
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Apparently so, irt Bob Filner (mayor of San Diego, former Congressman.).
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By characterizing the opposition as social misfits, the NSA's supporters hope to sway public opinion back to its side.
With the center of the internet users bell curve moving up in age. The average "14 year old basement dwelling social misfit" is actually mid to late thirties at this point.
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And married, with children.
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Sadly, there are huge numbers among the public who will believe the bullshit.
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Hayden is wrong!
This statement is 100% guaranteed to be at least as accurate as his characterization of those of us who are fighting to save America from his traitorous* crowd.
* This use of the epithet "traitorous" is 100% guaranteed to be at least as accurate as it is when being used by his traitorous** crowd.
** ibid
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Re: Hayden is wrong!
I'm sure he doesn't pay for it either. We're probably picking up the tab for him.
Or maybe his old buddies in the NSA just dig through all that communications they haven't collected to help him out. Oh wait, we're paying for that too.
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Re: Hayden is wrong!
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Douche Alert!
More to the point, castigating a group of people pertaining to age group, hobby and mindset(and apparently the sexless, pimple faced nerds of yesteryear) shows further how out of touch he really is, unless he's purposefully just trying to start something in the hopes a few idiots will prove his stance right(and in so doing would let him rings his little bell just that much more).
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Grown ups
I mean Secret Service members, don't they just go straight down to the brothel as soon as they hit town?
Oh, and that Director of the CIA Patraeus guy too, he must have something going for him.
Message to teens: want to break the law AND get lots of sex - all while at work?
Inspirational stuff. Where do I sign up?
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The price is becoming to high!
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I thought this was America - where EVERY citizen matters and every vote counts. Not everyone but the 'nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, and twentysomethings...'.
"loose coalition of hacker groups and activists were "less capable" of inflicting actual harm on either US networks or physical infrastructure"
Says the guys who created all the FUD about Anonymous hacking the power grids and shutting down hospitals and stuff...
Aren't all these military officers supposed to protect America from attacks both foreign and domestic? Who's protecting us from them and their stupidity?!
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I know which price I would rather pay.
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Dear Michael Hayden....
"nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".
But you sir, are hands down the most uninformed, head-in-the-sand, douchebag I have ever had the displeasure of reading about. You preconceived notions about supporters of Edward Snowden are misguided at best. Considering the position you're in, I find it troubling that someone like you is so out of touch with reality.
You might want to consider unblocking the Guardian (and whatever other news sites you're blocking), read the news, and join the rest of us in the little thing we call "reality."
Sincerely,
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There's no bigger threat to tyrants than a true believer with an idea.
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Lumping the EFF and ACLU, and other public rights organizations in with Al-Qaeda...
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For most people, at least to the extent they have similar influences in their development, it's relatively true. It's also a good way to spot issues like this douchenozzle has. If you think everyone is a liar it's probably a sign you lie a lot. If you think all spouses cheat you're probably a cheater.
It's not universal but it's fairly consistent.
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These are the guys we desperately need to keep out of government. But, sadly, they gravitate towards it because that's where the power is.
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No need to wonder. It's quite clear they do.
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The Challenge
Sounds like a challenge to me. I wonder who will take him up on it?
I hope they are more careful than Lulzsec or Anonymous.
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Re: The Challenge
Wonder if we'll find him in the exact same position trying to work the foot out of his mouth.
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Wow Hayden...
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"Are we so small that we can only look at our Facebook likes today in this Chamber? Or are we going to stand up and find out how many lives we can save?"
--False Dichotomy. Loaded Question. Begging the Question. Black-or-White.
"referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".
--String of Ad Hominem. Tu quoque.
""They may want to come after the US government,"
--Appeal to emotion. Strawman.
""So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida...""
--Appeal to emotion. Strawman.
well, basically that's all i feel like doing, but basically its pretty repetitive. This guy takes about every logical fallacy he can find and fits as many of them as possible as many times as possible into the fewest sentences possible. Based on this analysis, I think this guy might just be the ultimate troll. It's like Ootb, daryll, average joe, and the rest all combined into some kind of like, Megazord Troll.
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It may not be the entire public, but it's close enough that it may as well be.
The enemy they are using as justification to spy on every American are the people who grew up with the internet. A group that is growing daily. A group they cannot control.
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slander and defamtion of character
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Re: slander and defamtion of character
Suing him makes him important.
Dismissing him makes him impotent.
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and the nsa gets free gay pron
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Re: and the nsa gets free gay pron
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/s
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Activists?
When you think about it, that's a pretty telling comment. Activists are people who are campaigning to change the system or the status quo; this is sort of the fundamental basis of democratic change within the system. In Hayden's viewpoint, people who are trying to change the system are equivalent to people who are trying to destroy the system.
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Re: Activists?
What Hayden is utterly wrong about is the fact that there has been remarkably little violence threatened to those supporting the NSA. In fact, the only ones threatening violence...are the intelligence agencies...
The fearful act out of fear. The populace is acting out in a quiet rage. It is this which is the difference between the two groups.
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Re: Re: Activists?
Amusing how all it takes to scare the government into closing around down embassies is terrorist chatter. You'd think that after having invested trillions (with a T) of dollars into military and security, they'd be ready to thwart/defend against such a thing. I mean surely they knew the risks before setting up shop in foreign countries, so they would hav taken the necessary security precautions, right? If they really had picked up the chatter then how come they didn't zero in on the source? Are these terrorists really so sophisticated that we cannot even track them down?
Really, is the government trying to explain to us in coded dialect that they're all bumbling idiots?
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You know, if the NSA and other federal agencies really DO consider constitutional activists the enemy...
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The sad part really is that this "supreme mission" view is now operational and has fuck all to do with terrorism apart from creating more of it, by and means and via any (re)classifications deemed necessary.
The terror garden needs nutrients and the tree of liberty wilts.
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Your daily dose of applied godwinism
From Rep. Lamar Smith's (R-TX) I'm no nerd... disclaimers during the SOPA hearings...
...To (my own) Senator Feinstein disclaiming she's not a high-tech techie, trying really hard to not say No nerd*, but...
...To Mike Rogers' Fourteen-year-olds in their basements
...to this...
...is showing a disturbing formation of a caricature of those of us that are tech-savvy, an insensitivity that is leading to regulation and hatred. This is a phenomenon that has, historically preceded persecution and genocide. Anti-intellectualism resurfaces time and again, usually harbingering the demise of a kingdom or nation.
Myself, I was persecuted (bullied) as a kid for being a nerd, and frankly I'm just plain tired of it, and it doesn't help that this is an obvious prejudice harbored in my nation's capital amongst our leaders.
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Re: Your daily dose of applied godwinism
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Snowden sexless
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ಠ_ಠ
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2. He's a government spook
3. His whole career has been about lying, cheating, psychological trickery, and conning his victims into revealing what he wants.
You can't believe a single word that he utters, then, now, or ever. The deception is too deeply ingrained.
"Listen, I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissin' babies I'm stealin' their lollypops. But, it also means that I keep my options open."
National Security Advisor to Jack Ryan in "The Hunt For Red October - film"
.
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Orders
God says...
ld that happen, O Sancho," said Don Quixote, "thy silence will
never come up to all thou hast talked, art talking, and wilt talk all thy
life; moreover, it naturally stands to reason, that my death will come
before thine; so I never expect to see thee dumb, not even when thou art
drinking or sleeping, and that is the utmost I can say."
"In good faith, senor," replied Sancho, "there's no trusting that
fleshless one, I mean Death, who devours the lamb as soon as the sheep,
and, as I have heard our c
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Dear Internet shut-ins
See, I paused to think, "Should I put my name on a post like this? Even though it's obviously in jest and we do still supposedly have freedom of speech?" What the hell is wrong with the current environment where I even have to CONSIDER posting a joke? Screw these guys.
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Michael Hayden .. get ready to hire a lawyer
I'm looking for a lawyer to sue him if he ever suggests again verbally or in print that I'm a member of any of those groups.
Can we get a class action suit against him?
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Re: Michael Hayden .. get ready to hire a lawyer
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Re: Threat level
Here I am, picturing Dian Fossey (played by Sigourney Weaver) armed with a flamethrower taped to an MK47, leading an army of Silverbacks to sweet, sweet vengeance on the poachers.
Does this make me a bad person?
Also, the whole of that comment, while excruciatingly funny, has been reported as spam.
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Response to: Noud Ligra on Aug 6th, 2013 @ 9:58pm
ctl + p
get off 4chan
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And yes, they are having massive impact, but not because of direct confrontational tactics - they expose. They expose how this system is crumbling before our very eyes. This strategy will have considerable impact on wall street. This strategy will bring down this monster. If the US collapses as an economic force, it can't afford a trillion dollar a year army now can it?
Obama is the new Gorbachev. Obama is curating the controlled demolition of the US. The battle on the interwebs is about deciding what this pile of rubble will become a few years in the future.
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There's a name for this.
When everyone, especially those that try to help, gets added to someone's "enemies" list, they call that "paranoia".
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[*TBH, I don't really understand the last two either. But I have yet to attack them purely out of naivete.]
And this makes you at least 20% cooler than those who do.
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MIHOP or LIHOP
How many times did I wish it was the case, at least the notion that the United States was resilient to the scheming of foreign militants, and that only a grand scale treachery from within would be enough to bring us down.
Certainly Bush's administration smacked of the kind of folks who'd pull something like this, and surely they resisted the 9/11 commission as if they were hiding something.
But I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure that what was apparent was what happened, that two cross-country jet liners full of fuel crashed into the WTC and brought the buildings down. We were open and vulnerable, and we let the horror of this single event predominate our fears and concerns so that we bleed money over a threat that didn't even create a bump in the mortality rate.
When our own government exploits our fears of terror to their own political ends (pulling power from the people into their own hands) does that make them terrorists as well?
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While it's a slight exaggeration, they probably used data about Rikou as the basis for this assertion.
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Hayden be Hatin' everyone who aint Hayden
It really is no wonder that the NSA wants to know what everyone is talking about behind its back. It apparently only hires proven crazy people who think everyone is out to get'em.
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So, two things:
1. Snowden just pwned the NSA. If that's not the "hackers' World Trade Centers," I don't know what is.
2. Dot-mil is so hardened? *cough*BradleyManning*cough*. Next!
What this douchebag fails to acknowledge is that the "hackers" who are going to pwn him don't need to use the kind of externally-originating attacks that he's thinking of when he says that "dot-mil is so hardened that you can't touch it." The "hackers" and "freedom activists" are already inside his gates.
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'Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.'
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Hayden Speech @ BPC on Elec Grid Cyber Sec
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/314419-1
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Hence Hayden will blame anyone and everyone but himself, he claims that the people are wrong in their attitudes that this is a major scandal, he however fails to realize that it is he and his political and military cohorts that are in fact shut up in their own little world, failing to see that they are not the important ones of the United States, the important people are in fact the General Public!
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Snowden
If the NSA was not spying on everyone's phone and internet conversations and recording them. Why are they bothering to go after Snowden for leaking top secret information??
The only reason to go after Snowden is if he was telling the truth.
Seems like they would have been better off calling Snowden a nut and letting him go then to try to bring him back for trial. The end times have begun folks.
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uncle sam
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A Modest Proposal
Michael Hayden is an un-indicted war criminal. He should be huddled with defense attorneys, not spewing jack-booted nonsense. There is a very good reason he continues to spin away - he knows that if this goes the "wrong" way, he could be prosecuted.
Every drone strike endangers American children.
NSA bureaucrats are snooping through your most private communications and sharing it with other spineless bureaucrats who hide in cubicles.
NSA bureaucrats and looking at you mother's medical records. Soon they'll start selling them to insurance companies so they can deny her live-saving medical treatment.
NSA bureaucrats are invading your children's privacy. It's up to you to stop them. Are you going to let them abuse your children at your expense?
Guys and gals, let's create a list of the most nefarious uses that could made of the information these bureaucrats unlawfully steal from every American. Let them try to prove they aren't doing it. Just one example: bureaucrats shared the private romantic phone calls of servicemen and women who were separated from each other because of service to America. Their lives were on the line and these snooping bureaucrats were passing the files among each other and laughing. Do we really want to pay their salaries?
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Obama
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Go spy under your mom's dress!
This is how we get paid back, our loyalty is compensated by those idiots spying on us as if we were their slaves. Shame on you, bastards.
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Actually...
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Hayden is Sophomoric
I am a 50 something, advanced degree individual who served 7 years of military service to defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. Hayden and his counter parts are domestic enemies who got their hands caught in the cookie jar by Snowden and now they want to punish him for causing them so much embarrassment. They violated the law and cries of keeping us safe are empty retorts. It was Ben Franklin who proclaimed: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” This was a sentiment echoed by many of our founding fathers. Hayden and his peers seem to be more pron to quotes from Animal Farm: "No animal shall sleep on a bed....with sheets".
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