Former NSA Boss Calls Snowden's Supporters Internet Shut-ins; Equates Transparency Activists With Al-Qaeda

from the one-foot-in-own-mouth,-one-jackboot-on-everyone-else's-neck dept

Tue, Aug 6th 2013 1:03pm — Tim Cushing

Some of the most ardent defenders of our nation's ~~Skynet~~ surveillance programs and other forms of cyber-overreach have one thing in common: they continue to belittle their opponents as a loose confederation of basement-dwelling loners who exist solely on The Internet. I'm sure this form of disparagement plays well with like-minded people who take comfort in belittling things they don't understand (anyone more than 5 years younger than them; The Internet; bitcoin exchange rates; bronies*).

[*TBH, I don't really understand the last two either. But I have yet to attack them purely out of naivete.]

Mike Rogers, best friend to intelligence agencies everywhere, has done this on more than one occasion. The first one he fired off during his impassioned defense of the indefensible CISPA bill, in which he referred to opponents of the bill (including the ACLU and EFF) as "14-year-olds in their basement clicking around on the internet."

In his recent impassioned defense of not cutting off funding to some of the NSA's surveillance efforts, Rogers returned to his favorite target.

Are we so small that we can only look at our Facebook likes today in this Chamber? Or are we going to stand up and find out how many lives we can save?

Now, it's former NSA director Michael Hayden's turn to call opposition to NSA spying nothing more than bunch of internet malcontents. In his speech to the Bipartisan Policy Center, Hayden speculated that apprehending Ed Snowden could result in retaliatory attacks from "hackers and transparency groups."

"If and when our government grabs Edward Snowden, and brings him back here to the United States for trial, what does this group do?" said retired air force general Michael Hayden, who from 1999 to 2009 ran the NSA and then the CIA, referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".

Setting aside the point that transparency groups like the ACLU and EFF aren't comprised of malicious hackers, the insinuation that the opposition is largely comprised of sexless young adults is nothing short of insulting. It's this sort of attitude fosters the "us vs. them" antagonism so prevalent in these agencies dealings with the public. The NSA (along with the FBI, DEA and CIA) continually declares the law is on its side and portrays its opponents as ridiculous dreamers who believe safety doesn't come with a price.

By characterizing the opposition as social misfits, the NSA's supporters hope to sway public opinion back to its side. After all, who would Joe Public find better company: anarchist twenty-somethings, most of them desperately single, or the intelligence community, which may occasionally, inadvertently overstep its bounds in its tireless quest to keep America safe?

Opposition properly belittled, Hayden went on to practically dare hackers to attack military sites -- and to equate their activities with terrorism.

"They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said, using a shorthand for US military networks. "So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida..."

Hayden said that the loose coalition of hacker groups and activists were "less capable" of inflicting actual harm on either US networks or physical infrastructure, but they grow technologically more sophisticated. Echoing years of rhetoric that has described terrorists, Hayden added that their "demands may be unsatisfiable".

At this point, Hayden goes beyond insulting and into possibly dangerous territory by directly comparing "transparency groups" and "hackers" to al-Qaida terrorists. The best thing about this speech is knowing Hayden is still only a "former" head of the NSA. No doubt his words carry weight, but they're less likely to have a direct impact.

Reading Hayden's statements makes you wonder if those currently in the positions he formerly held also believe "transparency groups" and "activists" are "terrorists." Hayden attempted to portray his discussion of possible cyber-attacks as "purely speculative" but by couching it in "activists=terrorists" rhetoric, he simply exposed how intelligence agencies view those who actively oppose their tactics.

The War on Terror is ridiculous enough without the specious addition of opponents of domestic surveillance and supporters of Snowden's whistleblowing to the "enemies" list. Hayden's mindset indicates there's an underlying tension that encourages intelligence agencies to view millions of Americans as latent threats simply waiting for something to trigger their "terrorist" actions.

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Filed Under: activists, internet, michael hayden, mike rogers, nsa, surveillance, terrorists

106 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:09pm

Yes, because being a lying shitbag permits you to abuse everyone else.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:13pm

Sad...
When the "demands" that are "unsatisfiable" are essentially our constitutionally-protected rights.

When people like this speak, you can plainly see the elitism pouring from their mouths like diarrhea... it's sickening.

I suppose we should all bow down and thank these "heroes" for "protecting" us from ourselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:14pm

"twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years"

Bold words from a man who hasn't had an erection in decades.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:14pm

It's the kind of nonsensical, sensationalist rubbish we have come to expect from politicians and 'intelligence' personnel in the Western world.

Sadly, there are huge numbers among the public who will believe the bullshit.
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John Fenderson (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:16pm

Hayden is wrong!
I get laid a TON more than he does, with much hotter women, and I don't even have to pay for it.

This statement is 100% guaranteed to be at least as accurate as his characterization of those of us who are fighting to save America from his traitorous* crowd.

* This use of the epithet "traitorous" is 100% guaranteed to be at least as accurate as it is when being used by his traitorous** crowd.

** ibid
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rw (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:23pm

Re:
He's just jealous.
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Transmitte (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:28pm

Douche Alert!
Really? This from a person who most likely gets his updates from the very twenty somethings that do all the grunt work for him? Methinks someone is spewing mounds of horseshit while hoping he'll sway the regular folks into beLIEving him(as the article itself points out).

More to the point, castigating a group of people pertaining to age group, hobby and mindset(and apparently the sexless, pimple faced nerds of yesteryear) shows further how out of touch he really is, unless he's purposefully just trying to start something in the hopes a few idiots will prove his stance right(and in so doing would let him rings his little bell just that much more).
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Sambo, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:28pm

Grown ups
Of course when Hayden talks about sexless youngsters, it's purely to remind people how morally upright while still virile your average spook is.

I mean Secret Service members, don't they just go straight down to the brothel as soon as they hit town?

Oh, and that Director of the CIA Patraeus guy too, he must have something going for him.

Message to teens: want to break the law AND get lots of sex - all while at work?

Inspirational stuff. Where do I sign up?
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wec, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:29pm

"don't believe safety doesn't come with a price."

The price is becoming to high!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:32pm

"said retired air force general Michael Hayden, who from 1999 to 2009 ran the NSA and then the CIA, referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".

I thought this was America - where EVERY citizen matters and every vote counts. Not everyone but the 'nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, and twentysomethings...'.

"loose coalition of hacker groups and activists were "less capable" of inflicting actual harm on either US networks or physical infrastructure"

Says the guys who created all the FUD about Anonymous hacking the power grids and shutting down hospitals and stuff...

Aren't all these military officers supposed to protect America from attacks both foreign and domestic? Who's protecting us from them and their stupidity?!
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:33pm

Safety may come at a price but so does freedom.

I know which price I would rather pay.
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saulgoode (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:35pm

Please stop calling them "intelligence agencies" -- they are not deserving of the moniker.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:36pm

Looks like the spam filter is broken
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:36pm

Re:
Military intelligence - the ultimate oxymoron
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:37pm

Dear Michael Hayden....
I would like to inform you that I am none of the following:

"nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".

But you sir, are hands down the most uninformed, head-in-the-sand, douchebag I have ever had the displeasure of reading about. You preconceived notions about supporters of Edward Snowden are misguided at best. Considering the position you're in, I find it troubling that someone like you is so out of touch with reality.

You might want to consider unblocking the Guardian (and whatever other news sites you're blocking), read the news, and join the rest of us in the little thing we call "reality."

Sincerely,
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:37pm

Re: Re:
I thought that was Microsoft Works...
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:39pm

This sort of propaganda is exactly why the government does things like keeping leaked secrets classified, attacking organizations like Wikileaks and issuing vague threats against websites like Techdirt. Propaganda only works if there are no dissenting voices to correct it.

There's no bigger threat to tyrants than a true believer with an idea.
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AC Unknown (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:40pm

Re:
I think I know which price I'd pay, too.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:43pm

Re: Re:
To quote Mel Gibson in Braveheart, "FREEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOMMMMM!!"
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:44pm

Re:
They've run a successful psychological warfare campaign against US citizens for over a decade. They can't be too stupid.
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jackn, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:48pm

Can you say "McCarthyism."
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:49pm

Re: Hayden is wrong!
I get laid a TON more than he does, with much hotter women, and I don't even have to pay for it.

I'm sure he doesn't pay for it either. We're probably picking up the tab for him.

Or maybe his old buddies in the NSA just dig through all that communications they haven't collected to help him out. Oh wait, we're paying for that too.
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That One Guy (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:51pm

Lumping the EFF and ACLU, and other public rights organizations in with Al-Qaeda...
Anyone still think that the public isn't, if not the 'classified enemy' they talk about, or least considered one of them?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:59pm

IN psychology, we call this a projection. Accusing the "other" of our own shortcomings.
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Binko Barnes (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 1:59pm

Guys like this aren't stupid, they are actually quite intelligent. But they are ideologues, little different than Stalinists or Maoists or even Jihadists in their mental framework. They divide the world into two groups, the anointed few who follow their righteous and narrow ideology and the rest who need to be constantly monitored, chastised, punished and controlled.

These are the guys we desperately need to keep out of government. But, sadly, they gravitate towards it because that's where the power is.
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sorrykb (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:02pm

Reading Hayden's statements makes you wonder if those currently in the positions he formerly held also believe "transparency groups" and "activists" are "terrorists."

No need to wonder. It's quite clear they do.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:05pm

The Challenge

""They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said"

Sounds like a challenge to me. I wonder who will take him up on it?

I hope they are more careful than Lulzsec or Anonymous.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:13pm

Wow Hayden...
That sure sounds like a really bad case of butt hurt you have going on there. Maybe you should get some cream for that. You know what those groups DON'T have to do? Invent evil entities to attack to make themselves look successful. They don't have to concoct terror plots to foil or paint people as criminals that aren't to claim that they are benefiting society.
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Beech, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:16pm

Well, based on linguistic examination i think i have made an important discovery. Let's look at Mr. Hayden's rhetorical style (refer to yourlogicalfallacys.com):

"Are we so small that we can only look at our Facebook likes today in this Chamber? Or are we going to stand up and find out how many lives we can save?"

--False Dichotomy. Loaded Question. Begging the Question. Black-or-White.

"referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".

--String of Ad Hominem. Tu quoque.

""They may want to come after the US government,"

--Appeal to emotion. Strawman.

""So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida...""

--Appeal to emotion. Strawman.

well, basically that's all i feel like doing, but basically its pretty repetitive. This guy takes about every logical fallacy he can find and fits as many of them as possible as many times as possible into the fewest sentences possible. Based on this analysis, I think this guy might just be the ultimate troll. It's like Ootb, daryll, average joe, and the rest all combined into some kind of like, Megazord Troll.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:18pm

And here, in this man's statements, is where we see the mysterious 'enemy' revealed and defined.
It may not be the entire public, but it's close enough that it may as well be.
The enemy they are using as justification to spy on every American are the people who grew up with the internet. A group that is growing daily. A group they cannot control.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:33pm

Re:
"twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years"

What I find absolutely amazing in this statement is that it is entirely male chauvinistic in the workplace. He does realize that the workplace is co-ed now or is he so entirely out of touch that he doesn't realize that there are very few places out there that are entirely men or women only (and most of those places were, until recently, in the military.)

Now I realize he is talking about intimacy, but come on...most of the twentysomethings out there work in fields where there are men and women working, and talking together on a daily basis.
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:34pm

Re:
Actually everyone naturally projects themselves onto others. It's a survival mechanism that makes us feel connected to the group. It allows us to believe we can read minds. That's the purpose of looking each other in the eye.

For most people, at least to the extent they have similar influences in their development, it's relatively true. It's also a good way to spot issues like this douchenozzle has. If you think everyone is a liar it's probably a sign you lie a lot. If you think all spouses cheat you're probably a cheater.

It's not universal but it's fairly consistent.
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Guardian, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:38pm

slander and defamtion of character
this fucking sack lying sack a snot needs to get sued for his comments about ...everyone.
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Guardian, 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:39pm

and the nsa gets free gay pron
whats that tell ya
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Rich Fiscus (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 2:59pm

Re: slander and defamtion of character
The best punishment for this kind of person is to simply point and laugh.

Suing him makes him important.

Dismissing him makes him impotent.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:07pm

Re: and the nsa gets free gay pron
In mother russia porn gays you?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:14pm

Wow, I'm sure glad people in positions of power like head of the NSA are fine upstanding citizens and not blowhards who would throw out childish insults rather than debate things on their merits.
/s
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:24pm

The opposite side of this coin he is holding, would mean that he is scared of his own shadow. Now that is the type of person you do not want to be in NSA or FBI. This dude is scary.
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John Fenderson (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:36pm

Re:
I call them "spy agencies". Likewise, I avoid using "defense department". They're the "war department". My descriptions are more accurate than theirs.
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John Fenderson (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:38pm

Re: Re: slander and defamtion of character
I can't click "insightful" enough for this comment.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:40pm

at least you cant call 'retired air force general Michael Hayden sexless. you just have to look at the number of people he fucked up while in charge of the NSA and then the CIA!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:48pm

Activists?
"nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years"?

When you think about it, that's a pretty telling comment. Activists are people who are campaigning to change the system or the status quo; this is sort of the fundamental basis of democratic change within the system. In Hayden's viewpoint, people who are trying to change the system are equivalent to people who are trying to destroy the system.
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Anonymous, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:48pm

Transparency activists are nothing like Al-Qaeda. Transparency activists really exist.
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Bergman (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:49pm

You know, if the NSA and other federal agencies really DO consider constitutional activists the enemy...
Then it would explain an awful lot about how the NSA came to consider so much data about ordinary, every day citizens to be relevant.
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Watchit (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:51pm

Bronies are adults/teens who watch the new my little pony cartoon.
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ss, 6 Aug 2013 @ 3:57pm

Re: Hayden is wrong!
What is this "don't even have to pay" that you speak of?
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ss, 6 Aug 2013 @ 4:12pm

Former Intelligence Worker Calls Former Intelligence Boss a Tool.

The sad part really is that this "supreme mission" view is now operational and has fuck all to do with terrorism apart from creating more of it, by and means and via any (re)classifications deemed necessary.

The terror garden needs nutrients and the tree of liberty wilts.
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Anonymous, 6 Aug 2013 @ 4:43pm

Re:
Usually they're called fags.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:03pm

Your daily dose of applied godwinism
Okay, as one of these internet shut ins (not exactly fitting the stereotype, but still) this meme has been repeating in Washington enough to make me nervous.

From Rep. Lamar Smith's (R-TX) I'm no nerd... disclaimers during the SOPA hearings...

...To (my own) Senator Feinstein disclaiming she's not a high-tech techie, trying really hard to not say No nerd*, but...

...To Mike Rogers' Fourteen-year-olds in their basements

...to this...

...is showing a disturbing formation of a caricature of those of us that are tech-savvy, an insensitivity that is leading to regulation and hatred. This is a phenomenon that has, historically preceded persecution and genocide. Anti-intellectualism resurfaces time and again, usually harbingering the demise of a kingdom or nation.

Myself, I was persecuted (bullied) as a kid for being a nerd, and frankly I'm just plain tired of it, and it doesn't help that this is an obvious prejudice harbored in my nation's capital amongst our leaders.
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toyotabedzrock (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:05pm

Snowden sexless
Mr. Snowden seemed far from sexless. I assume everyone has seen his modeling photos and his girlfriends videos.
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ss, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:23pm

Re: Re:
I presume don't mean fag in a cool homosexual way. Yes, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense.
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Anonymous, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:36pm

Re: Re: Re:
More like a FLAMING homosexual way.
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ss, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:38pm

Re:
Allow me to clarify - EONS ago, technologically speaking, the military's capacity for SIGINT was not much short of cutting edge. Enter today and that cutting edge is pointing inwards : fact. I do not have the words for how critical this juncture is in our history.
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ss, 6 Aug 2013 @ 5:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh, fags that like to be called fags. That makes sense too.
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Jordan, 6 Aug 2013 @ 6:16pm

ಠ_ಠ
Really? The former boss of the largest organization of mathematicians who literally spend their days in windowless buildings listening in on other people's conversations is calling everyone else shut-ins? REALLY?!
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Disgusted, 6 Aug 2013 @ 6:21pm

1, He's a politician
2. He's a government spook
3. His whole career has been about lying, cheating, psychological trickery, and conning his victims into revealing what he wants.

You can't believe a single word that he utters, then, now, or ever. The deception is too deeply ingrained.

"Listen, I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissin' babies I'm stealin' their lollypops. But, it also means that I keep my options open."

National Security Advisor to Jack Ryan in "The Hunt For Red October - film"

.
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Terry A. Davis, 6 Aug 2013 @ 7:15pm

Orders
I take orders from God. I outrank you. You cats want a new bag to play with.

God says...
ld that happen, O Sancho," said Don Quixote, "thy silence will
never come up to all thou hast talked, art talking, and wilt talk all thy
life; moreover, it naturally stands to reason, that my death will come
before thine; so I never expect to see thee dumb, not even when thou art
drinking or sleeping, and that is the utmost I can say."

"In good faith, senor," replied Sancho, "there's no trusting that
fleshless one, I mean Death, who devours the lamb as soon as the sheep,
and, as I have heard our c
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Jeff Messer, 6 Aug 2013 @ 8:15pm

Dear Internet shut-ins
Please proceed with the bitch slap on this guy's life. I think he needs a few hundred pizzas and to be added to a plethora of skeevy tele-marketing lists.

See, I paused to think, "Should I put my name on a post like this? Even though it's obviously in jest and we do still supposedly have freedom of speech?" What the hell is wrong with the current environment where I even have to CONSIDER posting a joke? Screw these guys.
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Libel/Slander Ready to Happen, 6 Aug 2013 @ 8:17pm

Michael Hayden .. get ready to hire a lawyer
I'm opposed to the illegal acts of the NSA. I am NOT a member of any of the groups he says are are opposed to the NSA activities.

I'm looking for a lawyer to sue him if he ever suggests again verbally or in print that I'm a member of any of those groups.

Can we get a class action suit against him?
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Zos (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 8:36pm

this is what the government thinks of us. this is what an activist on the internet looks like to them...notice, "voter" and "citizen" don't even get an honorable mention?
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bj�rn althoff, 6 Aug 2013 @ 9:06pm

Mr Hayden, I talk to the opposite sex every day, and I don't have to pay for it.
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Rob, 6 Aug 2013 @ 9:20pm

Re: Michael Hayden .. get ready to hire a lawyer
Wouldn't it ultimately be self-defeating to band together with other like-minded individuals to protest being called, among other things, "activists"?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Aug 2013 @ 9:48pm

So now people who believe in the Constitution of the United States are considered terrorists? Is that what this debate has come to?
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Noud Ligra (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 9:58pm

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I�ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I�ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I�m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You�re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that�s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little �clever� comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn�t, you didn�t, and now you�re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You�re fucking dead, kiddo.
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Andy (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 11:49pm

Re: Your daily dose of applied godwinism
I guess they are just scared sh*tless and feel threatened by those, generally much younger than themselves, who understand technology while they remain deeply ignorant of it. It is a common human response to hate and attack that which we fear.
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Khannea SunTzu (profile), 6 Aug 2013 @ 11:55pm

The people this dotmil critic alludes to are doing just fine, even if they live in their moms basement. And yes they get lots of attention, from girls and boys, who live under similar circumstances.

And yes, they are having massive impact, but not because of direct confrontational tactics - they expose. They expose how this system is crumbling before our very eyes. This strategy will have considerable impact on wall street. This strategy will bring down this monster. If the US collapses as an economic force, it can't afford a trillion dollar a year army now can it?

Obama is the new Gorbachev. Obama is curating the controlled demolition of the US. The battle on the interwebs is about deciding what this pile of rubble will become a few years in the future.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 12:39am

Re: Activists?
In a sense, this is correct, however.

What Hayden is utterly wrong about is the fact that there has been remarkably little violence threatened to those supporting the NSA. In fact, the only ones threatening violence...are the intelligence agencies...

The fearful act out of fear. The populace is acting out in a quiet rage. It is this which is the difference between the two groups.
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Androgynous Cowherd, 7 Aug 2013 @ 1:40am

There's a name for this.
The War on Terror is ridiculous enough without the specious addition of opponents of domestic surveillance and supporters of Snowden's whistleblowing to the "enemies" list.

When everyone, especially those that try to help, gets added to someone's "enemies" list, they call that "paranoia".
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martyburns (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 2:14am

Re: Re:
Political correctness doesn't apply to politics.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 3:45am

Re: Re:
Even the geeks in Universities get some loving.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 3:48am

Re: Re:
Ministry of Peace, Orwell said it first.
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The Real Michael, 7 Aug 2013 @ 5:06am

Re: Re: Activists?
Interesting how he attempts to lump certain people together with Al-Qaeda, the latter which, ironically, was created and funded by none other than the CIA.

Amusing how all it takes to scare the government into closing around down embassies is terrorist chatter. You'd think that after having invested trillions (with a T) of dollars into military and security, they'd be ready to thwart/defend against such a thing. I mean surely they knew the risks before setting up shop in foreign countries, so they would hav taken the necessary security precautions, right? If they really had picked up the chatter then how come they didn't zero in on the source? Are these terrorists really so sophisticated that we cannot even track them down?

Really, is the government trying to explain to us in coded dialect that they're all bumbling idiots?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 5:09am

...bronies*).

[*TBH, I don't really understand the last two either. But I have yet to attack them purely out of naivete.]

And this makes you at least 20% cooler than those who do.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 6:15am

Re: Threat level
I am trained in gorilla warfare

Here I am, picturing Dian Fossey (played by Sigourney Weaver) armed with a flamethrower taped to an MK47, leading an army of Silverbacks to sweet, sweet vengeance on the poachers.

Does this make me a bad person?

Also, the whole of that comment, while excruciatingly funny, has been reported as spam.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 7:23am

Funny, technological dinosaurs resorting to attempted personal attacks since they don't even comprehend the technology they are abusing to violate the constitution...
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 7:28am

Old man yells at clouds. Inexplicably people listen to him because he has bits of colored cloth and polished metal on his shirt most of which he 'earned' when he was a different person.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 7:31am

Re:
McCarthyism ...on the internet.
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Hephaestus (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 7:36am

Re:
"twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years" ...

By characterizing the opposition as social misfits, the NSA's supporters hope to sway public opinion back to its side.

With the center of the internet users bell curve moving up in age. The average "14 year old basement dwelling social misfit" is actually mid to late thirties at this point.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 8:29am

Re: The Challenge
The last time W. said "bring it on," they did.

Wonder if we'll find him in the exact same position trying to work the foot out of his mouth.
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JustSomePerson, 7 Aug 2013 @ 8:45am

Re:
As pointed out elsewhere, Rogers has painted a nightmare scenario of young nihilistic anarchist gay hackers.
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Noud Ligra (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 10:40am

While his comment was indeed ad hominem, falling for his bait and throwing poo back doesn't really make our case much better.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 10:56am

Redneck!
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 11:00am

9/11 was a controlled demolition. This was concluded by thousands of architects and engineers.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 11:15am

the insinuation that the opposition is largely comprised of sexless young adults is nothing short of insulting.

While it's a slight exaggeration, they probably used data about Rikou as the basis for this assertion.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 11:50am

Re: Your daily dose of applied godwinism
You should go ask Mike Rogers for your lunch money back, Poindexter.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re: Re:
Political correctness doesn't apply to politics.

Apparently so, irt Bob Filner (mayor of San Diego, former Congressman.).
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ltlw0lf (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re:
With the center of the internet users bell curve moving up in age. The average "14 year old basement dwelling social misfit" is actually mid to late thirties at this point.

And married, with children.
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John Fenderson (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Re:
It didn't even have to move. The average internet user has never been teenagers in basements. Before the internet was opened to the public, the average user was in their late 30s. The average fell to mid 20s when it opened up, and has risen since then.
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Anonymous, 7 Aug 2013 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: Re:
And a cop.
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GEMont (profile), 7 Aug 2013 @ 4:47pm

Hayden be Hatin' everyone who aint Hayden
Personally, I think the man is certifiable - a paranoid - and extremely dangerous to those around him and methinks he should be locked up in a soft fuzzy cell before he can explode and kill people he thinks are hackers or worse.... Twitters!!!

It really is no wonder that the NSA wants to know what everyone is talking about behind its back. It apparently only hires proven crazy people who think everyone is out to get'em.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Aug 2013 @ 5:28pm

Re:
who is this super-troll? what an asshole...
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Uriel-238 (profile), 8 Aug 2013 @ 12:17am

MIHOP or LIHOP
9/11 was a controlled demolition. This was concluded by thousands of architects and engineers.

How many times did I wish it was the case, at least the notion that the United States was resilient to the scheming of foreign militants, and that only a grand scale treachery from within would be enough to bring us down.

Certainly Bush's administration smacked of the kind of folks who'd pull something like this, and surely they resisted the 9/11 commission as if they were hiding something.

But I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure that what was apparent was what happened, that two cross-country jet liners full of fuel crashed into the WTC and brought the buildings down. We were open and vulnerable, and we let the horror of this single event predominate our fears and concerns so that we bleed money over a threat that didn't even create a bump in the mortality rate.

When our own government exploits our fears of terror to their own political ends (pulling power from the people into their own hands) does that make them terrorists as well?
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Joshua Bardwell (profile), 8 Aug 2013 @ 6:10am

"They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said, using a shorthand for US military networks. ... Who for them are the World Trade Centers?

So, two things:

1. Snowden just pwned the NSA. If that's not the "hackers' World Trade Centers," I don't know what is.

2. Dot-mil is so hardened? *cough*BradleyManning*cough*. Next!

What this douchebag fails to acknowledge is that the "hackers" who are going to pwn him don't need to use the kind of externally-originating attacks that he's thinking of when he says that "dot-mil is so hardened that you can't touch it." The "hackers" and "freedom activists" are already inside his gates.
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lurker, 8 Aug 2013 @ 9:02am

Response to: Noud Ligra on Aug 6th, 2013 @ 9:58pm
ctl + c
ctl + p
get off 4chan
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2013 @ 5:27am

To quote Commissioner Pravin Lal from Alpha Centauri:

'Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.'
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Teejay (profile), 12 Aug 2013 @ 11:38am

Hayden Speech @ BPC on Elec Grid Cyber Sec
Here's the link to the speech that Jennifer Hoelzer was referring to.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/314419-1
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the Lion, 12 Aug 2013 @ 11:54pm

Of course Hayden is critical of Snowden, if he agrees with Snowden Hayden is admitting that he himself committed crimes against the American People, it was Hayden who personally as head of the NSA when these programs were being set up, who is responsible for crimes against the US Constitution and the American People, in regards to the sharing of Data with the DEA and others for civilian criminal cases breaches of the Posse Commitatus act!

Hence Hayden will blame anyone and everyone but himself, he claims that the people are wrong in their attitudes that this is a major scandal, he however fails to realize that it is he and his political and military cohorts that are in fact shut up in their own little world, failing to see that they are not the important ones of the United States, the important people are in fact the General Public!
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Karen Smith, 13 Aug 2013 @ 6:24am

Snowden
Answer me this.

If the NSA was not spying on everyone's phone and internet conversations and recording them. Why are they bothering to go after Snowden for leaking top secret information??

The only reason to go after Snowden is if he was telling the truth.

Seems like they would have been better off calling Snowden a nut and letting him go then to try to bring him back for trial. The end times have begun folks.
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lars, 13 Aug 2013 @ 11:33am

uncle sam
it all started in ww 2 when the nazi would not allow american hollywood film makers send there movies to germany cause it might send the wrong message to the populas, ya know, propganda! remember this favorite qoute? im not a crook! or it depends on what your definition of is, is
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Cole, 13 Aug 2013 @ 11:38am

A Modest Proposal
I hate to say it, but the primary struggle here is marketing. The same folks who put together campaigns for anal wart medications sell us both wars and presidents. They sell us policies. We should approach this as marketers, and as they try to rebrand us as basement dwelling droolers, we should rebrand them as what they in fact are: a real and present danger to American democracy (such as it is), and criminals whose brutality and arrogance endangers American lives.

Michael Hayden is an un-indicted war criminal. He should be huddled with defense attorneys, not spewing jack-booted nonsense. There is a very good reason he continues to spin away - he knows that if this goes the "wrong" way, he could be prosecuted.

Every drone strike endangers American children.
NSA bureaucrats are snooping through your most private communications and sharing it with other spineless bureaucrats who hide in cubicles.
NSA bureaucrats and looking at you mother's medical records. Soon they'll start selling them to insurance companies so they can deny her live-saving medical treatment.
NSA bureaucrats are invading your children's privacy. It's up to you to stop them. Are you going to let them abuse your children at your expense?

Guys and gals, let's create a list of the most nefarious uses that could made of the information these bureaucrats unlawfully steal from every American. Let them try to prove they aren't doing it. Just one example: bureaucrats shared the private romantic phone calls of servicemen and women who were separated from each other because of service to America. Their lives were on the line and these snooping bureaucrats were passing the files among each other and laughing. Do we really want to pay their salaries?
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Budiyanto, 13 Aug 2013 @ 7:43pm

Obama
Woow....... positif.
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Jerry Francol, 14 Aug 2013 @ 5:39am

Go spy under your mom's dress!
I speak for Brazil a country unique in Latin Am�rica in that it backed US and his allies in the World WarII, at a loss of over 500 men in Italy and other 1500 at the seas.
This is how we get paid back, our loyalty is compensated by those idiots spying on us as if we were their slaves. Shame on you, bastards.
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buy-here-pay-here trollbuster (profile), 19 Aug 2013 @ 12:09am

Actually...
We could round up the majority of congress, the President, and the CIA upper echelons like Hayden, using their own terrorist by-association laws they passed. Those so-called Libyan Rebels we funded and aided in the destruction of Libya (so we could help install the central bankers) were on our top ten terrorist list since 911. Yep. Funny how our leaders DIDN'T round them up but gave them guns and aid instead... but hey, they'll get Snowden.
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buy-here-pay-here trollbuster (profile), 19 Aug 2013 @ 12:12am

Re: Actually...
Guess those laws are only for those of us not in the gravy train. The ones making the laws are exempt. Hmmmm.... now why does that seem familiar...
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Henry the Ninth, 21 Aug 2013 @ 10:47pm

Re:
He had one in his mouth just last night.
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Jon Gault, 3 Dec 2013 @ 6:59am

Hayden is Sophomoric
The inflammatory remarks by Hayden regarding opposition to the intelligence community demonstrate a lack of emotional maturity reminiscent of high school boys. When the intelligence community leaders are calling their opposition "14 year olds living in basements" while acting like one themselves is tantamount to school yard bullying and shows a distinct lack of intelligence on the part of the issuer.

I am a 50 something, advanced degree individual who served 7 years of military service to defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. Hayden and his counter parts are domestic enemies who got their hands caught in the cookie jar by Snowden and now they want to punish him for causing them so much embarrassment. They violated the law and cries of keeping us safe are empty retorts. It was Ben Franklin who proclaimed: �They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.� This was a sentiment echoed by many of our founding fathers. Hayden and his peers seem to be more pron to quotes from Animal Farm: "No animal shall sleep on a bed....with sheets".
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