NSA Staff Whining That President Obama Isn't Defending Them Enough

from the perhaps-there's-a-reason-for-that... dept

Fri, Oct 11th 2013 7:31am — Mike Masnick

Foreign Policy magazine has an article highlighting how NSA employees are pissed off that President Obama hasn't been defending the NSA strongly enough these past few months. While many (including us) have been quite critical of President Obama's weak defense of the NSA programs, folks inside Ft. Meade are pissed off that he's not out there defending them more strongly:

Gen. Keith Alexander and his senior leadership team at the National Security Agency are angry and dispirited by what they see as the White House's failure to defend the spy agency against criticism of its surveillance programs, according to four people familiar with the NSA chiefs' thinking. The top brass of the country's biggest spy agency feels they've been left twisting in the wind, abandoned by the White House and left largely to defend themselves in public and in Congress against allegations of unconstitutional spying on Americans.

Former intelligence officials closely aligned with the NSA criticized President Obama for saying little publicly to defend the agency, and for not emphasizing that some leaked or officially disclosed documents arguably show the NSA operating within its legal authorities.

"There has been no support for the agency from the President or his staff or senior administration officials, and this has not gone unnoticed by both senior officials and the rank and file at the Fort," said Joel Brenner, the NSA's one-time inspector general, referring to the agency's headquarters at Ft. Meade, Maryland.

Of course, one response to this is: too bad. Perhaps if the NSA didn't keep pushing the boundaries further and further out, and there were more courageous folks like Ed Snowden willing to speak up and say "what we're doing is wrong," those NSA employees wouldn't be dealing with this mess. And, of course, you'd hope that the NSA would employ grown ups who don't get all mopey because the President has other things to focus on.

While the President has defended the NSA programs a few times (on TV programs such as Charlie Rose and Leno, as well as in that one press conference in August), it is true that most of the defending has come directly from intelligence officials themselves, including Keith Alexander and James Clapper, as well as the NSA's big defenders in Congress. The higher ups within the administration have been fairly quiet. And, apparently what's pissing off many in Ft. Meade is that President Obama had embraced them so closely since he came to office. Despite expressing some skepticism about these kinds of activities while he was running for office, once he got into the White House, Obama's "embrace of the dark world of spycraft has been near-absolute."

Of course, some might argue in response that there's really not much else that the President can do at this moment. He's given a few statements about it, set up the ridiculous weak "review" board, and then has kind of had his hands full with things like Syria and a government shut down -- both of which are, certainly, issues that deserve his attention. The article quotes Brenner again, saying that the President should have gone to Ft. Meade and given them a pep talk. That seems a bit silly to me. If NSA employees need pep talks to keep morale up, it seems like they're in the wrong business.

A former NSA general counsel, Stewart Baker -- last seen here blaming civil libertarians for 9/11, blaming Senator Wyden for encouraging people to reveal NSA excesses and blaming privacy advocates for you having to get groped at airports -- is also quoted in the article whining that:

"The President is uncomfortable defending this. Maybe he spends too much time reading blogs on the left," Baker said. "That's fatal in cases like this. You have to make the case because nobody else will."

Yeah. It's those damn lefty blogs that are the problem (ignoring, of course, how much of the outcry have come from right-leaning and libertarian blogs). Of course, there is the possibility that President Obama is legitimately embarrassed over having the NSA's excesses come out. A couple years ago, we highlighted famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg talking about President Obama's response to whistleblowing (the discussion was about Wikileaks), and he speculated that Obama's incredible devotion to secrecy when it came to civil liberties violations and leaks might be because of pure embarrassment. As he noted, President Bush didn't care much for civil liberties, but he also was fairly upfront about that fact. President Obama, however, acted as if he did care about civil liberties, while behaving in a very different manner. Thus, it's entirely possible, as Ellsberg speculated years ago, President Obama is happy to do all of this so long as it stays secret. The second any of it comes out, he's ashamed by his own actions -- which might explain the less than full-throated support for these actions.

Still, as others point out in the FP article, if the rift is really that big, it's somewhat surprising that the President hasn't yet thrown either Alexander or Clapper under the bus, giving him the opportunity to pretend to blame them alone for the overreach. The President has already made the ridiculous claim that he only finds out what the NSA is doing from the press, so he could easily argue that the agencies have gone "rogue" and get rid of the leaders. But he hasn't done that.

Still, the potential of a growing rift between the White House and the intelligence community is worth watching as new bills are proposed to curb those agencies' excesses.

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Filed Under: barack obama, keith alexander, morale, nsa, nsa surveillance, stewart baker, white house

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silverscarcat (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 5:42am

Hey, NSA!
Welcome to America, where the people who are supposed to represent you don't.

Have a nice day. :)
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- Ninja (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 6:11am
  
  Re: Hey, NSA!
  It's amusing, they are complaining of a President that is supposed to represent the people who clearly HATE what the NSA has been doing and yet is the one that failed to live up to the expectations placed on him and made all the NSA circus possible. Ah the irony.
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- Fuckoff google, 11 Oct 2013 @ 2:54pm
  
  Re: Hey, NSA!
  I guess there is no honor among scumbags.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 7:53am

I'm pretty sure it has less to do with blogs on the left, and more to do with protecting himself. I'm willing to bet Obama's smarter than to get out there and spout the sort of easily disproven nonsense that Clapper and Alexander have been pushing.
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Paul, 11 Oct 2013 @ 7:53am

I can't wait to hear them whine as they are being collected, charged and arrested for their crimes against the people WHILE their sneaky/slimy little liars club is dismantled.

AND

As a warning to each and every future "Public Servant", James Clapper should be publicly castrated and allowed to bleed out........
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 7:56am
  
  Re:
  Way too far, man.
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  - Paul, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:25am
    
    Re: Re: Way too far, man????
    YES!! What he & his cohorts have done is "Way too far, man"! I only propose that the punishment should match the crime AND be a deterrent against similar "Way too far, man" crimes against the American People.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:53am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Way too far, man????
      What you propose would certainly fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" which is forbidden by the Constitution.
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      - Paul, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:40am
        
        cruel and unusual punishment forbidden by Constitution??
        You just made a point for me...... What Constitution are you referring to?? The one they null & voided with their sneaky interpretation of the Patriot Act?? The same one they have dismissed as in their way? Considering their defiance & abuse of the Constitution, how could they ever expect it to provide any protection for them??
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        Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:56am
        
        Re: cruel and unusual punishment forbidden by Constitution??
        I voted insightful as it is a valid point if you concede that the Constitution is truly dead. However you cannot advocate upholding the Constitution and attacking those who violate it by violating it yourself. That's a "ends justify the means" mentality which is what THEY use to try to justify their actions. The appropriate response is to advocate for their arrest and prosecution under the full due process of law UNDER the Constitution as it stands. The view is always better from the high road.
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        Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:07am
        
        Re: cruel and unusual punishment forbidden by Constitution??
        Even without the provisions in the Constitution against cruel and unusual punishment, I still believe what you are advocating would fall in violation of International Laws against "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment" (from Article 5 of Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted in 1948 by the UN General Assembly) so now are we throwing out both the US Constitution AND International Law?
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    - Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:08am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Way too far, man????
      No. When your weirdo revenge fantasies explicitly involve the genitalia of your opponents, you have gone too far.
      
      You are a gross weirdo.
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      - Paul, 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:06am
        
        Re: Weirdo??
        Weirdo?? Not by my standards... Possibly a little extreme, yes. But, as a 100% disabled & decorated US Naval Viet-Nam Veteran, I'm lucky I didn't have to give my life to protect your rights (as many of our fallen servicemen have). When was the last time you visited a US Veterans Hospital to see for yourself what the cost of freedom is?? I have given of myself to fight for and uphold the Constitution of the United States. I've paid an extremely personal & steep price which I believe allows me to promote extreme measures to assure our freedoms are no longer trampled. Public castration seems very fitting for their crimes against us.
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        Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:25am
        
        Re: Re: Weirdo??
        This is not to diminish the value of the service or the price that you and others like you willingly gave and paid or those who continue to give and pay. You are not the problem here. It is those who are sending those like you into harm's way for unjustified reasons that are. Do you have a right to be angry about that. Absolutely. But your logic simply doesn't hold up. I'm sorry but no, the experiences and sacrifices you made in service to the country do not allow you to advocate violating the Constitution in the name of upholding it no more than the experiences and sacrifices that General Clapper or General Alexander made in their service in this country's military allow them to justify their violation of the Constitution in the name of upholding it. It does not make sense.
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        Anonymous, 11 Oct 2013 @ 4:52pm
        
        Re: Re: Weirdo??
        "I'm proud to be a f****** weirdo." -Skylar Grey
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      - Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:36am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Way too far, man????
        I was with you until you resorted to the Ad Hom. That never strengthens an argument.
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  - Anonymous, 11 Oct 2013 @ 4:50pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Grow up, hippie. It's not the 60s anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 7:54am

Hey General Alexander, Obama has been VERY supportive of the NSA, he's just storing all of his defensive arguments at a neutral site.

You ignorant FUCK.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 7:59am

And, of course, you'd hope that the NSA would employ grown ups who don't get all mopey because the President has other things to focus on.
Well, that's what you get when you hire political cronies instead of professionals.
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Harold K, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:00am

NSA and the President
The NSA is upset the President does not defend them in their poor moral behavior. They really need an attitude adjustment!
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out_of_the_blue, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:04am

So, back to politics as usual... Or, rather, from tech to politics...
Mike, the NSA bounce is over. It's fading into background "normal" as I predicted: zero changes except that now most dolts are aware of it.

At best, you're being diverted like other sheep into the usual safe channels of politics and the defenses made for criminal activities, not the crimes.
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- silverscarcat (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:32am
  
  Re: You didn't predict a damn thing
  Stop acting so superior. You predicted NOTHING.
  
  Yes, the "news" networks, beholden to the powers that be, aren't covering the NSA as much, but the internet still covers it, so does other news outlets.
  
  Maybe you should lay off the LSD for awhile and go outside?
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Michael, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:11am

Dear Mr. President,

It has come to our attention that you have not been defending the actions of the NSA. We know you have a lot going on with the government being shut down and military actions to deal with around the world, but we have been doing a lot of spying for you and think you should support us in these efforts that you authorized.

You do not have to call a press conference or go on television in support of us, but for god's sake man, do you really have to belittle us? Just the other day, you were speaking with the PM on the oval office telephone and told him that you were embarassed by the behavior of our agency! Only days before that, we heard you talking about how James Clapper should resign when you were on a conference call with top democratic leaders!

If you are not going to defend us, at least keep your mouth shut.

-NSA
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Transmitte (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:26am

We've gone past double speak.

Cry me a fucking river NSA defenders. You got your hands smashed by the lid of the cookie jar you should not have been in in the first place and have the nerve to blame and whine while looking for sympathy for your wrong doings, nay, crimes against the American citizenry you're supposed to be protecting? Nope, not even remotely interested in your antics, take a hike.

I would like to see actual trials and hearings for all of those involved but we know it would just boil down to theater for the masses and some ultra light weight club fed visits and/or gentle wrist slapping. And sadder still, in 8-12 months time, a lot of this will be taking up space under the rug it swept under.
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Patrick B, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:33am

Yeah, but it's legal!
When the NSA defends itself by claiming that what they're doing is perfectly legal, all it does is exemplify how corrupt the entire legal system has become. Anyone with a conscience can see that the law and what's right/moral are miles apart at this point. All the law does is uphold the ever-growing criminality of those in power.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:39am

Waaaahhh!
"There has been no support for the agency from the President or his staff or senior administration officials, and this has not gone unnoticed by both senior officials and the rank and file at the Fort,"

There has been no support for the people of the world who have been swept up in your dragnet surveillance, either.
And THAT has not gone unnoticed, either!

Go cry me a river, asshole!
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:40am

Maybe? Maybe?
"'Maybe he spends too much time reading blogs on the left,' Baker said"... oh you know, Mr. Baker, exactly what blogs he reads as well as Michelle, Malia, Sasha and Bo.
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Me, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:46am

Everyone at the NSA now wear the same criminal label as those at the top. When Alexander and Clapper are lying about the NSA's wrongful activities, it's the activities of the worker ants at the NSA that they are covering for.... Everyone associated with the NSA needs to be ostracized from civil society.
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Anonymoose Custard (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:56am

Perhaps if...
Perhaps if the NSA weren't treasonous dogs, they'd have more Americans on their side.
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The Original Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:02am

If you keep it out of the press, people will forget about it
'nuf said.
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beech, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:14am

�"and for not emphasizing that some leaked or officially disclosed documents arguably show the NSA operating within its legal authorities."

We're not saying you broke the law, we're saying it's fucked up that you didn't have to. ... pretty sure someone on the Daily Show made that point when all this crap started coming out.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:21am

More of this please...
Please. That's the way. Attack the Administration more, but harder and with more intensity. This is a good strategy for you to go with. Please. Get the president to ask Holder to sick the DOJ attack dogs on the leaders of the NSA like he does on everyone else they don't like. Please. This will be a good thing. Meanwhile I will start hoarding popcorn.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 9:40am

How the F*** dares he?! That guy should've been FIRED by now! How's that for "defending him"?
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Brazenly Anonymous, 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:05am

Waahmbulance or threats?
Two highly divergent possibilities continue to exist side-by-side:

The NSA could easily be inept and failing, in which case this is little more than a temper tantrum.

The NSA could also be far more capable and delivering an ultimatum to Obama about blackmail they've got on him concerning certain blogs he may not want the public to find out about.

Watch Obama's reaction to this carefully.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 11:04am

A better idea
How about the "DOJ Arron Swartz treatment" ? No I guess that won't work as the DOJ is complicit and deserves the same treatment. We really need a higher authority, like "the people", we could pick representatives, write a set of rules to live by, form a justice system and everything would be good. Oh fuck, we did that and look where we are now! Maybe castration isn't such a bad idea after all.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 11:15am

Ah, thinking back to the days of the soviet union, when as it were, it would have been not just left but right wing americans who would have objected to the state listening in on all communications.
Now taking that stand is seen as leftist.

Exactly how far right has the US drifted.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 1:35pm
  
  Re:
  The right wing is just as upset about all this as the left. The only reason that the NSA is trying to assert otherwise is because they want to use the normal trick for distracting the American people: get us fighting with each other over things that don't matter, such as the right vs left tribal war.
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  - Pragmatic, 14 Oct 2013 @ 3:45am
    
    Re: Re:
    ^This. So much this. Don't fall for their B.S., people!
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 11:37am

There is this unstated undercurrent in all this, that maybe Obama encouraged the NSA to go far beyond what they normally did and now has been hung out to dry and take the heat from the public while Obama stays insulated from it. Pure speculation but the first thing that hit me when I started reading the article, whether intended or not.

That the NSA feels it needs heavy weights to defend it tells me they are worried about the responses the Snowden leaks are going to cause. Of course if they were operating within their mandates, this would never have been an issue.

Saying that they are operating legally to me stretches the word 'legally' just like so many other english language words have been redefined for the NSA's use. Claiming an illegal law makes it legal only works till if is officially made illegal. We see all the time where states make laws the courts later state are not legal and this one is no different for claiming legality.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2013 @ 1:02pm

dont you americans ever check a bill aginst the constitution before passing it into law, it would save money, time and lives disrupted by unconstitutional laws. it would preserve the prestige of government agencies.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 1:38pm
  
  Re:
  I want to live in your dream world. Legislation is rarely, if ever, checked for how Constitutional it is prior to passing.
  
  The attitude is that it's the judicial branch's job to determine Constitutionality, and the judicial branch can't rule on anything until there's been a court challenge, which can't happen until it's law.
  
  It's messed up in the extreme.
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T, 11 Oct 2013 @ 1:48pm

NSA, you got busted and not even that ignorant hypocrite can cover for you. Ain't it a bitch.
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Arnold, 11 Oct 2013 @ 2:06pm

NSA COWARDS
Just what to expect from window peeping voyeurs. I bet they peep on their own children. Disgusting, despicable, treasonous, ANTI-American.
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Cold Wind, 11 Oct 2013 @ 3:13pm

Stop whinning and obey the Constitution
General. At some point there will be something like the Nuremberg trials for those in government who broke their oath (like you)and trashed the Constitution. Stop spying on American citizens now. Stop the dragnet and you might be cut some slack. What would really help your case is if you tell us who really killed JFK ?, did 9-11 and how, what really happened at Bengazi, at the Boston Marathon, and where Obama was really born. etc.
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Thebes, 11 Oct 2013 @ 8:53pm

I look forward to the day that Clapper and Alexander will be hanged for their various treasons against the People of the United States of America.
Now, I am a reasonable fellow, and am happy to wait until after the revolution, and I even want to see them given a fair trail.
But then I really do hope to see a video of them being hanged on You Tube.
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Howard T. Lewis III (profile), 11 Oct 2013 @ 10:14pm

Obummer the lobopresident
You see what happens when you slack off and let lobotomy subjects, pedophiles, molesters, Wall Street looters, genocidal racists, the Bush criminal cabal, the Rothshchild bank owned American press and CFRtv, Vatican SCOTUS, and other riff-raff be voted in on a fraudulent vote? American voter FAIL!
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Biffbitrot (profile), 22 Oct 2013 @ 2:57pm

slippery slope
Well it looks like the Supreme Court won't make their ruling on the constitutionality of the NSA's phone call, sms and toilet cam traps until someone directly affected by them brings a suit directly before the Supremes. And in that case the NSA can continue stealing information as long as they don't use it in anyone's prosecution. If the calls happen to snag a terrorist they can try to find a different way to get evidence and foil the plot and if they fail, they can just not mention it and even use the "secret - undiscovered" plot as an excuse for MORE surveillance. In the meantime they can use the info they gather any damn way they please ie industrial espionage, an administrations enemies list, blackmail etc. (People at NSA ask for "trust? You don't get what you've ALREADY broken.) What I'm wondering is whatever happened to the phrase "slippery slope"? Wasn't that always supposed to be an unofficial guiding principle for the courts and even the police and prosecutors? Something to remind them of when they crossed the line and something they respected? Or has the concepts of shame, common decency, respect for the American people and their constitution completely eluded Mr. Keith Alexander et al.?
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Chris, 21 Nov 2013 @ 10:52am

This Good Article
Hello. I am American and I want complain as much as possible about things being different than I would do them. I have no real experience nor do I understand the overwhelming complexities of any government system, I didn't even go to college, but I have opinions and I'm going to fucking share them with you. That's what we do. We complain, consume large amounts of psychoactive stimulants as a standard corporate practice because it makes us temporarily interested in mundane details. And when the stimulants wear off, I'll let you know what's wrong with the world, except my own, which is perfect. Hup ho, I am educated and I will tell you exactly what I would do and how those other people are idiots. Yep. I am a real human and I have a real computer. I don;t even have to show you my face or tell you my name. I can just read all day long, find things I disagree with, and then spend hours letting similarly undereducated people know what I am thinking from minute to minute. I am going to force my ideas up every orifice I can find using the latest technology - twitter, facebook,RSS, CNN, etc. Then, I'll find in 10 years this post still exists and it was a fucking waste of my life..and yours because I chose to spend a portion of my limited life offering my empty opinions and wants to complete strangers that don't give a fuck, and for which nobody is going to scroll down a page to read this inane bullshit. Bless this great land. Bless the Redneck States and bring them Slim Fast.

P.S. Please keep illegally tracking my searches, thoughts, and behaviors. It is essential to survival of this nation that Google be a repository for every thought I had in the last 20 years and for them to analyze patterns and conclude on my character...and pass it on to other law-breaking organizations for their similar uses. Thanks Sergey, thanks Larry. I know when you guys were in your dorm this is exactly what you wanted to happen. At least you got rich selling out. Fuck the rest of us. Now you can afford more BigMac & Whoppers than anybody else!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2014 @ 3:13am

Everyone posting on this page had their webcams turned on, facebook friend list profiled and branched to make associations and archives of all skype conversations pulled to be further looked at by an agent. your porn tastes have been logged and a profiling has been stored in the event of future un-patriotic behavior. You have been warned citizen, now be quiet, be good and enjoy the kool aid
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jun 2014 @ 11:20am

What happened to Alexander's vibriting armchair? Did he get to keep it?
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