This Weekend's Rally Against NSA Surveillance Gaining Steam
from the join-in dept
If you haven't been following, a very large coalition of folks worried about NSA surveillance activities have put together the Stop Watching Us Rally, taking place on this Saturday in DC. As folks prepare for the rally, it appears to be gaining a lot of steam and support, including via an excellent new video featuring a combination of politicians, actors, activists and whistleblowers talking about the importance of our privacy.
The NSA's supporters keep acting like this is no big deal and it will all blow over, but that seems less and less likely.
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Filed Under: dc, nsa, nsa surveillance, rally, stop watching us
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The NSA is out of control.
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Re: The NSA is out of control.
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I don't remember Bush ever talking about transparency.
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Re: The NSA is out of control.
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Yeah, no.
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Nice to see Techdirtbags aligned with Teabaggers. That's a match made in heaven.
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Wait, I thought this was a pinko liberal rag. I'm confused.
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Wait, I thought this was a pinko liberal rag. I'm confused.
It's the symbiosis of nut jobs.
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/S
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A little bit of self retrospection might be in order here, former friends are now starting to become enemies, why? It couldn't be because of what the arrogant US does, could it?
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Having my rights taken away over a false fear is more terrorizing than a suicide bomber.
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Re: /S
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Has anyone argued that? No. Are you so obnoxious that you have to sink to building up strawmen in your quest to disagree with everything we write? Yes.
You're incredible.
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BTW, I expect that at some time in the future Snowden will be patted on the back with one hand, and placed in handcuffs with the other. Some may choose to view him solely in the light of being a whistleblower, but those of us who have worked extensively within areas of government heavily dependent upon classified information have substantial questions concerning his activities and as a consequence have a significantly different perspective.
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Cost/benefit constitutionality !!!!
Is that why its ok for Google to spy, and NSA not so much ?
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NSA spying = Intercepting vast quantities of private communications well above and beyond their remit that are arguably illegal, breach national sovereignty and cause chilling effects with little or no oversight.
Google "spying" != NSA spying
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oh right, and you think Google wants or cares if you "give permission" or not, and how do you "know what they are doing"???
Oh that's right, you don't have a clue, and you certainly are not going to find out about it here !
And finally, do you think if you have not "given your permission" it would make ANY difference to what Google does ?
So you don't really know what they are doing, and they don't give a shit if you give your permission OR NOT, so your point is again ?
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Of course it does. If I'm not using Google's services and am blocking all traffic to Google, it absolutely makes a difference. Google can no longer spy on me.
There is no such option with governmental spying.
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If he had a 'firm grip" on what these agencies were really doing he would not have to rely on 'questionable' information from a single source (Snowden) for all his information.
I have yet to see anything 'from' Snowden that I trust, nor do I trust Snowden himself, Though I have seen enough of Snowden's actions to make me question his motives and integrity.
Like integrity, trust is earned, and its earned by actions not words.
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An agency dealing in classified information cannot expect the benefit of the doubt. They need to release sufficient information to justify their practices. We need to cut back on government spending. These programs cost a lot of money. Prove they are worth it.
If the agency can't find some way to declassify sufficient information to make that case, then the agency must lose a substantial portion of its funding in order to force disclosure.
If the people cannot exercise their rights over their government, even to the point of disbanding these agencies completely if that is their choice, then this is not a free country. The only free and democratic solution to an uninformed populace is to inform them. If the NSA refuses, then the tyrannical organization is a greater threat to our freedom than anything they are guarding against.
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There has yet to be such a claim provided with evidence. Without evidence, the claim is worthless.
But even aside from that, the claim is irrelevant. The domestic spying is abominable and unconstitutional. If the program were 100% effective, that wouldn't make the spying more acceptable or magically transform it into being constitutional.
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It is foolishly naive of the intelligence community if they are actually relying on their spying methods to remain secret. This simply opens the door for a misinformation campaign.
As such, the gain from secrecy surrounding already deployed and in use methods is far to tenuous to be a substantial case when set against the harm caused by what is a civil rights violation.
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I understand that, but that's beside the point. The point is that absent the evidence (whatever the reason for the evidence's absence), any claim by the government is worthless as it amounts to just a wordier version of "trust us."
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You may not have argued for 'disbanding' them but I certainly know you have argued to 'defund' them. Or is that just TD 'tricky' word play ?
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(hee, hee)
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Also, maintaining an illusion of free speech helps the Government's position.
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so are you already trying to think up excuses why no one comes to this, and 'the rest' don't care.. nice work..
The Media WILL BE SOMEWHERE ELSE, and certainly doing something MORE INTERESTING, but they wont need to be told to do that.
See, Major news reports on "major news" and things that are of interest to the majority.
Quite honestly, no one cares anymore, and most don't share the unnatural hate for the Government that TD and Mr Masnick tries to incite.
So you right that the major news wont be there, but wrong as to why they wont.
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SUCK IT!
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The first rule of DC cause-related protests, is don't be embarrassing. This was, by even the most charitable yardstick, an abject failure. You don't scare official Washington with group of 1000 that includes Code Pink (pacifists) gay groups, Teabaggers, black activist groups, Occupy Wall Street and the homeless. Those groups were there to wave their flag for their cause. They were there for the free publicity (such as it was).
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http://millionmaskmarch.org/
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/26/us-usa-security-protest-idUSBRE99P0B420131026
but that's about it for major outlets.
ABC - nothing
CBS - nothing
CNBC - nothing
CNN - nothing
Fox - nothing
NBC - short video: http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/53383405/
OTOH, The Guardian had a good piece:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/26/nsa-rally-stop-watching-washington-snowden
but that's about it across the pond.
In other words, the "rally" got very little attention, anywhere. Sure hope Congress was watching, but I don't hold out much hope.
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Going to be response here on TD
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It's going to be sunny with a high of 58. I wonder if Masnick is coming or if he only comes to DC to lobby; rather than mix with the unwashed. Hell, I doubt if any of Techdirt's keyboard anarchists will actually show up for this or any other similar event. If you do locate your gonads, please wear your Techdirt t-shirt so the cops will know who's most in need of a little spritz of teargas. Gorehound, this would be a great event for you. You do nothing but talk. Here's your big chance to do something and chill with your fellow whack-jobs. Remember ersatz activists; pot is legal in DC now and the cops would probably appreciate it if you offered them a joint. Now that the government shutdown is over, don't forget to stop by the Jefferson Memorial. The dance floor has been newly resurfaced and is open for business!!!
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Hard to believe they'd do this with all of those people already flooding into DC for the opportunity to see the keynote speaker, former Congressman Dennis "I thot I taw a flying saucer" Kucinich. Vendors will be selling limited edition, souvenir tinfoil hats, so get there early!! Also, be sure to smile so the NSA facial recognition software gets a good match for you.
Here's the link: https://rally.stopwatching.us/gettingthere.html
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I recall reading the same type of disdainful comments concerning the SOPA Blackout and the Europe ACTA marches.
If your type of comments are any indicator as to the overall implications of such endeavors then this march is going to be a huge success. Have a nice day!
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http://rt.com/usa/stop-watching-us-rally-791/
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Shit, they didn't even get as many protestors as The Million Puppet March - where approximately 1,500 people and puppets marched in support of continued funding for public broadcasting. How embarrassing is that?
So looks like "c" is for cookie and "f" is for failure.
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I have no doubt these people wanting better and expecting better from their government that represents them as well as the politicians put there not to work on their own ideology but rather to do the will of the people will in for some serious candid camera shots from various hidden places as well as out in the public areas.
You know as much camera stuff is going on, I am very surprised there isn't already an underground doing something about the spying by rendering cameras inoperable in one form or another. I don't think it would take a lot more to push the public that way.
The arrogance of the US is coming home to roost. I don't imagine the officials that set it all up (those still in office that is) will be too happy with it. So far from those officials mostly we have had a lot of lying and misdirection but very little on the side of let's fix this to guarantee the public it's right to privacy. That particular part I am yet to hear in all this from them. It's like those words leave a bad taste in their mouths or something. Nothing short of that is going to calm the public down.
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Re: NSA Protest in WashedOut DC
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It's not that 'he knows better than you' it's that he knows something and it appears you don't !!
is it possible he does not live in a world of absolutes, its clear he understand that people will abuse things, as also he understands that its quite stupid to just state "no good has ever come from this" or that "all this spying has never helped stop or slow down a terrorist".
The world is not binary, nothing is perfect, rarely are things "black and white" or "one or zero", that a large organization 'can never make mistakes' that a large organization can never have individuals who abuse their position.
People will simply not take you seriously if you claim that a group like the NSA can be perfect, and at the same time assume nothing they do has ANY affect on what they are trying to do.
Or that somehow a group like the NSA would be able to determine terrorist activity without first looking at a wide community.
How do expect someone to identify if someone or a group is conducting terrorists activity with first looking ? and if you look, that does not mean they are doing anything wrong, they might be or they might not, but how can you possibly tell without first looking.
Also if you constantly "USE/ABUSE" the NSA as a vehicle for your hatred of the Government, it devalues your argument, yes, we know you got a hate on for the Government, you hate everything they do, therefore you attack the NSA because its the present "whipping boy". But it does not help your argument one bit to do that.
In sporting terms its called "playing the man, and not the ball"
It appears you don't like spying, unless that spying is "on your side" then you are totally happy with it, and will use the product of that spying for your own gains. So which is it ?
So spying is ok as long as its you doing it ? but nothing the Government does is ever ok, because well its THE GOVERNMENT !!!!
So Google spying is ok, after all it what puts food on the table for you. But it "the (evil) Government" does it its evil.
If Snowden does it its ok, because you gain from it, if Google does it that's ok too because you gain from it.
If NSA does it, that is not ok, because its the "Govment". They are only doing it to try to help protect the people, not gouge money from people or to directly profit you.
People see this as a problem for you, yet it appears you cannot see it. Rage and hate will do that !!!
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You're raging pretty hard yourself, judging by how incoherently you type.
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oh right, what about ?
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Or that a large organization would abuse their power as a matter of policy. You're correct, no person or entity is perfect and there will always be abuses. That's exactly why there are certain types of powers that they should never be allowed to have. Such as the power to spy on everyone without cause.
When you take someone's expression of deep concern over specific actions and say that's just a symptom of some blanket hatred, you weaken your argument considerably. It's a combination of a straw man and ad hom argument. In sporting terms its called "playing the man, and not the ball."
This borders on the nonsensical, but let me try to spell it out for you.
Blanket government spying on the citizens is not OK for a lot of very solid reasons (which is why it's unconstitutional). It is destructive to individuals, and destructive to the nation.
Snowden and Google are not the government, do not have the power of government, can't throw you in prison, ruin you financially, or kill you with impunity.
And you cannot compare Google spying with governmental spying, as Google's spying is optional. It's easy to avoid, and there is no law requiring you to submit to it. The government's spying is non-optional.
Irrelevant. History has show repeatedly that when the government is allowed to do things like this, the end result is always a terrible one. Even if the initial intentions are good and pure, eventually the power will be abused and innocent people will be harmed.
Besides, the government doesn't get to choose what freedoms the citizens have.
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"Gaining Steam".
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A rally like this one, where the point of the rally is well and clearly made, can have significant effects in its own right. The lobby day and the petition make it very difficult to dispute the point of the rally.
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Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying
“Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying”, Chicago Tribune (Reuters), Oct 26, 2013
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Re: Hundreds march in Washington against NSA spying
“Anti-NSA rally attracts thousands to march in Washington”, by Bart Jansen and Carolyn Pesce, USA Today, Oct 26, 2013
Reuters says hundreds, USA Today says thousands…
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real attendance - you judge
I don't think that this movement caught on, perhaps a reflection that the vast majority of people aren't concerned, because they have nothing to hide.
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Re: real attendance - you judge
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