Latest Twist On DRM Of Physical Products: Machines Locked Down By Geolocation
from the and-you-thought-you-owned-it dept
Despite overwhelming evidence that the public hates DRM, companies persist in coming up with new ways to impose it in an effort to control how their products are used. Here's the latest twist, pointed out to us by @dozykraut:
On Practical Machinist, there's a fascinating thread about the manufacturer's lockdown on a high-priced, high-end Mori Seiki NV5000 A/40 CNC [computer numerical control] mill. The person who started the thread owns the machine outright, but has discovered that if he moves it at all, a GPS and gyro sensor package in the machine automatically shuts it down and will not allow it to restart until they receive a manufacturer's unlock code.
As the Boing Boing article quoted above explains, this seems to be a requirement of the US government, and is designed to prevent machines being sent to Iran in violation of the embargo placed on that country. But of course, the ramifications are much wider:
now these machines can't be moved at all without the manufacturer's knowledge and consent, a situation that the manufacturers have turned into a business-opportunity by using the technology to assist in repossessing machines from delinquent lease-payers -- and requiring permission for privilege of deciding where to place their key capital assets.
What's particularly troubling is that the cost of adding GPS capabilities is already low, and will inevitably become lower. That raises the possibility of a wider range of devices being locked down by geolocation -- and of their owners' rights being eroded down even more.
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Filed Under: cnc machines, drm, geolcations, physical drm
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Sure, they'd start out crude... And you'd have to develop the control software... But it could be done, and improved rapidly via iterative development...
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Wat
I'd have thought GPS was precise enough to distinguish between "moving it across the shop" and "shipping it to Iran."
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It would only need to check against the boundaries on a 2D plane (also known as a map). It's quite a trivial thing to do.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wat
Set HomeLocation
Check CurrentLocation
If CurrentLocation != HomeLocation
Shut Down
Why worry about boundaries on a plane if you can just worry about a single point?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wat
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You're making it out to be more difficult than it really is in an attempt to win an argument you've already lost.
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Anyone worried that a couple lines of code is too complicated is suffering from 'head up the ass' syndrome.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wat
You never know some country might stop the NSA tapping their comms lines (or another terrible thing in the USAs eyes like piracy/privacy, both are bad m'kay) tomorrow and they will need to be controlled like Iran.
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Re: Wat
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As soon as you move the machine, the gyroscope locks the machine down. You call the mill maker and they send you an unlock code. When you punch that in, the machine must be where you said it is or else it won't unlock.
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Re: Wat
It's also easy enough to spoof (see: extremely weak signal). The encoding used by the GPS signal is public, and it's not authenticated.
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HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140109/AUTO0102/301090127/1361/
WHY THE HELL AREN'T YOU WORRIED ABOUT YOUR CARS?
HOW THE HELL CAN I TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY WHEN YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE EVERYDAY SURVEILLANCE?
The phony deal that evil people (and gullible fools) try to force on us: You can't have the benefits of technology unless give up all privacy.
07:56:58[i-137-4]
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Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
The GPS in those cars is installed to primarily benefit the customer when they want to use things like, oh I don't know, the navigation system? Something that people like to have in order to find their way around?
Yes, there is definitely a possibility it could be used for "everyday surveillance", maybe even by your favorite scapegoat Google. However, it still requires customers to give consent for the systems to be used.
The 'GPS and gyro sensor package' in the CNC mill provides absolutely zero benefit to the customer, just like regular DRM. The only one who's better off in this situation is the manufacturer.
Please stop and digest this before you start ranting again.
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Re: Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
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Re: Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
There is actually plenty of benefit for the customer, just not what you might think.
CNC mills are very delicate, and in order to perform and produce parts to very high tolerances, the machines themselves must be properly installed and maintained. That means even a slight movement (say, dragging it across your shop to the other side) may be enough to cause problems - and thus produce poorer quality parts.
As a company, if you use the machine and think everything is in tolerance but it is not, the parts you produce may not work properly, may not fit, or in a worst case scenerio may fail in operation and cause injury or death to the end consumer of the parts made with the CNC machine.
It's obviously to great benefit to the owner of a CNC machine to have it installed propertly and maintained properly, and it's also of great benefit to the company making the CNC machines to be able to prove if the machine was properly installed by their technicians or not if a lawsuit comes down the pipe. There is a whole lot of benefit for everyone involved here.
Moreover, if you then decide to sell your machine shop to someone else, being sure that the equipment was properly installed would be a plus in the sale price.
Pushing it as "DRM" is crap, the whole "it moved to Iran" thing is only a sideline in the deal. Assuring that the machines work as intended, and that user of the machine does not inadvertently cause it to produce defective parts is key here, and very critical all the way to the consumer marketplace.
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Re: Re: Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
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Re: Re: Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
Oh, please.
What would be a benefit to the customer might be a warning message that says that the machine detected movement that is out of spec, and it needs to be serviced.
Just locking it down is not a benefit for anybody but the manufacturer.
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Re: HOLY CRAP! TECHDIRT IS STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
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Hm
Then the cynical side of me points out that if they can do it in something huge like a CNC mill, what's stopping companies like Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo from eventually doing something similar when the next round of consoles comes out?
What if the video game industry decides they really want to enforce the whole "region-lock" thing? Got that new PS5/Xbox4.0 in a country where it's not being released yet/won't ever be released due to whatever stupid regulation?
Those gaming companies won't even have to worry about you using their product where you're not supposed to, even if you're not hooked up to the net! They'll just use the GPS and gyro sensor package they installed in the machine and turned the expensive console you bought with your own money into a big fat doorstop.
Yes, it's hyperbolic, but that's where I can see stuff like this headed, depending on how small they're able to make the gyro sensor/GPS package.
Seriously, who the hell thought Physical DRM was ever a good idea anyway?
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Re: Hm
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Re: Hm
Small enough to fit in smartphones today.
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Re: Hm
"Oh, you want to have an XBox party? Then you need to subscribe to our Party Package for a nominal fee!"
It's already bad enough my DVR is useless when I lose the internet connection. Yes, I understand it's to keep me from recording stuff and taking the box to a friends house. But when the cable is out I can't even watch the shows I recorded for when the cable goes out :/
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Re: Re: Hm
The implementation on the machine tool is more like you moved it from one side of the TV to the other so you now need to get a new unlock code.
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It's the same excuse that many other companies use making products that phone home when it comes to "Piracy". This is clearly meant to be enforcement of EULAs across the board. Or to program planned obsolescence into their products (see: every console video game that used multiplayer that was released a decade earlier).
It's really not surprising that larger machines have adopted this as well, especially considering that CNC machine costs as much as my car (which may also fail in the future once the manufacturer decides that I need to upgrade it).
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http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/mori-ellison-gyroscope-unlo cking-273841/#post2145512
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I was taught to do something similar on cars. I'd chalk-mark parts before work was done, so I could tell afterwards if they'd moved stuff they shouldn't've or failed to move stuff they ought to have. Worst case was catching a dealer trying to tell me they'd put a completely new transmission in (manufacturer recall, the transmission was to be completely pulled and replaced, housing and all), but there on the "new" transmission were the exact chalk marks I'd put on the old one marking the alignment with the engine and the drive shaft.
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These don't use GPS
Still, companies are taking advantage of the Federal rules to squeeze their customers. Just as the commercial airlines have used TSA regs to make it impossible for you to resell your airline tickets as I remember doing many years ago.
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Time to invest
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Out of Business
I suppose you could sell it for scrap....
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Re: Out of Business
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Re: Out of Business
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GPS inside a factory??
This sounds bad and it really is, But as was said, I am much more worried about what happens if they go out of business. Since I've worked on CNC's that are 20-30 years old w/control systems that are from companies that don't exist anymore. Old software, mod's, on and on and on with possible problems.
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That someone is the US government, which in the past few years lost all of its credibility.
So again they do something really stupid and say its because "muh terrorists"
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Liability
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Second, 90% of all mills and lathes come from China.
Third - there are a NUMBER of conversion kits, to turn regular mills and lathes into CNC machines, and has been for a long time. I remember the battleBot builder association SORC buying and installing a conversion kit in 1999.
Fourth -mills and lathes and CNC machines are not that complex. In fact they're a lot simpler than atomic weapons to construct. So, if you're worried about constructing a bomb, and don't want them to do it, trying to den them a much simpler tool used for it, aint going to work. Especially not when there are even open source kits out there. After all, how well did the Ban on CNC machines hamper the Manhattan project? (I know the ban was temporal, in that they hadn't been invented at that point, but the US made them without needing a CNC)
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Lets see how well they get stopped, eh?
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geolocation locks are already out there
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Re: geolocation locks are already out there
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Not the first device to do this
Someone at Sprint told me when I first got it that it's due to export regulations, and I know I've heard of satphone users getting in trouble in countries whose governments are also monopoly phone companies. Maybe it's that, maybe they need location data on every phone to share with the mighty US government. Who knows? Either way it's annoying as hell.
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Re: Not the first device to do this
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Re: Re: Not the first device to do this
Perhaps you were thinking of repeaters, which require no GPS antenna but wouldn't help us as much since the coverage in our neighborhood is terrible in general, even for the two big guys.
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Re: Not the first device to do this
First, Sprint has a license to the frequency used by the femtocell which is restricted to a geographic area. This is not like wifi, which is unlicensed. Within that geographic area, only Sprint is supposed to use that frequency; outside it, the frequency can be reserved to someone else.
Second, for operational reasons even within the geographic area they have to know the precise location of every femtocell. On a cellular system, all cells are sized and have frequencies chosen to avoid inter-cell interference and to allow for a specified level of service. This also applies to femtocells: if they are put somewhere unexpected, they can mess with the careful planning.
Third, they have to be able to locate (and remotely disable) the femtocell in case it's misbehaving and causing interference.
A femtocell is just an extension of the operator's wireless infrastructure. It's part of the operator's cellular network.
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In today's age, there's little excuse for not at least having a basic idea of how to build your own stuff, instead of being dependent on a third party that can at any time become an adversary.
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I advocate a middle road: have enough personal friends so that at least one of them is competent in any given field.
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BenKrasnow: Viewing an active electronic circuit with a scanning electron microscope
BenKrasnow: DIY Custom LCD
http://buildyourcnc.com/
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-CNC/
http://hackaday.com/2013/10/24/a- very-professional-homemade-cnc-router/
http://diylilcnc.org/
MIT: Paper Speakers.
I love being a hacker yay!
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Re:
Where do start the process of building your own stuff, prospecting for the raw materials, working from refined materials, or using pre-built parts. If you really want to be independent of third parties, start investigating stone age technology, as that is about all that a single person or small group can mange without dependencies of external manufacturers.
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Do you want to learn how to build a high quality ribbon microphone?
http://www.diyaudiocomponents.com/ribboninfo.php?sub=1
Is simple, just a pair of magnets and a thin metallic ribbon, also they can work as loud speakers.
I know that some here will be very interested in that since they are involved in audio production.
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You certainly can, just its cheaper (in time and materials) to buy it in.
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Line of Sight
If the mill is located outside, GPS would not be a problem, unless they were in the bottom of a canyon. Do they often locate CNC mills outdoors? Indoors, no one will have any idea where the device is, via GPS.
It is far more likely that the device requires Internet access and the locating is done by IP address.
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Re: Line of Sight
Sortof. GPS needs to be able to see the signals from at least three GPS satellites. Completely unobstructed view to the satellites is not necessary -- I can get a GPS lock inside the office building I work at, even though I'm nowhere near a window. However, GPS signals are also very, very weak and are easily obstructed. Some buildings (like yours) will obstruct the signals, while others (like mine) will not, regardless of direct line of sight. It all depends.
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I don't know how that GPS check is done, but in the worst case with the GPS embedded in the main chip controller, one could possibly dump the original set of instructions, emulate everything and bypass the GPS apparatus to a dummy GPS emulator that would give always the same coordinates.
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They will never learn.
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And 3d printing is on the rise
Buckle in people, a new front is opening up.
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GPS spoofing?
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Re: GPS spoofing?
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well. well. well....
by making their databases to handle at least more than a million records,if not billions, a year plus the cost of maintaining and updating such database....
I mean add gps system to a device? cars, I can understand that as well as other TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS as they need those so they won't get lost during their travel/journey... especially in airplanes and ships.
but on other computer device other than a handheld device on the purpose of tracking the device, other than using the map/weather app in any mobile device, to put an AUTO SHUT OFF system if it goes out of bound and must wait for the company to send it's reactivation code to use it again from a different location?
add more cost to the product to justify it?
oh well... more reasons for Jailbreakers to kick up their technical skills to counter such lockdown...
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Boy that'll really fix the economy won't it?
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Wait for the monetization of this concept....
Don't worry, once you move your machine back within your home location radius, you can re-activate your machine for only $1000. (US cash only, no checks please).
If you would like to purchase a 100 mile radius license, the option is available for only $10,000, 1000 mile radius license available for only $100,000, 10,000 mile radius license for only $1,000,000 (you get the picture, call us and we will sell you the license you need at an appropriately gouging price).
Trademark/Copyright/Patent Pending... all your license are belonging to me.... muahahahaha
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Hot Products http://www.ecvv.com/hot-products/index.html
Lighting report http://ledlightings2013.blogspot.com/
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