TSA To Gun Show Attendees: Don't Think You're Getting On Board With Your Bullet-Encased-In-Acrylic Keychains
from the without-a-doubt,-we-are-now-safer-than-we've-ever-been-before dept
The TSA worries too much. It should take a year or two (or forever...) off. Even though it doesn't think the next wave of terrorist attacks will target airplanes and fliers, it still cracks down on anything that even slightly resembles a weapon ("guns" that belong to puppets, purses with bejeweled "brass knuckle" clasps).
The agency recently reminded people flying into Vegas to attend the annual Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor Trade Show (SHOT Show) that they'll need to be extra careful about what souvenirs they want to bring home with them.
McCarran and the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority issued a summary sheet of TSA rules — listing what can and can’t be taken in carry-on bags and checked luggage — to show representatives to pass along to attendees.All of this is (somewhat) common knowledge. Weapons of any sort (even ones that don't use bullets) are frowned upon by the TSA. Most gun owners know these rules and follow them. But this is what the TSA used as an example of the sort of thing it wouldn't be happy to see making its way through security.
A basic rule of thumb: You can’t take a gun or anything that looks like one in a carry-on. That includes firearms, flare guns, pellet guns, BB guns, compressed air guns, starter pistols, gun parts, realistic replicas of firearms, ammunition, paintball markers, plastic explosives, hand grenades or realistic replicas of explosives…
There’s also a short list of things you can’t take in carry-ons or checked bags: flares, gun lighters or gunpowder, including black powder and percussion caps.
Yes, it's a single bullet, encased in acrylic and attached to a keychain. This little fellow caused quite the delay in 2012 as the TSA confiscated dozens of these keychains in order to prevent terrorism from breaking out on flights leaving Las Vegas.
The operative theory (apparently) was that departing aircraft would be filled with bullets which, once freed from their acrylic prison, could be loaded into a gun or guns safely stowed away in the luggage compartments underneath the cabin of the plane. Or maybe the fear was that the bullets would be freed and the gunpowder used to create some sort of explosive.
To follow this logic, you have to assume that terrorists attended a gun show solely to pick up "non-suspicious" trinkets to assemble on board in order to hijack or sabotage the plane. This would also need the supporting assumption that several terrorists would have successfully made it past screening without being flagged by the TSA's crack team of Behavioral Detection Officers or by the statistical perversity of random selection.
Or, more likely, there's no logic. The rules say "no gunpowder" and bullets encased in acrylic likely contain gunpowder, therefore keychains attached to single bullets encased in acrylic are "no go." There's no room for logic when you've got a list.
Does anyone feel safer knowing the TSA is on the lookout for items like these? Does anyone breathe a sigh of relief upon seeing the confiscation of these trinkets and say, "Thank god. I wouldn't want a bullet in a block of acrylic on board with me?" No, more likely the reaction of those boarding flights with SHOT Show attendees felt just as annoyed by the needless delay. Maybe they rolled their eyes and thought, "Of course they'd confiscate that. It's in the gun 'family.'" Maybe a few blamed the gun show attendees for the delay but I seriously doubt a single person thought any of the TSA agents were "earning their paycheck," or successfully combating terrorism, by confiscating these souvenirs.
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ammunition
"That includes firearms, flare guns, pellet guns, BB guns, compressed air guns, starter pistols, gun parts, realistic replicas of firearms, ammunition, paintball markers, plastic explosives, hand grenades or realistic replicas of explosives…
"
so a bullet is not ammunition when it is contained in something!!!! love the TD logic here..
"Yes, it's a single bullet,"
great, at least you got that FAR! (now all you have to work out is a bullet is ammunition).
(its also an explosive)
I guess a bullet would also be consider a "gun part" as well
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that the TSA is on the lookout of guns and gun parts, and banned items.. YES it does make me (and others) feel safer.
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Re:
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well
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what logic would you like to apply to "NO GUNPOWER" (except if encased in plastic) or something??
please explain the logic you would apply that would make gunpowder not gunpowder if it is contained in something?
is it "a gun made out of plastic is not a gun because its made from plastic!"
or
"Gunpowder is not gunpowder if it contained in something!"?
what is your logic??
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Re: ammunition
OK, maybe you are really that dense.
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Re: Re:
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Re:
you want the TSA to 'decide' that a bullet is not a bullet when it is encased in plastic? That is your logic and reasoning about this ?
so if a bullet is not a bullet when encased in something, gunpowder is not gunpowder when encased in a shell?
I guess its the same logic when you say copyright theft is "infringement"!
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However, I'm completely not surprised that this would be banned. It may be fake but the TSA banns everything fake.
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Re: Re:
Have you ever tried to fire a dirty bullet?
Going by how idiotic your comments have been, I am going to go with "NO"
You are in more danger holding the gun that is firing a bullet that has been encased in acrylic than standing in front of it.
You are a moron.
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It appears firearms themselves, can be brought on as checked baggage.
I can see the TSA's point on they keychain trinket. If there's a ban on ammunition, including replicas, then I suppose the bullet keychain falls under the replicas category.
Now, if the keychain had a pistol or rifle inside the acrylic, it appears fine to bring that on the plane in a checked bag.
I'd rather just drive there, load up the trunk with guns, and the glove box full of ammunition, then drive home.
I used to fly, but it's too much of a hassle and expense these days. Not to mention it's almost impossible to get a refund on a ticket. No matter what circumstances may arise that are out of your own control. Such as late or cancelled flights during layovers.
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Re: Re:
You think that it is theft of property and that normal property laws cover what we like to call "infringement"?
Good to see that you want to do away with copyright and revert back to sane property theft standards.
Caught stealing a movie? pay your $20 fine.
Sounds good to me.
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Re:
you can use your bullet that you have dug out of acrylic.
You will become famous. Nominated for a Darwin award.
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Re: ammunition
It would make absolutely no sense to enclose live rounds like that. If it's a live round - think of how much more complicated the legal logistics become for shipping (now its a hazardous material in bulk), storing (see previous comment), much less selling/giving it away for free (i.e. you can't transfer to minors, or knowingly to felons, etc).
No, it makes much more sense for whoever is ordering or making these to enclose dummy rounds. Dummy rounds are quite easy to make, you just don't put any powder in - nothing magical there. I've made some myself for training purposes.
That, and the SHOT Show's own rules state "No live ammuni
tion, ignitable powder, live primers, primer
carriers, or percussion caps will
be allowed in the exhibit hall." (http://www.shotshow.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/SHOT14-Product-Eligibility-Rules.pdf)
This is common sense, something that you seem to be joining the TSA in lacking.
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Re:
and real life,
how easy would it to drill two holes each end of the key ring, one big enough for the bullet to fire (the barrel) and the other big enough to fit a small pin to fire it.
put plastic plugs in them, bingo, a working gun.
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Re: Re:
Try getting a clue.
Even if it was a live bullet, you would be more likely to blow your own hand off than the bullet fire like it was fired from a real gun.
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Re: well
what do you actually think TD is biased and just created "bashing articles"?
are you saying most articles are biased and not factually based?
are you saying that all logic and reason goes out the window whenever TD hears "TSA" or "NSA" and start frothing at the mouth.
Are you saying TD lacks substance??
TD caters for a certain class of radical, logic and reason has no place in their world.
You know they think 9/11 never happened, and if it did, its about time the people hurt by it should suck it up already!
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Re: Re: Re:
no not personally, but I have seen many shots fired from plastic guns, (bullets fired encased in acrylic).
"Have you ever tried to fire a dirty bullet? "
No I keep my bullets clean, and have the ability to clean them before I fire them.
have you ever tried to fire a dirty bullet ?? if yes,, why?
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so deliciousness is no excuse
http://bakedgoodsbycori.blogspot.com/2010/12/gun-cake.html
Or a pastry gun:
http://www.amazon.com/Wilton-415-850-Dessert-Decorator-Pro/dp/B0000VM782/
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Re: Re: Re:
what ??? do you consider copyright something like God? do you need to be a "believer" ??
copyright is a framework for a set of laws, I believe laws exist, I simply don't agree with weasel words like "infringement" as opposed to the real words.
Theft of infringement, call it what you like, believe what you like, but laws exist, believe it or not !
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Re: Re: well
It is because you are nothing more than a lying sack of shit that has no substance.
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"
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Theft relates to something completely different to infringement. But you keep on using your weasel words trying to illicit an emotional response. Jackass
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Too expensive? how much are bullets in the US??
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Have you ever really looked at a gun? Those guns have metal reinforcement for a reason. The same reason you can't depend on plastic guns to hold up and fire rounds one after another. It's because the shell casing isn't the strongest in the world. You take that shell and put it outside the framework of a gun that isn't reinforced with strength and the casing is subject to rupture from the firing.
I highly recommend this idiot claiming an inert round is dangerous to try the acrylic gun he keeps talking about. It is my hope when he does he won't be able to operate a keyboard for a while.
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There's no reason why you need a keychain accessory on the plane with you. Just put it in your checked luggage.
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Re:
Looks like is a key term, not that I doubt it is not a real bullet, it certainly looks like a real bullet.
if you have a weapon, or something that may be considered a weapon, it can be used as a threat, it does not have to be used.
Box cutters where used to threaten people and gain access to the cockpit, so 'fake' box cutters would be just as effective.
it you can look down some 'tube' structure, and see a bullet, you would assume it is a lethal gun, especially if the person pointing it at you tells you that.
"this is a gun, this is a bullet, do what I tell you or ill shoot you".
and again, I would be really surprised if a small calibre bullet would exceed the price of $1 in the US.
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I Feel Safer!
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Re: Re:
Try seeing a doctor and get the drugs you need to join the rest of us in reality
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Every one I looked at was a toy
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Re:
Ever since they started charging astronomical prices, I don't know anyone that willingly checks their luggage these days.
I fly often (monthly), and I always carry-on everything I can. Hell, I've taken a second bag full of nerf guns through TSA numerous times without issue.
On a recent trip to Hawaii, I didn't check any luggage, and opted to ship a box of stuff home, as it was still cheaper than paying for a checked bag.
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Re: Re:
You must me a very lonely person. Try getting a life
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Re: Re:
Not only would 'live' ammunition violate the rules of the convention they're being sold at*, it also complicates immensely the various stricture around buying, selling, transporting, etc.
Plus, it could lead to liability if someone fiddled around with it and managed to drill in and set off the charge.
So I would genuinely take that bet.
*from http://www.shotshow.org/attendees/policies/
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I'm not sure I'd want to use a live bullet in any process that involves applying heat to the item being encased.
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so someone who wants to shoot a person on a plane is going to take notice or care what the rules of the convention are ?
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Why don't you go and film yourself firing one of these trinkets or better yet, go make this real firing one that you have seen fired before made from 1/4" thick acrylic.
If it works, then you were right, if you lose your hand, I am right
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Re: Re: ammunition
what about the TERRORIST WEAPONS disguised as SHOT show merchandise?
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A live round has a shell (casing), primer, propellant, (gunpowder) and a bullet. Any one of these missing and it won't fire. The round encased in the acrylic is a .22 cal rim fire round. The primer material is deposited around the rim or the flange at the base of the shell, when the firing pin strikes the rim it compresses it and the primer material ignites and sets off the powder.
I imagine that they made thousands of these key chains and it wouldn't be hard to take a lot of unprimed cases and bypass priming and loading powder and just press the bullets in. Cost effective, no machine set-up, safer injection molding, of the keychain and as one commenter noted, less shipping and regulatory issues. My bet is that they are inert. Also, my bet is if my kid took one of these key chains to school, he would be expelled and if you showed it to the average person on the street in a major US city would scare them into calling 911.
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If so, a blanket ban on live ammo, even that encased in acrylic, doesn't seem that unreasonable.
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Re: ammunition
I may sound like a prude, but I would rather that there is no chance of bullets or gunpowder in a plane I am flying on, rather than letting gun nuts tote their trinkets onboard.
They can put them in checked baggage and that would be that.
As other people mention below, this seems to be another "bash the TSA because we haven't bashed the TSA today" articles, not something that is actually a valid gripe.
Oh Mike, how would you feel about, say, a switch blade knive in acrylic? WOuld you like to take a chance that it's not really acrylic but something that can be dissolved in water?
How about a hand grenade, or a rocket launcher? Okay if they are in acrylic and fit in the overhead bin?
See how silly your arguments sound?
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Re: .22 shell in a fire
( how do I know this? ... Youth, camp fires, Hams beer and a pocket full of .22 shells. Great fun watching your friends run. ... Don't do this at home!)
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Re: Re: .22 shell in a fire
Don't sound ridiculous - it's not a breast milk or bottle of shampoo. And average TSA agent is not supposed to be weapon expert: he supposed to follow set of simple rules. "No weapons or ammo or something that looks like it" is one of those rules.
Advice to vocal weapon - lovers: take this bullet, fly to let's say India. See how far you will get with this in a pocket.
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Don't believe me? Go to one and try to purchase a weapon and when they ask you for the required credentials say LOL cya. You'll get the following reply now hold on a minuet lets make a deal.
Most people care more about money than law they don't understand. It's the result of making law so confusing when it doesn't have to be.
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Those bullets don't need guns
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Symptom of America
As a US policeman once said to Jeremy Clarkson (form Top Gear)
"We don't need common sense we have laws"
This is an endemic problem in the US - and apparently in Australia too.
http://runcharlierun.com/2009/09/07/clarkson-wisdom/
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Re:
Bad assumption - why would you use a live bullet in something like this?
Surely the use of a live bullet would bring the item under various firearms laws (you do have some firearms legislation in the US don't you?) which would place extra costs on the company making and selling them. It would also have product liability consequences that could be very samaging in the US which is even more lawsuit-happy than it is gun-happy.
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Re: Re: Re: .22 shell in a fire
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Well...
BUT... I could see a legitimate reason for this and let me preface this by saying I'm a gun owner with his concealed carry permit.
Here's the problem I see...
If they allow any bullets - with gunpowder or not - then that sets a precedent. Then it raises MANY questions:
1) How can you tell if it's REALLY embedded in acrylic or something simply made to look like there's no access - plastic coated clear gel for instance? Personally, with the general ineptitude of TSA agents, I don't want THEM making that judgement call.
2) Judging by the bullet, it looks to be a 22 caliber long rifle. Honestly, not REALLY worrisome on a plane BUT if you allow a 22, where do you draw the line? 357? 9mm? 45? 44 magnum? 50 caliber? And if they're allowed... how many key chains could you have? 1? 2? 3? A dozen? A dozen 44 magnum bullets on the person behind me might concern me.
3)I could see a terrorist or hijacker, with a few accomplices, and a 3d printer, they could print out a gun, separate it into multiple pieces and divide it between 2-3 people, then on the plane assemble it in the bathroom, break open "fake" acrylic shells to get the rounds and load it into the gun, which while it would only have a couple of shots before being useless could still wreak havoc - one shot could de-pressurize the cabin. By the way, the firing pin would still have to be metal but can easily be hidden within a carry on. It would take all of about 3 minutes to do it.
THAT being said... as an Israeli security recently pointed out about our system, on the X-Rays machines gel inserts look just like plastic explosive and he got through with no problems or questions. So there are probably easier ways for someone who is desperate.
So in this instance, I AM for stopping bullets from going onto planes in the passenger compartment.
On the other hand, I am NOT for stopping monkey puppets with tiny fake guns. Although, as soon as one monkey puppet starts arming itself, then they all start arming and then it escalates and the next thing you know we have armies of monkey puppets with miniature AR-15's, grenade launchers and who know what else - just lining up to board planes.
And sadly, the monkey puppet army would most likely be more effective than the TSA.
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Better solution
and put a gun rack full of 9mm pistols for the passengers that care to take one along on the flight. The weapons are returned upon landing at their destination.
Wait for the next terrorist dumb enough to hijack a plane full of passengers with weapons.
People need to realize that if you are not willing to participate in the security of this nation as necessary then you deserve NO FREEDOM! As YOUR SUPERIORS aka police will protect you for you.
it is what the 2nd was all about. people don't have to be on the ground or in a special club to form a militia at a moments notice to safeguard things. You may be surprised at how fast a nation can come together when they all have to protect each other.
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Re: Safer with TSA on the lookout
Sure makes me feel safer.
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Re: Re:
I didn't realize that a small piece of acrylic was capable of maintaining structural integrity at 30,000+ psi.
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Re:
I mean really, they will take your shampoo. They are in no way going to let a bullet, even one which is obviously inert and in a hard plastic shell, through security. I can't see why anyone is shocked by this.
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Re: ammunition
The TSA can be a huge group of idiots, there's no argument there. But in this case, they're right.
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I feel so safe and fuzzy and warm...
Not.
It is like giving a retarded 3-year-old a revolver that has been painted pink and sky blue, and telling the child that putting the barrel in their mouth and pulling the trigger will give them candy.
Sad thing is, the TSA screeners actually believe they are making our world safer.
Just like the Republican Party politicians who depend on idiots and morons to be elected to office, the TSA requires it's "employees" to have in IQ of less than 50, and if they graduated middle school with a grade point average of more than 2.0 they are disqualified.
Yeah...I feel REAL safe with these tools working at airports.
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Re: Re: Re: ammunition
Exactly, what about them?
Not heard of that ever happening.
Not concerned that it will happen.
More people die each year in automotive related accidents than have ever died from terrorists.
How many people do you know who has died or been injured in an automotive accident? How many do you know who have been injured from a terrorist attack?
Put your fears in check, automobiles are much more terrorizing than terrorists.
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Re: ammunition
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Re: Re: Re:
FTFY. There is absolutely no security value to stopping these things, even if they are real bullets (with powder and priming cap, which is highly doubtful since I am quite sure the manufacturer who applies the acrylic doesn't want anything to do with live bullets when subjected to hot acrylic,) and the only security danger posed by stopping a whole line of travelers at the TSA checkpoint over this is the added risk of having a large number of people in a kill-zone for an extended period of time.
If you really have a problem with them in luggage, treat them like full water bottles and snow-globes (or cupcakes) and have the traveler leave the line to find a post office to send the item, or throw it away.
Logic and reason...the TSA has proven time and time again they have neither of these skills.
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Re: Re: Re: ammunition
So we are to prohibit everything that might possibly disguise terrorist intent, no matter how unlikely, then? There couldn't be a faster way to strip us of all our liberty.
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Re: Re: ammunition
What if the round was actually live? It's encased in acrylic regardless. I don't see how even a live round in that condition can pose any actual danger.
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Umm, no. If the trinket is capable of firing a bullet, then it's no longer a trinket. It is a gun. Allowing the trinket does not mean allowing the gun.
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Re: Well...
It sounds like a wonderful action movie plot, and would be a thrilling sequence in that movie between the moving speech by the touch-but-fair cop and the crook-with-a-heart-of-gold.
In real reality life planes don't become wind tunnels or tear apart when a bullet goes through a window or wall. The pressure leaks, the pilots get a little blinking light and it is time to land while everyone is annoyed by the whistling sound and popping ears. This would be on top of the team of would-be hijackers being torn apart by outside the locked cockpit.
Unless, of course, the terrorists are sock-monkeys. Then all bets are off.
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TSA is a Joke
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In the middle on this one
The logic I think they use:
- It looks like a duck (in plastic)
- It may sound like a duck but we can't tell because it is in plastic
- It may smell like a duck but we can't tell because it is in plastic
=== It passes one of the tests so it must be a duck. That is the safest view.
I do think that it is highly unlikely and dumb for anyone to encase bullets like that... but a terrorist may try it. Personally in this case I don't I want them the front line workers to determine if the bullets are real, they haven't shown enough 'common sense' for that. I just want better exceptions that the drones can follow.
So it makes sense to me that that rule have an exception that if the object can easily be demonstrated to lack propellent and/or be non functional then it is allowed.
A simple hole drilled in the casing (like for a key ring) is all it takes. For the the manufactures adding a hole before shouldn't be that much of a burden.
And SHOT can help out too with some publicity pressure.. with a rule that any keychains or items meant to be commonly carried that are sold at the show should meet the TSA guideline exception... A message like that makes the org sound reasonable and reduces friction with non-gun owners.
And at the end of the day it seems that if having a small hole in your bullet key chain (to prove it as non-functional) lets you get on a plane it outweighs the principle of gun rights in this situation (where guns are already banned for good reason).
I find it hard logic path to follow that this change would restrict real situations where where it should be perfectly legal to carry live ammo if you wanted to (in a theater, at a restaurant, at home, while miniature golfing, etc)
On that note... I also think they should allow a non-locking blade if it is less then a 1.5 inches long.
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In Massachusetts ...
Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.
Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: ammunition
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http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/25/eb/d761923f8da0590d37e98010.L.jpg
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Re: Re: Re:
Often times for a few days casual trip, I can get away with a single backpack containing everything I need - including a laptop (for work), or my tablet (for pleasure).
Having gone through security with my carry-on countless times over the last few years, I've come to accept my fate (and the fate of my belongings).
I also go for the opt-out/full patdown every time, so I'm at least feeling good that the TSA is "working" for their pay.
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Re:
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Re:
If it is in a casing with a piece of lead, it is a bullet.
Wrapped tight in paper, it is a firecracker.
Put a banana in a milkshake, it is a milkshake, not a banana.
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Re: Re:
Now go make me a sandwich.
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so I guess, gunpowder becomes an explosive when it is in an explosion? what an idiot argument you got there.
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I would make it look just like these ones, except I would make sure the bullet was real, knowing it would be past TSA (if they allowed them).
Then I would know it was a real bullet, I would also drill a small hole for the barrel and one for a firing pin, fill those holes with clear acrylic plugs and bingo I have a one shot gun.
I would not care if those key rings contained a real bullet or not, but I would make sure the one I made that looks just the same would contain a real one.. !!!
Or did you not think of that ?
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Re: Re: Re: well
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IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS A BULLET !!! (its even called a bullet).
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ok let me get my recipe book, tear out 3 pages and sandwich them together. MMMM yummy..
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I don't care if the ones you can buy contain real bullets or not, just that they are allowed on planes. I do care that the one I make that looks the same contains a real bullet and has some hidden mechanism for fire it.
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great, ill supply the keyring (I made it myself !!!)
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"If the trinket is capable of firing a bullet, then it's no longer a trinket."
!!!!!!
so it really comes down to your definition of words. Its a trinket that IS CAPABLE OF FIRING A BILLET, it ALSO CONTAINS A BULLET, so if you put a bullet in a trinket the bullet is a trinket, and if you put it in a gun the trinket bullet becomes a real bullet? WTF.. Love the circular semantics logic.
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What part of BANNED don't you fully understand yet?
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would you make it to look just like the one pictured, and would you ensure you included a real and working bullet in it, or a dud ?
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Any hobby shop has the kits to make acrylic encased things.
You make a keyring that looks the same as the ones you want allowed, but you make sure the bullet you put in it is REAL !!! job done.
If you have live bullet you are 90% the way to firing a live bullet, the rest is easy, the hard part is getting the bullet.
Sure, you might not be able to fashion a full gun and repeats or that can fire many bullets or accurately, but you could easily manage to discharge one bullet in a way that could kill someone. (called zip guns I believe).
SO TSA approve these keyrings, you make one that looks like them with a real bullet, but in two parts so you can remove the live round and fire it from your pen or something.
You figure it out,
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possibly if your intent was to shoot the bullet !!!
That would be one reason to use a real bullet.
I certainly would not assume the ones you can buy contained live rounds, but I would make no assumptions about the one I make that looks just the same containing a real bullet. Because I would ensure it was a real bullet.
If I am intending to kill someone on a plane (by shooting them with a jury-rigged gun and a real bullet) , I am probably not going to be too worried about firearms laws either.
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You enter the planes electronics bay (on a 'fly-by-wire') place, and you start unplugging circuit boards.
The plane loses control, and crashes.
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Re: Better solution
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Yet Still
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Re: Re: Re: Re: well
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Is it possible for you to get any dumber?
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A metal pen is much better for a zip gun.
Do they confiscate all pens?
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Your source of nutrition explains much.
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The logic is, do you have a banana or a milkshake?
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Gunpowder is made with:
"It is a mixture of sulfur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate (saltpeter)—with the sulfur and charcoal acting as fuels, while the saltpetre works as an oxidizer."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
From a recipe.
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You could be blowing your own head off the next time you turn the wheel.
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What a fucking coward you are.
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you don't make recipes, you make things from recipes !!!
nice try, but again, no prize.
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Re: In Massachusetts ...
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It is against the law to drag a dead horse down Younge st in Toronto Ontario Canada on a Sunday. Am I to assume it is fine to do so the rest of the week?
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Air plain tsa billets
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