Mike Rogers Still Pushing His 'Snowden Is A Russian Spy' Delusion, Citing Every Single 'Counterintelligence Official' In Support

from the more-delusions-cited-within,-including-a-presidential-run dept

Mon, Apr 7th 2014 9:34am — Tim Cushing

Mike Rogers is still intent on proving Ed Snowden is a Russian spy. Apparently, Rogers' plan is to make the same assertions over and over again without providing any evidence beyond hearsay and conjecture (always from unnamed, unspecified intelligence community members).

His latest foray into his own particular conspiracy theory occurred during an interview with Michael Crowley at TIME. Crowley asks him to explain the assertions he's made about Ed Snowden, particularly the statement that he's under the influence of Russian intelligence (FSB). Crowley points out Rogers has offered no evidence to back up these claims. Rogers responds… by again offering no evidence.

The NSA contractor is definitely under the influence of Russian officials. We know that he was in China, Hong Kong anyway, and in Russia today. We have seen patterns and activities that lead us to believe that some or all of that information is being worked through by those intelligence services and putting the U.S. at risk.

There's your "evidence." Snowden was in Hong Kong and now, Russia. Case closed. As for the "patterns and activities," Rogers offers nothing definite, other than foreign intelligence services are "working through" the documents, which could really mean nothing more than they're reading the papers.

If the NSA still doesn't know what's been taken, it's rather hard for any "counterintelligence official" to claim moves are being made because of yet undisclosed documents. If Rogers' assertion is true (and there's no reason to believe it is), it means the intelligence community is engaging in the same sort of conspiratorial speculation that he is. Needless to say, this would be perhaps the least productive use of the agency's resources.

You'll notice (as Crowley did) that Rogers won't even say Snowden's name at this point (referring to him only as a "NSA contractor"). Here's his excuse:

I think people have wrongly given him some elevated status, and he has some kind of an underground rock-star status. He’s a traitor who puts our soldiers lives at risk.

If anyone's turning Snowden into a larger-than-life figure, it's those, like Rogers, who are attempting to portray him as backstabbing traitor who ran to the welcoming arms of foreign intelligence agencies.

Rogers goes from bad to worse to incomprehensible within the space of a few questions. He says Snowden's living arrangements are far too cozy with Russian intelligence. At first, Snowden's only "about a mile away" from FSB's headquarters, then he's "been in custody" and finally, he's living in an FSB "joint facility." Crowley questions this and Rogers backpedals.

No, no, not a joint facility. He’s housed very near an FSB facility. Makes it convenient for everybody.

Hmm.

Then there's this: Rogers' ultimate proof that he's not a crazy person with a headful of conspiracy theories.

And remember we have other classified ways as well. That’s why no counterintelligence official does not believe that today he’s under the influence.

Really? Then why have no other counterintelligence officials stepped up to make this claim? Do they really think this potential bombshell is best deployed by a rah-go-team-surveillance blowhard like Mike Rogers, a legislator who has done his very best to play the part of subservient flack catcher for the surveillance state? Wouldn't the single, most damning bit of evidence that Snowden is everything his detractors claim he is (traitor, spy) have already been exposed? Presumably these unnamed counterintelligence officials are no fan of Snowden's actions. If so, why are they sitting on this and letting someone like Rogers proactively destroy any potential credibility?

There's only one answer: it's completely untrue. Rogers may be able to find a number of yes-men who nod sagely while he spews baseless claims, but there's no way that number includes counterintelligence officials. Even if some of them suspect Snowden might be working in conjunction with Russia's FSB, they've wisely decided not to make that public before they've gathered enough evidence to support the claim. Rogers, on the other hand, has decided his gut instinct, informed by his irrational hatred of this "NSA contractor," is all the evidence that's really needed.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: ed snowden, mike rogers, russia

42 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

silverscarcat (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 5:23am

Hey, Michigan...
Your loony is off his meds again.

Can someone give him an "I love me" jacket already?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 7:53am

It's interesting that the US trapped Snowden in Russia. Trying to frame him as a Russian spy should be easier. I wonder what the tone would be if he was trapped in, say, Seychelles or any other small country that poses no real risk and has no background history of espionage? I'm sincerely cheering on some lousy country giving him asylum. Should be interesting to know how Rogers will flip it. ALIENS, HE'S A SPY FOR THE EVIL ALIENS FROM MARS!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:42am

"without providing any evidence beyond hearsay and conjecture"

In his defense, this is how they got him to vote for a bunch of stupid shit and not ask questions about it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:43am

Response to: Ninja on Apr 7th, 2014 @ 7:53am
I WANT TO SEE ED SNOWDEN'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:52am

Re:
"I wonder what the tone would be"

My guess? They would say HE'S A RUSSIAN SPY!!1!1!

His presence in the small uninvolved country would be because, obviously Russia wouldn't be so stupid as to blatantly give him asylum. They'd need plausible deniability, after all...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Glen, 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:54am

I guess he goes by the mantra "If you say something enough times repeatedly, it becomes a fact.". Problem is no one that actually thinks is buying it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:55am

I wonder what position Mike Rogers is applying for after office it seems as if he's trying to build a resume of sorts by showing he can lie without conscience, I know he's a politician and lying is in fact their game ,but it seems he's set his goals at something.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pixelation, 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:56am

Ahh, yes. Mr Rogers neighborhood of make believe.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mcinsand, 7 Apr 2014 @ 9:58am

let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
Rogers claims that Snowden's presence in Russia is proof that he is working with Russian intelligence. Let's use his 'logic' a bit. Snowden wasn't trying to go *to* Russia originally, he was trying to go *through* Russia. Rogers et al trapped him there. So, if his presence is proof of collaboration with the Russians, then the prime collaborators must be those that trapped him there.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 10:05am

Parse it
The NSA contractor is definitely under the influence of Russian officials.

He has them to thank for housing.

We know that he was in China, Hong Kong anyway, and in Russia today.

He certainly was.

We have seen patterns and activities that lead us to believe that some or all of that information is being worked through by those intelligence services and putting the U.S. at risk.

They read The Guardian.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 10:16am

Mike Rogers - The NSA contractor is definitely under the influence of Russian officials.

Mike Rogers - After he's Proven to be wrong,
I meant Vodka not Russian Officials ,Damn You Auto Correct!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PRMan, 7 Apr 2014 @ 10:24am

Re:
" no one that actually thinks is buying it."

So, you're saying that half the population and 90% of Congress IS buying it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 10:38am

" That�s why no counterintelligence official does not believe that today he�s under the influence."

What's with this peculiar double negative word salad?

He doesn't seem to want to say "All counterintelligence officers believe.." so he's obfuscating and hoping not to be questioned. An odd linguistic tic.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 10:42am

Re:
"he's set his goals at something"

Sure he is, he even says so. First he's going to talk-radio so he can spread his own special brand of FUD (sorry, I meant spread The Word according to Rogers) and then:

Question:
And if a Republican is elected in 2016, will you return to run the CIA, FBI or Department of Homeland Security?

Answer:
I never say never. I don�t think I�m done with government service. We�ll see what role it takes.

There you go. Asked and answered. Bet you can't wait :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Glen, 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:00am

Re: Re:
That seems to be the case.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
saulgoode (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:05am

Re:
It would appear that he plans to become a radio talk show host.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/04/the-retirement-of-mike-rogers-national-secu rity-statist/360016/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tom (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:07am

Re:
Say, who else lived by that mantra?

"But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success."

Oh yeah, that was Hitler in Mein Kampf.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chris, 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:21am

Re: Hey, Michigan...
We'd love to, but he hangs out in Lansing and everyone knows there's something in the water up there that makes it crazy town.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jerrymiah, 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:26am

Rogers 'the asshole', versus Eric 'The Patriot" Snowden
To make these assertions, Mike Rogers probably takes hint from his own personal experiences when he was supporting and financing and providing explosives to the IRA to plant bombs in Belfast, Ireland in general and the UK. This guy should have been jailed at that time and definitibely should be jailed now. Nothing in the words he pronounce today should be believed by anyone. The guy is a terrorist supporter and therefore should not be a member of the committee that is supposed to oversee the intelligence community.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
KevinEHayden (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 11:42am

Re: let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
Maybe these guys should put their money where their mouths are. Snowden is trapped in Russia because he has no passport. Why not re-instate his passport and see where he goes? If he leaves Russia and continues on the journey that was interrupted, then he's probably not a spy. If he stays in Russia, then they might have some grounds for whatever they're saying.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
gezzerx, 7 Apr 2014 @ 12:06pm

Sometimes tou just fix STUPID !
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Benjamin Franklin

Seems to me Mr. Rodgers, you are putting in a lot of overtime on this subject !

Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.
Benjamin Franklin

So maybe Mr. Rogers it's time to educate yourself from TRUE American Patriots, rather than the false flag opinions that you express. So here is a small sample to start your education !

Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
James Madison

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution"
Abraham Lincoln

Mr. Rogers pay close atenion to this Quote !
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

Disclaimer: Be advised it is possible, that this communication is being monitored by the National Security Agency, GCHQ or other third party organizations. I neither condone nor support any such policy, by any Government authority or organization that does not comply, as stipulated by the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: Hey, Michigan...

We'd love to, but he hangs out in Lansing and everyone knows there's something in the water up there that makes it crazy town.

Too bad he's not up by St. Ignace. If he was, his constituents ought to toss him in the drink and not let him out until he gets to Mackinac Island.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 1:08pm

Re: let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
Rogers claims that Snowden's presence in Russia is proof that he is working with Russian intelligence.

Since everyone in the U.S. is, in a sense, inadvertently working with U.S. intelligence, he's probably just extrapolating from that to include all countries where one might reside.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Revisionist, 7 Apr 2014 @ 1:11pm

When he was in Hong Kong, they claimed he must have be a Chinese spy. Now that he's trapped in Russia, they claim he is a Russian spy. Is it too much to ask that they keep their fucking story straight?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 2:04pm

Re:
Maybe this is proof Mike Rogers played Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater? In that game, (spoilers) the character Eva is a triple agent: she infiltrates the KGB on orders from the Chinese and (before the game starts) kills and pretends to be a US infiltrator to the KGB who had publicly defected.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Matthew Cline (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 3:50pm

Re: let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
Snowden wasn't trying to go *to* Russia originally, he was trying to go *through* Russia. Rogers et al trapped him there.
But you see, that just how diabolically clever he is! He was depending on them trapping him in Russia to give him plausible deniability.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
JBDragon, 7 Apr 2014 @ 3:55pm

Last time I check, Unlike James Bond where everyone seems to know he's 007, Spies don't want to be known and in the public eye let alone announcing themselves to the world!!!

If he was really a Russian spy, he's a complete IDIOT! What Classified Info did he released that hurt this country and helped Russia??? The NSA has no right to just go snooping on every american because it things so. They are not GOD! We have a Constitution and all Americans are protected by it! You need a Signed Warrant for each person and exactly what you're looking for. You can't just blanket screen anyone you feel like!!! We expect our government to be doing their spying which is why it is on other countries and their people. They are after all NOT protected under our Constitution, and those countries do the same thing to us.

There's right and wrong. Our Federal Government grows and grows and gets more and more Curupt. It should have never gotten like this. Now we have this crap Obamacare. See the Federal Government now seems to how the power to so ANYTHING it wants. Not just the 18 things it's suppose to do. Everything else is suppose to be reserved to the States.

That means if 1 State wants some type of Obamacare crap, that's perfectly fine, people are at least able to flee from it. If the State goes bankrupt, it's on them and them only. If another state wants Legal Weed, that's fine also. How the Federal Government stuck it's nose into this in the first place?!?! Same with marriage. It shouldn't have been a government thing in the first place. Just another way to get money and screw around with the taxes. If can all be done Legally without some Federal Marriage law. A State can do what they want, allow or not allow, it wouldn't matter anyway because it would be meaningless as anything having to do with anything can all be handled by signing some documents with your lawyers. Go to a church that allows gay marriage if your gay. All is fine. Government is not involved!!!

That is how it's suppose to be. Instead we have this ever out of control government. The more it grows, the more poor the middle class and poor become!!! The War on poverty for the last 50 years has done NOTHING!!! Spreading the Wealth is just growing a ever larger Welfare base. The Government is just doing everything it can to KILL JOBS! Worst of all, it's all for Amnesty. A flood of poor uneducated people coming in, taking up Services from Legal Americans and keeping pay LOW. You know Supply and Demand. large Supply of Workers for a job means LOW PAY! Small supply of workers means pay goes UP! You think these low pay $8 jobs maybe less would only be that if there were only a few people wanting those job? Lots of people, they can be easily replaced by yet another person.

Snowden is a true American. He knew what our Government was doing was completely Unconstitutional and of course this Corrupt Government doesn't like things like this getting out and want to punish him. Doesn't matter if the Government was completely in the wrong. All this stuff didn't start happening until 2009, AFTER BUSH was gone! Before is was just Spying on other Countries. It's OBAMA that expanded the program and then he got caught, and now they are trying to cover it up and pass the blame like so many other things.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kronomex, 7 Apr 2014 @ 4:13pm

The latest installment of Mr. Rogers Fantasy Conspiracy has arrived.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Togashi (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 4:13pm

Re: Re: let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
But see, if he leaves Russia that's proof he's a Russian spy! It's an obvious ploy to throw us off his tracks, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. But if he stays in Russia that's proof he's a Russian spy, too. Why else would he stay there? So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 7 Apr 2014 @ 4:17pm

Re: Re: let's just use Roger's logic with Ninja's statements
Actually that would be a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't'-type situation, because if the US tries to grab Snowden now, they'd have to deal with a very angry Russia because of it.

However, should Snowden leave the country, as the USG has shown no problem grounding the plane of a foreign president because Snowden might have been on it, I wouldn't put high odds on Snowden making it to whatever country he tried to fly too.

So, funny as it is, refusing to re-instate his passport is actually doing him a favor, as should he get it back he'd be left with two rather unpleasant options, either stay in Russia and have that 'prove' that he was/is working for them(at least to nutjobs like Rogers), or try his luck and leave, hoping he makes it to whichever country he chooses intact.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2014 @ 7:33pm

I believe that everything done by Snowden since he arrived in Hong Kong and continuing to date has been on the up and up. He did not keep any copies of the documents he downloaded, nor did he retain a backdoor to access them should he ever want to do so in the future. He has not disclosed anything to foreign governments, nor has he used his knowledge of US programs for their benefit.

Why do I believe this? Because he told us what he was doing, and Snowden is not at all prone to say one thing and do another.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
David, 8 Apr 2014 @ 3:13am

Re:
I wonder what the tone would be if he was trapped in, say, Seychelles or any other small country that poses no real risk and has no background history of espionage?

He'd be dead already.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
David, 8 Apr 2014 @ 3:19am

Re:
Well, it is easy to believe Snowden rather than Rogers: since the story broke, Rogers' account of reality had to be scrapped and refantasized several times. Snowden's version of the story held up a lot better under scrutiny than that of the government and its professional liars.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2014 @ 3:37am

Libel?
It looks to me that Snowden has a pretty strong case to sue for libel, assuming he's really not a spy for anybody.
If levelling baseless accusations that somebody is a Russian spy is not libel I don't know what is. Proof is also pretty open and shut since Mr Rogers is on record several times. Unless he really has proof of some sort which seems very unlikely.

Perhpas he should sue in the UK. Libel laws are pretty stict there I understand.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2014 @ 4:53am

Re: Re:
US officials are castigated by many for making factual statements without providing independently verifiable backup.

Snowden is admired by many for making factual statements despite having provided no independently verifiable backup.

Sounds to me that the common denominator is each case is the lack of independent verifiable backup. Hence, why one is charged with purposely hiding the truth and the other is not makes no sense. A truly objective comment about each would state that they have said something that cannot be verified.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
David, 8 Apr 2014 @ 5:46am

Re: Re: Re:
Snowden is admired by many for making factual statements despite having provided no independently verifiable backup.

Huh? Snowden made very few factual statements. His main feat was providing a wagonload of government documents to journalists. The veracity of those documents has not been drawn into doubt by the government, and they paint a consistent picture that has been verified independently. In consequence, the government had to repeatedly change its story.

Whoever sees this situation as "lack of independent verifiable backup" has not been paying attention, or more likely, has been paid for pretending not to have paid attention.

"Anonymous Coward". Is that all the shilling the NSA can afford?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2014 @ 6:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Snowden has made numerous factual statements that are quite apart from the classified documents he downloaded. It is important to keep this distinction is mind because the former go to his veracity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just Another Anonymous Troll, 8 Apr 2014 @ 8:14am

Mike Rogers should be taken to a medical laboratory and studied. This is a win-win for all parties except for him: we don't have to listen to his crackpot theories and we learn the secret of how a human body can function without a brain.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2014 @ 10:00am

Let us suspend our pretense of reality momentarily and assume that, perhaps, Snowden is a Russian spy. He's not, but let's pretend he is.

Does this lessen his positive impact on federal policy?
Does this undo the enlightenment he has given the ('unworthy') US citizen into the US government's inconsistent, unethical, and potentially illegal inner workings?

If Snowden is a spy, then is he not a spy who has served the people of the United States, potentially at the cost of his foreign masters? Isn't this superior to the espionage the US is funding in many countries?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
GEMont (profile), 8 Apr 2014 @ 8:41pm

Tell a lie long enough and often enough and it soon becomes reality in the minds of those exposed to it.

Tell enough lies often enough and you have History.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pragmatic, 11 Apr 2014 @ 5:17am

Re: Response to: Ninja on Apr 7th, 2014 @ 7:53am
Hmmm... they've gone mad on the Red Scare Russkie thing but no one has accused him of secretly murdering his husband or of seeking gay encounters in Turkish baths, etc.

Give it time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pragmatic, 11 Apr 2014 @ 5:26am

Re:
*Sigh!*

10 Incoherent, partisan, FUD-filled rant is incoherent. GOTO
20 Learn about the things you're discussing from reliable sources, not partisan ones. GOTO
30 Reverting to the Articles of Confederation would dissolve the United States and get rid of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that created it because the Articles predate the Constitution. GOTO
40 Give it up, already!
[ link to this | view in thread ]