Snowden Asks Putin Live On TV If Russia Carries Out Mass Surveillance; But Why?
from the what-on-earth-was-he-thinking? dept
Edward Snowden has generally been staying out of the limelight so that the NSA story is about the surveillance not the whistleblower. He's given occasional interviews and delivered a few short speeches via videolink, but usually of a fairly low-key nature. That makes his unexpected appearance today on a marathon televised question-and-answer session with Vladimir Putin -- again by videolink -- extremely odd. Here's his question, as reported by The Guardian:
Snowden asked: "Does Russia intercept or store or analyse the communication of millions of individuals?" He went on to ask whether increasing the effectiveness of internal security systems could ever justify such actions.
To which Putin replied:
"Mr Snowden you are a former agent, a spy, I used to work for a intelligence service, we are going to talk the same language."
He said Russia did not have a comparable programme, stating: "Our agents are controlled by law. You have to get court permission to put an individual under surveillance. We don't have mass permission, and our law makes it impossible for that kind of mass permission to exist."
He said he was aware that "criminals and terrorists" relied on this kind of [technology], and that their actions demanded a response from the security services. "We have to use technical means to respond to their crimes, including those of a terrorist nature, we do have some efforts like that. We don't have a mass control. I hope we [w]on't do that," he said.
Inevitably, then, this appearance will be leapt on by those who have maintained that Snowden is some kind of Russian spy, and that he has been working for Putin all along. As Techdirt has noted, that story doesn't stand up, but this unexpected intervention by Snowden certainly doesn't do anything to dispel it. For someone who until now has judged when and how to make public statements so skilfully and effectively, this seems like an incredible misstep. It really makes you wonder what might lie behind it.
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Filed Under: ed snowden, fsb, mass surveillance, nsa, russia, surveillance, vladimir putin
Reader Comments
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Asylum
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Re: Asylum
Putin: "Hey, you know I scratched your back and my back is feeling a bit itchy right now..."
Snowden did his job and I haven't cared much for him afterwards beyond hoping he gets a pardon and welcomed back with no strings attached. As it is, he's going to be stuck in exile and going to be used by whomever has effective control of him.
Which is still way better than rotting in jail over here.
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Hmm
I mean, it's almost common knowledge that Russia spies on dissidents within the country (http://americablog.com/2014/02/jason-jones-final-report-russia-video.html), so maybe he was trying to put Putin in a position of incriminating himself?
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Re: Hmm
Releasing information about Russia's recent history of spying would also (hopefully) end Congressman Rogers' continuous refrain of "Snowden's working for Putin!"
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Re: Re: Hmm
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Re: Hmm
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Re: Hmm
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Re: Re: Hmm
Their are four possible truth/answer combinations. None of them have bad results:
1) Spying is going on & Putin denies it. This seems to be what the commenters here believe is happening. If Putin feels the need to be hypocritical here, then it establishes that Russian leaders are aware of an expectation of privacy among its citizens. Snowden may be exposing a vulnerability. If Putin is ashamed to admit to spying, then those who know better can take advantage of it by exposing his lies.
2) Spying is going on and Putin admits it. Having the leader of the nation that was the stereotypical big-brother during the cold war admit to the same practices as the US places greater shame on America and helps foster change here.
3) Bulk spying is not going on and Putin claims it is. I'm not sure the positive situation here. Perhaps his people would throw a fit and he'd backpedal.
4) No bulk spying and he tells the truth. US is further shamed for being more of a tyrant than Russia.
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Right, because good ol' Honest Vladimir Putin, former KGB agent (which he mentioned as part of his answer to the question) never tells a lie.
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Well
If you want people to think you a hero, do not assist in the promotion of megalomaniacal leaders.
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Re: Well
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Re: Well
The crux of the matter is that there is a whole lot of value in getting a leader, on the record, answering a question, even if their answer may be false.
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We already know the UK essentially has a local branch of the NSA. Perhaps several other countries, including Russia, are also playing along?
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Re:
The Russians are doing it, the Germans are doing it, the Chinese are doing it, the Japanese are doing it, the British are doing it, the Indians are doing it. And: they all know that each other are doing it, (a) because it's too large an op to hide and (b) because it's their business to know such things.
Thus the question isn't "are they doing it?" but "are there any Snowden-equivalents who have the goods to prove it?"
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Don't judge just yet
Maybe he's adapting Ron Wyden's "I let you fuck yourself" tactics, or he were pressured into the situation (who's fault is it that he had to ask asylum from Russia?).
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Re: Don't judge just yet
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Re: Re: Don't judge just yet
It's the kind of stuff the US was doing openly since the 40's into the 70's, after that the US decided to pretend being the most democratic and open society in the world, while making that mass surveillance project in the background. Different kinds of oppression is still oppression but I'm sure people living in rural russia (there's a shitload of areas called rural russia) even encounter more authority (of any form, in the open or not) than the local cop.
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Re: Don't judge just yet
Hypocrites.
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Re: Re: Don't judge just yet
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Re: Re: Don't judge just yet
Second, if you have no problem with being caught in an outright spying campaign against ALL US citizens, then you're part of the PROBLEM.
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Re: Re: Don't judge just yet
Personally my bets are on the first one. Not exactly like he made it to a land of the free... and our current land of the free is not looking all that great anymore now that he pulled back the curtains.
So yea, people defend him. He did the American thing.
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Re: Re: Don't judge just yet
Judge Snowden for what? Asking a national leader if they are bulk spying on their citizens? Every person in the world should be asking the same questions. Yes, some leaders may lie (*cough* Clapper *cough*) or dissemble (*cough* Obama, Rogers, Feinstein *cough*). But that doesn't mean that we (and Snowden) shouldn't keep asking.
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Snowden has balls of titanium
But to tease the dragon that's sheltering you...wow.
I can't see any motive other than to setup Putin as a liar.
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Snowden
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Probably asked to ask the question
It also feels like were getting nowhere with this even though many agencies are clearly breaking the law in most peoples eyes and that mass surveillance smells like the Stazi in disguise there ramping spying on everyone to new levels and trying to get everything they want authorized under the terror banner.
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here's a question about snowden
no really whose paying his bills?
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Re: here's a question about snowden
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Re: here's a question about snowden
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Re: here's a question about snowden
Why do you think he took his "detour" over there before going to Russia?
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Re: Re: here's a question about snowden
China have nothing to learn about mass control and surveillance, they're the masters here. You're a massive idiot when it is known he gave those documents to journalists and the escaped, with absolutely nothing.
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@17
NO IT DOESN'T and its the scope of it and the lack of oversight that is the BIG issue and hte invasion of innocent peoples lives.
AND WHAT GIVES THE NSA AND GCHQ THE RIGHT TO KEEP KIDDY PRON IN XKEYSCORE DBASE? IS THAT OK?
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Re: @17
That little show in Iraq about "first strike Bush doctrine" is actually what the NATO doctrine is now since 9/11, "Ability to knock out any nuclear power if one of their allies is attacked by one of those, a "successful First Strike". Russia switched to that too by the way, the brillant insanity that was MAD is no more, Russia has decided even before 9/11 (Putin was President since almost 2 years then) as he saw the country which was once a Superpower now totally weak, and being the largest country the world is gonna make people want to pick at you...he brought back some military strength and decency of life (except for the last couple years where laws, which i think were adopted by a truly honest parliament or whatever it is they have there, is it Duma? Anyway, the 2 superpowers are now at proxy war since before 9/11, since Yugoslavia, but then they had a drunken buffoon leaving his people die of hunger...Putin removed a lot of that, their economy was doing really fine during the economic crisis even.
But to make it quick, NATO vs SCO (research it) is what is going on and they both have plans of making a nuclear war winnable by First Strike.
Insane, mad men rule the world, i'm not sure if you're just naive or truly mean those words...
29 years in human history - the total duration of life without war
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Yeah, Putin told Obama to revoke his passport, you know who's boss now, heheheheheee....ehhhhhhh.
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When your country is worse than Russia in the spying department, you know you have a problem.
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What matters are the documents being released. I care far more about what the government that has quite a bit of power (theoretical and actual) over me then a single individual that I've never even met.
So Rogers, posters gleefully pouncing on this and others of the sort... are you declaring the documents to be mass forgery? Because any other claim to try and sweep the issue away I don't give a damn about in comparison. Snowden could be a kiddie fiddler and it wouldn't change the cat being out of the bag.
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Funny thing is...
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Even more funny...
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Re: Even more funny...
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Consider his situation
It's pretty obvious the Obama Administration is not inclined to offer him the opportunity to return to the US under any sort of a deal so he has now to make his way in the world by means available,
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You know...
However, perhaps snowden knows better and is setting putin up for some pretty big embarassment. Think about it, if russia/putin comes out officially and sais that it's not going on, and later cables are released that contradict these statements then they just got caught in a lie.
I'll reserve my judgement on this one and wait for it to play out.
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Re: You know...
Is it a bad thing if the USA endures some shame over this issue? I think it's still noble and patriotic of Mr. Snowden to do this even if the only end-game here is more pressure on the US to stop its bulk spying.
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Re: You know...
He worked for the NSA. He knows without any shadow of a doubt the answer to the question he asked Putin.
Which makes me wonder, a lot, why he asked it.
Putin is not known for putting himself in compromising positions. This had to have been approved in advance.
Which means Putin wanted to give that answer to the public, any way you swing the cat.
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...
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Somehow, I do not expect POTUS to follow suit.
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Snowden.. Really?
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The reason for this question is obvious.
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