Chase Bank Slutshames Their Adult Performer Customers
from the which-of-them-is-more-dirty? dept
Porn. It's what the internet is for, as they say. Also, it's very hard for some people to avoid. Entire governments, too. But what about the little people with big parts that make all this wonderfully ubiquitous smut possible? It's easy to forget about the hard (ahem) working individuals that make these small businesses and big industry spurt out their wares like (insert grossest applicable analogy here). And now it's apparently difficult for those mostly-young laborers to get paid, since some banks seem to have adopted a rather convenient moral code when it comes to who can open accounts with their institutions.
Chase Bank has reportedly sent out letters to hundreds of porn stars notifying them that their accounts would be closed on May 11. Teagan Presley confirmed to XBIZ that her personal account was one of the ones shut down.In other words, Chase Bank is slutshaming adult performers and closing their personal accounts, whether those accounts are associated with the adult businesses in question or not. It's apparently something of a morality play. That may find some support with the more conservative and/or religious factions in America, but I'd say it's an interesting move by the same bank that has, among other transgressions: financed the Nazis, engaged in fictitious trades, wrongfully foreclosed on active US soldiers, financed other Nazis, bankrupted American towns through changes in their debt-rate programs, violated the Sherman Act, refused to return funds to Jewish families that were victims of those same Nazis they financed, lied to people trying to finance automobiles, and financed the damned Nazis. To invoke a morality clause with all of that on one's resume would be a bit like having Donald Sterling fire an employee for being racist.
“I got a letter and it was like please cancel all transactions, please fix your automatic pay account and make sure everything’s taken care of by May 11,” Presley told XBIZ. “I called them and they told me that because I am, I guess, public and am recognizable in the adult business, they’re closing my account. Even though I don’t use my account, it’s my personal account that I’ve had since I was 18, when it was Washington Mutual before Chase bought them out.”
Unfortunately, because the banking industry appears to have rules all its own, it's unclear whether anything can be done about this kind of blatant discriminatory policy.
Adult industry attorney Michael Fattorosi told XBIZ that Chase and other banks have “notoriously closed adult accounts or people in the industry’s accounts, but nothing like this.”And, yes, private businesses can choose with whom they do business, but I would suggest that if Chase wants to apply morality to their business, we should as well. That would mean they need to be paying far greater repercussions for their transgressions than the wrist-slapping they've experienced thus far.
Whether legal recourse for those whose accounts were nixed is plausible — and, if so, which path is optimal — remains unclear, given that the situation is novel and that banks generally have the prerogative to do business with who they choose (yes, that often means flagrant discrimination).
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Filed Under: adult film stars, bank accounts, morality, porn
Companies: chase bank, jpmorgan chase
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Times are changing
I am not sure that is true anymore. The recent story of the bakery that did not want to make the wedding cake for the gay couple says that you cannot make that choice.
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Re: Times are changing
The bakery opened itself to the public. It had to play by the same rules (i.e. follow the same laws) as all other public accomodations. It did not and got smacked down for its discrimination as a result.
There exists no law that prohibits a business from discriminating against customers on the basis of said customers' choice of career.
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Re: Re: Times are changing
So if I were a Gay porn star, Chase would not have been able to close my banking account?
Do have have any clue how absurd this "sexuality based discrimination" argument sounds to rational ears?
.
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Re: Re: Re: Times are changing
Chase could legally close your account because you did porn and it doesn't want to associate with porn stars. Whether you starred in straight or gay porn doesn’t much matter.
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Re: Re: Times are changing
Only until a judge says otherwise.
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Re: Re: Re: Times are changing
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Times are changing
Yeah, some do, but a large (and increasing) number of people don't at all.
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Re: Re: Re: Times are changing
If you open a hotel in an area where laws prevent you from discriminating against gay people, you must either allow gay people to rent rooms or prepare to pay fines for flaunting the law.
And besides, civil rights laws such as non-discrimination ordinainces don't exist for minorities. They exist to remind the majority that minorities count as people and deserve all the same protections of law.
A business owner could refuse service to anyone, sure. But making a pattern out of refusing specific groups of people won't help when it comes to legal matters. Neither will admitting to discrimination under the guise of ‘freedom of religion’. When your doors open to the public, you either serve the whole public or you face the consequences.
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Re: Times are changing
Turning away business based solely on one's identity (man, woman, black, white, gay, straight, and inexplicably/weirdly, religious affiliation) is increasingly illegal. Turning away business based on one's occupation or business (e.g. Western Union not accepting business from adult industry, this) remains legal (and entirely dumb).
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Re: Times are changing
Oh, wait...
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Support Our Sluts.
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Re:
Seriously, what a bunch of hypocrites. I'm glad I don't bank with them. If we spread the word and encourage everyone else to move their accounts, perhaps they'll change their censorious ways.
To be honest, I'm down with people choosing who they will or won't serve*, but these are lying, conniving, Nazi-lovin', hypocritical douchebag people and they need to be called on it.
*Where there's enough competition so it's their loss. "Freedom" to me means the freedom to be a jerk — but not to be allowed to get away with it.
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No, they could still close the account due to you being a porn star, just not for being gay.
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Credit Unions?
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Re: Credit Unions?
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Re: Credit Unions?
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Stretching it much?
Love how to try to link Christians to this move and then name all sorts of things the bank has done that is not Christian in the least. Seems like you have taken a page right out of the left wing playbook. Fortunately the whole name calling by the left is starting to lose its impact. Seems if you cry wolf enough, people start ignoring you.
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Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Deflect much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
You would do well to strengthen your arguments before you make them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Such a thing happening lies within the realm of possibility. Never underestimate people and their ability to rationalize.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
I'd imagine the same rationalization that allows them to believe a magical man lives in the sky allows for that conclusion.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clark
Do tell, where is that line drawn?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
If I need further explaining: a quote from Arthur Clark doesn't change the fact that Christians basically believe in a magical man in the sky.
If you don't like the analogy, then feel free to change your story.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
But again, feel free to dispute anything I said about believing in a magical man in the sky...funny how you mention lack of intellect while promoting a belief that has ZERO foundation in science.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
But again, feel free to dispute anything I said about believing in a magical man in the sky...funny how you mention lack of intellect while promoting a belief that has ZERO foundation in science."
I'm not doing any such thing. I'm asking a valid question. Where is the line between "super advanced tech" and "magical man in the sky?" But you go right on ahead with your foaming anti-god screed, missing the point entirely, as you seem to have your agenda fixed in attacking anything that might even be slightly related to religion at the expense of any reason, arguments, or conversation.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
The ability to PROVE what you're seeing is real.
Protip: Don't discuss religion AND use the words "reason" "arguments" or "conversation" - religion allows for NONE of these.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
This would come as quite a surprise to Thomas Aquinas. You may have heard of him: he wrote some fairly lengthy books about religion that were full of arguments and reasoning.
Protip: Don't tell people discussing a topic what they can and can't say about it when you don't know what you're talking about.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Aquinas, like many Christian "philosophers" STARTS with God, and bases any further thoughts on that premise. That's not an argument, has no basis in reason, and steers the conversation based on a faulty premise.
Bertrand Russell: Before he begins to philosophize, he already knows the truth; it is declared in the Catholic faith. If he can find apparently rational arguments for some parts of the faith, so much the better; if he cannot, he need only fall back on revelation. The finding of arguments for a conclusion given in advance is not philosophy, but special pleading.
Seems like you were in such a hurry to quote him, that you fell for his argument.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Second, the implication you're making with that contrast is that God is not, in fact, magical and is just a being who is using incredibly advanced technology. In which case he's not actually a god at all.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
As a disputed quote that I like, "I like Christ, I don't like Christians. So many Christians are so unlike Christ" - Gandhi
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Well, I have a lot of chances, since I'm married to a wonderful Catholic woman, who doesn't seem to think that's true....
"Notice I didn't even mention conservatives in my statement?"
Um, you said I was leftwing, indicating I was attacking the right wing. But, ooooooh, you so got me? Mmmm, no....
"Almost feel bad for you that you allow something you don't even believe in to stick in your craw so much."
Interesting. Since you seem to know, please tell me exactly what it is that I believe?
"But that is how it goes for bigots."
What have I said that's bigoted?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Please, by all means, continue but you do realize you are no better than the people you claim to be against and for the very same reasons why you claim to be against them. You are only a hypocrite.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Not once.
Ever.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
By the way, what would you say about your daughter saying she wants to be a porn start or move to Nevada and become a legal prostitute? It is all well and good to talk a big game, but let your daughter attempt this and that conversation will go completely differently. Careful, your hypocrisy is showing.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
You felt offended at a tiny implication that conservatives and religious groups like companies that don't link themselves to porn. You blew a single comment way out of proportion. You would probably do well to examine your own biases and your own hypocrisy.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
I don’t decry conservatives or religious groups for disliking porn. Let ’em. Their position doesn’t matter to me unless they try to criminalize porn.
And I didn’t say if I’d approve of my loved ones participating in porn because I don’t need to say if I would. That has nothing to do with the fact that a not-zero number of conservatives and members of religious groups often disapprove of porn.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Of course you didn't answer the question because we already know the answer. So it makes you no different, except the hypocrisy part, than the religious groups.
That has nothing to do with the fact that a not-zero number of conservatives and members of religious groups often disapprove of porn.
And a non-zero number of liberals, non-religious, etc disapprove as well. But we didn't see them linked in here, did we? Which was my whole point which you seem to completely miss.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
I don’t see how you know. You don’t know me on a personal level and I never said what I felt on the subject. Unless you have psychic powers, you can’t know based on my refusal to answer your hypothetical.
And a non-zero number of liberals, non-religious, etc disapprove as well. But we didn't see them linked in here, did we?
I hear about conservatives and religious groups decrying porn all the time (up to and including the desire to ban/criminalize all porn). I don't hear as much about liberals and agnostics/atheists doing the same. I know people in the latter situation exist, but those people don’t often try to enforce their disapproval of porn on others.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Shit, man, welcome to Techdirt. You just described nearly every AC and detractor here. They almost never have an actual *argument*, just complaints, ad homs, strawmen, bad analogies, and personal attacks.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
He does it all the time (about conservative Christians) and I agree it's tiresome.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Also, beams in eyes and all that. When Religious or Conservative types stop judging others, they can complain about being judged themselves.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
Therefore, since I know that he's actually referring to Far Right authoritarians, not to moderates like me, I'm not offended. Unless you're of the "What War On Women?" persuasion (which I doubt), there's no reason for you to be offended.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
He attacks people who misunderstand what Christianity is about.
In this case the relevant text is from St Matthew's Gospel Ch 5:
"44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?"
Clearly implying that regardless of how much you may disapprove of what someone does denying service to them is not an option.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
I'll further note that I didn't mention Christians at all in the article. My, the opportunistically offended sure are crazy....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
And my wife is a talented, intelligent, moral and religious person. If I were making snide comments and "abusing" her mentally, she'd first kick my ass in an argument and then leave me, as she should in that scenario.
Fortunately, not all of us that have a version of faith are as ignorant and morally repugnant as you. It would taint all people of faith if we were. We are not.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
What have I said that's bigoted?"
You said something that disagreed with his worldview. That makes you a de facto bigot, especially on the internet. Just be glad he didn't Godwin you as well.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stretching it much?
He said "bash" not... oh, forget it...
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Re: Re: Stretching it much?
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Re: Stretching it much?
It's not Techdirt's problem that you automatically associate intolerance and hypocritical self-righteousness with Christians. And that strikes me as quite a prejudiced and unfair view; if I were Christian I'd be quite offended!
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Re: Stretching it much?
I don't buy that because using it is an appeal to authority and a genetic fallacy. It also assumes a low bar for entry, but that's another issue. However, Tim didn't mention Christians. Not even once. So don't get your panties in a wad.
There's a multiplicity of conservative-minded religious groups in America, many of which are not Christian and many of which are politically active. You might find yourself rubbing shoulders with them at an anti-porn rally, or something, one day.
The funny thing is, it's likely that many of the most apparently hardcore people there will turn out to bet the most frequent users of some very nasty stuff. Seriously, don't get me started on right wing hypocrisy. As the Liberals say, "Don't like it, don't use it." I don't always agree with them but I think that's fair.
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odd legal quirk
But then maybe the difference between what's legal and what's illegal depends, as usual, on who is throwing money at politicians, judges, and lawyers.
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Re: odd legal quirk
Doesn’t prostitution have only one ‘paid’ party (the prostitute), whereas porn producers pay all participants?
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Re: Re: odd legal quirk
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Re: odd legal quirk
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Re: Re: odd legal quirk
Don't forget, one in the hand is worth two in the bush!
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Re: Re: odd legal quirk
Jenna Jameson got away with it. She owned the production company, signed the paychecks, as well as fornicated with the people she paid in a quid-pro-quo arrangement. That would seem to fit the very definition of "prostitution" -- unless maybe women can't legally be charged as "johns"?
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How is it shaming?
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erm...screw chase...
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Re: erm...screw chase...
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Motivation -- Where is Chase going next? China?
Remind me to keep my sex life and toys completely separate from my bank!
So what might they achieve by this? Are there really a bunch of Christian wingnuts that are suddenly going to do business with them? Quick, someone show me I'm wrong! But China *IS* busy having a porn crackdown...so this looks awful good to the chinese...or the saudis...or a big republican, like the next president of the US? who is it being buttered up for the big kill???
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Husband orgies and un-well known "stars"
Then I thought "Who's really out there researching bank account information and says 'oh no porn stars use this bank, my husband might walk in there and end up in an orgy.'" I mean, REALLY??
My final thought was "I guess the girls in porns who STILL have their Chase accounts and DIDN'T obtain these letters are realizing how unknown they actually are"
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Re: Husband orgies and un-well known "stars"
You, sir, have just come up with a plot idea for a new film.
I would suggest "Chaste" as the name of the bank.
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Re: Re: Husband orgies and un-well known "stars"
*BOW CHICKA BOW WOW*
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My plan to take the high morality road would not be to add another hardship to the people most likely to have been exploited by the porn industry.
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How do they know?
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Re: How do they know?
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Re:
That's not actually true. Certain, specifically listed types of prejudice is no-go (race, religion, gender, etc.) but anything that's not in the list is perfectly legal.
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You are correct when speaking of the USA. I believe Ninja is not from the US (Brazil, maybe?).
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Justice Dept: Operation Choke Point
Here are a couple of articles about it:
“Operation Choke Point” harmful to flow of commerce
DOJ's 'Operation Choke Point' May Be Root of Porn Star Bank Account Closings
To see the list of may be a "high risk" account, see this page from the FDIC (scroll down about halfway). It includes many legal but "socially undesirable" operations, as:
Ammunition Sales
Coin Dealers
Dating Services
Drug Paraphernalia
Get Rich Products
Money Transfer Networks
PayDay Loans
Pornography
Racist Materials
Telemarketing
Tobacco Sales
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Re: Justice Dept: Operation Choke Point
Even telemarketers seems out of place on that list, as much as I hate them.
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Re: Re: Justice Dept: Operation Choke Point
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Re: Re: Justice Dept: Operation Choke Point
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Re: Justice Dept: Operation Choke Point
Ammunition Sales
Coin Dealers
Dating Services
Drug Paraphernalia
Get Rich Products
Money Transfer Networks
PayDay Loans
Pornography
Racist Materials
Telemarketing
Tobacco Sales"
Wait! How about my bribes taking Congressman?
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Original story on Reason.com
link here: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/reason/HitandRun/~3/QkJkGVaPUCg/doj-operation-chokepoint-and-porn-sta rs
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So legal = moral?
Much like Abercrombie & Fitch not producing larger size because it only wants skinny people wearing their clothes.
Chase believes it is acceptable for it to discriminate if it doesn't like your career.
What's to stop them from discriminating against unattractive people?
...or jobless people?
...or crazy people?
...or gun-owners?
...or people recovering from drug problems?
...or people with poor driving records?
...or gamers?
...or goths?
...or furries?
...or bronies?
...or people who are opinionated on the internet?
There are countless fringe groups, minorities and countercultures that are not popular with the mainstream but are not specifically protected by our anti-discrimination laws. Just because it is legal to refuse them business doesn't mean it is moral or ethical.
Seems there's a lot of confusing those sets, what is legal and what is right.
As of this posting I have not received a US National Security Letter or any classified gag order from an agent of the United States
This post does not contain an encrypted secret message.
Wednesday, April 30, 2014
pea indian hostpital padlock entrance fever crisps cockroach
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Re: So legal = moral?
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Re: So legal = moral?
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Cash
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Is doing any other then missionary position is also disqualifying?
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Anyone with an ounce of ethical backbone is already avoiding them.
It's the stripper's own fault for not moving her accounts to a smaller bank years ago.
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Wonder?
OR is there a CLAUSE to cover them for refusing services.
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Let's See Chase's Real Colors
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666 Banking Morality
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Re: 666 Banking Morality
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...performers in swap.avi?
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I'm glad I closed my Chase account
Even if Chase weren't a hypocritical, megalomaniacal, criminal organization, they're still an awful bank.
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2600+ Uses of 'Slutshames' on TechDirt?!?!
No wait, boooo... the sites' search indexer is indexing every page where this story appeared at least once under Essential Reading-> Hot Topics.
So 2600+ hits... of just this one article :S You should get your intern to fix that Mike, would make it much easier to find stuff on your site :)
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webmaster forum
https://bonusum.com webmaster forum
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