4th Grader Suspended For Properly Completing Assignment With A Nerf Gun
from the right-on-target dept
Given the stories we've covered in the past in which schools and their administrators massively overreact in the name of children's safety, I suppose these stories really shouldn't surprise me as much as they do. I mean, given that we've seen administrators lose their minds over pop tarts, fingers, and even drawings, should I really be shocked that a fourth grader was suspended from his Georgia elementary school for bringing in a nerf gun? No, probably not, but a lack of surprise doesn't mean I can't get angry that a kid that properly completed his damned assignment was suspended for it.
So why did young Ramsey McDonald bring the nerf gun, which shoots terrifying soft little foam balls out of it, to class? Because he was told to, that's why.
After a couple of days into the school year, fourth grader Ramsey McDonald of Warner Robins was given what he thought was a fun assignment. Bring in some of your favorite toys to talk about.Well, bang up job, Warner Robbins Elementary, because Ramsey dutifully completed that assignment, but it's going to be pretty hard for his classmates to get to know him now that he's serving a 3 day in-school suspension. For bringing in a toy, mind you, that is rated for six-year-olds and up, since it is about as harmful as a really tiny pillow covered in a newborn puppy's love. It's a toy. He was told to bring in a toy. Hell, it could have even served as a simple teaching moment for Ramsey about thinking of the larger context of things before making a decision. Instead, all he's learned is that bureaucracy breeds this kind of overprotective nonsense. Well, that plus he learned that he has more common sense than the adults at his school.
"They were trying to get the kids to know each other," his father, Scott McDonald said.
"He told me he didn't know they would think it was a weapon or he wouldn't have brought it to school," McDonald said.Well, of course not, because it's not a freaking weapon, it's a toy, which is exactly what he was asked to bring in. Sitting this kid outside of his class on suspension for three days for properly completing his assignment is crazy-pants.
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Filed Under: elementary school, nerf gun, toys, zero tolerance
Companies: warner robbins elementary
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the blind leading the deaf and dumb
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Re: the blind leading the deaf and dumb
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This looks like a job for
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Someone think of the children!!
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Re: Someone think of the children!!
"I Am Jack's Medulla Oblongata"
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There actually IS a danger to the children here...
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Re: There actually IS a danger to the children here...
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Re: Re: There actually IS a danger to the children here...
1. School hasn't started yet.
2. The person named in that story isn't the Superintendent of HISD.
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Re: Re: Re: There actually IS a danger to the children here...
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Re: Re: There actually IS a danger to the children here...
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Ignorance is no excuse. It's the kid's own fault for not knowing how stupid adults are, stupid enough to think a toy is a weapon.
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Now he has 3 days off to play with his favorite toy.
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I retract my statement.
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Sort of, except it's during class time instead of after school (meaning the kid's not learning anything.) It's more serious than detention but less serious than an out of school suspension.
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Why?
What happens if his parents suddenly pull him out of those days for xxx reasons and horrors upon horrors teach him things at home during the short suspension period? Are they fined? Are they sued for "tortuous interference of stupid bureaucratic ignorance" or would they actually teach the kid that any idiot can run a school in America, and it seems they definitely do at his.
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If this is the type of thing they teach, he might be better off.
Why not keep him home? I'm guessing the school gets funded by student-days, so if he stays home the school loses money.
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I'm guessing he would serve the suspension when he got back.
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Reminds me of the time...
Up to that point, I had usually just left them in my carryon bag and let them go through the scanner - and nobody ever mentioned anything to me, but this time, I was bringing an abundance of them, so I figured I'd make it easier by taking them out and all of a sudden:
"Oh Noes! You can't take those through here!"
As if somehow the fact that they're visible to other passengers makes them dangerous.
My security scrutiny took a bit longer that day, and I learned my lesson - keep my toy guns hidden when I get to security, and nobody will ever make a big deal out of it.
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Re: Reminds me of the time...
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Re: Reminds me of the time...
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Stupid is as Stupid does
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Re: Stupid is as Stupid does
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GUNS AT SCHOOL
now days you'd be arrested tazed suspended shamed for something that is not a gun?
wtf america
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Re: GUNS AT SCHOOL
Then in Grade 5, I made a flamethrower. In class. As part of a science experiment. Worst thing that happened with that one was it was an alcohol burner (yes, I was also using alcohol at school) and I soaked my thumb in it during my demonstration. This would have been fine, except when I fired off my cap gun in the playground later (oh yeah; I kept that in my desk at school), my thumb was close enough to the flash from the cap that it lit on fire. Before that I had always thought that ethanol fully evaporated within minutes. Lesson learned.
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Now, when people will go after the true responsible for this crime, that hardass arms dealer, Nicholas S. Klaus?
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Well, yes, an in-school suspension IS the lightest form... OF SUSPENSION. Which involves taking the kid out of the classroom for three days.
If they consider a three-day in-school suspension to be "minor", that might be half the problem. It's not minor.
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Teaching contempt for authority
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Re: Teaching contempt for authority
Imagine if someone had read Dune and is secretly manipulating the schools in the US in order to better strengthen democracy...
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Re: Re: Teaching contempt for authority
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The TSA conditioning people to allow them to be groped and molested because "national security reasons"
The police conditioning people to respect their authority or get shot, or beaten up, or even have their door kicked in by "mistake"
Now you have your children being conditioned to see anything that can be used as a weapon as dangerous, instead of teaching them proper safety.
Americans are being conditioned to accept a tyranny in the name of democracy and freedom.
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Hurry! Somebody call....
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Where is the freedom in that? They are kids darn it! It is a nerf gun, something like throwing balls of wool at each other without the actual throwing. Kind of feels like an improved version if this(more fear of anything):
"Bowling for Columbine - A brief history of the United States of America "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nus9BZlAfQ
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Weapons you can't bring to school
Paper clips
Pencils
Fists
Feet
Pens
Books
Common sense
Paper, its razor sharp!
Boots
Rulers
Compass
Elbows
Push pins
Thumb tacks
Calculators
Critical thinking skills
Toys, especially if they are related to violence
Lastly....
Real guns, knives, swords and other weapons.
On second thought just stay home in your padded cell, it's the only way to be sure your safe at school.
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Re: Weapons you can't bring to school
They just want obedient fearful drones
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I don't get it. If the school has a no guns (even toy guns) rule, why would the class assignment suddenly make that go away? I know nerf guns aren't going to hurt anyone, but they are still a gun, no different from a cap gun or similar. If they are against the rules the other 364 days a year, why would the parent suddenly think it's okay?
If you re-read the story in the other direction, it seems more like a bad parenting day. The rule is stupid, but the parent should realize that they apply.
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1. If one parent was an 'NRA' type, I'd be willing to wager that the kid would have learned gun safety or would not have been able to take the tec-9 to class. People I know in and out of NRA who own weapons and have kids are generally most careful about teaching gun safety from an early age and or keeping kids from getting their hands on guns in the first place.
2. There is a fundamental difference between a gun and a toy, even if the toy is designed and built to mimic the look and behavior of a gun. There is a fundamental difference between a pastry which just happens to look somewhat like a gun and a gun. Outrage here arises from the fact the school either could not or (more likely) would not recognize that fundamental difference.
3. The parent probably did not consider a nerf toy to be a gun or to fit within the schools definition of a gun, and so did not anticipate the reaction by the school.
4. The teacher in this scenario is the one who screwed up in a big way. The teacher essentially set the student up to fail. Far as I'm concerned the teacher needs some serious disciplinary action for doing that to the student, and the staff - running from the teacher all the way up to the head of the board of education should face some serious consequences. Termination seems about right in this case.
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2. There is a difference between a toy gun and a real gun, but the schools do not want the kids growing up with a gun culture, so even toy guns / projectile firing devices / weapon like items are banned. The difference between them isn't relevant for a straight forward rule like that.
3. What part of gun isn't in the term "nerf gun"? School says no toy guns or weapons, so it's pretty simple.
4. Are you suggesting that the teacher needs to have one of those "disclaimer" routines like you hear on radio commercials for contests? Do you think the students (and parents) are so dumb that they cannot be asked to bring a favorite toy to school without considering the rules that apply every day? Do you think American parents must be spoon fed every step of the way?
The rule isn't hard to understand, unless you are working real hard to be ignorant. The teachers request doesn't mean the students can just chuck the rules out the window for the day.
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ie: Yo Yo's, Baseball bats, javelins, Lego, Barbie dolls, Metal Die Cast cars, etc etc.
A toy gun by its very nature and look has no reasonable expectation in any way whatsoever in being used as a weapon BY ANYONE of sound mind and reason.
Whether toy guns are in the 'policy' or not is irrelevant, unless they specifically stated those 'exceptions' to toys allowed to be brought to school vis a vis the project means the nerf gun was and should be specifically allowed.
Actually a teachers request is specific reason to 'chuck the rules' out for a day based on exceptions since the teacher to a student and parents is a figure of authority.
Basically the teacher is the vicariously liable problem in this situation, though no reasonable person would expect them to be at fault either. Just you it seems
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You are correct, but it's not really the point. I could do some serious damage with the plastic rulers and the pink erasers issued in grade school as well. It's not the actual harm that is the issue here at all.
The issue is what the toy represents. A gun represents violence, something the school is trying to keep out. If the rules say "no toy guns, projectiles, weapons, etc" then the rule is the same as on every other day.
I think we can agree that the school is over reacting. However, it's also easy to see where they are coming from.
Basically the teacher is the vicariously liable problem in this situation, though no reasonable person would expect them to be at fault either. Just you it seems
Actually, I don't think the teacher is at fault here. I don't think that every school project needs to come with a tack on of legalese to make people understand that the school rules are still the school rules. That should be obvious. The issue here lies in a policy that is not flexible and a punishment that was applied without consideration - and a parent who didn't think (or didn't get involved) until after the fact.
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If one day there is a law outlawing your existence the Schadenfreude will be long and loud.
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The issue is that if you permit people to pick and choose which rules they like and which ones they don't, then we are solidly on the road to not having any laws at all.
If you don't like the rules, then work to CHANGE THEM. Don't just ignore them and then claim some wild hair free speech fourth amendment didn't know don't care excuse for breaking the rules. Work to change them.
If you can't change them because the majority of people don't want to change them, then you might want to consider it's you that needs changing.
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The "it's the rules" defense is the quickest and easiest form of guilt-free victim-blaming there is.
When rules are clearly not reasonable, it is not always reasonable to obey them, still less reasonable to enforce them, and still less reasonable for someone like you or I to support the enforcement of them.
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If you want to walk around crying like chicken little at the sight of a toy gun, be my guest. If nothing else, mentally challenged folks like yourself ARE entertaining to watch.
But please don't expect the rest of us to not choose to exercise common sense and critical thinking when appropriate, just because you have a paranoia about someone getting fatally injured by a Nerf gun.
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Organizations function by keeping the status quo and making sure things don't change. Did you think African slaves were capable of working to change the slavery laws they worked under? You don't change the rules of the game by playing according to the same damn rules wired to ensure that you lose.
But seeing that you're such a submissive little cocksleeve that can't get hard at the mention of disobedience it's not a surprise you're a completely whipped follower.
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How many school shootings were caused by parents actively training their kids to be school shooters? Training them how to use guns doesn't count...I'm talking about ones where the parents taught the kid(s) specifically to kill people.
I'll wait.
The issue is what the toy represents. A gun represents violence, something the school is trying to keep out. If the rules say "no toy guns, projectiles, weapons, etc" then the rule is the same as on every other day.
Guns, and toy guns, don't represent anything other than what YOU decide they do. For me guns have always represented freedom, justice, and safety. Growing up, with guns in my house, a military family, and trusting the police, I saw guns as something that were there to protect me from those who would do me harm.
The issue is that KIDS do not understand how something can be perfectly OK at home but suddenly is the most horrible thing ever at school. The school is undermining the parents in the worst way possible, assigning it's values to kids rather than being a place of learning. It's not the school's place to teach right and wrong, what's good and bad...that's the parents job. All it does is confuse kids and punish someone who hasn't done anything wrong.
I do agree that it's not really the teacher's fault...but I do believe that a little bit of common sense is required when teaching kids. Anyone with children knows that your kids do stuff you don't want them to. That's part of learning. I don't flip out and spank my daughter every time she bites...I teach her proper behavior. Is biting against the "rules" of our house? Yes. Does that mean I need to punish her every time she breaks the rule even a little bit? It's called common sense, and we should be teaching it to our kids, not destroying it!
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school superintendant's mind set
"The Houston County Board of Education picked Mark Scott to replace Robins Hines, who will retire June 1."
"Scott says his work as a corrections officer in a Milledgeville prison lead him into the education field."
See: http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/perry/2014/04/09/mark-scott-leads-houston-county-schools/7516 283/
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From the School District's web page
(edited fro mirth and brevity)
"Our values are:
- Safety is our number one priority.
- We take responsibility for learning, not only for our students but also for ourselves.
In addition to our mission, vision and beliefs, we emphasize “The Houston County Way,” which reflect our tradition of excellence and the way we endeavor to do business every day. The Houston County Way is:
Strive for excellence in all that we do.
Have a professional attitude.
Go the extra mile.
Base decisions on what’s best for the child.
Provide quality customer service.
Hard work, dedication and love for children.
Do things right; do the right thing.
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IF it says.... Dollars to donuts, that particular language is not in the rules
Yes, the school is very definitely and unquestionably over-reacting. As to where they're coming from...No.
The teacher is at fault, period. There was a choice - warn the kids about the no guns policy including toys when handing out the assignment or accept the consequences of the decision not to warn the kids, which in this case involved a toy shaped and acting like a gun. The error was in punishing the kid for following directions. That is an unpardonable sin in any moral or legal system. The district created the circumstances which led to this happening, so the district is equally responsible.
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Okay children, please bring your favorite toys to school tomorrow, however:
- no guns.
- nothing that looks like a gun.
- nothing that shoots anything
- no knives
- nothing sharp
- nothing that looks like a knofe
- no brass knucles
- no crowbars or other metal implements
- no hand grenades
- no WMDs
- nothing that looks like an WMD
- no power substances
- no snakes or other live animals
So the teacher is up there for the rest of the day reading off a laundry list of things that the kids can't bring to school for this toy day, even though the school rules already cover all of it.
Quite possibly the teacher sounds like one of thos fast talking radio commercial guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omiuTlfv8d8
That would certainly improve the child's school experience, and cover all of the bases - of course, that assumes that they don't need to read them all of the local and federal laws regarding illegal weapons.
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My old Action Man commando brought in would probably warrant a Waco-level response...
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Entrapment?
So is this really a test to see which kids will fall for the school's double-speak? "You should bring in a toy that you enjoy playing with unless it's on the school's 'dangerous weapons' list. See also: pop tarts, rubber bands, etc."
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stupid people indeed
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