Court Tells DOJ To Stop Stalling And Figure Out If People Suing Over No Fly List Can Get Off
from the pick-up-the-pace dept
Back in June, we wrote about an important ruling from a court in Oregon that found the process of getting off the Homeland Security "no fly list" to be unconstitutional. The government has continued to try to stall over this, but the judge has basically told the Justice Department to speed things up and to tell the plaintiffs whether or not they're still on the list, so that further legal action can move forward, if necessary (and, yes, it's likely necessary). From the official ruling:No later than October 10, 2014, Defendant shall identify to the Court and Plaintiffs which Plaintiffs, if any, will not be precluded as of that date from boarding a commercial aircraft flying over United States airspace.The court tells the US government that as soon as it realizes any of the plaintiffs shouldn't be on the list it needs to inform them of that fact, and for those that remain on the list, it needs to give a detailed reason:
If Defendants determine after the interim substantive review of a Plaintiff's status that such Plaintiff is not presently eligible to fly over United States airspace, Defendants shall promptly and consistent with the Court's Opinion and Order of June 24, 2014:It's pretty clear the judge finds the whole no fly list situation to be ridiculous, and the fact that these people haven't been able to fly for years with no recourse problematic:
(a) give such Plaintiff notice of that determination;
(b) give such Plaintiff an explanation of the reasons for that determination sufficient to permit the Plaintiff to provide Defendants relevant information responsive to such reasons; and
(c) consider any such responsive information provided before completing the substantive reconsideration of such Plaintiff's DHS TRIP redress inquiry as ordered herein.
The Court notes the importance, complexity, and sensitivity of the issues raised and the remedies to be implemented in this matter preclude proceeding with undue haste. Nevertheless, in light of the fact that each Plaintiff has presumably been prevented from flying internationally and otherwise over United States airspace during the four years this matter has been pending, the Court concludes the time has come to resolve the claims of each Plaintiff on an individualized basis as soon as practicable.It seems entirely likely that the DOJ and DHS will continue to try to stall and delay, but Judge Anna Brown makes it fairly clear in her ruling that she's not interested in stalling attempts and will not treat them kindly.
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Filed Under: dhs, doj, no fly list, tsdb
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But they CAN fly
I hear Jim Bob's crop dusting and travel service is available as long as they aren't on his "No Flies" list (he's touchy about hygiene).
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Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
Now if the judge refuses to buy it, and actually pushes, then things could get interesting, though I'm not sure exactly what the judge could do if the DOJ/DHS refuses to cooperate.
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Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
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Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
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Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
If the local police show up, demand that they enforce the court order as well, or stand aside. Viva la revolution!
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Re: Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
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Re: Re: Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
Barring a complete and explicit transition to dictatorship, this isn't going to happen.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
The legislative branch writes the laws that the DoJ helps to enforce, so all three branches work together in this effort (and are supposed to be a check for each other), but none of them derive their authority from the other.
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Re: Don't need a magic ball to see where this will head...
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Precedent?
Maybe they can use 'You look like you have Ebola' as their new excuse...oh wait!
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Hurray for Liberty!
No wait... the price our veterans have paid for this... we citizens are undeserving of their sacrifice and Bush amplified greatly by the likes of Obama are only here to ENSURE we PAY for not realizing what it is we HAD!
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Times are indeed changing and the government is going from because we said so to panic mode one step at a time, with a foot drag between each.
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Re:
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Aww, isn't that cute? A judge actually thinks the government cares what the courts say.
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Surely the DHS has to abide by a judges ruling no matter what and if they do not the Judge has the power to punish them, and even demand prison sentences for the top executives.
I can see Judges all over the country demanding to know if the DHS is above the law if this Judge is ignored.
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Re: Re:
If the judge were to order the names stricken from the no-fly list and forbid them from being re-added without his permission. He could fine the airlines $250,000 to each plaintiff each time an airline refuses to let one of them fly, then something would likely happen. The airlines have to pay, or the plaintiffs could start ceasing assets and auctioning them off.
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That said I'd expect stonewalling and deflection rather than outright defiance and refusal, as while any number of government agencies have demonstrated that they believe themselves to be above the law, it's in their best interest to keep it 'unofficial' as long as possible, so they and the rest of the government can keep pretending that everything is just fine and nothing needs investigation or fixing.
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Non-Executive armed agencies?
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Frank Herbert had it right.
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Tilting at windmills
Then the government will add the plaintiffs back onto the list (or onto another list, since the government has many of these lists) and the plaintiffs will have to start from scratch.
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And now for something completely different
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