Rep. Mike Rogers, On His Way Out Of Congress, Slams Obama For Not Launching Premature Cyberwar Against North Korea

from the and-for-not-giving-his-precious-nsa-your-data dept

Mon, Dec 22nd 2014 9:15am — Mike Masnick

Rep. Mike Rogers is just about out of Congress, but the NSA's biggest defender (despite his supposed role in "overseeing" the agency) is using his last days on Capitol Hill to keep pushing his favorite causes. Over the weekend, he complained that President Obama basically should have gone to "cyberwar" with North Korea over the Sony hack.

“Unfortunately, he’s laid out a little of the playbook,” Rogers said. “That press conference should have been here are the actions.” ...

Without discussing specifics, Rogers said the U.S. has the capability to cripple North Korea’s cyberattack capabilities, which have been rapidly improving over the last few years.

“I can tell you we have the capability to make this very difficult for them in the future,” he said.

And I can tell you that Mike Rogers is full of bluster with little basis. First off, there is still some fairly strong skepticism in the actual computer security field that North Korea was behind the hack. Launching an all out attack without more proof would seem premature. Second, Rogers is simply wrong or clueless. We don't have the capability to "cripple" anyone's "cyberattack capabilities" unless he means taking out the entire internet. There are always ways around that. Even the reports that we've seen that do blame North Korea don't seem to think the full attack came from North Korea, so doing something like taking the few internet connections in North Korea off the map wouldn't do much good if the actual attack came from, say, China or Eastern Europe or somewhere else.

Third, can we just get over this ridiculous idea that a hack of one company, which may or may not have been by actors working for a government, is an act of either "terrorism" or "war." It's not. It's a hack. Tons of companies get hacked every day. Some have good security and still get hacked. Some, like Sony, appear to have terrible security and get hacked very easily. It's not terrorism. It's not war. It's a hack. We shouldn't be talking about retaliation or destroying countries over a hack. We should be talking about better security. Jim Harper does a good job explaining why an overreaction is a bad idea:

The greatest risk in all this is that loose talk of terrorism and “cyberwar” lead nations closer to actual war. Having failed to secure its systems, Sony has certainly lost a lot of money and reputation, but for actual damage to life and limb, you ain’t seen nothing like real war. It is not within well-drawn boundaries of U.S. national security interests to avenge wrongs to U.S. subsidiaries of Japanese corporations. Governments in the United States should respond to the Sony hack with nothing more than ordinary policing and diplomacy.

But, no, not Mike Rogers. Instead, he's using this as his opportunity to push for his favorite bad law: giving the NSA more power to sift through your data:

Rogers, who is retiring from Congress in just a few days, made a final plug for his bill to facilitate cybersecurity information sharing between the private sector and National Security Agency (NSA). The measure passed the House, but stalled in the Senate, held up by privacy concerns.

It’s necessary, Rogers argued, if the U.S. wants to protect itself from similar attacks in the future. Because of laws on the books, the NSA is limited in its ability to protect private critical infrastructure networks.

“This isn’t about reading your email, it’s about reading malicious source code,” Rogers said.

He's talking, of course, about his beloved CISPA, which would effectively remove any liability from companies for sharing your private data with the NSA (and the rest of the government). But, as per usual with Rogers, he's wrong about nearly all of the details. There is nothing in CISPA that would have made it so the NSA could have "protected" Sony. Sony's problem here was Sony's terrible computer security. So, no, we don't need CISPA or other cybersecurity legislation to better protect the internet.

And is Mike Rogers really trying to argue that Sony's private intranet is "critical infrastructure"?

Finally, there's nothing in the law today that stops a company from sharing "malicious source code" with the government or others. We already have a good way for dealing with that that doesn't require a new law that gives the NSA more access to everyone's data.

Either way, it looks like Rogers is going out in typical fashion -- shooting his mouth off in favor of his friends and pet projects, without actually understanding or caring about the details. No wonder he's going into AM talk radio. He'll be a perfect fit.

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Filed Under: cispa, cyber terrorism, cyberwar, exaggerations, mike rogers, north korea, sony hack, terrorism, war

93 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:25am

Nothing in the law?
"Finally, there's nothing in the law today that stops a company from sharing "malicious source code" with the government or others."

Ahem. Except perhaps copyright. Even if it's malicious, it's still covered by copyright... I'm waiting for the day one of these hackers comes forth and claims statutory damages from reverse-engineered malware.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:26am

"Tons of companies get hacked every day."

True, but how many hacks are accompanied with threats of physical violence against innocent persons?

Clearly you do not like Rogers, but that is no good reason to take his comments and present them with a spin that does not reflect the context of what was actually said. You are sounding much, much more like an partisan advocate than a journalist.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:32am

Re: Nothing in the law?
I'm fairly sure a federal investigation is covered under fair use.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:33am

OMG! Cyberattack
“North Korea’s Internet link is flaky today”, North Korea Tech, Dec 22, 2014
... “I haven’t seen such a steady beat of routing instability and outages in KP before,” said Doug Madory, director of Internet analysis at Dyn Research. “Usually there are isolated blips, not continuous connectivity problems. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are absorbing some sort of attack presently.”...

(H/T “North Korea's internet appears to be under mass cyber attack”, by Max Fisher, Vox, Dec 22, 2014)
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jupiterkansas (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:35am

Re:
Then complain about the threats of violence, not the hacking.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:35am

Re:
NK's first response to everything is to threaten violence. That's just NK's opening negotiation and diplomacy tactic.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:36am

Because going to war has worked out so well for us.

The war to end all wars was fought twice.
The war on drugs has done nothing but enrich a few.
The war on terror has shown that we can be worse than those we call terrorist.
A cyberwar will do nothing but funnel more money and resources into something endless that will serve no actual purpose. It will escalate from tit for tat, until someone decides that isn't enough and there must be blood shed to prove they are the best.

He is a moron, he will not be missed. His desire for a more fearful populace beholden to the snake oil saviors, paying them protection money for the magic rock that repels tigers, made the entire world worse off. He is a prime example of someone more beholden to corporate bottom lines than representing those who elected him to make their lives better. He would burn allow the public to be crushed in his rush to shovel more money into the corporate coffers.

I look forward to seeing which corporate sponsor takes him on, so we can see how little it cost to subvert the ideals of a nation.
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John Fenderson (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:37am

Re:
I'm not sure I see how the existence of such threats changes anything at all regarding this point. The Sony hack was just that -- a hack. Even if North Korea did it (which I think is more doubtful now than ever), it's hardly something that should be responded to on a war footing. It's just a hack against a single company, and a relatively unimportant hack at that.

This looks for all the world like Rogers (and, presumably, the cadre he runs around with) looking for any possible excuse to get into a war.
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JEDIDIAH, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:41am

The revolution will not be televised.
The problem with his bluster is that a "cyberwar" is perhaps something that you do NOT want to advertise. Unless he's suggesting a format declaration of war an everything, it is perhaps best that we don't advertise the fact that we are going to be engaging in dirty tricks outside of some formal declaration.

Cyberwar is more like espionage than conventional warfare.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:42am

Re:
The context is that Rogers has consistenhtlyand vehemently lied about this kind of thing before, possibly intentionally.

So, yes, I think it is reasonable to read into those comments a negative outcome.
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beltorak (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:42am

"Damnit! Why couldn't it have been kiddie porn? That would have sold the dumb Americans!"

- Mike Roger's Internal Monologue
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:44am

Re:
I'm sure his team will sprinkle some of that on NK servers to justify getting non-boots-on-the-ground boots on the ground.
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Groaker (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:45am

How does Rogers even know that NK wasn't attacked in return? Does anyone think that NK would admit it, or that the US would brag about it -- it would give NK an excuse to shell, bomb, or invade SK.

SONY has terrible security, refuses to improve it, and practically invites crackers in.

Worse, Sony has committed massive numbers of rootkit attacks, on audio CDs played on computers, against Americans and others. If everybody whose computer was damaged by Sony, attacked in return, Sony could give up computers for ever.

War doesn't work well for the losers or the winners. Talking, no matter how inane, is a far better solution than destruction, maiming and death.
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Max (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:48am

Hold on...
There seems to be a lot of confusion about things coming out of the mouth of a politician - any politician - having anything to do with reason, facts, sane and desirable actions or anything of that sort, as opposed to simply being whatever things said politician thinks "his" people want to hear him say. Unfortunately, not everyone takes them as such.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:50am

Re:
I'm not sure Rogers knows that North Korea has a substantial amount of artillery in range of major population centers in South Korea. He's never really struck me as the well informed type.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:55am

Re:
Threats of violence are now considered a National Security issue? Come One... they may be a law enforcement issue, but not National Security.

This is a private company that was hacked and nothing more. the rest is just empty threats unless there is some kind of evidence to the contrary.

Masnick may have a beef with Rodgers, but his article is on point.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:01am

Re: Re:
...North Korea has a substantial amount of artillery...

“Graphic: North Korea’s Conventional Arms”, by Richard Johnson, Andrew Barr and Jonathon Rivait, National Post, April 10, 2013
“North Korea's Conventional Forces visualized”
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:04am

Re:
Angry .. very very Angry. Need a Holiday hug?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:06am

Re:
How does Rogers even know that NK wasn't attacked in return? Does anyone think that NK would admit it, or that the US would brag about it
It would not be the first time that this administration bragged about something when the diplomatically wise choice was to remain silent.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:09am

The truth is they don't know who did it and blindly swinging at a few maybe people is more in lines with a drunken bar fight, I don't understand these idiots when everything is an act of war , hell they should be counting their blessings American Citizens don't act and respond the same or all their bribe taking asses would be impaled on the white house lawn.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:09am

Any bets on who Mike Rogers goes to work for after his term?
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Roger Strong (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:20am

It may not be terrorism, but it's still unusually significant. Sony - from the lack of prosecution for it's rootkit to the demands it made to press outlets last week - demonstrates why. So does Rep. Mike Rogers, every time he opens his mouth:

Communism was once China's highest ideal, while in the US it was democracy, capitalism and citizens' rights. They've apparently agreed to meet half-way at authoritarian capitalism.

The attack on Sony is an attack on the emerging political system of both countries.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:28am

Re: Re:
...the diplomatically wise choice was to remain silent.

“State Dept. Says North Korea Should Pay Back Sony for Cyberattack”, by Pete Kasperowicz, The Blaze,Dec. 22, 2014
. . . Weekend reports suggested that North Korea may have lost access to the Internet, which led to questions Monday about whether the U.S. was behind that. [State Dept. spokeswoman Marie] Harf didn’t deny that the U.S. was behind that outage, and said only that the U.S. was in the process of responding to the cyberattack.

“As we implement our responses, some will be seen, some may not be seen,” she said. . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:28am

Re: Re:
Conspiracy theorists might even suggest this hack was staged to help push through some otherwise-unnecessary legislation...
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John Fenderson (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re:
That's just silly speculation, though, for two reasons: first, there is no evidence to suggest that and second, there's no need to stage such a hack. Worse hacks happen every day anyway. All that would be needed is to pick one and harp about it endlessly in the media. Which is, in my opinion, exactly what happened.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:36am

Mike Rogers, you're out of touch and out of office. Good riddance you douche-canoe.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:46am

'No wonder he's going into AM talk radio. He'll be a perfect fit.'

i assume everyone else at the station has agreed to take reductions in air time, so Rogers can say what he wants? i mean he wouldn't be able to in just a normal slot, would he!
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william (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:51am

North Koreans don't care your Capitalist Pigs launching your precious "Cyber attacks".

You cannot attack what doesn't exist, so the joke is on you. hahaha.
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Groaker (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:01am

Re: Re: Re:
Without using nuclear weapons, wars are won on the ground. Vietnam was proof of this. As are Iraq, Afghanistan and many parts of Africa.

North Korea not only has weapons and allies, they have ground based forces trained and disciplined under conditions that 1st world nation forces would not be able to function under.

South Korea left its capital within artillery range of NK -- possibly one of the stupidest strategic decisions since the invasions of Afghanistan by the USSR and the US.

A US Vet.
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PRMan, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:04am

Re:
The war on drugs has done much more than nothing but enrich a few. Right or wrong, it has made the US the country with the highest prison population on earth.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:05am

I don't see how CISPA could have stopped Sony employees from putting their passwords in a network shared folder named Passwords. With the password set to 'password'.
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Roger Strong (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:06am

Re:
You laugh. Just wait until a spy satellite tasked with watching Pyongyang rickrolls the National Reconnaissance Office, after one of the massive parades in Kim Il-sung Square forms a giant QR code.
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PRMan, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re:
Thanks for that. I never knew that North Korea had so many strollers in their armed forces (J/K).
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hij (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:08am

DDoS
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hij (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:12am

DDoS'em all and let God Sort Them Out
This is a great idea. Since the majority of North Korea's Internet goes through China and is supplied by China then they should be quite happy when the US uses equipment in the PRC to get at one of their allies. It is time to go "full cowboy" and start shooting. Surely everything would go wonderfully, and the North Korean cyber people will welcome us with open arms.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:17am

United Fascists of America are amusing.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:19am

Re:
True, but how many hacks are accompanied with threats of physical violence against innocent persons?

If we're talking about totally bullshit, almost certainly without the capability to back it up, threats associated with hacks? An awful lot.

Clearly you do not like Rogers, but that is no good reason to take his comments and present them with a spin that does not reflect the context of what was actually said.

Feel free to put them back into context, because I'm pretty sure I've accurately represented them.
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John85851 (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:24am

An alternative...
Or maybe there are people sitting around in back rooms:
"You know guys, since we're pulling troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we have all these troops that we're using."
"And people are getting tired of hearing about ISIS, Putin, and Iran. Is there anyone else we can turn into a bad guy and rally behind?"
"How about Cuba? They've always been a good fall-back. But now Obama's making friends with them."
"Has anyone used North Korea recently? Bingo- our new boogeyman, out to destroy our freedoms with their cyberattacks on American companies!"
"Um, Sony is a Japanese company."
"Don't bother me with the details! Let's get this war started."
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:27am

So, was there any real evidence that NK was involved?
Or was it the same as with the Syrian gas attacks? Remember that they had "credible evidence" that they refused to share then a few months later it turned out to be bullshit.
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Socrates, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:43am

Rogers, who is retiring from Congress in just a few days, made a final plug for his bill to facilitate cybersecurity information sharing between the private sector and National Security Agency (NSA)

Because distributing even more information makes it easier to keep secrets?
Because hiring even more consultants to sift through information for NSA makes it easier to keep secrets?
Because by sharing any information with the private sector such as Sony, the information would be safe?

If USA really wanted to harm its opponents it should export Rogers!
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Rich Kulawiec, 22 Dec 2014 @ 11:53am

I'm throwing the BS flag on this one
“I can tell you we have the capability to make this very difficult for them in the future,” he said.

When you've built an entire economy on the kind of rickety "security" infrastructure that Sony epitomizes, it would be unwise to engage an enemy which hasn't...since you are vastly more vulnerable than they are. Particularly if there's no proof on the table -- and thus far, there is ZERO PROOF -- that they're actually the ones behind it.

Note: any claim on North Korea's part that they did it still leaves us with zero proof. Any threats on North Korea's part still leave us with zero proof. They claim stuff and make threats six times before breakfast, often involving things everyone knows they didn't do and things they couldn't possibly do.

If Mike Rogers disagrees, then I, for one, am perfectly happy to see him strike a blow for freedom. Let him be given a uniform, a parachute, and a rifle, and air-dropped into North Korea. Go get 'em, tiger!
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:08pm

Re: I'm throwing the BS flag on this one
When you've built an entire economy on the kind of rickety "security" infrastructure that Sony epitomizes, it would be unwise to engage an enemy which hasn't...since you are vastly more vulnerable than they are.

Especially as North Korea has a minimum use of the Internet, and the US has foolishly let large parts of its infrastructure be connected to the Internet.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re: Nothing in the law?
I'm fairly sure a federal investigation is covered under fair use.

IANAL, but I am pretty sure the federal government cannot be sued unless the federal government allows someone to sue them, and there is a very limited number of reasons the government can be sued.

A person claiming copyright on malware would have to submit their complaint within three years to the United States Court of Federal Claims. I suspect that would seriously cut back the number of claimants.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:36pm

Re: Re:
I take it you would have played the movie without any concern about the threat of violence. That would have placed you in the distinct minority.

As for accuracy, perhaps you can point to something said by Rogers that openly advocated for a "cyber war". I could find any such comment. I did read a comment by him critical of "proportionate response", but anyone who has followed international issues of late understands it is a term that has been used in the past to express anger with no subsequent overt act to hold the wrongdoer accountable in any meaningful manner.
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Blaine (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:36pm

Mike Rogers is an expert on hacks!!!
Like they say,

Takes one to know one.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:41pm

DPRK Cyber Capabilities
“North Korea’s Cyber Capabilities: Deterrence and Stability in a Changing Strategic Environment”, by Egle Murauskaite, 38 North, 12 September 2014
... While information about the DPRK’s cyber capabilities remains scarce and is based on hard to corroborate defector accounts, it is worth adopting a macro-perspective to analyze the influence of offensive cyber capabilities on North Korea’s broader strategy....

This article links to an HP Security Briefing, “Profiling an enigma: The mystery of North Korea’s cyber threat landscape”, August 2014
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: Re:
Should read "I could not find any such comment."
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John Fenderson (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re:
"I take it you would have played the movie without any concern about the threat of violence."

Personally, I certainly would have. The only thing more stupid than the threats was than anyone paid attention to them at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:09pm

Re:
...The war to end all wars was fought twice...

What we call the First World War was billed as "the war to end all wars". Who called the Second World War a war to end all wars?
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Groaker (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:21pm

Re: Re:
If the US bragged about a cyber attack on NK, NK would have no option but a massive retaliation.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
I take it you would have played the movie without any concern about the threat of violence. That would have placed you in the distinct minority.

I for one absolutely would have played the movie. This is supposed to be the land of the free and home of the brave.

Unfortunately, it seems to be neither.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re: Re:
If the US bragged about a cyber attack on NK...
Wasn't going to bother calling attention to a story that's hit Google News front page, the New York Times, Fox News, and SlashdotNorth Korea Is Experiencing a Full Internet Blackout”, by Dustin Volz, National Journal, Dec 22, 2014
A White House spokesman declined to comment on the apparent blackout, saying, "We don't have anything additional on North Korea to share today."

(H/T GovExec)

Extra tidbit, fwiw: NBC News earlier had a story with some unnamed government official denying that the U.S. had anything to do with the DPRK outage.
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william (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re:
Lol, I like the QR code idea.

What I meant is, North Korea doesn't really have a "internet" to speak of.

So you can't launch a cyber attack on a non-existing network.
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Socrates, 22 Dec 2014 @ 1:55pm

Re:
Mike Rogers(CISPA):"The bill would allow the government to share all of its classified cyber-security knowledge with private companies,"

bat shit crazy !

Mike Rogers(CISPA):"forming knowledge-sharing agreements that would hopefully keep China (and other countries and hackers) out of American computer networks."

Facepalm

By sharing all your secrets, all your secrets is shared!
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 2:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Most people likely agree with what you and another commenter have said, but then again I rather doubt you or he or they have the responsibility of owning and operating a movie theater or other large public venue. I share your sentiment as well, but cannot say with any degree of certainty that if I was the one running a theater and responsible for the safety of my customers that I would have bucked the trend and shown the movie anyway.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 2:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Most people likely agree with...
“More Americans disapprove of Sony film cancellation: Reuters/Ipsos poll”, by Mary Milliken, Reuters, Dec 22, 2014
• Forty-seven percent of respondents said...
• Another 29 percent of those polled said...
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 3:11pm

Re:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
I accidentally a phrase in there. The mind, it moves faster than the hands.

And yes, I am angry.
I am angry that a loudmouth elected leader is so selfcentered that he has to push his pet project as being the be all end all of it.
Congress has done fuckall, beyond give themselves another entitlement for $1000 a month so they can ride in luxury, while people are homeless, starving, dying of illnesses, and a whole host of issues that they can't bring themselves to address because the soundbite looks bad... but have no problems blaming the poor for being poor and asking for help.

Meh war to end all wars, it sounded good at the time.

We have imprisoned more people to enrich corporations, society is falling apart as more and more people are funneled into jail.
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spacy (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 3:22pm

Title
Um. Preemptive instead of premature?
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Socrates, 22 Dec 2014 @ 3:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Without using nuclear weapons, wars are won on the ground. Vietnam was proof of this. As are Iraq, Afghanistan and many parts of Africa.

True

But they may be lost because of stupidity. As in supporting the "opposition" in Syria and the "government" in Irak, in a common war zone where the "opposition" is the same.

North Korea not only has weapons and allies, they have ground based forces trained and disciplined under conditions that 1st world nation forces would not be able to function under.

And as USA have a history in the region things can turn badly unpredictably. A history with such things as spraying civilian population with napalm and white phosphorus, spraying rice fields with agent Orange, and so on.

Both the South- and North-Korea does a lot of posturing. The posturing will end if they believe the war has begun. This will be very bad.

South Korea left its capital within artillery range of NK -- possibly one of the stupidest strategic decisions since the invasions of Afghanistan by the USSR and the US.

To really point to the significance of this; this was the sole reason for the war between Soviet and Finland during the second world war. Leningrad (/St. Petersburg) is close to the Finnish border.

Soviet demanded control over sufficient territory to prevent shelling of Leningrad from Finland. Finland refused to cede any land at all and Soviet attacked as it desperately needed a buffer zone. This caused Finland to be allied with Nazi Germany, and Finnish Jews to fight alongside the Nazis.

The Finnish military never crossed into previous Soviet terretory but the Germans shelled and attacked Leningrad, and when the Germans lost, Soviet chose to not attack Finland again. If Soviet had not tried to prevent Leningrad to be shelled from Finland, it might not have been shelled!

The war also caused a lot of confusion about whom to consider the enemy in Scandinavia, as Norway were occupied by the Nazi, and Finland attacked by Soviet. People were considered war criminals for fighting on both sides! (Against Soviet in Finland, and with Soviet against the Nazi in Norway).
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R.H. (profile), 22 Dec 2014 @ 4:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Nothing in the law?
The federal government wouldn't be doing the infringing though. The infringing party would be whomever provided the copy of the code to the government from their own systems. That's who would be sued under this extremely unlikely scenario.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 5:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Are you really expecting a severely impoverished country to be so capable of deploying an information network to see exactly who watched the movie, and where, and individually track them down? Really?

Nobody believes you, Slonecker. It's obvious you're really just in it to rag on Masnick.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 7:24pm

'President Obama should have moved swiftly against North Korea following a cyberattack on Sony Pictures that has cost the company tens of millions of dollars..."

I'm loosing hope this Congress was going to be better than the last. They are all clueless.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 7:43pm

If N. Korea were able to pull off such a clever attack that it amounted to 'cyber crime' then the US, as a whole, should feel very embarrassed for sliding down so low on the food chain when it comes to IT skills.

No one is blaming Sony for having a hand in this with lax security even though they've had problems before.

That's equal to asking people to not think, not to figure out, not to challenge - which in my mind is more like a "cyber tryanny" which is far more frightening than any "terror attack" that a small poor country could do.

Somehow people in Congress have got to figure out this "internet-thing".
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 8:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
... if I was the one running a theater...
“Theater owners pleaded with Sony to consider a limited release of ‘The Interview’ ”, by Cecilia Kang, Washington Post, Dec 22, 2014
Several major and independent theaters pleaded with Sony Pictures Entertainment to consider limited distribution of the film but were rejected by the movie studio, according to a source familiar with the talks. . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 9:43pm

Attribution
“Key North Korean websites back online after shutdown”, by Foster Klug and Hyung-Jin Kim, Associated Press, Dec 23, 2014
... Last year, North Korea suffered similar brief Internet shutdowns of websites at a time of nuclear tensions with the U.S., South Korea and other countries. North Korea blamed Seoul and Washington for the outages....
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Dec 2014 @ 10:09pm

Re: Attribution
“A cyber conflict with North Korea is 'dangerous unchartered territory' ”, CNN, Dec 23, 2014
Chinoy: I'm not convinced that the U.S. government was behind the outage of the North Korean Internet.

The issue though is not whether it was or it wasn't, the issue is what the North Koreans think it was.

And I think it's safe to assume, unless they themselves took their system offline for their own security -- which is not impossible -- they'll be looking to respond. . . .
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techflaws (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 2:07am

Re: Re: Re:
That would have placed you in the distinct minority.

Says you based on what numbers/evidence?
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techflaws (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 2:12am

Re: Re:
Why don't you ask those cowards that are responsible for his justified anger? Or did you just completely fail a trolling?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 4:30am

Re: Re: Re:
I don't need to ask them. I vote them out of office, that's how I get my voice heard. I've long since stopped getting mad at these crooks.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 4:52am

Re: Re:
"And yes, I am angry."

You should point your anger at the sheeple that put these idiots in office. They are the crooks.....Republicans, Democrats, all crooks...

Politicians in the U.S. are doing at least one of three things with your money at all times. 1. taking your money and giving it to corporate interests. 2. taking your money and giving it to someone less fortunate (preferably one registered to vote) 3. taking your money and putting it in their pocket.

Power corrupts, we say this all the time, but we never do anything about it. We've centralized the power base to a collection of politicians that can't get to where they are without either being corrupt, or being corruptible. Both the people and business demand it, an honest man doesn't stand a chance.

So basically, IMHO, you have two choices. You can either get rid of them (short term solution.. till the next crook shows up) or change the system so this stops happening... either way we get the Government we deserve.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 6:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well...just how many theaters showed or are showing the film? I am not aware of any, but then I do not claim to have infallible information in hand.

Importantly, my comment was directed to a comment by the author of this article. It is such an easy thing to say without equivocation what one would do when one is not in a position where their neck is on the line, legally or otherwise. An honest answer would have been "I likely would have shown it had I had a copy of the film in hand, but to be honest I do not have all the relevant information in hand that would let me assess the pros and cons of showing the film for my customers and my business." Yes, this is not a utopian ideal answer. It is, however, a reality of competing interests that every business owner must consider.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 6:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So lemme get this straight - a nation state that can barely feed its own people, where electricity is a luxury, and the entire country's Internet access is fed via 4 links is capable or wreaking havoc on one of the most powerful nations on earth?

If that's truly the case, then the entire security theater we're spending ridiculous amounts of money on SUCKS, and everyone involved needs to be fired for gross incompetence.

I go back to my original comment - this is CLEARLY not the land of the free and home of the brave if you're so ready to let North Korea dictate what we can and cannot show in theaters.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 7:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
" An honest answer would have been "I likely would have shown it had I had a copy of the film in hand, but to be honest I do not have all the relevant information in hand that would let me assess the pros and cons of showing the film for my customers and my business.""

I actually think that we do have all the relevant information to assess the pros and cons. I would have shown the movie, and I think that the theaters that balked are not only cowardly, but engaged in yet another small act of degradation of our society.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 7:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you really believe you have all the relevant information, then you have access to sources of information denied to almost everyone else. You have detailed information concerning the alleged threat made if the film was shown? You have access to the myriad of theater owners who had planned on showing the film? You have access to information concerning legal liability should, Heaven forbid, the worst came to fruition? You have access to the contracts between the studio and the theaters? Etc., etc., etc.

No, what you have is a personal opinion that reflects a utopian ideal. This does not mean your opinion is without merit, but only that criticizing others who apparently did not act in accordance with your opinion is not good form.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 8:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing in the law?
The infringing party would be whomever provided the copy of the code to the government from their own systems.

Yeah, but that party probably wouldn't have as much money as the government. In tort lawsuits, you don't sue the person who did you wrong...you sue the one that has the deepest pockets, right?

Besides, it may be extremely difficult figuring out what party gave the government the malware, considering the anonymity and secrecy of the process. You'd have to deal with FOIA and/or suing the agency to get the name of the party that gave the government the malware. I believe an active/ongoing legal investigation and/or national security are valid reasons to reject a FOIA request.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 8:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Of the items you list, the only one that's really relevant is the contract between theaters and studio - and we can infer enough from that by the fact that it wasn't Sony's desire to avoid showing the film.

"No, what you have is a personal opinion that reflects a utopian ideal."

A personal opinion, certainly. A utopian ideal, not even close.

"that criticizing others who apparently did not act in accordance with your opinion is not good form."

So if my opinion is that the theater operators are behaving in a cowardly fashion that is counter to the public interest, it's bad form to speak that opinion? That's an interesting perspective.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 23 Dec 2014 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Most people likely agree with what you and another commenter have said, but then again I rather doubt you or he or they have the responsibility of owning and operating a movie theater or other large public venue. I share your sentiment as well, but cannot say with any degree of certainty that if I was the one running a theater and responsible for the safety of my customers that I would have bucked the trend and shown the movie anyway.

It would appear that many theater owners disagree with you. And they do own theaters. A few examples:

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/23/7441153/alamo-drafthouse-interview
http://www.theguardian.com/ books/2014/dec/22/george-rr-martin-the-interview-sony-pictures-hack-north-korea
http://variety.com/20 14/film/news/the-interview-christmas-day-screenings-new-release-1201386144/
http://adage.com/article/ media/independent-theaters-offer-show-sony-s-interview/296407/

Of course, getting you to admit that you were full of shit will never happen, because it never does. As always, you put in enough weasel words to weasel your way out of being proven wrong, so go ahead, weasel away about how you never said what you clearly implied.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
“Obama Is Pals With Sony Executive He Said Never Called”, by Julie Bykowicz, Bloomberg, Dec 23, 2014
... Sony Pictures CEO Michael Lynton is one of the president's most reliable campaign donors, but the relationship is deeper than that: He and his wife, Jamie Alter Lynton, have visited the White House a dozen times and even vacationed with the Obamas.... Few companies, it turns out, would have been in a better position to make a phone call to the president....
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 12:31pm

Re:
So, was there any real evidence that NK was involved?

“China reluctant to join U.S. in punishing North Korea over cyberattacks”, by Simon Denyer, Washington Post, Dec 23, 2014
BEIJING — China said Tuesday that there was no proof that North Korea was behind a cyberattack on Sony Pictures Entertainment. . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Without using nuclear weapons...
“North Korea's Nukes Are Scarier Than Its Hacks”, by Josh Rogin and Eli Lake, BloombergView, Dec 23, 2014
While the world’s attention focuses on North Korea’s cyberwar with Sony, the Hermit Kingdom is rapidly increasing its stockpile of nuclear weapons material, with little real pushback from the United States.

A new analysis of North Korea’s nuclear program by a group of top U.S. experts . . .
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Socrates, 23 Dec 2014 @ 1:01pm

Election fraud
You should point your anger at the sheeple that put these idiots in office. They are the crooks.....Republicans, Democrats, all crooks...

The election fraud in USA is massive. And it have been a scam for a long time. Even the nomination elections is scams, with telepromted live results, slanting curves based on district size (to avoid a negative number of votes as result of the scam), and so on. They are not sheeple for voting stupid (though that is bad enough), they are sheeple because the entire election is just a joke.

Notice what happened when delegates from Maine discovered just how corrupt the RNC were ... nothing. And what happened when the earlier scam system produced negative votes ... nothing. And what happend when it were proved to be a systematic pattern ... nothing.

The population is played.

Much in the same way that it is played to not focus on attorney general Jim Hood and Sony/MPAA wrongdoings. It is enough to point at North Korea and they happily go brain-dead.

To take their democracy back the citizens must organize elections. Though in USA even post-polls meet resistance. So I predict the US populace do what they do best ... nothing. And perhaps pay Sony money to endure a movie so the perpetrators can have someone to laugh at.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 1:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Few companies, it turns out, would have been in a better position to make a phone call to the president.”

“Sony Pictures CEO Michael Lynton 'We did not cave' ”, CNN, Dec 21, 2014
. . . .

ZAKARIA: So the president is wrong when he says that you did not reach out to him?

LYNTON: Well, I don't - what - when he's asking about reaching out...

ZAKARIA: "I wish they had talked to me first," is the - is the...

LYNTON: Right. So we definitely spoke to senior adviser or a senior adviser in the White House to talk about the situation. The fact is, did we talk to the president himself and - and talk to him about what was happening - transpiring as the theaters started pulling back and not - and - and being unwilling to distribute the movie? No. But the White House was certainly aware of the situation.

. . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So a few theater owners have just come forward a said they would show the movie, that does not change one iota the fact that the majors have not as yet stepped up. I expect that eventually a majority of theaters will express solidarity with the notion that theaters in the US will show what they darn well please, but right now it is only a minority notion.

Now please feel free to cite in yet another invective-laden comment more articles that did not exist at the time I happened to first comment.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 1:21pm

Re:
Somehow people in Congress have got to figure out this "internet-thing".
“Top congressional Democrat asks Sony for hack details”, Reuters, Dec 23, 2014
The top Democrat on the powerful U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has asked Sony Pictures Entertainment to hand over details of what he describes as the "devastating cyberattack" recently suffered by the Hollywood studio.

In a letter sent to Sony on Tuesday . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2014 @ 1:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
... the majors have not as yet stepped up.
“Sony Pictures moves to release 'The Interview' in about-face”, by Eric Kelsey and David Brunnstrom, Reuters, Dec 23, 2014
. . . .It remained unclear how many theaters would be allowed to screen the film and if major movie chains would reverse course and join the group of authorized exhibitors. . . .
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Mike Masnick (profile), 24 Dec 2014 @ 5:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So a few theater owners have just come forward a said they would show the movie, that does not change one iota the fact that the majors have not as yet stepped up.

Tell me, did it hurt your back to move those goalposts all by yourself?

Now please feel free to cite in yet another invective-laden comment more articles that did not exist at the time I happened to first comment.

Actually, both Tim League and George RR Martin had made their comments wishing to show the movie prior to your comments, but I don't expect you to bother with facts as you dig deeper into the muck insisting that you were right when, in fact, you were wrong.

Do you ever get tired of playing this game. Just once, it would be grand for you to admit being wrong so frequently in your attempts to discredit us.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2014 @ 6:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You discredit yourself without my help by your apparent steadfast refusal to independently verify many of the assertions of fact made in articles you author. This is the danger of reliance upon hearsay.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2014 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This is the danger of reliance upon hearsay.
“Japan, wary of North Korea, works to secure infrastructure after Sony attack”, by Tim Kelly and Nobuhiro Kubo, Chicago Tribune (Reuters), Dec 24, 2014
. . . The parent company was "bolstering communication" among Chief Executive Kazuo Hirai, Sony Pictures Entertainment Chief Executive Michael Lynton, Nicole Seligman, who is president of Sony Corporation of America, and Chief Information Security Officer John Scimone, the company source said. . . .

“I say to Creighton Sahib, ‘This is not a lawsuit, that we go about to collect evidence.’ ” ——Hurree Chunder Mookerjee
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Mike Masnick (profile), 24 Dec 2014 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This is the danger of reliance upon hearsay.

Says the guy who REGULARLY makes assertions of fact that turn out to be flat out wrong. Including in this thread.

Don't make me laugh.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Dec 2014 @ 8:49am

Re:
So, was there any real evidence that NK was involved?
“Russia offers support to North Korea amid Sony hack”, by Vladimir Isachenkov, Houston Chronicle (AP), Dec 25, 2014
. . . Washington failed to offer any proof to back its claims of Pyongyang's involvement in the hacking, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said at a briefing, adding that the U.S. threats of retaliation were "counterproductive.". . .
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Dec 2014 @ 5:48am

Re: Re: Attribution
“North Korea blames the U.S. for Internet outages, calls Obama a 'monkey' ”, by Jack Kim, Reuters, Dec 27, 2014
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Rudyard Holmbast, 27 Dec 2014 @ 5:18pm

Yeah, Rogers should just be quiet, because it would just be so awful if the United States launched cyber attacks against the most brutal, evil dictatorship on the face of the Earth. Seriously, some of the bullshit that shows up on this website is just laughable.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Dec 2014 @ 1:15pm

So they supposedly want funds to go to a project, which the lion half is most assuredly going into the ability to access and most assurdly take control off of any electronical capable devices..........thats not a cyberwar project, its a damn extension of the nsa, but worded in such a way as to take advantage of a supposed fobar and redirect the fact that their actual goal is to be the biggers hackers of them all, that kinda of tech nobody should have, its fucking scary thinking about how their gonna implement it and use it, if history repeats itself.....and it always bloody does because overreach seems to be a governments bloody nature
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