Police Department Refuses To Release Use Of Force Policies Because 'Criminals Might Gain An Advantage'
from the How-To-Avoid-A-Beatin'-101 dept
Last month, dashcam video of a 23-year-old (Victoria) Texas cop throwing a 76-year-old man to the ground and tasing him emerged, leading to plenty of outrage across the web. The imagined "crime" was the lack of an inspection sticker on the vehicle the elderly man was driving. Of course, had the officer known the law, he would have known that inspection stickers aren't needed on vehicles with dealer plates -- something that could have been confirmed by anyone inside the car dealership where the incident occurred.
Here's the video:
As a side note, Scott Greenfield notes that this is a good example of why the Supreme Court's recent decision to cut law enforcement officers additional slack is a bad idea. Thanks to its Heien v. North Carolina decision, stops and searches predicated on nonexistent laws are perfectly legal, thanks to a very fluid interpretation of the word "reasonable."
Reasonable suspicion arises from the combination of an officer’s understanding of the facts and his understanding of the relevant law. The officer may be reasonably mistaken on either ground. Whether the facts turn out to be not what was thought, or the law turns out to be not what was thought, the result is the same: the facts are outside the scope of the law. There is no reason, under the text of the Fourth Amendment or our precedents, why this same result should be acceptable when reached by way of a reasonable mistake of fact, but not when reached by way of a similarly reasonable mistake of law.The young cop didn't understand the law, but he wasn't about to let a citizen who did explain it to him. So, he shoved, tased and threw the uncooperative citizen to the ground. He had no legal reason to make this stop (the law he enforced wasn't actually a law) but he was "reasonable" in his belief that every Texas vehicle should have an inspection sticker.
But is it a good idea to tase elderly men who won't immediately kowtow to someone who clearly isn't interested in hearing the "illegal" act he's getting all excited about isn't actually legal? Photography Is Not A Crime tried to find out.
[W]e figured it couldn’t take that long to read through the use of force policy, so we made a public records request, only to be told by the city’s legal department that releasing the policy “could impair an officer’s ability to arrest a suspect by placing individuals at an advantage in confrontations with police.”This rationale is deployed far too frequently in order to keep law enforcement documents locked up. PINAC points out that other police departments have released use of force policies to the public and somehow managed to still effectively enforce the law. Why not the Victoria PD? Perhaps it felt the release of the document would give the 76-year-old Pete Vasquez an unfair advantage the next time he's approached by an officer for a crime he didn't commit. Can't have the public redefining the terms of engagement by using the police officer's own terms of engagement against him.
And it's not as if though policies are followed closely or strictly enforced. Past abuses show that police officers frequently use more force than is necessary and rarely, if ever, suffer any long-term consequences for these actions.
Despite the department's stupid refusal to release the policy, it has at least manned up about the young officer's behavior.
Chief Craig has determined based on the evidence, that Officer Robinson violated three areas of policy and sustained allegations regarding violations of the following departmental policies.Now that he's been dismissed, Robinson won't be in any hurry to explain why he felt it necessary to resort to violence over a "missing" (but not really, according to the actual law) inspection tag. Is this really the sort of crime where use of force policies need to come into play, especially when the perp is four times the age of the officer? I guess we'll never know. The Victoria PD doesn't want to talk about its policies. It did the right thing by dumping a dangerous officer, but its accountability doesn't end there. If those being policed are going to develop any further understanding of the PD's use of force, they need to have access to that document. Pretending the release will help perps escape cops is a cheap dodge.
1) Policy 0.216 - Conduct and Performance, Section 2.15
2) Policy 03.03 - Use of Force Section 1
3) Policy 0.0305- Arrest without a Warrant Section 3
Based on the findings of the administrative investigation, Nathaniel Robinson’s employment with the Victoria Police Department has been terminated.
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Filed Under: police, texas, use of force
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Incompetence.
Failure to live up to the oath.
Armed assault.
Abuse of power.
WTF is going on in the US anyway? Put some of these motherfuckers in jail for 20 years for assault and I'm sure you will see an improvement in the behaviour of police officers.
Why isn't anyone bringing up the JUDGES on charges when they let these things slide?
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The old fella questioned the status quo so the young cop got tough on [imaginary] crime.
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Blocked / Censorship
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Re: Blocked / Censorship
I'm in Texas, the same state as the event took place, and the embedded video shows the same message. So you're not being singled out. The video plays find on Youtube for me, the problem is probably the rap music that can be heard playing on the policeman's car radio.
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ERROR: BVNwPD7CPR8: YouTube said: Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music from UMG, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA.
I installed the youtube unblocker addon. Works beautifully. Should've done that sooner.
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Re: Re: Blocked / Censorship
This video contains content from UMG. It is restricted from playback on certain sites. Watch on YouTube
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oh this is rich
if we publish when we will beat the crap out of you you might.
a) not go that far thus not need a beating....lol
b) gain some advatange that allows you to beat up the cop ROFL ya sure right....
ya know the morons are now in effect saying they want you not to know so they can cause more shit
they are terrorists..
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Let's follow the logic...
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Editing for accuracy
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Google it?
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Many cops would have responded even worse. For instance, if you're pulled over by a cop (even if you don't know it) and you get out of your car, most cops will immediately pull their gun or taser on you and start screaming "orders". That's what cops are trained to do (even for something as trivial as not having an inspection sticker) endangering your life in order to safeguard theirs.
This driver got a free pass when he got out of his car and did not immediately "get the treatment" and then had the nerve to refuse to bow down in submissive posture, forcing the cop to "show him who's boss". Most cops today would have acted the same way or worse. That's the way they're trained to think and act, to display "command authority" and to be in total control start to finish.
When you get pulled over, you need to remember that you are essentially 'under arrest' until the cop tells you to drive away, and any action you take without explicit orders (othen than to remain sitting still with your hands on the steering wheel) will be taken as evidence of hostile intent and therefore will be met with violence and possibly lethal force. (At least that's been my recent experience)
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Who defines "in total control" as "lashing out in unbridled panic"?
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Bad Cop.
Can you see the police running for cover when the show rolls into town?
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It's OK if a police officer doesn't know of a minor law (thanks Supreme Court) but if a citizen doesn't know EVERY law they all get piled on just to get a plea. And, now, they'll keep them locked up so you never know what is coming your way.
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Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
Law enforcement can not force people to do things, they can only arrest them using minimum force based purely upon the 'opinion' of the arresting officer. The person is brought back to the station and the senior office on station either accepts that rejects that opinion or accepts and they pass it on the the prosecutor.
The prosecutor then either rejects that opinion and forces the legal release of the person or seeks to prosecute the claimed crime.
When it goes to court and the case it legally proven then the will of the people is forced upon the person and they are punished.
Anything, absolutely anything beyond a minimum force arrest is illegal, including using weapons upon protesters, especially when they are 'less' lethal weapons.
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Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
The fact that this citizen-abusing bully was fired, while warranted, certainly does not reflect the national trend. There is a serious problem with American police and increased surveillance and laws that codify existing bad behavior will only make things worse.
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Re: Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
My experience differs. I've personally known a lot of cops over the years, and I'd say only about half of them are power-tripping jackasses. The other half are more-or-less normal human beings, with all that comes with it.
But, whether they're otherwise decent people or not, any cop that sees another cop behaving badly and doesn't raise a stink about it is a bad cop.
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Re: Re: Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
That would mean that all cops are bad cops.
Except maybe Frank Serpico, who served as prime example of the kind of retaliation a good cop can expect to receive from literally everyone else on the police force. It's not hard to see why there have been no more Serpicos to come forward in the last 4 decades since he was set up and almost died.
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Re: Re: Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
And apparently, this is the one and only "crime" that can prevent a fired cop from getting a job with another police department, anywhere, ever again.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
I could totally believe this, but it changes nothing. An ethical person would not continue working somewhere where reporting abuses gets you fired anyway. If cops are failing to work against bad cops, then they themselves are bad cops no matter what their reasons are.
However, if cops started working against bad cops and are getting fired for it on a large scale, then it would bring the whole thing into widespread public consciousness -- and the good cops would see a huge amount of support in the general public. This would likely result in widespread changes in how police departments operate.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Law Enforcment Required to Obey Laws not Policy
I sincerely hope you're not holding your breathe in anticipation of this change to occur.
In today's Do or Die Employment world, the job/income is far more important than any sense of right and wrong.
Feeding the kids and wife, buying the latest greatest toys and paying the bills is priority one, while being a good cop and hoping that the public/system will help you keep your job after you cross the Blue Line, is not even a choice on the table.
And since any good cop would want to keep as low a profile as possible, there is no way for one good cop to know another good cop, by sight or reputation, so the idea of "gathering" is not even possible.
But the reality of this situation is far worse, because a bad police force attracts bad people and repels good people and it is highly unlikely that any good people would remain an employee of any American Police Force for very long, and I assume there will always be some good people who are foolish or idealistic enough to join anyways.
But the bad cops will feel unsafe around any good cop and find ways of ridding themselves of such an annoyance quickly, and since the entire system is corrupt, it would be easy for the bad cops to do this because the administration would want the same thing and willingly aid the bad cops in the process of rooting out and eliminating any such threats.
I think police states have to run their full course, and self destruct as they destroy the civilization in which they exist, before things can be fixed, since the police are directly between the people and the social problems that need to be fixed and the police are themselves one of the biggest of these social problems and they have no desire to be fixed as long as they can make extra cash through corruption.
As always, I hope I am wrong.
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Easy to explain
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training
These plates are different color and Stand out for a reason.
Can we Sue the training company? or is this State controlled also..then Sue the state.
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Only Fired?
Yeah, right.
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so maybe rap music DOES cause violence
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Terminated only
Shouldn't there be a discharge system like in the military and not just paid leave, voluntary let go or retired because of reasons.
I guess it wouldn't hinder the blue brotherhood from hiring dishonorable discharged ones but it would be slightly more obvious and shameful.
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Know the law
Who knew!
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Yet another municipality to pay a high price
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So ignorance is no excuse to breaking the law if you're not part of the privileged. If you are then your ignorance is an excuse.
Imagine if I went around breaking laws and claiming ignorance how far that will get me.
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March
http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/06/dmv-prepares-for-sticker-shock-of-losing-inspectio n-tag/#23504101=0
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Re: March
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It would appear that the officer was punished under a set of laws not available to the public. How do we know we're not violating the laws that were applied against this officer? Or do you admit that this is a separate set of laws that applies only to officers from the set of laws that apply to we the people?
Do these special officer laws grant special rights and privileges? Do these special laws for officers require officers to do things like shoot black men and beat or taze everyone else that doesn't obey them, or do they merely permit it? How can we know?
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Ignorance of the law is an excuse?
So a cop can stop you for a nonexistent law, rough you up and then say oh-well and all is good? But if Joe Citizen does something he doesn't know is a crime the book can be thrown at him?
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