CIA Boss Claims That Merely Debating Surveillance Is Helping The Terrorists

from the why-do-we-let-such-people-retain-positions-of-power dept

Mon, Jun 1st 2015 8:50am — Mike Masnick

Yesterday morning, prior to the Senate debate that has resulted in the (brief) expiration of a few provisions in the PATRIOT Act, CIA director John Brennan went on one of those Sunday morning talk shows and made a complete fool of himself, pretending that merely debating things like the 4th Amendment was helping the terrorists. It started off with a claim that various bad people are "watching carefully" what happens, as if anyone honestly believes that terrorists are looking at last night's vote and thinking, "Oh boy, now we can plan a new bombing campaign by calling America again!"

“I think terrorist elements have watched very carefully what has happened here in the United States,” Director John Brennan said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

And, from there, he argues that any debate about this is bad for America, saying that we "can't afford to deal with" such a debate right now.

Whether or not it’s disclosures of classified information, or whether it’s changes in the law and policies, they’re looking for the seams to operate within,” he added. “This is something that we can’t afford to deal with right now, because if you look at the horrific terrorist attacks and violence that’s being perpetrated around the globe, we need to keep our country safe.”

So, when can we deal with these things? Because, sorry, but I thought a core principle of our democratic nation was supposed to be that we could have these kinds of debates openly, and that we didn't have secret law, with the intelligence community purposely reinterpreting laws to mean things that their plain language clearly do not allow. And, yes, the PATRIOT Act was passed in the wake of 9/11, but we put sunset provisions in there on purpose so that the eventual debate could happen.

But it never seems to happen. Each time the previous sunsets have come up, Congress has avoided debate and waited until the last minute before just extending it. And, so this time, after two years of very public debate -- thanks to Ed Snowden -- Brennan now wants to claim that we can't afford "to deal with this right now"?

The whole "we need to keep our country safe" line is a bunch of hogwash as well. Remember, that the key program that expired last night, the one (very likely illegally) based on Section 215, has not been shown to have been critical in stopping a single domestic terrorist attack. In nearly 15 years. I think it's not unreasonable to say that we can have some debate on whether or not it's necessary. And also whether or not it violates the Constitution.

Why would a sitting CIA director be so worried about having such a debate? Why would a sitting CIA director not be willing to discuss what he and his colleagues are doing? Yes, obviously, operational details can and should be classified. But that's not what's being debated. The question is whether or not the intelligence community should have access to everyone's phone records without a warrant.

“The tools that the government has used over the last dozen year to keep this country safe are integral to making sure were able to stop terrorist attacks,” Brennan said.

Except we know that's a lie, because everyone has confirmed that the program has not been useful.

Lying about it just raises more questions. Why does Brennan want this program so badly? What is he and the CIA doing with it?

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Filed Under: cia, debate, john brennnan, patriot act, section 215, surveillance

50 Comments

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Violynne (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 8:58am

The only one helping the terrorists are the CIA themselves. If they had just stayed the fuck out of the area in the 70s, none of this would have been an issue today.

The only thing the CIA knows how to do well is mess everything up.
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AnonCow, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:08am

Freedom of speech is a terrorist tool!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:09am

Ok, since no one else is going to say it, I will. The intelligence communities don't want to give up their ability to snoop because it's the source of information they use to blackmail people in power in order to leverage that power for themselves.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:11am

One wonders if the definition of useful is more focused on creating a new revolving door to make sure they have lucrative private sector jobs when then leave public service.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:18am

Every time I read one of these, I think it's part of Senator Palpatine's plot to become emperor. Do you think maybe George Lucas is behind all of this?
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DannyB (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:18am

If only we had A Dear Leader
If only Our Dear Leader could tell us what we are supposed to think, then there wouldn't need to be any debate about surveillance. And using the surveillance, the Dear Leader could suppress any debate by sending debaters to a re-education camp for right thinking.
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DannyB (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:21am

Re:
Don't forget other terror tools in every terrorist's toolkit:
* freedom of expression
* freedom of assembly
* freedom to move across borders
* freedom from unreasonable search and seizure

What a bunch of terrorist supporters our founding fathers were. /sarc
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DigDug, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:31am

Dumbshits @ Executive Branch - Wake the frak up!!!
As long as you have this mindset, the Terrorists Win!

See, the problem a lot of the extremist muslims have with the United States is all of our Freedoms.

After 9/11, even though the Constitution and its' amendments didn't change, the Executive branch of the government chose to pretend that they did.

That means that the Terrorists are winning this war.

Until all of the sweeping scanning, storing, sifting, sorting of every packet of all information is stopped, the Terrorists win.

That means that the entire Executive branch is aiding and abetting the Terrorists plan, which makes them all traitors committing acts of Treason against the United States of America.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:34am

Wow! Seriously? The CIA has a serious problem with the First Amendment. I thought this was the United States, not Nazi Germany.
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John Fenderson (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:40am

Re:
The CIA is one of the several government institutions that overtly hates the ideals and principles of the US.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:44am

Re:
There is that old joke:
Q: What is the difference between the CIA and a Sunday school picknick?
A: Adult supervision.

And what he is saying sounds awfully like "We do not need any adult supervision".
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Ambrellite, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:45am

Bureaucratic stupidity
It's reasonable to assume that the intelligence community has adopted it's "collect-it-all" mentality for purely bureaucratic reasons. It inflates their budget, has a lot of non-terrorism-related usefulness to the government (so long as the DOJ is on board with the necessary felonies), and is very useful for politicians as a political football. National security isn't much of a consideration (as the unending demands for backdoors illustrate).

The only problem here, as far as they're concerned, is public awareness and opposition, which threatens the whole enterprise.
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J, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:49am

I wonder if the CIA has secretly redefined "terrorists" to include any American citizen who has no desire to simply surrender their inalienable rights?

Any American who joined the service and made sacrifices (physical and mental) because they were fighting to preserve and protect US Constitution, should view John Brennan as nothing less than an enemy of the state, who wants to make those sacrifices mean as little as possible.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:51am

Re: Re:
Um yea no, you don't need the sarcasm...

the founding fathers would indeed be classified as terrorists... and that is sadly not even close to being a joke!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:53am

Re:
This is the nature of secretive intelligence agencies.

By this mechanism a silent coup very well could come to the USA.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:56am

“This is something that we can’t afford to deal with right now..."

We've had 14 years to debate it. Time's up.
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:09am

If this isn't something we can afford to debate right now, when can we debate it? I highly doubt terrorist tactics will ever straight-up vanish, they're far too effective for that. If terrorism will never go away, does that mean we can never afford to debate this? That's not what America is built on; just shutting up and doing what the government says.
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um, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:11am

Re: Re:
What! Again?
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John Fenderson (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:20am

Re:
"I wonder if the CIA has secretly redefined "terrorists" to include any American citizen who has no desire to simply surrender their inalienable rights"

I don't think they made a secret of that.
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David, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:39am

Re: Dumbshits @ Executive Branch - Wake the frak up!!!
See, the problem a lot of the extremist muslims have with the United States is all of our Freedoms.

More of them have a problem with the U.S. raining death and destruction from the skies on their friends and neighbors and occupying their countries under pretenses whenever U.S. access to their natural resources is hampered by governments with too little affinity to the U.S. dollar.

It's no accident that the U.S. has humongous trade deficits as it forces other countries to hand over their goods in return for dollar vouchers that are not really good for buying greatly interesting things in the U.S.
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dfed (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:41am

Obviously the problem is that freedom is helping the terrorists.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:41am

Still waiting for them to explain whats the difference between "those" terrorists and the CIA...
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:43am

Re: Re:
They only hate them when we expect them to be held to those ideals and principles.
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DannyB (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:52am

Re:
> they use to blackmail people in power in order
> to leverage that power for themselves

I would assume the CIA is smart enough to use their capability for economic advantage as well. Information is power.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:56am

Re: Dumbshits @ Executive Branch - Wake the frak up!!!
"extremist muslims"

There are lots of extremists ... what about the extremist christians, other religions or non-religious?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 10:58am

John Ashcroft said the same thing when promoting the USA 'Patriot' Act to Congress back in October 2001.

The sad thing is, he's probably the most reasonable AG we've had since then, too.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:06am

Re:
And that is how democracy falls apart.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:34am

In the quoted paragraph, I didn't take "this is something we can't afford to deal with" to mean the debate itself. So I watched the video, and it seems pretty clear he's talking about the sunsetting provisions, not the debate. Everything he says is a lie, but the point of this article appears simply incorrect. No need to distort his words, he hangs himself without any assistance.
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That One Guy (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:49am

Re:
Funding and shiny badges.
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MadAsASnake (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:55am

The point about democracy and rule of law is that right now is always the best time to discuss these matters. If it's not, we need a better system Having people like Brennan dictate to us is not it
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 12:11pm

Re:By this mechanism a silent coup very well could come to the USA
--OR--
Has it already....?
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DannyB (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 12:14pm

Re: If only we had A Dear Leader
What? The Dear Leader idea for the US gets no love?

I would point out that police states have always had remarkably low crime, including terrorism.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 12:14pm

Remember folks, drill it in your mind as intended

All together

Booo-gey..........man

Do as i say so i can fix this situation im half to blame for, but refuse to admit to it

Your turn, their turn, your turn, their turn........till your worse then eachother
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re: If only we had A Dear Leader
Only because those in powers are the terrorists, and it does not matter how much violence they use against those that they rule, they have not committed a crime because power makes their actions legal.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 12:46pm

Brennan is running scared atm, because as more info comes out, the people he's had assassinated to reach his current position may eventually leak out too......
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2015 @ 1:04pm

IN answer to the subtitle:
Because 9/11 rhetoric!
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Coyne Tibbets (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 1:34pm

Obvious
Debate leads to thought.
Thought leads to concern.
Concern leads to action.
Action leads to law.
Law leads to privacy.
Privacy leads to secrets.
Secrets lead to terrorism.
Terrorism leads to destruction.
Destruction leads to ruination.

Come on, it's completely obvious: even one tiny little debate is just too dangerous! Must not have!
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Joe K, 1 Jun 2015 @ 4:22pm

Re: Re:
…and, maybe, good insurance against facing war crimes charges.
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Winski (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 4:45pm

CIA Klown Barker
WHY does anyone quote or print ANYTHING Brennen says, thinks or does ?? The man is a lying piece of street garbage that should be headed for a landfill. USELESS !!!
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FMGary (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 6:06pm

Re:
Very insightful AC, blackmail and crush the competing political party. We will all become part of this new socialist country when we have all given up the will to grow. When we stop striding for growth is when we give in and accept socialist ways of the government. The socialist ways equals pure power for them.
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DigDug, 1 Jun 2015 @ 6:51pm

Re: Re: Dumbshits @ Executive Branch - Wake the frak up!!!
Do you see modern extremist christians wholesale slaughtering people because they dared to let women have an education?

What was that? No? Really? Ahh, so you were just blathering to be blathering rather than adding anything productive to the conversation.
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DaveK (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 9:54pm

It's not just the First Amendment.
Wow! Seriously? The CIA has a serious problem with the First Amendment.
DUDE! The CIA has a problem with democracy.

John Brennan did not "[make] a complete fool of himself". He let the mask slip. He has the mindset of a totalitarian - and he is seeking the tools and power to implement his vision of how things should be run.
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Padpaw (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:13pm

It no longer depresses me that the people in charge of security for America would be more at home in a totalitarian regime than the land of the free.
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Padpaw (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:26pm

Re:
If only that was true. Then we would have jedi to come to our defense
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Padpaw (profile), 1 Jun 2015 @ 11:29pm

Re:
you should take a look at what makes a person a terrorist from the DHS.

It is a rather funny list as it would make 90% of Americans terrorists if they ever followed through with arresting people based on it
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jun 2015 @ 4:50am

Oh, i instinctivly read "Face the nation" as "Fear the nation" and i guess i wasn't too far off.
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Pragmatic, 2 Jun 2015 @ 6:06am

Re: Re:
Look up the word "socialist."
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jun 2015 @ 7:39am

Just another in a long line of assholes, pushing propaganda, in order to keep control of the people...
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Theo2, 2 Jun 2015 @ 8:24am

Re: Re: Re: Dumbshits @ Executive Branch - Wake the frak up!!!
I love how many qualifiers you put in your "test" case.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Jun 2015 @ 6:57am

He's right!
I refuse to debate surveillance, as much as I refuse to debate slavery or torture. Some things we can't "debate", some things just have to stop.
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