Jeb Bush Claims That Creating Encryption Harms America

from the wanna-try-that-one-again? dept

Thu, Aug 20th 2015 7:00am — Mike Masnick

Sometimes you have to wonder if the various political candidates are trying to lose the knowledgeable techie vote. Chris Christie has been strongly pro-surveillance, and it's not hard to guess where he would come down on the whole "backdooring encryption" debate. However, few of the other candidates have been directly asked about that -- though that may be changing. Jeb Bush has now stated that he's against encryption, because, apparently it harms America.

“If you create encryption, it makes it harder for the American government to do its job—while protecting civil liberties—to make sure that evildoers aren’t in our midst,” Bush said in South Carolina at an event sponsored by Americans for Peace, Prosperity, and Security, a group with close ties to military contractors.

Bush said “we need to find a new arrangement with Silicon Valley in this regard because I think this is a very dangerous kind of situation.”

This is, of course, mostly deeply wrong, while also partially right, but for the wrong reasons. First of all, if we want Americans to be safer we should be demanding more encryption, not less. It is a confused state of mind that, just as we keep hearing about more and more data being leaked and hacked into whether by individual malicious hackers or, potentially, nation states, thinks the "answer" to this is somehow less security, rather than more.

However, in a weird way, Bush is actually correct. In some instances, encryption actually does make the government's job harder. But that's a feature, not a bug. Bush should, perhaps, listen to his brother's former Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff who recently came out against backdooring encryption, noting:

... we do not historically organize our society to make it maximally easy for law enforcement, even with court orders, to get information. We often make trade-offs and we make it more difficult. If that were not the case then why wouldn’t the government simply say all of these [takes out phone] have to be configured so they’re constantly recording everything that we say and do and then when you get a court order it gets turned over and we wind up convicting ourselves. So I don’t think socially we do that.

This is an important point that Jeb Bush (and many folks in favor of backdooring encryption) don't seem to get.

Separately, from Bush's quote, it appears he's not even familiar with the details of the debate (not that this stops him from opining ignorantly about it). By saying that merely "making" encryption is bad for America, he's just wrong. The debate isn't about making encryption. It's about whether or not encryption should be (or, realistically, can be) compromised via some sort of backdoor. Experts have explained why this actually makes us all worse off, but it's rather disturbing that people like Jeb Bush have summarized the "we should backdoor encyrption" side of things as "we should be against encryption."

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Filed Under: cybersecurity, encryption, going dark, jeb bush, privacy

86 Comments

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Tom Czerniawski, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:07am

My god...
This guy's a bigger cerebral cabbage than even Dubya.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:11am

He's either ignorant or he's corrupt.

Either way, he's lost any chance at a vote from me (not that he had one to begin with).
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:12am

He actually said evildoers?
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SteveMB (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:14am

Re:
He's either ignorant or he's corrupt.

I'll take "Both Of The Above" for $1000.
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limbodog (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:14am

Re: My god...
I actually think he's the smarter of the two. But this is saying to Homeland Security guys "I'm on your side!"
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:14am

Personally, when he says "If you create encryption" I can't help but wonder if he understands encryption is something that already exists in fairly widespread use, not some proposal that would need to be "created".
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:19am

Re: Re:
I guess technically he can be both.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:20am

Re:
"Stop making all this math guys!"
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DannyB (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:22am

Re:
I think the Bush brothers learned the 'evildoers' phrase early in life when the freshly made cookies and the cookie jar were to be off limits unless permission had been given to have a cookie.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:26am

Did I read this correctly?
“If you create encryption, it makes it harder for the American government to do its job—while protecting civil liberties—to make sure that evildoers aren’t in our midst"
Is he saying that NOT having encryption is necessary for depending civil liberties?! If so this is a deeply Orwellian statement full of doublethink. Encryption allows you to positively assert your civil liberties beyond the passive protections of the law.
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David, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:29am

Wrong of course
"If you create encryption, it makes it harder for the American government to do its job"

The job description of the U.S. government is spelled out in the constitution. Breaking the Fourth Amendment is explicitly an automatic "Fail". It's the reason Nixon would have gotten impeached and removed from office if he hadn't resigned before that.

In contrast to that, "to make sure that evildoers aren’t in our midst" is not in the Constitution. Which is not much of a surprise because the Constitution has been written for adults.

Also the whole discussion of whether or not more or less encryption is making the U.S. safer or not is moot.

The government has demonstrated beyond all doubt that it is neither willing nor able to keep its workers from violating the Constitution systematically and premeditatedly.

In that situation, there is just no alternative for its populace to arm itself in sufficient degree against a power-hungry reckless government. Encryption is a purely defensive weapon, so it should be quite less controversial than the offensive weapons permitted by the 2nd amendment as a measure intended to keep the government sane.
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DannyB (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:31am

Which harms America more?
Which harms America more? Which of the following things have larger negative effects on ordinary Americans' every day lives?
* encryption
* bank safes
* the war on (some) drugs
* militarized police
* police brutality
* concentrated control and ownership of major news media
* corrupt politicians and corrupt government
* corporate lobbying (eg bribery)
* the great economic divide
* Windows 10
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:34am

"evildoers"?
So it appears this guy would expect his foreign policy briefing in comic book form just like his brother.
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DannyB (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:37am

Re: Wrong of course
The government has demonstrated beyond all doubt that it is neither willing nor able to keep its workers from violating the Constitution systematically and premeditatedly.
The government has demonstrated beyond all doubt that it is working hard to ensure its workers can violate the Constitution systematically and premeditatedly. And with impunity.
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DannyB (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:39am

Re: "evildoers"?
What problem do you have with this?

The figures can be drawn to make the evildoers obvious and easy to distinguish from the good guys*.

* the rich, white, fat, old, crooked, hetrosexual males who run things
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:42am

If it makes my sponsors (mil. contractors) happy, just give 'em what they want!
It's either that or he's a bigger numbskull than his brother...I fear it's the last.
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David, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:42am

Re: "evildoers"?
Do you really for one moment think that he would want to be briefed? comic form or not, that would require understanding something. He'll just want to get handed the orders to sign. And let's hope he remembers the spelling of his name.
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John Fenderson (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:44am

Re:
I like the term "evildoers" because it seamlessly includes many government and corporate entities.
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MikeW_CA (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:48am

Re:
It's not either-or. Like most politicians, he's probably both.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:50am

Re:
Definitely BOTH, his own actions make it clear and his words back it up!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:55am

Re: Which harms America more?
Umm, wait. I think I should know this. I just need a second. Ummm. I think it should be donuts but I'm not sure. Is it like, being overweight or something, isn't that it? That's like, you know, harmful. Isn't it?

Can I, like, can I phone a friend?
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MikeW_CA (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:55am

Easy for him to say.
I suppose Jeb Bush has servants to do his online shopping and accountants to do his banking for him.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:04am

Re: My god...
Probably part of why the latest polls have him sinking down to single digits of support.

It's almost like he's purposely trying to run a bad campaign with bad ideas.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:15am

Some of these candidates remind me of that beauty queen pageant contestant who experienced difficulty spewing the rehearsed talking points she had been given.

"some people out there in our nation don't have maps"
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:15am

When Curtains Block Justice
https://medium.com/@sweis/when-curtains-block-justice-142cbd0f3f34

Inspired by “When Phone Encryption Blocks Justice”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/opinion/apple-google-when-phone-encryption-blocks-justic e.html
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David, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:17am

Re: Easy for him to say.
And a pet rock to do his thinking for him.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:18am

'Jeb Bush Claims That Creating Encryption Harms America'

if that's the case, why does America insist on having everything encrypted except what ordinary people do, say, read, and write? they have a right to privacy and freedom of speech etc, and the American Government is doing what it can to destroy that!
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Baron von Robber, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:19am

Re: When Curtains Block Justice
Oh poor detectives. You mean they need to do actual detective work?

Who will think of the doughnuts?!
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Baron von Robber, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:23am

Re: Re: When Curtains Block Justice
"When Curtains Block Justice" or also known as
"When Detectives Whine That They Can't Be Lazy or Fuck Your Privacy"
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ThatFatMan (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:26am

They want it both ways.
Of course our government wants us to believe that strong encryption would be devastating to life. They can't protect us from terrorists, other nations or ourselves without it.

But, they don't want it to apply to them either. They wouldn't stop using encryption or give other countries a back door so that they can spy on America. Imagine the laughter if a Russian Diplomat stopped by and said, do you mind building us a back door to your military encryption, we promise not to use it very much and only with a warrant, it'll be completely safe. Even though it's essentially the same line of bullshit they try to cram down our throats, they wouldn't give in to the demand either, so why should we?

Maybe, if they wanted to have a real conversation, they could explain why it's vital for them to have encryption for the things THEY don't want others to know, but I am supposed to give up my right to keep things confidential from the spying eyes of other countries, or even my own. But they cant do that, because it will never fit in with their narrative of having to have control over everyone and everything while they enjoy the same privileges we are supposed to give up.

So, when they are ready and willing to put their money where their mouths are, and give up encryption too, I'll be ready and willing to side with them and support the anti-encryption cause for the good of kidnapped children everywhere.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:34am

Just imagine...
Try and sit for a while and imagine a world in which everything was sent and stored in plain text. If encryption was outlawed tomorrow, how fast would the world collapse? A week?
People who are trying to be, or are, in charge are proudly ignorant of all this "geek stuff" like email, files, encryption and such. They spew out stuff in the media for all to see and hear, that they NEVER uses any email or don't know how to operate a computer with something akin to glee. All the while ignoring the simple truth that IT should be very high on the knowledge front because it is quite seriously holding the world together.
They drag on and on about the threat of terror, while if it were up to them, they could ruin all of society in a day.
How proud we can be of them. Good job guys!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:34am

Mom should have swallowed, Is this whole family completely insane and stupid? What the fuck is the IQ required to run for president, 2?
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:39am

The Bush dynasty definitely knows what harms America, considering they're the experts in that department.
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Roc Rizzo, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:41am

Re: Which harms America more?
In order of importance:
1) legal bribery (corporate lobbying)
2) Money in politics
3) concentrated control/ownership of most mass media sources
4) A corrupt SYSTEM (many politicians and government thought to be corrupt are merely following the laws that they create, so they are not corrupt, but the system is)
5) Militarized/brutal police who go unchecked. (civilian review boards could combat this)
6) Economic injustice (There is only one thing that trickles down, and it ain't money!)
7) Unregulated neo-liberal capitalism.
8) Lack of education.
9) Lack of concern for our environment (There is no Plan(et) B)
10) Android
11) Windoze (whatever version of the day it is)
12) OSX
13) iOS
14) Linux
15) the internet of things
16) "i" or "e" anything.
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RocRizzo, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:43am

Re: "evildoers"?
Not comic book form, coloring book form.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:45am

Re:
Yes, I think our current president proves that.
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Sheogorath (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:47am

Googling Jeb Bush, I found out that he's the younger brother of the previous President of the United States. Why doesn't that surprise me? The only thing that could cause me greater surprise (and not much at that) is if it was discovered that Jeb was actually his mother's lovechild by an underage George Dubya (five is possible with precocious puberty).
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connermac725 (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:01am

Foreign Threats
"the true threat to freedom will come in the guise of a foreign threat"
Thomas Jefferson
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Uriel-238 (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:12am

"—while protecting civil liberties—"
What a reassuring afterthought!
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Berenerd (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:30am

Yes, encryption is a horrible idea. I mean, how else can I get into all the files at the pentagon? Remove encryption on government files and I will happily remove encryption of my files.
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FM Hilton, 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:32am

No encryption is bad
I wonder if Jeb Bush actually reads the papers once in a while...because if he had, he'd have read where hackers got a shit-ton of data from the IRS, the government's personnel agency, and a few other places...all of which seems to have been not encrypted.

I bet some of those people affected would rather have the inconvenience of it than the sure knowledge that their personal stuff is in the hands of real 'evil-doers', who laugh at our feeble attempts to stop them.
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Berenerd (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:32am

Re: Re:
"Yes, I think the politicians in office no a days have proven that."

FTFY
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tqk (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:40am

Aii, yi yi!

"If you create encryption, it makes it harder for the American government to do its job—while protecting civil liberties—to make sure that evildoers aren’t in our midst," ...

Bush said "we need to find a new arrangement with Silicon Valley in this regard because I think this is a very dangerous kind of situation."

This is, of course, mostly deeply wrong, while also partially right, but for the wrong reasons.

I believe you're giving him far too much credit here. He obviously (to me, at least) hasn't any clue whatsoever what he's talking about. He's just (poorly it seems; can't even do this right) spouting talking points his handlers have told him to say. There is no evidence of actual comprehension of the ideas he's being told to say.

This is starting to explain a lot for me; how their father managed to head the CIA (a horribly disfunctional agency populated by kindergartner crack addict intellects), then get elected president, then freak out when the USSR threatened to collapse, then when The Shrub took the presidency, then in spite of all that Jeb somehow manages to look like a viable candidate for the presidency.

The US is nuts, and that family is missing some chromosomes, and it's showing more and more as you go further forward. If Jeb has any children, they might be happier in the primate exhibit at the Zoo. Sorry kids, you was robbed!

On the bright side, we don't need to care about Global Warming anymore. The US' electoral system is well on its way to destroying the world, likely in our lifetime.
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nasch (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:42am

Re:
What the fuck is the IQ required to run for president, 2?

You've probably noticed - there is no intelligence or competence (or morality) requirement. Just age and natural citizenship.
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mcinsand, 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:44am

'...while protecting civil liberties...'
Privacy is a civil liberty and it is not possible without encryption. Encryption, especially in this digital age, is necessary for us to maintain safety, to make sure that 'evildoers' have a harder time knowing when we will be where. From what I can see, the political left and right are scarily agreeing to more and more and, if they were to call a constitutional convention, imagining wiping away the 4th amendment isn't too difficult in today's climate. We'd have Graham and Feinstein holding hands as our protections from an overlord government disappear.
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Ninja (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:52am

Re: Re:
I'd say this case is more about ignorance than corruption. Whereas when considering those INSIDE the government it's more corruption and possibly a topping of totalitarianism than ignorance. Still both can walk side by side at times.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:57am

Lost my vote
I am 100% certian I'm not voting for Jeb Bush based on that single comment.
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Ninja (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:08am

Re: Re:
Fry bacon in your machine guns...

Wrong candidate or are they all smart like this?
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Ninja (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:09am

Re: Which harms America more?
Humans?
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Ninja (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:15am

Re: Lost my vote
Well, you can choose from a quite awesome array of candidates:

- Crazy ass, filthy rich, racist
- Crazy ass, rich, somewhat racist, fries bacon in his guns
- Crazy ass, rich, uses gmail or something for Govt issues, has issues with Monicas
- Crazy ass, rich, ignorant, at least likes latinos
- Etc

All of them come with handy surveillance state and totalitarianism extras for your despair.
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nasch (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:27am

Re: Re: Re:
Fry bacon in your machine guns...

Wrong candidate or are they all smart like this?

That was Cruz.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
And No some of them are Dumber.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:44am

Son of a spy, brother of a spy
You were expecting something other than a spy?
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:02am

Re: Re:
Just the Prez?
Congress is disturbed by your lack of vision.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:04am

Re: Foreign Threats
I just knew it!!
We need the great wall 'o Trump now more than evar.
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Another Anonymous, 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:18am

A Charitable Interpretation of Bush's Reasoning

, but it's rather disturbing that people like Jeb Bush have summarized the "we should backdoor encyrption" side of things as "we should be against encryption."

It's theoretically possible that he realizes that any backdoor makes encryption mostly futile.

Rather than see people entrust their personal affairs to sabotaged encryption, he could instead be against any encryption being further developed.

Therefore, saying "we should backdoor encryption" can be reduced to "we should be against encryption." This assumes we all already agree with the first statement.

See, with enough contortions, it is possible to make even a confused politician's statement make some sense.
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Personanongrata, 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:23am

Asspincter Says What?
Jeb Bush is a bought and paid for know-nothing idiot.

Snowden and Manning 2016
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TDR, 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:25am

Candidate lineup
The Presidential candidate lineup looks like it could be the cast from "Dumb and Dumber 3: Dumb & Dumbererer." And Jebbie seems one of the worst. The last thing we need is another Bush in any kind of political office.
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nasch (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:33am

Re: A Charitable Interpretation of Bush's Reasoning
Rather than see people entrust their personal affairs to sabotaged encryption, he could instead be against any encryption being further developed.

Waaaaaayyyy too charitable. :-)
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David, 20 Aug 2015 @ 12:33pm

Re:
Mom should have swallowed, Is this whole family completely insane and stupid?

Actually she did. You are seeing the effect on brain development the substitution of an ulcer for a placenta has.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 12:59pm

We should have backdoor encryption
Fixed it for you.
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Digitari, 20 Aug 2015 @ 1:07pm

USG doesn't need encryption...
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Digitari, 20 Aug 2015 @ 1:07pm

USG doesn't need encryption...
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Digitari, 20 Aug 2015 @ 1:10pm

USG doesn't need encryption...
(oops cat stepped on the keyboard, 2nd try)

It already HAS classification, why encrypt corruption when you can just classify it as "confidential", "secret" or "top secret" that way if you DO find it you STILL go to jail...
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Guardian, 20 Aug 2015 @ 1:43pm

this is really gonna hurt then
sdkjfhdskjfhdskjfhdskjfhsdjf7655454hegawhja4jus76634hjashd

man that must be painful
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tqk (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 2:11pm

Re: Asspincter Says What?
Snowden and Manning 2016

You should be careful with that. Manning's convicted and Snowden's accused of treason. You could be accused of aiding and giving comfort to foreign enemies. And, now you've written it you're recorded in the NSA's database.

Argentina has few if any immigration laws, fwiw.
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Personanongrat, 20 Aug 2015 @ 3:54pm

Re: Re: Asspincter Says What?
Come and get me.
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Mark Wing, 20 Aug 2015 @ 3:59pm

But he said "while protecting civil liberties" so clearly he's all about that. He just wants to break all forms of secure communication, such as online banking, so he can help protect our civil liberties. Give the guy a chance.
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Coyne Tibbets (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 5:38pm

FTFY
[...] it appears he's [Bush is] not even familiar with the details of any debate [...]
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Atkray (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 6:50pm

Re: Just imagine...
Maybe it is the grand plan to bring the USPS back into relevance.
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Sheogorath (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 7:34pm

Re:
If your comment wasn't so clearly sarcastic, I'd have been reporting it for sheer empty-headedness. Well done on emulating the Bush family!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Aug 2015 @ 8:09pm

Every time I hear that another Bush is running for office I cringe. I also cringe when I hear another Clinton is running for office.

Give another blood line a chance to wear the crown.
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Sheogorath (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 9:29pm

Re:
The US did, and now people are bitching about Barack Obama and claiming he's not American. They're lucky, Mel Gibson is eligible to run for president. *shudders*
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David, 20 Aug 2015 @ 10:45pm

Re: Re:
Well, so far there has been no American blood running in the veins of a U.S. presidents. All Europeans before Obama.

I think that American blood would still be too audacious.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 20 Aug 2015 @ 11:20pm

An American Indian president.
Actually I'd like to see that.

Right now I'd settle for someone who wasn't in the pocket of blue-chip corporations.
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Seegras (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 5:22am

Re: Candidate lineup
Here's where it's going http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
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Seegras (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 5:25am

Re: Re:
What other science does he claim "harms America"?
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tqk (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 6:29am

Re: Re: Re:
Well, so far there has been no American blood running in the veins of a U.S. presidents. All Europeans before Obama.

If you're going to claim they're not American, then they're not European either. They're all African. Lets all meet back at Olduvai Gorge for a class reunion, and strand all the racists there when we go back home. They can try again.
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tqk (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 7:08am

Re: Re: Re:
What other science does he claim "harms America"?

Considering he's Texan, I expect he has it in for Evolution and Global Warming for sure.
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John Fenderson (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 8:13am

Re: Re: Re:
What does this even mean? What is "American blood" and why is its presence or absence an issue?

Last I checked, the closest requirement for being President is that you are a natural born citizen. Ancestry is irrelevant.
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nasch (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 8:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
What is "American blood" and why is its presence or absence an issue?

For the first question, he means Native American. For the second, I don't know, though it would be very interesting to have a high profile Native American candidate for President. tqk's response was right on though: "If you're going to claim they're not American, then they're not European either."
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John Fenderson (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 9:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ahh, I didn't catch that he was talking about the continent rather than the nation.
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nasch (profile), 21 Aug 2015 @ 10:43am

Re: Re:
They're lucky, Mel Gibson is eligible to run for president. *shudders*

Isn't he Australian? You have to be a natural-born US citizen to be President.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2015 @ 11:09am

Re: Asspincter Says What?
Snowden/Manning probably COULD get on a state ballet, if you consider how many signatures went on the clemency petition at whitehouse.gov.

How beautiful an act of protest that would be. Hell, it isn't like they don't have the free time.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Aug 2015 @ 3:43pm

Guys, please don't vote in another Bush.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2015 @ 9:35am

"“If you create encryption, it makes it harder for the American government to do its job—while protecting civil liberties...""

How do you say this without breaking into laughter, eat a shit sandwich first?
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