Jim Jefferies 'Official' Clip Of His 'Gun Control' Routine Taken Down Thanks To Copyright
from the well-that's-great dept
As you may have heard, yesterday there was another mass shooting in the US. I know the topic of mass shootings and gun control and all that raise all sorts of emotions and opinions on all sides of the issue, but this is not the place to discuss them. I'm posting this for a reason that actually does fit into Techdirt's discussion area, and I hope that the conversation stays more closely aligned to the topic of copyright. What's copyright got to do with all of this? Well, after reading some of the news about what happened, I went in search of comedian Jim Jeffries' routine about guns. I'm a big fan of Jeffries, who is damn funny, and I recalled seeing that he did a great routine about guns and gun control in the past. And it seemed timely. So I did a search... and discovered that the video had been taken down. At first, I figured that it must be because someone ripped it and therefore, okay, I can understand it being taken down. But, no, this is the "official" clip uploaded by Jeffries himself. And apparently Netflix did the takedown (probably via ContentID, rather than a DMCA notice):To me, that seems like a broken system.
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Filed Under: copyright, gun control, jim jeffries, takedown, video
Companies: netflix
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We may not love lawyers, but sometimes we need them
While no one wants to live a lawyered-up life, both examples show that commercial ventures, from cookies to comedy, really need to be scrutinized by a legal mind, and all the "feels wrong" trade-offs evaluated. Every entry into the world of commerce is a plunge into the shark tank, and once you put pen to paper at the bottom of a contract... any contract... you lose the right to the poor-me position.
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Re: We may not love lawyers, but sometimes we need them
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Re: We may not love lawyers, but sometimes we need them
Excuse me?
We kill pirates.
I'm not a pirate. It so happens I am a lawyer.
Kill the lawyer!
I'm not that kind of lawyer
--Hook
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Re: Re: We may not love lawyers, but sometimes we need them
If you aren't "that kind of lawyer", you will have to be considered common people in this context. We are coming full circle.
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Re: We may not love lawyers, but sometimes we need them
A legal system so weighty or heady that a lawyer is required to navigate it is of NO BENEFIT to "The People" it seeks to serve.
There are 3 orders of terrible evil & corruption in every country and rank in corruption and evil in this order.
1. Central Banks/Capital Exchanges
2. Politicians
3. Lawyers and the Legal system(s) that SERVE ONLY LAWYERS!
America currently has a system the effectively only services lawyers. It is a literal game of legal cat and mouse where the one with the most money or lawyers to scrawl through legal minute WINS!
The Juries have willingly and unwittingly become irrelevant pawns in a demise of their own making.
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...which would surely make it a contract issue and not a copyright issue? People probably wouldn't have such a problem with Netflix saying to Jeffries "erm, you're not meant to be promoting that clip yourself because you gacve us exclusivity, please remove it". The problem is that it's being taken down due to "copyright" even though it belongs to the person who uploaded it. (I have other problems with exclusive deals for other reasons, but this isn't the place to go into them)
That said, the ContentID theory is probably most likely as the reason for this takedown, so I'd suggest that it's just another clear-cut case of an artist having his own work removed because someone made a false automated claim. Another instance where the people copyright is supposedly protecting get directly attacked instead. That's problematic enough even if this is one case where there was a contractual reason for the takedown.
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It's far more likely that the deal was that Netflix owns the copyright to the video, which makes it a copyright issue, not a contract issue.
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Re: Re: Re: (actually not - or not necessarily - in the US
So contracts that transfer the copyright favour the buyer, while contracts that don't favour the seller.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: (actually not - or not necessarily - in the US
But in this case, I'm betting there was no copyright transfer necessary. If Netflix produced the video, Netflix is the original copyright holder.
I'll also bet that somewhere in the contracts signed there was a declaration that everyone involved was doing work-for-hire, just to make it expressly clear that the copyright belongs to Netflix.
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NetFlix
Capt ICE Enforcer
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Maybe when YouTube has no videos to play and no one uploading them, maybe their rethink this whole Content ID bullshit...
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YouTube is Hollywood's bitch
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Re: YouTube is Hollywood's bitch
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Re: Re: YouTube is Hollywood's bitch
France has a better Copyright system than the USA?
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Re: YouTube is Hollywood's bitch
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Take that dollar amount and compare it to the actual revenue lost by the videos that were not taken down, but should have been according to our current laws.
It would be interesting to see if you could generate a reproducible conclusion that proves if all their efforts are actually helping, or hurting their bottom line.
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YouTube will almost certainly have that data in their logs. The real question is - how many of those videos were taken down incorrectly. It's pointless to look at ad revenue "lost" by a video that was infringing to begin with, but much more valuable to look at videos taken down despite being uploaded by the rightholder, within the bounds of fair use, etc. There's probably no way to filter those without lengthy and expensive manual examination, though.
"Take that dollar amount and compare it to the actual revenue lost by the videos that were not taken down, but should have been according to our current laws."
I have no idea how you would quantify that.
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I know, that's sort of my point. Big media companies assume they have to do something. But that "something" usually seem's counterproductive. I think it would be interesting for someone to compare what they perceive the problem to be in REAL dollars, to what they believe the cure to be in REAL dollars. I know that wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, and you may have a hard time finding an unbiased pool of researchers to do it. But it would be interesting reading if you could.
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Even if they were shown, flat out and with no room for mis-interpretation, that their actions were costing them more than they were gaining, so long as the 'better' solution gave them less control(and it would) they would still oppose it.
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Tier 1: Company sends claim
Tier 2: Customer sends counternotice
Tier 3: Company counters
Look at the relative numbers to see a trend.
Then you get a professional in copyright to fit the content of several tier 1's into 5 different categories: Clearly illegal, likely illegal, not possible to consider, ilkely legal and clearly legal. The same professional makes the same test on a random sample of tier 3's. The result would show something about how effective ContentID is, the likely false positives, how often a claim is reconsidered after a counterclaim and how many times the company is going all the way down the line, while having a weak or bogus case.
No copyright lawyer would dare to do that, even anonymously since the consequences would always be an "unwanted" answer for the copyright lobby and could cause content creators, to *gasp* test the legality in court!
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Do that for both what the "real" loss would be if they did nothing at all, and the "real" dollars being spent to prevent that loss. Then compare the figures.
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Jobs
Surely Hollywood and the UK copyright industry would be more than happy with us doing something like this being regulated through the government and paying taxes on the money we make , Damn the government would be making tens of millions a month and as Hollywood makes so much per movie they release they would barely even notice the payments.
And the reason for doing this is that we could as techdirt readers, identify what is a false file and what is not.Prevent the takedown of content that is fair use and only removing clearly infringing content.
/s
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Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
You twice use "his own"! But if no one "owns" works, then anyone should be free to "monetize" it, meaning there is NO "his own"... I'm lucky to have a brain that can break out of otherwise infinite loops!
Paying is the key point you always leave out. -- And you're too cheap to pay $20 a month for Netflix so could have watched the bit wanted? -- Anyway, production must be paid for. The current system may be too complex, arbitrary, and too much reward merely distributive middlemen such as Netflix, but the basic principle of copyright protecting work is fine.
Now, the big non-sequitur: how and why is copyright "broken" because you looked for a video previously available but now isn't? For unknown cause, since you didn't investigate?
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Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
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Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
"Persistence pays... very little here, other than to enrage the barking rats."
Then why do you bother? Is your life really that pathetic and empty? You seem to post on here far, far more than I do, I seem to be relatively prolific among the majority and I only come on here occasionally during the work week during downtime periods.
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Re: Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
Irony is probably that his spelling and grammar is so atrocious and buzzword-laden that the spam filter just thinks he's a bot.
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Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
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Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
"how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content."
Where does he claim that he thinks anyone should? He's talking about one person and one person only - the person whose work it is.
"you're too cheap to pay $20 a month for Netflix"
Who the hell pays that much for Netflix? I'd definitely be too cheap to pay more than double the current subscription fee for any service - how much do you pay?
"The current system may be too complex, arbitrary, and too much reward merely distributive middlemen such as Netflix"
Are you aware that Netflix also produces content?
My God, you can't even get basic facts correct, yet here you are ranting into the wind.
Yet again, seek help, you're not living in the real world.
"why is copyright "broken" because you looked for a video previously available but now isn't?"
Because the person who created the video isn't allowed to use it.
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Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
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Re: Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
This should be emphasized in neon letters. If this is not a sign copyright is utterly broken then I don't know what is.
Of course, copyright maximalists think it's ok because the money is still flowing to their overlords pockets.
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Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
Piracy was there before Netflix. And Netflix managed to tackle it. Try again, you just made a fool of yourself.
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Re: Re: Please explain exactly how Netflix could even exist if anyone could re-distribute the content.
So please enlighten me why the person made a fool of themself?
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An even bigger problem
It's a sad state that many of the large but long-abandoned Youtube channels have been dropping like flies.
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May I point out the 800 pound gorilla in the room? Perhaps this is what I first thought it could be- copyright law used as censorship. The Jim Jefferies clip is a very convincing comedic sketch about the ridiculous lack of gun control laws in the United States compared to Australia.
I thought about the routine when I was reading about the Oregon shootings yesterday and obviously I was not the only one. I almost looked it up myself. Too bad it is no longer available
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Jim depicts a guy who is fumbling with a safe when his home is invaded. Yes in that instance a gun in a safe is not much protection.
He did not depict a licensed concealed carrier being held up at gun point defending himself. True story there. My brother used his conceiled gun to defend himself and today he is alive and two criminals are serving 22 years behind bars for their attemted murder/robbery.
How many of these mass killings too place in "gun allowed zones"? I'm not suggesting that putting guns in schools is a solution but I am suggesting that banning guns from certian areas is creating ideal targets for mass murders.
Logic dictates that if you want to have a successful mass murder rampage you should pick a target that you know will have the least resistence.
You don't hear about mass murders taking place in police stations with frequency.
You don't need a gun to go on a mass murdering spree either. Molotive cocktails, pipe bombs, cross bows, poison gas and many others things work well too and are even easier to obtain than a gun.
Maybe we should focus on treating the crazies instead of banning tools the crazies use.
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1) We don't need to ban; we need saner permitting and regulation, including mandatory training class.
2) The US is long overdue for a frank discussion about it's mentally challenged citizens. One of the discussions needed is acceptance that there will always be a percentage of these individuals who will always need 24/7/365 supervision, whether it's in a group home, an institution, or even jail. Too many advocates today insist these individuals must be able to live by themselves, and some of them cannot cope with that. Unfortunately the supporting infrastructure for those folks is either inadequate or totally lacking.
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What is your suggestion for "saner permitting and regulation"?
On your point #2, I think a lot of "living on their own" advocates are poisoned by the "we are all equall" mentality that has lead to loosing sports teams getting trophys too.
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The real elephant in the gun control room is that if someone can get past the moral issue of taking another person's life, no amount of laws will stop them.
Also, if we outlaw guns, just like with drugs and alcohol, we will be putting gangs and the mob in charge of gun distribution. So all gun sales will be off the books.
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How many non-gun mass killings have there been in the past 20 years in the US? I can think of two off hand, and neither one used any of those weapons. One was a massive fertilizer bomb and the other was airplanes.
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Not sure about the laws around crossbows, but there are quite restrictive laws in place regulating poisons and explosives, and the mass killing that take place with those are orders of magnitude less than with guns. Maybe there's a connection there...
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Imagine if an author sold the copyright to their work, and we then had to go collect all of the existing copies and burn them.
[Disclaimer: Armchair lawyering]
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For what its worth... there is another
Also uploaded by himself. Not DMCA'd as of writing this post....
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Which is a perfectly reasonable position to take, but if that's your stance then you should be saying that the idea of copyright is fundamentally nonsensical, not that content creators should still have some rights to IP they created even after they sell those rights.
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As for copyright and the concept of property, you need to be extremely specific to make it make any sense. Particularly when it is time-limited and the item is non-unique.
The conclusion would be that copyright is an inherently non-natural law on its own and your definitions are based on contracts and licenses rather than the mystical copyright itself.
But the point is not that relevant to the OP. There the discussion goes primarily on contact method and the feeling as copyright owners often use in their theatrical defences.
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The idea of copyright AS PROPERTY is fundamentally nonsensical.
FIFY
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I found only a copy down
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Re: I found only a copy down
You can tell the content of the video just from how someone tagged it? That's impressive!
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Re: Re: I found only a copy down
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Pretty much.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. This is a non-issue. If Netflix received the Copyright of the work via an agreement with Jeffries, then they have every right to request that YouTube take it down. It's a stupid thing for them to do, of course, but they have the right to be stupid.
This is not an example of a broken copyright system. Which is unfortunate because there are plenty of valid examples of the broken copyright system out there, but holding this instance up as one of them just serves to give trolls and Copyright Maximalists more ammunition.
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Re: Pretty much.
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Re: Re: Pretty much.
There may be examples of the concept of Copyright itself being fucked up, but this isn't one of them. I don't know of any myself, though I agree with Copyright in principal, so if I did that would be some major cognitive dissonance. I just think that the current implementation of Copyright is seriously fucked up.
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Mirror
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Re: comedy
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Can't use that clip? make a new one.
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"moral rights" are a bad idea
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New link
http://youtu.be/awgs0burFTk
Pretty hard to argue against his points..
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