Free Speech Pro-Tip: You Can Yell Fire In A Crowded Theatre
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No discussion about free speech gets very far without someone busting out the idea that "you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre". It's a phrase that's irritated actual free speech experts for years: it adds nothing to the discussion, and it's not even true — there are plenty of times when you can (not the least of which being if the theatre is actually on fire!) Moreover, the phrase itself is a relic of an old, awful, and overturned Supreme Court ruling that put someone in jail for criticizing the mandatory military draft in the First World War. The inimitable Ken White dug into the phrase's uselessness and horrible legacy in a 2012 Popehat post and, more recently, an episode of the Make No Law podcast.
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Filed Under: 1st amendment, fire in a crowded theater, free speech
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The point is that even if it's taken at its most limited meaning which you describe, it still **adds nothing** to a debate about free speech. It **says nothing** about limitations on *other* forms of speech. And invoking it to support calls for other limitations on speech is sloppy and dangerous - as evidenced by its original usage, which was to put someone in jail for distributing pamphlets that opposed the mandatory military draft. Yes, that's the original "yelling fire" - writing a pamphlet that criticizes the government.
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The big joke is that, even in the early 1900s, people who falsely yelled "Fire!" almost NEVER had legal problems. Why? Because they said they smelled smoke, or they heard someone else yell it first. Law enforcement was *never* effective against this, even with a censorship doctrine to back it up.
The only sane answer was, and is, to provide good exits, good design, a good evacuation plan. And NEVER let people get away trying to excuse censorship without a retort. Censorship and lies are inseparable twins, never found parted one from the other.
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If you object to that, your pedantic ass needs to get a life.
No one is objecting to that. What they're objecting to is the regular use of that phrase to stifle legally protected speech, including in the very case that the line comes from (putting someone in jail for protesting the draft).
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You should read more than two sentences into an article before you comment on it.
I know what you're thinking -- "Read more than two sentences? Who has time for that?" But, my friend, I have some amazing news for you: taking time to read past the second sentence actually saves you time. For example, if you'd read the third and fourth sentence of this article, why, you wouldn't have had to spend any of the time it took you to compose your reply!
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Dumb fire drills. Always putting lives in danger.
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No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
Skip all your legalistic sophistries and show it in reality, kid: set up live video upload from another person, then YOU go into a crowded theater without advance notice and so on, in every way making a FALSE report as if real. -- We'll be able to enjoy you being hauled off to JAIL, likely for your own protection after the crowd beats you up, and even if loosed from criminal charge, the theater owner will have civil cause for lost revenue.
Okay? Then, go to it! You've got a RIGHT, exercise it!
Sheesh. This LONG-RUNNING series based on CHILDISH assertions only shows that are perverse little fiends trying for "look at me!", and truly believe they're a form of royalty above common law.
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
How's Brandy and the baby? Hopefully your genetics take a back seat to hers.
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
You know who should do something like that? That Popehat guy. He is good at that sort of thing. We should ask him nicely....
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Re: Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
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Re: Re: Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
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Yet here you are, throwing a temper tantrum because a “childish” blog said something with which you disagree, because…maturity, I guess?
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
That's the point you fail miserably to understand when talking about free speech. It's about not letting the government control what speech is allowed and to reach such goal you must not prevent any kind of speech be it hateful or that endangers others.
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
You're an idiot.
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
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Re: No. Context is always: FALSE report intended taken for real.
The guy it was said about was an anti-war protestor distributing pamphlets asking people to vote to change the laws that permitted mandatory military service. That's it.
If it were in fact illegal to do that sort of thing, then it would be impossible to run for any elected office that had an incumbent, because it would be sedition against the existing official.
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Yes, but may I cry "movie!" in a crowded firehall? (n/t)
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Re: Yes, but may I cry "movie!" in a crowded firehall? (n/t)
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Why don’t you get off your lazy stupid broke ass
No?
Then STFU
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Those who refuse to learn from the past will
soon regret having to relive through it all over again .
Ahh for the good old days of survival of the fittest .
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It's worth noting...
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