Re: Re: Re: Ingnore ALL posts by "bob" the Troll.
Uh, no, it IS Robert, not that Bob guy.
I know too many people who think the same as Bob does, so maybe, just maybe, if they read bob's comments and see the responses (with minimal ad-hominem attacks) it might help the readers who feel the same as bob see how they are not 100% correct (and neither are the doom and gloom industry stories).
I'm thinking of one particular musician who's music is very important to me, but he has similar conceptions of reality that match Bob's. People like Barry Sookman or Graham Henderson, well, those guys are being paid to feel as Bob does, so I don't care.
But the more I read bob's stuff and the more responses I see, the better I am able to try to convince musicians and people who's opinion I actually care about to see other information and see through the lies/tricks/misinformation provided by the RIAA/MPAA groups.
I am simply trying to be fair.
If we just dismiss Bob, ignoring him, well... others who feel as bob does will continue to do so, instead of being influenced by the responses to bob's ignorance and stubbornness to continue in their belief.
I've found through a2f2a.com (now gone) that many are like bob, but many are not so stubborn when they realize bob's views are based on less than accurate information.
I think we should all respond to Bob's posts, but in a polite, fact-based manner, or at least point out his argument fallacies.
The reason? There are still many politicians and artists who believe as strongly as he does that the RIAA/MPAA stats are 100% true and the industry as a whole (not just the label's subset) has been devastated.
That's right Bob, your company is laying off 800 000 people per year, based upon the upper echelon from a 1986 counterfeit worse-case estimate report applied to the entire US economy (which was not a per-year number).
Gotta love how your bosses get their information, distort it and pump it like it was the truth.
Hell, we should stop death because what will florists do? If no one dies then florists will be out of money. Just like they are used in the numbers, along with caterers, when Hollywood claims jobs would be lost.
Because we all know caterers only cater to Hollywood studios, no one else, no other companies. Just like florists only cater to funerals.
Well Bob, perhaps if in 2003/4 when I WANTED to purchase what I WANTED (ie song not album) where was iTunes for me then? Oh right, only in USA, not in Canada, right across the f--king border buddy, we've even had Free Trade and yet they can't negotiate a fair license?
When music from the US is labeled "import" and charged 1.5-2x the regular price, I call bullshit price fixed cash grab.
So sorry, there ARE restrictions up the ying-yang and there will be with "licensed" services until the labels/studios get it through their heads that people will pay when it works, no restrictions, no price differences.
Check out the case studies and there have been many, many articles on how to resolve the broken industry model.
That discussion has been dismissed by the MPAA/RIAA repeatedly, there are many articles on that (not just on TechDirt either).
They don't want help, they just want to go back in time to regain control over everything, what's created, how/when it is consumed, and exploit it for maximum profits.
Funny how Hollywood rose from the ground as almost a grassroots power against patent/copyright abuse that was coming from Edison's MPPC. Amazing how quickly they forget where they came from once they become wealthy beyond belief.
MPPC had shit films the public didn't enjoy, Hollywood created new and unique films, the public loved it. Now what are they doing, trying to destroy the only means of distribution for small players, while remaking films and generating sequels in an attempt to grab as much cash as possible.
They don't want to talk solutions, they've said "we want to talk" but that's it, them talking, everyone else listening, that's all they want. In old terms, they don't want bidirectional communication (full duplex), they just want half-duplex, without the ability for said end device to send anything back, just hold it's "CTS" (clear to send) pin low and listen.
How very anecdotal of you, have you any data to back up the "millions" of takedowns?
A few difficult edge cases? I've heard a lot more than a few just with YouTube alone. I wouldn't call a label taking down a band's own video a "difficult case" as in the case of Roger O'Donnell. His solo work isn't even massively popular but his label issued a DMCA takedown, meanwhile it was HIM uploading HIS song on HIS YouTube channel.
Right, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of valid DMCA requests.
*NOTE: Letters, faxes, YouTube, not included! What was the most common form of contact from lawyers to accused infringers? Electronic? No, letter!
So even this data is incomplete.
However here's a nice report for you, refer to Figure ES-4
Examining the characteristics of the targets of the notices—the alleged infringers—we found that 41% of all Google notice targets can be classed as competitors of the complainants. Fig. ES-4. This is particularly significant for Google 512(d) complaints regarding links in the index, where 55% of all notices relate to competitors. A significant percentage of the 512(c) and (d) notices sent to Google—21%—target hobbyists, critics, and educational users.
So the majority of the DMCA's have been against competitors.
And even more interesting:
A surprising thirty percent of the notices present claims that fall into this category.10 As a rule of thumb, we tried to capture notices where a genuine dispute related to copyright infringement or defenses would clearly arise. Examples range from the clearly problematic—for example, recipes, prices and metatag information, which are unlikely to be covered by copyright—to instances of very thin copyright claims, such as website HTML “structure.” We also included notices where the target was likely to have a fair use defense. A much smaller number of notices in this category were counted due to other substantive concerns, such as questions regarding the ownership of the copyright in question: for example, a small number of notices appear to be sent not by the copyright holder or a representative, but by a party with some other interest in the material, such as the subject of a photograph. Among notices sent to Google, at least one type of flaw was apparent in 220 notices, or 30% of the Google set. Among the self-reported notices, 43, or, again, 30%, had at least one flaw.
In other words Bob, your data is not as simplistic as you, or the RIAA/MPAA/David Lowery/etc... would have it be.
" improved rankings for the licensed music services that pay artists and deliver fans the music they love."
Too bad those services are ranked lower than pirate sites because pirate sites work better, maybe? Yah think?
Do pirate sites include region locking? Nope.
Do pirate sites display "We're sorry, this video is not available in your region"? Nope.
Do pirate sites make it easy to access content, anywhere, any type? Yup.
Will the RIAA/MPAA/IFPI/Etc... ever clue in and give consumers what they want? Nope.
Hey RIAA/MPAA, you've heard of wheels on mice right? Know what they are for? Scrolling over things, especially non-consumer friendly services. (Trolls: that does NOT necessarily mean "free", it means free of restrictions on use).
How about lowering the rankings of sites who abuse the DMCA - almost everyone has a site these days, that is, everyone issuing DMCA takedowns. So if you submit too many takedowns, your own site gets a lower ranking.
That way when people search for RIAA/MPAA/CRIA/IFPI/etc.. they'll find articles exposing them for their true nature first.
If you're going to lower rankings of sites receiving lots of DMCA's, you clearly know who's sending them, so lower their own site rankings if they are abusing/trolling with DMCA's.
Rather than be rude, I will simply invite you to read this link
It explains how lending works and how the lender does NOT have the book when they lend it (just like a physical book being lent).
As for why would you lend them? So others read them and maybe like them and maybe buy your next book or other books. That's how a lot of sales of books happen, word of mouth and lending (libraries included).
Labels: "What? You won't let us do you a favour and exploit you financially for the honour of exposing our artists to fans? What? You think we charge too much? Well if you don't, we'll bankrupt you and you'll never be able to start a business again."
Wahwah.fm: "WTF?"
Labels: "Take it or leave it. We own this industry and the legislators and the media, you're nothing without us and our content."
Wahwah.fm: "WTF? Fine, we're done here."
Labels: " 'And another one's gone, another one's gone, another one bites the dust.' It's great controlling everything, feel the innovation thriving."
Could such a system not be used against the corps themselves? What if a bunch of users (hundreds would be nice) went after the different corporate entities and did the same thing?
"That's my weather report"
"That's my story about death and destruction"
"That's my bogus stat on piracy"
Etc...
Consult authorities. They should be able to catch the threatening persons. If they are stupid enough to threaten then they are stupid enough to not use more than 5 hops to mask their IP/location/MAC/whatever law enforcement has the ability to trace.
I would also suggest you post a tweet/blog post about the threats. Leave out of it your personal issues, so it can't be seen as an excuse.
You made a mistake, you apologized, you said "this isn't true" regarding LendInk, you've done all you can.
Now consult with authorities, threats are against the law. Forward all emails/phone messages/SMS/letters/whatever they sent, and inform security at your wife's place of business to be on the look out for her safety.
Likely it is people babbling bullshit, like they do with presidents and corporate executives and lawyers, but better safe than sorry.
Your actions do NOT in any way deserve the reaction you've been given and that is truly unfair.
Encouragement of boycott is one thing, violence is not how things are done.
Again, contact the authorities and inform security at your wife's place of business.
Corner One: Bob, Gene Simmons, David Lowery, Madonna
Corner Two: OK GO, Amanda Palmer, Alex Day, Trent Reznor
Could be fun for the first podcast.
Then we move on to lawyers and law experts, like Michael Geist, Larry Lessig, and Ray Beckerman and I'm sure there will be no shortage of lawyers from the other side.
And a thorough debunking would not claim it to be a conspiracy, but instead prove through public quotes that studios were not receiving money, from both the studios and Sony/Microsoft.
That didn't happen, it was just dismissed as "rumour" which is not a debunk.
That's like the shill debunking on here "My blog says you're wrong, but I have no data to back it up, or quotes, or anything, just the "I Said So" proof".
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/for-teenage-smokers-removing-the-allure-of-t he-pack/
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: Re: Ingnore ALL posts by "bob" the Troll.
I know too many people who think the same as Bob does, so maybe, just maybe, if they read bob's comments and see the responses (with minimal ad-hominem attacks) it might help the readers who feel the same as bob see how they are not 100% correct (and neither are the doom and gloom industry stories).
I'm thinking of one particular musician who's music is very important to me, but he has similar conceptions of reality that match Bob's. People like Barry Sookman or Graham Henderson, well, those guys are being paid to feel as Bob does, so I don't care.
But the more I read bob's stuff and the more responses I see, the better I am able to try to convince musicians and people who's opinion I actually care about to see other information and see through the lies/tricks/misinformation provided by the RIAA/MPAA groups.
I am simply trying to be fair.
If we just dismiss Bob, ignoring him, well... others who feel as bob does will continue to do so, instead of being influenced by the responses to bob's ignorance and stubbornness to continue in their belief.
I've found through a2f2a.com (now gone) that many are like bob, but many are not so stubborn when they realize bob's views are based on less than accurate information.
On the post: A Fee-Based Twitter Is No More Ideologically Pure Than An Ad-Supported Twitter
Interesting take on App.net
I don't necessarily feel it was App.Net's intention, but neither was gentrification of Portland.
http://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2012/08/09/race-class-app-net-the-beginning-of-w hite-flight-from-facebook-twitter/
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Ingnore ALL posts by "bob" the Troll.
I think we should all respond to Bob's posts, but in a polite, fact-based manner, or at least point out his argument fallacies.
The reason? There are still many politicians and artists who believe as strongly as he does that the RIAA/MPAA stats are 100% true and the industry as a whole (not just the label's subset) has been devastated.
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Gotta love how your bosses get their information, distort it and pump it like it was the truth.
Hell, we should stop death because what will florists do? If no one dies then florists will be out of money. Just like they are used in the numbers, along with caterers, when Hollywood claims jobs would be lost.
Because we all know caterers only cater to Hollywood studios, no one else, no other companies. Just like florists only cater to funerals.
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: Hold on a minute
"You don't offer solutions" is like walking into Tim Horton's and complaining they don't sell coffee and donuts.
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: Licensed...
When music from the US is labeled "import" and charged 1.5-2x the regular price, I call bullshit price fixed cash grab.
So sorry, there ARE restrictions up the ying-yang and there will be with "licensed" services until the labels/studios get it through their heads that people will pay when it works, no restrictions, no price differences.
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Hold on a minute
That discussion has been dismissed by the MPAA/RIAA repeatedly, there are many articles on that (not just on TechDirt either).
They don't want help, they just want to go back in time to regain control over everything, what's created, how/when it is consumed, and exploit it for maximum profits.
Funny how Hollywood rose from the ground as almost a grassroots power against patent/copyright abuse that was coming from Edison's MPPC. Amazing how quickly they forget where they came from once they become wealthy beyond belief.
MPPC had shit films the public didn't enjoy, Hollywood created new and unique films, the public loved it. Now what are they doing, trying to destroy the only means of distribution for small players, while remaking films and generating sequels in an attempt to grab as much cash as possible.
They don't want to talk solutions, they've said "we want to talk" but that's it, them talking, everyone else listening, that's all they want. In old terms, they don't want bidirectional communication (full duplex), they just want half-duplex, without the ability for said end device to send anything back, just hold it's "CTS" (clear to send) pin low and listen.
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Re: Re: DMCA abuse
A few difficult edge cases? I've heard a lot more than a few just with YouTube alone. I wouldn't call a label taking down a band's own video a "difficult case" as in the case of Roger O'Donnell. His solo work isn't even massively popular but his label issued a DMCA takedown, meanwhile it was HIM uploading HIS song on HIS YouTube channel.
Right, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of valid DMCA requests.
Here's Google's take on that which counter's your claims:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090315/2033134126.shtml
Oh right, it's from TechDirt, so how about Google themselves?
http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/feature/93FEDCEF6636CF90CC25757A0072B4B7
(since I doubt you'll follow the links provided by TechDirt).
Here's the actual numbers since 2011:
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/
*NOTE: Letters, faxes, YouTube, not included! What was the most common form of contact from lawyers to accused infringers? Electronic? No, letter!
So even this data is incomplete.
However here's a nice report for you, refer to Figure ES-4
So the majority of the DMCA's have been against competitors.
And even more interesting:
In other words Bob, your data is not as simplistic as you, or the RIAA/MPAA/David Lowery/etc... would have it be.
Happy reading!
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
Licensed...
Too bad those services are ranked lower than pirate sites because pirate sites work better, maybe? Yah think?
Do pirate sites include region locking? Nope.
Do pirate sites display "We're sorry, this video is not available in your region"? Nope.
Do pirate sites make it easy to access content, anywhere, any type? Yup.
Will the RIAA/MPAA/IFPI/Etc... ever clue in and give consumers what they want? Nope.
Hey RIAA/MPAA, you've heard of wheels on mice right? Know what they are for? Scrolling over things, especially non-consumer friendly services. (Trolls: that does NOT necessarily mean "free", it means free of restrictions on use).
On the post: It's Never Enough: Both RIAA & MPAA Aren't Satisfied With Google Punishing 'Pirate' Sites
DMCA abuse
That way when people search for RIAA/MPAA/CRIA/IFPI/etc.. they'll find articles exposing them for their true nature first.
If you're going to lower rankings of sites receiving lots of DMCA's, you clearly know who's sending them, so lower their own site rankings if they are abusing/trolling with DMCA's.
Can we add a new term? Takedown Troll?
On the post: Legit Ebook Lending Site Taken Down By An Angry Twitmob Of Writers [UPDATED]
Re: Pirate?
It explains how lending works and how the lender does NOT have the book when they lend it (just like a physical book being lent).
As for why would you lend them? So others read them and maybe like them and maybe buy your next book or other books. That's how a lot of sales of books happen, word of mouth and lending (libraries included).
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120807/21080519958/legit-ebook-lending-site-taken-d own-angry-twitmob-writers.shtml#c2399
On the post: Another Music Service Shuts Down, Blames Ridiculous Licensing Fees
What?
Wahwah.fm: "WTF?"
Labels: "Take it or leave it. We own this industry and the legislators and the media, you're nothing without us and our content."
Wahwah.fm: "WTF? Fine, we're done here."
Labels: " 'And another one's gone, another one's gone, another one bites the dust.' It's great controlling everything, feel the innovation thriving."
Public: *crickets and torrents*
On the post: How Google's ContentID System Fails At Fair Use & The Public Domain
Backfire?
"That's my weather report"
"That's my story about death and destruction"
"That's my bogus stat on piracy"
Etc...
On the post: Legit Ebook Lending Site Taken Down By An Angry Twitmob Of Writers [UPDATED]
Re: Re:
I would also suggest you post a tweet/blog post about the threats. Leave out of it your personal issues, so it can't be seen as an excuse.
You made a mistake, you apologized, you said "this isn't true" regarding LendInk, you've done all you can.
Now consult with authorities, threats are against the law. Forward all emails/phone messages/SMS/letters/whatever they sent, and inform security at your wife's place of business to be on the look out for her safety.
Likely it is people babbling bullshit, like they do with presidents and corporate executives and lawyers, but better safe than sorry.
Your actions do NOT in any way deserve the reaction you've been given and that is truly unfair.
Encouragement of boycott is one thing, violence is not how things are done.
Again, contact the authorities and inform security at your wife's place of business.
On the post: What Would You Like To Hear In A Techdirt Podcast?
A Show Down
Corner Two: OK GO, Amanda Palmer, Alex Day, Trent Reznor
Could be fun for the first podcast.
Then we move on to lawyers and law experts, like Michael Geist, Larry Lessig, and Ray Beckerman and I'm sure there will be no shortage of lawyers from the other side.
On the post: If It Takes You 20 Years To Notice Madonna Sampled Your Songs, Perhaps It's A Transformative Use
Seems Simple Enough
Even if they get it, I doubt the original creator will get any.
On the post: Alex Day Sells Half A Million Songs By Breaking All The 'Rules'
@ Post 193 and 194
On the post: Alex Day Sells Half A Million Songs By Breaking All The 'Rules'
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See the difference? How many more albums has Kiss sold after Gene Simmons' rant about taking away the kid's home?
Don't shit on your fanbase and you'll do a lot better.
On the post: Alex Day Sells Half A Million Songs By Breaking All The 'Rules'
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That didn't happen, it was just dismissed as "rumour" which is not a debunk.
That's like the shill debunking on here "My blog says you're wrong, but I have no data to back it up, or quotes, or anything, just the "I Said So" proof".
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