How Google's ContentID System Fails At Fair Use & The Public Domain
from the it's-a-problem dept
We recently covered how YouTube briefly pulled down the NASA-uploaded public domain video footage from the Curiosity rover's Mars landing. We were quite careful in the piece not to call it a DMCA takedown, because it was pretty clear that the DMCA was not involved. Unfortunately, many have been assuming that it was via the DMCA (and there are even lengthy comments discussing aspects of the DMCA). However, the DMCA had nothing to do with it. It appears that the whole thing was due to the way that YouTube's ContentID system works.Tim Lee has a great post explaining how ContentID works in such situations, including the story of another video -- which involved commentary on the Curiosity landing done by Lon Seidman of the site CT Tech Junkie, which quickly received five claims from media organizations to copyright in the content.
If anything, as Tim Lee's article explains, ContentID is actually demonstrating (quite clearly) why there are so many concerns about copyright takedowns. Copyright system supporters often insist that it's "easy" for sites to recognize and take down infringing content, and use any evidence of infringement as a damning sign of a site not doing enough. But, the reality on the ground is that making a determination on whether or not something is infringing is not nearly as easy as some people believe:Content ID, by contrast, is an opaque and proprietary system where the accuser can serve as the judge, jury, and executioner. Worse, the person whose speech is being silenced has little recourse. The Content ID system tips whatever balance is present in the DMCA and allows even more pernicious forms of manipulation and abuse. In a Wired column earlier this year, Andy Baio enumerated some of the problems that YouTube users encounter:
But there has been a dramatic rise in Content ID abuse in the past couple of years, wielded in ways never intended. Scammers are using Content ID to steal ad revenue from YouTube video creators en masse, with some companies claiming content they don’t own deliberately or not. The inability to understand context and parody regularly leads to “fair use” videos getting blocked, muted or monetized.
But even without taking scammers into account, the premise behind Content ID is just incompatible with fair use and the public domain. It's impossibly complicated to define in a set of "business rules" for automated enforcement. Allowing Content ID robots to apply the rules leads to oversimplification that chills legitimate speech.
But in accommodating the demands of large copyright holders, YouTube has inadvertently reminded us all of the crucial point that flagging copyright infringement isn't nearly as simple as it is often portrayed by rightsholders. Even scanning videos for exact content matches that exceed certain thresholds (in order to preserve at least some fair uses) actually fails in all sorts of interesting ways.ContentID certainly has some nice features -- including an innovative new revenue stream for content creators. But there are significant problems with it, concerning how it handles fair use and public domain material, which serve to highlight why the idea of a "silver bullet" solution for online infringement is so problematic.
Rather than acting as a neutral arbitrator between major content companies and independent organizations, YouTube's system favors the larger rightsholders that make use of its Content ID system over smaller creators. And because it's a private system that goes beyond the DMCA, the Content ID system is under no legal obligation to comply with the DMCA's safeguards and timelines.
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Filed Under: automated, content id, copyright, dmca, public domain, youtube
Companies: google, youtube
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Hmmm...
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Easier
Yet because of Google/YouTube's Content-ID it's much easier for right holders to flag "infringing materials".
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Backfire?
"That's my weather report"
"That's my story about death and destruction"
"That's my bogus stat on piracy"
Etc...
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Re: Backfire?
You know.
You know that the law doesn't treat people equally. Someone would talk to a politician. The DA would file felony charges. People would plea-bargain to misdemeanours and count themselves lucky just to get a fine and probation with no jail time.
You know what would happen.
You know.
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Re: Backfire?
The alternative, ContentID, is inaccessible to the public and small-time artists.
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Scripps Apology
Not a word in their apology about Scripps' similar takedown of NASA TV video last April.
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Re: Scripps Apology
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Re: Scripps Apology
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Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Now most people suspect that Google doesn't really want to solve the piracy problem because that's how they get their content. They pretty much said as much in the infamous YouTube emails uncovered during the Viacom suit.
But the fact is that Google could easily require everyone to log in to YouTube before uploading something. They require you to log in to use practically all of their other services. Heck, they want a working cell phone number of use tools like the AppEngine. That's just how they make sure there's a real body on the other end of the line.
So they could do the same thing. Then they could put up a button that allowed people to get the real name of the uploader for a mano-a-mano law suit. No need to require a subpoena or anything. Just let the users duke it out.
That would clean up 99.9% of the trouble. The rest would be interesting edge cases about fair use and quoting.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
How do you start a dialog with that? Maybe we should dub that the LendInk Effect?
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Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Honestly, I don't think they have a sense of humor anymore for the most part.
As the original poster mentions, the real issue is a anonymous nature of YouTube, which emboldens people to post copyright material with impunity. How often do you see "not mine, just posted it anyway" sort of message on Youtube? They know they are wrong but they do it anyway.
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
In you have the courage to say that out loud despite the numbers showing that copyright holders completely ignore any good faith and just go for the jugular?
The anonymous nature of Youtube is a fantasy, there are no anonymous on Youtube, if subpoenaed Google gives up all their information on the account which includes the IP address, other accounts of Google services and all the tracking that Google did on that user which all together have a great possibility of identifying the user of that account.
I see a lot of accounts uploading movies there and incredible the people who do it also post their personal videos showing their faces, are those people hardcore pirates or just clueless people you know like the ones you see in the streets?
Honestly, the people's sense of humor about copyrights has gone too, people are not willing to put up with it anymore, this nonsense has to stop and it will stop.
By hook or by crook copyright is going down.
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Really? Because I can only think of a few cases where rights holders didn't adopt a 'shoot first and ask questions never' stance. For every article that might show 'good faith', I can point you to ten that didn't.
because of the structure of DMCA, they must police content on the whole internet on a daily basis to stay ahead.
I think you would be hard pressed to show me examples of authors 'staying ahead' by sending DMCA notices.
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
That's your interpretation.
Another interpretation is that most people know that the copyright laws are BS, they aren't trying to take credit for creating it, just trying to share something awesome.
Maybe they need some more educational videos on piracy.
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Good faith of their wallet.
Thanks for describing copyright supporters.
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
You have to log in to your Youtube account to upload video, AC. There is no "anonymous" uploading of videos. They may be fake users or one-time accounts, but you must log in.
"They know they are wrong"
If they thought it was wrong they wouldn't do it at all.
And finally, given Google's estimates on the number of DMCA takedowns that are fraudulent (40 percent) it would be more accurate to say they face a wave of things they want to take down, not a wave of violations.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Yes, and you can get a Youtube account with a throw away email address and fake information. Why's your point?
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
You're kind of lost in your own arguments aren't you?
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Re: Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Not most people. Just a small number of conspiracy theorists.
Not even close. Most YT uploaders are not intentionally, if at all, violating copyright laws.
Those that are could very easily circumvent the system you describe. All they have to do is create a new google login for each thing they want to upload. There is literally no way, short of demanding to see government-issued ID, for google to have any assurance that users are using their real name and do not have many accounts. Even demanding a working cell phone number doesn't mean a thing, since I can get multiple working cell phones for $10 each at my local supermarket.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
You're offtopic bob and you know it. ContentID is an illigal system it seems. Bypassing DMCA law.
A first step would be for Google to force filing a DMCA notice for all detected possible infringments. They tried something, it's a failure. ContentID should go away to the "Chilling Effects" department it belongs to.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
So you see, you can't force every1 into registering and giving real IDs. Data is flawed and can be breached. And I personally intend to let my pseudonyms die like that, unknown. So get out of your fantasy world where everything is simple. News flash for you: real world is complex. And it doesn't need copyright.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
They do.
"That would clean up 99.9% of the trouble. The rest would be interesting edge cases about fair use and quoting."
Fair use concerns account for well over 0.1 percent of takedown requests.
If I've learned anything about this subject over the past 12 years, it's that there seems to be a direct correlation between being anti-piracy and being ignorant about computers and the Internet.
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Re: Well how about asking users to stand behind their content?
Put copyright back to original terms. Same mission accomplished faster, cheaper, better!
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As one of those who was confused and thought this was a DMCA takedown -- we keep hearing about DMCA takedowns that I just assume every takedown is a DMCA takedown, I know, don't assume -- I have to say that I am still confused about this whole thing. I do appear to not be alone in my hatred for automated systems for dealing with these things though.
When will companies learn that making movie studios happy is hazardous to their business models?
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If it could watch a video and understand it and determine if it was actually fair use or not then sure it would be great.
Sadly the only method for that right now is humans and even worse the ones that do this are only working for the rich. So we are not in their best interest at all.
The ContentID should figure how much is in the video how long is it and if it's at a certain figure it should not be took down and instead sent for actual people to check.
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if you kill someone, you do not get to say if it was murder, or manslaughter, or accendental.. if you rob a bank,, you are not the person who determines what crime you committed.. it's the courts..
same with usuing things that belong to others,, only an idiot would think they have that right to make that decision..
like mansick ... .
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No shit. It's a good thing culture isn't property, isn't it?
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if you kill someone, you do not get to say if it was murder, or manslaughter, or accendental.. if you rob a bank,, you are not the person who determines what crime you committed.. it's the courts.. "
Ah, good, so we are in agreement then that content should not be taken down at the say-so of just one party, but only after a legal challenge in front of a court. Nice to see you join the right side finally, and see that extra-judicial determinations of legality are wrong and should not be left up to only the accusing party.
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Stop conflating idiot civil and criminal laws with actually good criminal laws.
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Oh so ContentID is actually allowing takeover only after a legal judgment?
Or does it mean "fair use" must first be confirmed by a judge before publishing ?
I am so confused now...
Or is it just reflecting the direction your corporate masters want the law to take ?
Lastly, feel free to use your verified real name when posting on here, and follow what you preach. That's just in case your masters want to claim copyright on their IP once they don't need you anymore or choose to dump you to the sharks because you failed the mission they pay good money for.
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Re: Re:
it would not be a very nice world is everone got to decide if what they were doing was legal, fair, right or appropriate..
because it's clear the majority here would fail to make that determination.. especially mansick, and his trolls..
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I know what it means.
It means "stay the fuck out of my creative business and find something else to do besides worrying who's using what or whether or not someone has 'permission' to do it".
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Re: Re: Re:
I know what it means.
It means "stay the fuck out of my creative business and find something else to do besides worrying who's using what or whether or not someone has 'permission' to do it".
Tell that to the MAFIAA...
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Re: Re: Re:
I know exactly what it means. And even if I didn't my opinion would be as good as anyone else's. We decide as a group - that's what democracy means. We have the RIGHT to make legal determinations. Who is better qualified than we the people?
"it would not be a very nice world is everone got to decide if what they were doing was legal, fair, right or appropriate.. "
This goes even beyond democracy - we all have conscience and free will. We MUST decide for ourselves if what we are doing is legal, fair, right and appropriate.
I don't like the copyright apologists but I love the pure TechDirt trolls. That was a beautiful set, my friend.
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Mike, once again you are looking at a narrow situation, and attempting to broadly apply it to the rest of the situations. ContentID generally works well, does what it is suppose to do, and deals with what would otherwise be massive, stupid amounts of infringement.
Fair Use claims are narrow in scope and not all that common. Most people putting up a video on Youtube will never have such a claim. Why shut down something that works for almost everyone, just to handle exceptional cases?
Wouldn't it be better to just have an extra field on the submit site, that says: "If you are claiming fair use on this content, please explain why you feel you have a fair use case". SO when ContentID flags something, it can forward it to a human for review.
The best solution isn't to kill something that works, just because you feel it may hurt in exceptional cases.
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You know why most of the time people don't claim fair use?
Because they don't know they could do it and even when they do know it takes a lot of resources not just financial, but time and human resources to defend such claims that is why they are used so rarely by normal people who would just leave it alone, they have no interest in fighting for it because they can't see why is in their best interest for doing so.
ContentID doesn't work at all, you don't even need a study to see it happening all the time, but Google could make available the numbers for all to see and see what is being blocked so people can dive in into that data and mine it for the answers. Would you like to see how that turns out?
I am absolutely sure, that it would show videos the following?
- Videos taken down 100%
- Videos reinstated 20%
- Videos taken down permanently with strong claims of infringement 20%
- Videos taken down with dubious claims 80%
You wanna know why?
Because fair use is not recognized by copyright holders.
Because copyright holders are not mandated to keep records of their property and dealing and thus being unable to tell if something is infringing or not.
Is there a frigging central database where anybody can go look to see if something was licensed and by whom and what was the terms?
If there is not, people wouldn't know what is infringing or not not even the copyright holder.
Then there is the disgusting attitude copyright holders holds towards fair use and copyright exceptions.
Copyright should be scrapped it is not compatible with modern day society.
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Re: Re:
you can claim whatever you like, that will NEVER make it so, even is masnick says so..
you cannot claim fair use, you can try to prove fair use in a court, but that would require you to understand what fair use is.. which you have failed to display that understanding..
mansick knows this to be a fact, or else he is lying to you to make a point, or he is just plain stupid.. for making false and misleading statements ... if you choose to believe masnick,, you'll find that a poor defense at law " but Masnick said I could do it ""..
it could even be argued that Masnick in inciting crime with his deception and lies.. inciting weak minds to do his bidding..
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And I do believe you don't understand what fair use means dude, seriously go hit the books.
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/intellectual-property/fair-use-and-public-domain.html?DCM P=GOO-BUS_Copyright-FairUse&HBX_PK=what+is+fair+use
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/intellec tual-property/fair-use-law.html
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/17/1/107
https://en.wikiped ia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Fair fraking use is in American law and it is a valid claim against copyright infringement under a set of circumstances.
Hope you have an internet connection under your bridge.
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Re: Re: Re:
Interesting, so you have to go to the courts to prove your remix, derivative work is fair use but the MAFIAA can claim copyright over it without any chance of defense or analysis. You are a moron =)
it could even be argued that Masnick in inciting crime with his deception and lies..
It could even be argued that you are inciting a crime against humanity by locking up culture and disregarding the population rights. Shut up will you?
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But that would require you to understand what crime, deception and lies are .. which you have failed to display that understanding
Aw hell, I'm going to bed.
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Re: Re:
The answer as you know is, NO. You have to upload the video first, then content ID either matches it, or it doesn't. Even then you aren't safe, it can be flagged at any time. Sometimes the rights holder just wants to put ads on the video, which to me is fine. Even then, you are not safe, they can change their mind at any time and now you have one strike or many.
I've had videos up for years with 100's of thousands of views, and then BAM strike!
There's also doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for the strikes sometimes. I had maybe 20 VERY old clips from one network on my channel, the gave me a strike for ONE video. Searching YouTube for that network's three letter acronym gave me thousands of results that have mostly been on YouTube for years as well. I took down all the videos I had from their network in what I like to refer to the Megaupload Effect, (Scare one, and the other's take care of themselves for fear) And now nobody get's to see those clips from 20+ years ago that they will never release to the public.
I've had live performances that were taped by audience members flagged for one song consistently. The rights holder just wanted to put ads on the video, fine. But this is a band who is very bootleg/taper friendly, so I probably could have fought it, but is it really worth the trouble. The other side to that is, the rights holder can change their mind as stated above, at any time and my account now has more strikes. For a video, shot by a fan, of a band that invites people to film/tape.
There are many tv show clips on YouTube, some shows seem to encourage it, Daily Show, Southpark, etc, but how do you know which others are ok with it until you upload?
I know, create your own content then you'll know.
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We can all agree that Cripps Company used Google's Content-ID to take down PUBLIC DOMAIN footage of Curiosity's landing on Mars. For years (and I mean since Google's takeover of YouTube) these type of takedowns have been going on. Fair use and public domain footage takedown requests are rampant. Content-ID is rife with abuse like this.
To me, Mike is simply pointing out a major problem and, is pointing out that it needs to be fixed. I agree with Mike. It really should not be that that easy to take down public domain footage.
The fact that Content ID facilitated a takedown of NASA's own footage from their OWN YouTube page is just one of MANY examples of the flaws in Google's Content ID system. This one just hit when millions of my fellow countryman watched Curiosity land and would have noticed it in stead of watching the NBC branded Olympics.
Thank you Mike for being one of the few to expose the abuses of content companies.
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Re:
I love this idea.
But it would be used in millions of cases, not "exceptional cases." People upload to Youtube because they think they have a case that it's OK to do so, whether or not somebody else agrees.
Also, the conglomerates would never stand for it, because it would require them to give up an enormous amount of control. Right now they take down whatever they want without backtalk - why would they want a system that was the same, but with backtalk?
And what if the human reviewer says fair use but the flagger disagrees? Youtube is sued for infringement.
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A little bit of history
I'm going to quote from the syllabus to Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan (1963). Ordinarily, quoting from the syllabus is frowned upon, but I'm offering this a history lesson�not for any holding:
The first major difference between the situation examined in Bantam Books and the present YouTube situation is the current absence of overt state action. In Rhode Island, they set up a state commission to pressure the distributors. In YouTube's case, the large corporations don't need no stinkin' state commission.
The second major difference appears to be in the threats delivered: The Rhode Island commission explicitly threatened criminal prosecution. In YouTube's case, we don't know exactly what threats the large corporations have privately delivered to Google.
Now for the similarity:
In both cases we see an effective censorship regime. The censorship is no less effective for its �informality�.
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Re: A little bit of history
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Re: Re: A little bit of history
And what's the point of public education?
Is the purpose of public education merely to churn out satisfactory assembly-line workers for (non-)employment in dying rust-belt industries?
Or is there a larger benefit to building an educated citizenry?
�
As it stands, re-reading my own original post �or rather not re-reading it� �just skimming over it� the whole thing is, sadly, tl;dr.
If I had hauled in additional discussion of the six strikes censorship plan, and the White House involvement behind that plan, the whole post would have been twice as long, and not necessarily more readable or understandable.
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that is a legal precept, determined by a court, not by an idiot user such as masnick..
really masnick... make some sense one day,, and learn about the things you claim to know about.. stop being a fuckwit...
we allready know you are not very bright, but im sure even you can work out you do not have the right or ability in any form to determine is some content is "fair use" or a copyright breach.. fair use is a legal definition, it's not for morons like mansick to make that desicion, or anyone else..
but nice try at disinformation, way to further confuse your simpleton disiples.
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Or both.
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"In August 2008 US District Judge Jeremy Fogel of San Jose, California ruled that copyright holders cannot order a deletion of an online file without determining whether that posting reflected "fair use" of the copyrighted material."
Guess what trolling asshole, I just used Fair Use to explain it to you.
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
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https://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php
Apparently you want to spread that myth that "fair use" is not a valid claim or some nonsense like that.
Is not a claim is the law under US code title 17 chapter 1 paragraph 107, you should read it some time.
The law says it is legal to ignore copyright in some cases, so claiming fair use is all good and well and the final decision if it is fair use or not lies in the hands of a judge, not Google, not you and certainly not media companies.
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I just reported your comment for the obvious schoolyard bullying it is. But bullying on behalf of other is your business generally isn'it ?
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I just reported your comment for the obvious schoolyard bullying it is. But bullying on behalf of other is your business generally isn'it ?
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DMCA TAkedown Perjury Provision
http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/internet-law/consequences-of-filing-a-false-dmca-takedown-reques t/
"However, some people abuse the DMCA system. Despite not having a valid claim of copyright infringement, a person who wants content taken down may send a takedown notice anyway, in order to have material they find offensive, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable removed, or simply to harass the person responsible for the account which will be affected by the DMCA notice. What many who abuse the DMCA system do not realize is that they can be sued and held civilly liable for the havoc they wreak by sending these fake notices."
My question is why the serial abusers of the DMCA are not being sued or procecuted for doing what the article says is illegal.
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Re: DMCA TAkedown Perjury Provision
With regards to your question, the 'justice' system as it stands today is heavily weighted in favor of those with money, so the odds of the rich and powerful actually being held accountable for their actions is approximately the same as winning the lottery.
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IOW, disabling a video do not necessarily mean that a "big, bad, bully" was the culprit. There are other possibilities, as this article aptly notes.
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It was a Content-ID takedown issued by Scripps. They knew it sidestepped the DCMA and Google has done nothing to change Content-ID to make it less abuse-able by copyright trolls. So really both parties are at fault.
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1. Problem is that NASA has its very tight budget to consider. Most likely they either would prefer to spend that budget innovating and doing research. Filing a lawsuit would whither away their budget.
2. They played low key or didn't know about it, and they properly protested the takedown with the millions of other people on YouTube (millions in metaphor).
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Scripps did not appear to issue a takedown, but they're still the party at fault. ContentID works by having one party (in this case Scripps) designate content that it claims to hold the copyright on. It then searches for that content elsewhere and THEN gives the (claimed) copyright holder options (including to take it down or monetize it with ads).
So Scripps still (1) uploaded the content and said it was its own copyright and (2) when asked about it, said to take the content down.
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OK, Sure
If you are a large, wealthy, corporation, and claim to own something, copyright, patent, what have you, that claim is accepted as fact and other companies move to protect you, with no documentation or proof required.
If you are a small company or individual and claim ownership, that claim is not accepted even if documented and proven.
Truely, he who has the gold makes the rules. Disgusting!!!
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Remixing Copyright Law
For more information, check out the following link: http://ncjolt.org/remixing-the-copyright-system-a-look-at-the-problems-faced-by-the-creators-of-remi xes-and-the-recent-attempts-to-solve-the-problem/
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