It's true to some degree that Sweden is a socialistic nanny state (but we also have a long history of embracing free trade with other countries, which is probably why we have done so well - it's a strange mix of socialism and free market).
However, I don't see what that has to do with the Pirate Party votes. I interpret these votes as a protest against the new form of nanny state we see in many countries which is supposed to protect us against nonexistant (at least in Sweden) terrorism by gradually depriving us of our civil liberties. The PP support is also a vote against the corporativistic blending of the state and special interests.
Or as Rick Falkvinge, the president of the Pirate Party, recently said: "We don't accept being wire-tapped/monitored by the state. People are beginning to understand that the state is not always good."
If you think that it's about the free movies and music for the majority of the Pirate Party voters then I'm not sure that that is necessarily true. It could be like that, but it could very well be the laws passed lately in Sweden that limit civil liberties. Keep in mind that the left and green party also promotes free file sharing (and the Center party promotes free downloading but not uploading) so it could be that those who want to make it extra clear to the government that they don't accept wire-tapping and data-mining in all electronic traffic that crosses Swedish borders voted for PP specifically to send a strong message. And that those who just cared about free file sharing to a larger degree voted for the green and left party. (The green party support almost doubled compared to last election)
We won't know for sure until statisticians analyse the voting patterns in more detail I guess.
I partly agree to what you say. Personally I'd rather see a radically shortened copyright term than completely abolishing the economical rights as far as noncommercial file sharing goes like the Pirate Party wants to do. However, if it's either copyright or loosing the right to privacy, introducing broad surveilance / data rentention, and giving private interests police powers and possibility of extortion - then copyright has to go. It's not that important that one can compromise with these fundamental democratic values.
Anyway, a friend of mine mailed some candidates from other parties and asked how they viewed copyright. Several of these top condidates said that the purpose of copyright is not to promote culture or work for the common good but just to secure the (natural) rights of creators to protect their work. They also said that copyright protection should last for as long as a work has commercial value and said that Shakespeare's and Mozart's works are good examples of why we need a long copyright term (!)
So even though I just want a shortening of the copyright term I can't really vote for many other parties except the left parties and the Pirate Party. I don't want to be represented by someone who sees copyright as a natural right. Even if some of they say that they don't want to extend the copyright term these natural rights people will never be able to provide any arguments for why not to do it, which scares me.
The media has been trying to paint a picture of the Pirate Party as people who just want stuff for free. Since I've been following the blog debate here closely I know that that is completely false. The civil liberties is what most people are concerned about. That said, I'm sure that your description fits a part of the Pirate Party voters (but not the party representatives and those vocal in the debate).
We saw the same thing in the Pirate Bay case where the TPB guys gave a press conference where one of the larger TV channels were not welcome since they had earlier presented untrue things about the Pirate Bay (even though TPB had supplied them with background material). Many described this as hypocracy - that they advocated free speech but didn't live up to it themselves by not granting TV4 access. (I think TV4 bought coverage from those who were there though)
(TPB was clear about that critical media was also welcome, but they didn't want to spend their free time helping those who spread outright lies)
The Pirate Party is bigger than Centerpartiet, Kristdemokraterna, Vänsterpartiet - all parties with a long representation in the Swedish parliament. Don't you think these and other parties will be asking themselves how this could happen and what they did wrong when they couldn't attract young voters?
Don't you think a lot of newspapers will write about the party and that people will ask "who are these guys and what do they really want?". Don't you think political analysts will highlight the fact that maybe the public wasn't so forgiving about the wire-tapping laws as politicians believed (the Swedish prime minister said a year ago that everyone would benefit if there was less debate and in a later statement he implied that the issues would later be forgotten by voters). Hopefully we will get more debate around IP and civil rights issues. It should be noted that the german pirate party also got a relatively strong support. It's not impossible that they too get a seat in the next election. The Swedish green party almost doubled compared to last election and they have a very similar political program to that of the Pirate Party. The green group in the EU also grows considerably and they seem to understand these issues better than others.
Anyway, the most important thing is to raise awareness and get people to discuss these issues.
I think copyright extensions, software patents, paradigm shifts in how we let private interests take over law enforcement powers previously possessed only by the police and the wire-tapping and data retention laws will be very hard to revoke once they are in place. So I cannot really agree with you. These issues are very pressing.
"The fact is that the EU has been very good for supporting the more moderate voices against copyright expansion"
Really? So why did the European Parliament then recently support a copyright extension of 20 years? (and this was a compromise - the original proposal was for an extension of 45 years)
If the EP is against 3-strikes laws then why does the Telecoms Package mention "lawful content"?
I agree that there are real privacy issues involved here...but most of those engaging in this activity could give a rat's patoot about that.
Like these people protesting outside the parliament against the wire-tapping laws you mean?
Come on! Of course the broad surveilance/wire-tapping laws has been a major factor in PP being able to gather this much support.
I don't necessarily agree with the overall stance of "The Pirate Party"
Just curious, what would you not agree with?
(if you are uncertain of PP's stance in some question feel free to ask)
I get the impression that the main purpose with writing something like that is to not get tainted by the "pirate" word even though you seem to support most of their ideas. For example I know that Chris Andersson was advised against using the pirate word because of the way he could be perceived if he did, even though he had no trouble with the word himself.
If the Lissabon treaty is passed they may get two seats later on, but at this point they will get to send one representative. The final figure is 7.1% by the way. Even with only one seat I think this very strong support sends an important message to other parties, both in Sweden and in other countries.
Since PP stole the whole media show they also managed to keep the xenophobic party Sverigedemokraterna out, which I'm very thankful for. In other countries those types of parties often use the EU election as a stepping point towards entering the national parliament. In a desperate attempt the leader of Sverigedemokraterna even wrote an article with the title: "I'm a file sharer". :D
I too hate the party name, but I also realize that they probably wouldn't have been were there are today without that name and all media attention that it attracted. Somebody once said: "I'd rather vote for a party with a silly name than a party with silly political ideas".
One can also note that some of the big parties misjudged the voters when they tried to talk about political issues that are not decided by the European Parliament in their election campaigns. At the same time both of the two biggest parties in Sweden (plus/minus some minor changes) support the laws making it possible for a civil authority to tap into all electronic communication crossing the borders of Sweden.
The Pirate Party's top candidate is a former anti-software patent EU activist for FFII. I hope he'll be the one who gets the seat in the parliament (the votes for individual candidates won't be finished until Wednesday).
It seems like the western countries copy the surveilance efforts of China, but this time around France actually seems to be ahead China with their plan to oblige people to install state-approved "anti piracy" security software on every computer of every home with Internet access in France.
A couple of years ago a big Swedish newspaper ran an online poll on their web page with the following question: "Do you answer truthfully to web poll questions?"
The same argument is often used here in Sweden to illustrate just how impossible it is to stop file sharing just by concentrating on online sharing. If people can quickly share massive amounts of material offline that also renders any surveilance of people's online activity useless.
It is important to see that this is not all about copyright. In Sweden the parliament recently introduced a law which forces all telecom companies to give an government authority access to all cable-bound communication that crosses Swedish borders, we have the IPRED law which gives rights holders the possibility of demanding that ISPs reveal the identity of someone behind a certain IP address, and we will soon implement the European data rentention directive which will mean that all mail and telephone traffic data as well as telephone geo-data must be stored for 6 months.
It is these violations of civil liberaties and the power shift from the public to the state that make many support the Pirate Party.
Btw. it's interesting to note as a contrast to this that the The Swedish Publishers' Association is one of the harshest critics of The Pirate Bay and copyright reform. Probably because of illegal audio book downloads.
It can also be noted that the second vice president of the Pirate Party, Anna Troberg, is an author.
A friend of mine contacted some candidates for the European Parliament election and asked them about copyright. Several of the top candidates for the established parties answered that the purpose of copyright is not to create incentives or be for the public good but rather to guarantee the rights of creators to protect their work.
This seems to me to be the root of the problem today. People need to educate politicians about this and ask critical questions to highlight the contradictions that their views lead to. For example, by their logic we should either have eternal copyright or the time limitation should be viewed as a case of state confiscation of private property.
Even if the technical solution were to work flawlessly it might still not be good choice. Elections are about trust and if not everybody can understand exactly how the votes are counted and determine whether the system is suspectible to fraud then the technology can undermine that trust.
"apparently the laws in Sweden state that a gov't minister cannot influence ongoing litigation"
Btw. this isn't related only to ongoing litigation, but all administrative work of government agencies in individual cases. For example, the minister of justice may decide that fighting copyright infringement should be priority for the police, but he can absolutely not tell the police to do something about the Pirate Bay or any other specific site (the ministers just establish the framework). The former minister of justice has been accused of exactly that, but it never lead anywhere.
I don't believe the Cultural Minister face any legal danger in this case since she can always say that she just meant that the court's unanimous decision clears up the legal status in the general case and that this is what she welcomes. However she said in a radio interview that "There might have been those at the dinner who didn't share my opinion", so I'm not 100% sure that her statement won't lead to problems.
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe:
However, I don't see what that has to do with the Pirate Party votes. I interpret these votes as a protest against the new form of nanny state we see in many countries which is supposed to protect us against nonexistant (at least in Sweden) terrorism by gradually depriving us of our civil liberties. The PP support is also a vote against the corporativistic blending of the state and special interests.
Or as Rick Falkvinge, the president of the Pirate Party, recently said:
"We don't accept being wire-tapped/monitored by the state. People are beginning to understand that the state is not always good."
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wow
We won't know for sure until statisticians analyse the voting patterns in more detail I guess.
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wow
Anyway, a friend of mine mailed some candidates from other parties and asked how they viewed copyright. Several of these top condidates said that the purpose of copyright is not to promote culture or work for the common good but just to secure the (natural) rights of creators to protect their work. They also said that copyright protection should last for as long as a work has commercial value and said that Shakespeare's and Mozart's works are good examples of why we need a long copyright term (!)
So even though I just want a shortening of the copyright term I can't really vote for many other parties except the left parties and the Pirate Party. I don't want to be represented by someone who sees copyright as a natural right. Even if some of they say that they don't want to extend the copyright term these natural rights people will never be able to provide any arguments for why not to do it, which scares me.
The media has been trying to paint a picture of the Pirate Party as people who just want stuff for free. Since I've been following the blog debate here closely I know that that is completely false. The civil liberties is what most people are concerned about. That said, I'm sure that your description fits a part of the Pirate Party voters (but not the party representatives and those vocal in the debate).
On the post: Right To Free Press Doesn't Mean The Press Gets Unfettered Access
(TPB was clear about that critical media was also welcome, but they didn't want to spend their free time helping those who spread outright lies)
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe:
Don't you think a lot of newspapers will write about the party and that people will ask "who are these guys and what do they really want?". Don't you think political analysts will highlight the fact that maybe the public wasn't so forgiving about the wire-tapping laws as politicians believed (the Swedish prime minister said a year ago that everyone would benefit if there was less debate and in a later statement he implied that the issues would later be forgotten by voters). Hopefully we will get more debate around IP and civil rights issues. It should be noted that the german pirate party also got a relatively strong support. It's not impossible that they too get a seat in the next election. The Swedish green party almost doubled compared to last election and they have a very similar political program to that of the Pirate Party. The green group in the EU also grows considerably and they seem to understand these issues better than others.
Anyway, the most important thing is to raise awareness and get people to discuss these issues.
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe: Re: Re: Wow
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe: Will they keep it?
Really? So why did the European Parliament then recently support a copyright extension of 20 years? (and this was a compromise - the original proposal was for an extension of 45 years)
If the EP is against 3-strikes laws then why does the Telecoms Package mention "lawful content"?
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentRe: Wow
Like these people protesting outside the parliament against the wire-tapping laws you mean?
Come on! Of course the broad surveilance/wire-tapping laws has been a major factor in PP being able to gather this much support.
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentJust curious, what would you not agree with?
(if you are uncertain of PP's stance in some question feel free to ask)
I get the impression that the main purpose with writing something like that is to not get tainted by the "pirate" word even though you seem to support most of their ideas. For example I know that Chris Andersson was advised against using the pirate word because of the way he could be perceived if he did, even though he had no trouble with the word himself.
On the post: Swedish Pirate Party Wins
TwoOne Seat In EU ParliamentSince PP stole the whole media show they also managed to keep the xenophobic party Sverigedemokraterna out, which I'm very thankful for. In other countries those types of parties often use the EU election as a stepping point towards entering the national parliament. In a desperate attempt the leader of Sverigedemokraterna even wrote an article with the title: "I'm a file sharer". :D
I too hate the party name, but I also realize that they probably wouldn't have been were there are today without that name and all media attention that it attracted. Somebody once said: "I'd rather vote for a party with a silly name than a party with silly political ideas".
One can also note that some of the big parties misjudged the voters when they tried to talk about political issues that are not decided by the European Parliament in their election campaigns. At the same time both of the two biggest parties in Sweden (plus/minus some minor changes) support the laws making it possible for a civil authority to tap into all electronic communication crossing the borders of Sweden.
The Pirate Party's top candidate is a former anti-software patent EU activist for FFII. I hope he'll be the one who gets the seat in the parliament (the votes for individual candidates won't be finished until Wednesday).
On the post: Local Version Of China's Great Firewall Now Required On All PCs In China
France ahead of China this time around
On the post: You, Yes You, Are To Blame For Junk Stats
Just use another poll to analyse the first one
Enough said.
On the post: When You Can Hold Every Song Ever Recorded In Your Pocket... Does $1/Song Still Make Sense?
Online and offline file sharing
On the post: Prolific And Influential Swedish Author Throws Support Behind The Pirate Party
It is these violations of civil liberaties and the power shift from the public to the state that make many support the Pirate Party.
Btw. it's interesting to note as a contrast to this that the The Swedish Publishers' Association is one of the harshest critics of The Pirate Bay and copyright reform. Probably because of illegal audio book downloads.
It can also be noted that the second vice president of the Pirate Party, Anna Troberg, is an author.
On the post: The Next Big Copyright Battle? The 'Real-Time' Web
Purpose of copyright
This seems to me to be the root of the problem today. People need to educate politicians about this and ask critical questions to highlight the contradictions that their views lead to. For example, by their logic we should either have eternal copyright or the time limitation should be viewed as a case of state confiscation of private property.
On the post: Honolulu Completes Internet/Telephone-Only Election
Trust
On the post: Another Day, Another Bizarre Twist In The Pirate Bay Case
Laws
Btw. this isn't related only to ongoing litigation, but all administrative work of government agencies in individual cases. For example, the minister of justice may decide that fighting copyright infringement should be priority for the police, but he can absolutely not tell the police to do something about the Pirate Bay or any other specific site (the ministers just establish the framework). The former minister of justice has been accused of exactly that, but it never lead anywhere.
On the post: Another Day, Another Bizarre Twist In The Pirate Bay Case
On the post: Record Labels Attempt To Stretch Pirate Bay Ruling Rejected For Now
TorrentFreak coverage
http://torrentfreak.com/swedish-minister-takes-anti-pirate-bay-stance-090526/
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