But since it is to hot I will wait a couple of minutes so it cools down a bit.
How are you supposed to determine the temperature of the cheese or coffee without exposing yourself to a burn?
Regardless, most cities have codes that specify acceptable temperatures. If the nachos exceeded those temperatures (as the hot coffee did in that infamous lawsuit), then they are liable.
Personally, I believe that the key is enthusiastic consent. Right now, the standard says that silence is consent, which is really silly. Silence more often means coercion, fear, or downright unconsciousness.
Anyway, this consent may be in the form of her actually verbalizing, or in her ardent response to your advance. If she hasn't verbally confirmed her willingness and/or isn't ardently responding*, then you probably need to stop and confirm that she wants to have sex. If she's cognitively impaired in some way, like she's been drinking or taken some medication, then you probably need to verbally confirm that she wants to have sex.
(Of course, there are some women who have internalized the idea that they would be bad or slutty for wanting to be touched, but who want it nonetheless. You would annoy someone in that mindset by making them accountable for their own participation in touching or sex. However, that's what needs to happen, for your protection, at least.)
It's much harder for a rape culture to exist when everyone takes responsibility for what they want and clearly conveys that to their potential partners, and everyone respects everyone else's boundaries.
Anyway, I have no idea why someone would want to be with someone who didn't know what they wanted, or who wanted it to happen to them somehow without their cognitive participation. I'm bisexual and there's nothing sexier with either gender than someone who knows what they want, and isn't ashamed of it.
*Wiggling may not count as ardently responding.
Because I don't recall ever explicitly asking "do you consent to having sex with me"...
Try it sometime. Or, you know, a variation like 'Does x feel good? Do you like y?". If you already do that, then congrats! The people you're sleeping with are enthusiastically consenting. Way to not be a rapist. :)
...I don't consider myself a rapist.
One study of college-ages males showed that 1 in 8 of them admitted to intentionally and repeatedly targeting inebriated college-age women, because they would be unable to decline intercourse. Again, they repeatedly and intentionally found women that were too drunk to consent (or even stand up), and had sex with them. Yet they didn't consider themselves rapists, either. (More like opportunists, eh? Hurr hurr hurr. /sarcasm)
I'm not saying that you're a rapist. What I am saying is that rapists - especially pedophiles - don't always think of themselves as rapists, just like many abusers don't think of themselves as abusers.
"I only hit her when she needs it."
"I can quit anytime."
"That wasn't rape. I mean, she was really drunk but she didn't stop me, now did she?"
Or even, in the case of children:
"S/he wanted it! I love them! I would never hurt Susie/Johnny!"
Well, first, if a girl is sloppy drunk, someone should call Children's Services. And if the guy that she poorly decides to sleep with is an adult, then someone should call the police as well.
But you probably meant adult female and not adolescent female. :P
Anyway, all snark aside, to answer the obvious question, if you make a poor decision and consent to an act that you later regret, that's on you. This is true whether you are drunk or sober. I've seen people get extremely randy while drunk (and sober) and hang all over (and sometimes sexually assault) other party-goers and then go home with the first person who consents. In these cases, that person is obviously enthusiastically consenting to intercourse.
To answer the underlying question, a woman who has a drink (or seven) does not give up her bodily autonomy.
Part of the problem here comes from the social narrative that says 'No means no.'. This was a step in the right direction, but not nearly far enough, because if they're passed out, been slipped a roofie, etc., they can't say no, can they? And if you pull a drunk woman into a bedroom, remove her clothing, and have sex with her, and she hasn't said yes, then you've engaged in intercourse without her consent, and that's rape.
Another problem here is the view that a woman who drinks deserves what she gets afterward. This is akin to saying that a woman who wears a sexy outfit is 'asking for it'. Sure, the drunk/sexy woman might be asking for it, but that doesn't mean that she's asking anyone who might possibly want her.
Anyway, it doesn't matter that she was too 'sloppy drunk' or too afraid to say no, because the important part is that she didn't say yes.
To look at it a different way, what about a woman who takes a prescription opiate for hereditary migraine disease? If she wanders downstairs to the kitchen of her sorority and is pulled into a bedroom by a guy, stumbling and maybe giggling a bit and not very cognizant of what's going on because she's taken a prescription opiate, and then he removes her clothing and has sex with her without her consent and she's too messed up to fight back, is that rape?
The obvious connection between those two scenarios is that the word yes was absent from both. The underlying issue is that people are conditioned to want to punish the drunk woman for daring to take a drink/wear sexy clothing/go to a party/do anything that 'nice girls don't do'.
Women in our culture are taught to be careful about what they wear, how they wear it, how they carry themselves, where they walk, when they walk there, with whom they walk, whom they trust, what they do, where they do it, with whom they do it, what they drink, how much they drink, whether they make eye contact, if they're alone, if they're with a stranger, if they're in a group, if they're in a group of strangers, if it's dark, if the area is unfamiliar, if they're carrying something, how they carry it, what kind of shoes they're wearing in case they have to run, what kind of purse they carry, what jewelry they wear, what time it is, what street it is, what environment it is, how many people they sleep with, what kind of people they sleep with, who their friends are, to whom they give their number, who's around when the delivery guy comes, to get an apartment where they can see who's at the door before they can see they, to check before they open the door to the delivery guy, to own a dog or a dog-sound-making machine, to get a roommate, to take self-defense, to always be alert always pay attention always watch their back always be aware of their surroundings and never let their guard down for a moment lest they be sexually assaulted and if they are and didn't follow all the rules it's their fault.
And not the fault of the person who engaged in intercourse without hearing the word yes.
Yes. Someone who has taken a prescription opiate or has been slipped a roofie, for instance, would be temporarily cognitively disabled and unable to consent.
I'll type in the definition of rape later tonight, when I have more time.
Because the same myriad of changes that have supposedly made it easier to report rape in general, especially the empowerment of women, have also made it easier for rapists to rape women whom are not in a position to take advantage of said changes, such as women in the military, in high-powered jobs, etc. And, of course, for poor women, no real changes have been made.
Your citation shows an estimate of 8%, using two studies with different methodology. In addition, although the small part that you quoted tends to agree with you, the article itself is all over the map.
If you want to show me a statistic, then show me a statistic, DH, not a news article about competing statistics.
Again, let's not get silly.
His study summarized his conclusion that presently some 27% or rape charges are false. He did NOT take into account whether the reporter KNOWINGLY filed false charges...
This sentence doesn't tell you that his study was incredibly flawed?
Anyway, in McDowell's study, he only classified an allegation as 'proved' if 'the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence support the allegation so strongly that there really is no other logical conclusion'.
Of course, the only cases in which this would happen are the 'stranger pulls a woman from the bushes' type rape, which is the least common kind of rape, and completely exclude spouse rape, rape in which the victim was unable to consent, and so on. In addition, this study specifically looked at military cases, and is not a view of rape in the general population.
I saw the same statistic. It appears to come from a rape victims advocacy group. Certainly no one is unbiased, and I don't know for sure that that group is hedging the data in any way....but do we need to have a discussion on RIAA/MPAA piracy statistics here?
If anyone needs a lecture on MPAA statistics in this conversation, it's you. I mean, aside from the news article about a statistic instead of the actual study that provided it, you seem to have picked the oldest, most biased study available. And by biased, I mean by a proud misogynist with a flawed methodology. Of course, this may be the only study that agrees with you, and not me.
Probably because one involves a horrific violent crime and the other is essentially a matter of insurance fraud. Kind of a silly comparison.
No, it's not a silly comparison. Rape is the only crime in which we use the small number of completely unrelated false allegations to judge the suspects, rather than the evidence at hand. That has nothing to do with the severity of the crime, and everything to do with our culture.
And rape is not always, or even usually, a violent crime. Take, for instance, people whom are cognitively disabled, either temporarily or permanently, and people whom are raped by someone in a position of trust, like teachers, relatives, police officers, etc. These people don't fight back and some even 'consent', which makes it not 'rape-rape' in the minds of most folks. (Especially when the media steps in and report that the teacher, relative, officer, etc. is charged with 'having sex with' a minor, their student, their child, etc., as though you can be charged with 'having sex' and not 'rape'.)
Your characterization of rape as a violent crime is, in itself, a rape culture trope.
That was a garbage assertion and unbecoming of someone who generally argues well and reasonably.
I wrote out a statistic that is supported by evidence that you trashed before you even saw it. That, and your comments that followed it (An article about a statistic? Really?), have quite clearly shown your bias on this topic, which is unbecoming of someone who generally argues well and reasonably.
The statistics appear to show that rape is in massive decline.
The statistics do not show this.
While certainly not a disappeared problem, that coupled with what appear to be fairly clear socio-economic factors suggest that you were talking to the wrong people about it.
I'm sorry? I was unaware that there were 'right' or 'wrong' people to discuss things with. Can you expound on that idea, please? And be sure to explain exactly how answering someone's query can be 'wrong'.
Again, my sources could be wrong, but based on the multiple sources I'm seeing, particularly as compared across multiple countries that have similarly empowered female populations, I doubt it.
What 'multiple' sources? You have one article that discusses competition statistics, with zero methodology or links to the actual studies, and one old, military-specific study with flawed methodology.
I mean, technically, that's multiple, but it's sort of a silly characterization.
If you have multiple sources, link them and let's discuss. But honestly, please, and not from a defensive stance. No one has accused you of raping anyone, or of being personally responsible for the culture that we live in.
I went to see a movie yesterday and I discovered that not only is the Beiber movie in 3-D, but there was a serious line one hour before the movie even started.
But the pendulum is beginning to swing the other direction. Rape education has caused it become LESS undereported...
Citation needed.
...and some strange combination of influences (IMO: general empowerment of women, lawsuit happy citizens, women entering the workforce, etc.) has led to rape and/or sexual crimes to be a huge problem with regard to false allegations.
Again, citation needed.
The data I have suggests that false rape reports are less common than false car theft reports. And of course, no one looks at the rate of false car theft reports and uses it to judge victims of car theft.
These are the important bits. Whether or not poor kids get raped more than kids with money is really not very relevant to the original conversation, which had to do with the prevalence of rape, a rape culture that denies that prevalence, and why rape is not the same as any other crime.
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: paid Troll !!!!!!
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: missing for how long ???
That doesn't really matter when our current laws allow patent-holders to sue competitors into not competing when the patent runs out, now does it?
You are already benefiting...
No, I'm not. And I think I'd know better than you what medical inventions I benefit from, eh?
...other inventors accept the contract which is set forth in law.
So no one ever tries to game the system or patent things that should be patentable under the law or expand what should be patentable, huh?
We are entitled by law, pure and simple.
To patent breast cancer genes and hurt thousands of women? Weird. I never saw that law.
What you advocate...
I didn't advocate any changes.
...is not at all likely to do most people any good.
The current system is rife with problems, as well. In other words, it's not doing most people any good, and is actively hurting others.
You need to look at the numbers for all medical research and then explain how it will be funded using open source.
Why? I didn't advocate open source. I simply pointed out how silly your talking points were.
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Medical Inventors
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hey, is there an asshat blocker, like the script we have for Darryl?
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Hot =/= Burning
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
It kills me how little people who regularly eat at restaurants know about their local laws regarding restaurants.
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
How are you supposed to determine the temperature of the cheese or coffee without exposing yourself to a burn?
Regardless, most cities have codes that specify acceptable temperatures. If the nachos exceeded those temperatures (as the hot coffee did in that infamous lawsuit), then they are liable.
On the post: Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Obviously, you have no idea what 'burned' means. Hot things are hot, and sometimes touching them hurts but that doesn't make them 'burning'.
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Medical Inventors
Also, in case you didn't RTFC, he already volunteers, so he obviously doesn't have a problem with the concept of volunteerism.
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: missing for how long ???
Yes. That is the only chance I have at being able to afford whatever advances may come.
Are you confident that it will produce the kinds of advances which will benefit you?
No. But I am confident that current medical advances do not benefit me, either.
...the entitlement mindset of the community...
Pot, this is the kettle. You're black.
On the post: Ron Wyden Speaks Out Against COICA: We Shouldn't Toss Out The First Amendment Just To Go After A Few Bad Actors
Re:
I want a hoodie! With a zipper! :P
On the post: Ron Wyden Speaks Out Against COICA: We Shouldn't Toss Out The First Amendment Just To Go After A Few Bad Actors
Re: Re:
On the post: David Guetta: The Way To Beat 'Piracy' Is To Give Your Music Away Free
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Continued:
Personally, I believe that the key is enthusiastic consent. Right now, the standard says that silence is consent, which is really silly. Silence more often means coercion, fear, or downright unconsciousness.
Anyway, this consent may be in the form of her actually verbalizing, or in her ardent response to your advance. If she hasn't verbally confirmed her willingness and/or isn't ardently responding*, then you probably need to stop and confirm that she wants to have sex. If she's cognitively impaired in some way, like she's been drinking or taken some medication, then you probably need to verbally confirm that she wants to have sex.
What alot of men don't realize is how intimidating men can be, and how much society tells us wimmins to be nice, not to make a fuss, and - more alarmingly - not to fight back, because you'll be hurt less if you just let him finish. This quiet - and sometimes unintended - coercion is exactly why men should take five seconds to ask their partners to confirm their desire for intercourse.
(Of course, there are some women who have internalized the idea that they would be bad or slutty for wanting to be touched, but who want it nonetheless. You would annoy someone in that mindset by making them accountable for their own participation in touching or sex. However, that's what needs to happen, for your protection, at least.)
It's much harder for a rape culture to exist when everyone takes responsibility for what they want and clearly conveys that to their potential partners, and everyone respects everyone else's boundaries.
Anyway, I have no idea why someone would want to be with someone who didn't know what they wanted, or who wanted it to happen to them somehow without their cognitive participation. I'm bisexual and there's nothing sexier with either gender than someone who knows what they want, and isn't ashamed of it.
*Wiggling may not count as ardently responding.
Because I don't recall ever explicitly asking "do you consent to having sex with me"...
Try it sometime. Or, you know, a variation like 'Does x feel good? Do you like y?". If you already do that, then congrats! The people you're sleeping with are enthusiastically consenting. Way to not be a rapist. :)
...I don't consider myself a rapist.
One study of college-ages males showed that 1 in 8 of them admitted to intentionally and repeatedly targeting inebriated college-age women, because they would be unable to decline intercourse. Again, they repeatedly and intentionally found women that were too drunk to consent (or even stand up), and had sex with them. Yet they didn't consider themselves rapists, either. (More like opportunists, eh? Hurr hurr hurr. /sarcasm)
I'm not saying that you're a rapist. What I am saying is that rapists - especially pedophiles - don't always think of themselves as rapists, just like many abusers don't think of themselves as abusers.
"I only hit her when she needs it."
"I can quit anytime."
"That wasn't rape. I mean, she was really drunk but she didn't stop me, now did she?"
Or even, in the case of children:
"S/he wanted it! I love them! I would never hurt Susie/Johnny!"
On the post: David Guetta: The Way To Beat 'Piracy' Is To Give Your Music Away Free
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Continued:
But you probably meant adult female and not adolescent female. :P
Anyway, all snark aside, to answer the obvious question, if you make a poor decision and consent to an act that you later regret, that's on you. This is true whether you are drunk or sober. I've seen people get extremely randy while drunk (and sober) and hang all over (and sometimes sexually assault) other party-goers and then go home with the first person who consents. In these cases, that person is obviously enthusiastically consenting to intercourse.
To answer the underlying question, a woman who has a drink (or seven) does not give up her bodily autonomy.
Part of the problem here comes from the social narrative that says 'No means no.'. This was a step in the right direction, but not nearly far enough, because if they're passed out, been slipped a roofie, etc., they can't say no, can they? And if you pull a drunk woman into a bedroom, remove her clothing, and have sex with her, and she hasn't said yes, then you've engaged in intercourse without her consent, and that's rape.
Another problem here is the view that a woman who drinks deserves what she gets afterward. This is akin to saying that a woman who wears a sexy outfit is 'asking for it'. Sure, the drunk/sexy woman might be asking for it, but that doesn't mean that she's asking anyone who might possibly want her.
Anyway, it doesn't matter that she was too 'sloppy drunk' or too afraid to say no, because the important part is that she didn't say yes.
To look at it a different way, what about a woman who takes a prescription opiate for hereditary migraine disease? If she wanders downstairs to the kitchen of her sorority and is pulled into a bedroom by a guy, stumbling and maybe giggling a bit and not very cognizant of what's going on because she's taken a prescription opiate, and then he removes her clothing and has sex with her without her consent and she's too messed up to fight back, is that rape?
The obvious connection between those two scenarios is that the word yes was absent from both. The underlying issue is that people are conditioned to want to punish the drunk woman for daring to take a drink/wear sexy clothing/go to a party/do anything that 'nice girls don't do'.
Women in our culture are taught to be careful about what they wear, how they wear it, how they carry themselves, where they walk, when they walk there, with whom they walk, whom they trust, what they do, where they do it, with whom they do it, what they drink, how much they drink, whether they make eye contact, if they're alone, if they're with a stranger, if they're in a group, if they're in a group of strangers, if it's dark, if the area is unfamiliar, if they're carrying something, how they carry it, what kind of shoes they're wearing in case they have to run, what kind of purse they carry, what jewelry they wear, what time it is, what street it is, what environment it is, how many people they sleep with, what kind of people they sleep with, who their friends are, to whom they give their number, who's around when the delivery guy comes, to get an apartment where they can see who's at the door before they can see they, to check before they open the door to the delivery guy, to own a dog or a dog-sound-making machine, to get a roommate, to take self-defense, to always be alert always pay attention always watch their back always be aware of their surroundings and never let their guard down for a moment lest they be sexually assaulted and if they are and didn't follow all the rules it's their fault.
And not the fault of the person who engaged in intercourse without hearing the word yes.
And that, Joe, is a rape culture.
To recap: If she didn't say yes, it's rape.
On the post: David Guetta: The Way To Beat 'Piracy' Is To Give Your Music Away Free
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Continued:
I'll type in the definition of rape later tonight, when I have more time.
On the post: David Guetta: The Way To Beat 'Piracy' Is To Give Your Music Away Free
Re: Re: Re: Continued:
Yes, let's not.
Because the same myriad of changes that have supposedly made it easier to report rape in general, especially the empowerment of women, have also made it easier for rapists to rape women whom are not in a position to take advantage of said changes, such as women in the military, in high-powered jobs, etc. And, of course, for poor women, no real changes have been made.
Your citation shows an estimate of 8%, using two studies with different methodology. In addition, although the small part that you quoted tends to agree with you, the article itself is all over the map.
If you want to show me a statistic, then show me a statistic, DH, not a news article about competing statistics.
Again, let's not get silly.
His study summarized his conclusion that presently some 27% or rape charges are false. He did NOT take into account whether the reporter KNOWINGLY filed false charges...
This sentence doesn't tell you that his study was incredibly flawed?
Anyway, in McDowell's study, he only classified an allegation as 'proved' if 'the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence support the allegation so strongly that there really is no other logical conclusion'.
Of course, the only cases in which this would happen are the 'stranger pulls a woman from the bushes' type rape, which is the least common kind of rape, and completely exclude spouse rape, rape in which the victim was unable to consent, and so on. In addition, this study specifically looked at military cases, and is not a view of rape in the general population.
I saw the same statistic. It appears to come from a rape victims advocacy group. Certainly no one is unbiased, and I don't know for sure that that group is hedging the data in any way....but do we need to have a discussion on RIAA/MPAA piracy statistics here?
If anyone needs a lecture on MPAA statistics in this conversation, it's you. I mean, aside from the news article about a statistic instead of the actual study that provided it, you seem to have picked the oldest, most biased study available. And by biased, I mean by a proud misogynist with a flawed methodology. Of course, this may be the only study that agrees with you, and not me.
Probably because one involves a horrific violent crime and the other is essentially a matter of insurance fraud. Kind of a silly comparison.
No, it's not a silly comparison. Rape is the only crime in which we use the small number of completely unrelated false allegations to judge the suspects, rather than the evidence at hand. That has nothing to do with the severity of the crime, and everything to do with our culture.
And rape is not always, or even usually, a violent crime. Take, for instance, people whom are cognitively disabled, either temporarily or permanently, and people whom are raped by someone in a position of trust, like teachers, relatives, police officers, etc. These people don't fight back and some even 'consent', which makes it not 'rape-rape' in the minds of most folks. (Especially when the media steps in and report that the teacher, relative, officer, etc. is charged with 'having sex with' a minor, their student, their child, etc., as though you can be charged with 'having sex' and not 'rape'.)
Your characterization of rape as a violent crime is, in itself, a rape culture trope.
That was a garbage assertion and unbecoming of someone who generally argues well and reasonably.
I wrote out a statistic that is supported by evidence that you trashed before you even saw it. That, and your comments that followed it (An article about a statistic? Really?), have quite clearly shown your bias on this topic, which is unbecoming of someone who generally argues well and reasonably.
The statistics appear to show that rape is in massive decline.
The statistics do not show this.
While certainly not a disappeared problem, that coupled with what appear to be fairly clear socio-economic factors suggest that you were talking to the wrong people about it.
I'm sorry? I was unaware that there were 'right' or 'wrong' people to discuss things with. Can you expound on that idea, please? And be sure to explain exactly how answering someone's query can be 'wrong'.
Again, my sources could be wrong, but based on the multiple sources I'm seeing, particularly as compared across multiple countries that have similarly empowered female populations, I doubt it.
What 'multiple' sources? You have one article that discusses competition statistics, with zero methodology or links to the actual studies, and one old, military-specific study with flawed methodology.
I mean, technically, that's multiple, but it's sort of a silly characterization.
If you have multiple sources, link them and let's discuss. But honestly, please, and not from a defensive stance. No one has accused you of raping anyone, or of being personally responsible for the culture that we live in.
On the post: Vivaelamor's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: missing for how long ???
On the post: Screaming Justin Bieber Fans Using Camera Phones To Capture Snippets Of Movie Premiere Berated For Piracy
Re: It was more of a crime
On the post: David Guetta: The Way To Beat 'Piracy' Is To Give Your Music Away Free
Re: Continued:
Citation needed.
...and some strange combination of influences (IMO: general empowerment of women, lawsuit happy citizens, women entering the workforce, etc.) has led to rape and/or sexual crimes to be a huge problem with regard to false allegations.
Again, citation needed.
The data I have suggests that false rape reports are less common than false car theft reports. And of course, no one looks at the rate of false car theft reports and uses it to judge victims of car theft.
These are the important bits. Whether or not poor kids get raped more than kids with money is really not very relevant to the original conversation, which had to do with the prevalence of rape, a rape culture that denies that prevalence, and why rape is not the same as any other crime.
Anyway, this is a good read on rape culture.
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