You want them to accept piracy, except it is absolutely impossible to have real and true price discovery until there is some sort of standard piracy enforcement.
Did you know that Record Labels used to have to deal with the scourge of vinyl records breaking during shipment. I think, as I'm sure would you, that they should have dumped billions of dollars into fighting against physics. However, they took the coward's road and decided that breaking vinyl records was just a fact of life, and they actually planned on it happening. What a bunch of broadbrush wielding freetards, right?
A free-for-all internet full of illegal activity was never going to go on forever; it's silly to believe such a thing was going to continue ad infinitum in a society; that's not how societies function.
I know you're willfully ignorant, but I'm going to address you as if you aren't.
The problem isn't that the "internet [is] full of illegal activity". If that were true, governments would just shut it down and be done with it. The problem is that the internet is full of activity, and some of it is illegal. To complicate the matter, when dealing with copyright infringement, it is difficult to sort through the activity to find the illegal stuff without either breaking how the internet functions, or violating everyone's privacy. To make it even *more* difficult, even if you could see what everyone was doing on the internet, there is no difference between an infringing mp3 and a legal one.
Furthermore, the internet is filled with people who are much smarter than the people who would like to see the internet broken, when it comes to technology. Also, the people who want to break the internet are *far* outnumbered by the people who wish to see it remain as it is.
All this adds up to the simple fact that it is actually quite silly to believe that there will be any "taming" of the internet to support business models, outdated or otherwise.
It is impossible to take you seriously until you admit to that.
Yeah, I'm sure Mike is kept up at night because of the fact that some too-ashamed-of-her-own-opinion-to-put-any-identifier-on-it lady on the internet doesn't take him seriously.
You know, I really wish I knew more about you. I want to know what you have vested in this, and why you feel that giving ground on personal freedoms to support *any* business model is okay.
I'd *really* like to know why you don't realize that when "dirty freetard pirates" lose their personal freedoms, so do you.
Re: No, no, Mike. It's a clever ploy to get /more/ people to "infringe".
Bold words from some nobody on the internet, too afraid of being caught by her own words to even make an account.
Step2 may not pan out, but Mike is at least working towards alternate solutions. You have only come here to type your personal attacks on someone who its trying to find a working solution, usually without adding anything of substance to the conversation. Both you and Mike are working towards the same end: to help artists make money in the digital age.
I fail to understand why you feel like you have to fight him and try and belittle him because he suggests trying to set up Business that can shrug off the effects of piracy, or even use them to its advantage.
If you don't agree with his suggestions, make your own instead of attacking him personally. If you don't agree with his goal to help artists make more money in the digital age, why are you even here?
It's interesting to see you argue the correct answer, only to arrive at the incorrect answer, and then use that incorrect answer to justify the correct answer. :-P
You are correct, it does not matter how long it takes, or how much it costs, to bring a product to the market. This is called "overhead", and should not equate into the pricing of a product. If it takes Coke 37 years and billions of dolalrs to perfect their new Ultra-diet-zero fizzy Coke, that does not mean they should value each can at $400. It means that they should probably be in a different business, because they're not very good at this one.
Similarly, it doesn't matter how slowly it takes an author to write a book, when deciding how much to charge for it.
However, I agree that Amazon should pay this guy what he would have made-- the fact that his price was dropped to zero was to directly caused by a mistake in their algorithm, through no fault of the author's. The contract seems to say that Amazon can change the price of his book if he sells it cheaper somewhere else-- but as far as I can tell, he didn't, but the algorithm reacted as if he did.
They should have just ponied up what they owed him, because the money would have been a small price to pay to keep consumer good will.
If the legit seller has to sell under their cost just to compete with pirated versions of their own products, we have a failed business model that will shut them down quickly.
I don't know about you, but I never think about, when deciding if I can buy something, if the price is sustainable for the seller. It's not in my personal equation for price vs value. I can't imagine it is in anyone else's, but I can't say for sure.
There is no simple way to compete with someone selling your product at a fraction of the price because they have little or no overhead or costs to get the product to their market.
No one ever said it would be simple. That beiong said, the free market will drive prices to their marginal cost, so you really shouldn't factor in all that overhead you just factored in. Plus, I find the suggestion that a $5 (or whatever) DVD isn't profitable when sold in the quantity they are. Maybe not *as profitable* as selling it for $20, but still.
The real issue is that for decades there was a physical monopoly held by these businesses, so they didn't have to worry about the free markets. Those decades turned the businesses into fat, slow, encumbered sloths (figuratively speaking) and they no longer know how to survive in a market with competition. It sucks for them, I agree, but it doesn't change the fact.
Yes, piracy gets around all of that - but reflects mostly the customers desire not to pay for their scarce good (english content in Spain).
If you can't find a cheap way to get digital goods to Spain, then you're in big trouble. (Hint: how much did it cost you to send the post I'm replying to?) Now, it may be that there are so many contracts and rights licensed out to different countries that it becomes a thicket that makes it near impossible to get the digital good to spain, but is that the consumer's fault? Of course not. A greedy businessman relaized he could sell the same thing (rights to X) over and over again in different countries without doing any extra work, and now it's coming back to bite him. Oops? Better luck next time!
What I mean when I say " you brought onto yourself" is that Paul made the choice, for whatever reason, to move into a marketplace that doesn't supply him the content he desires.
.....?
I'm sorry, what? How do you know he wasn't born there? I'm going to ignore this statement because it makes my nose bleed. Moving on...
In the same manner, while I am working in Hong Kong, I don't expect to see many english movies for sale on every street corner.
Yes, but if you pirate an english movie in a market where there is no english movies being sold, you haven't hurt anyone. At all. The seller didn't lose a sale because he isn't offering anything for sale.
I accept that as a consequence of my choices in work and residence.
I'm sorry, I can't ignore this, nosebleeds be damned. Are you suggesting people should quit their job and move their entire lives so they can have better access to the movies they want? Really? You're just fucking with me, right?
Piracy may "solve" the consumers issue, but it also guts what little market may exist for that content in Spain, as an example.
In the free market, the consumer is king. This is the bottom line. If you don't please your potential customers, they will turn on you, without a care that it might destroy your business.
The shortage of english content may be in part caused by the fact that so few people pay for it, that it is hard to justify attempting to support a legal marketplace.
Perhaps. It's sort of a chicken or an egg thing, really. However, with digital goods, if a pirate can bring the product to a new market, then there's no good reason why a legit seller can't. Once the product is made in one market, it costs almost nothing to bring it to the entire world.
I meant to edit out "bad" from "bad business decision by the legitimate seller" because I forgot to take into account, as you said, local laws that may affect the seller, and things of that nature.
It's a pretty easy one Paul, should I type more slowly?
Not only does this comment add nothing to the conversation, it makes you look really, really stupid, because it makes no sense. We're trying to improve the level of discourse here. Please try and be civil.
THe consumer was willing to pay an amount X, but paid it to someone without the rights to make that sale, without the rights to the product. That means that a sale occurred, but the legit seller did not get the money. Therefore, you have a lost sale because the money went to a pirate.
You're absolutely right, there was a missed sales oppurtunity here, but the fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the legit seller. The consumer is willing to pay X. There is no reason why the X couldn't go to the legit seller, except that the legit seller did something to discourage the X from going to him. Maybe the legit seller wanted X+Y, which was outside the buyer's price point. Maybe, because of ongoing litigation, the legit seller has lost the goodwill of the buyer. Maybe the product in question is not available in the location of the buyer in a legitimate fashion. Maybe the product is not in the format the buyer requires. There could be any number of reasons why the money didn't go to the legit seller, but every single one of them can be traced back to a bad business decision by the legitimate seller.
I, for one, am glad we're finally at a point where we agree that it's not all about "getting things for free".
As for importing from abroad, you might want to consider that you appear to be an english person living in a Spanish country. How large do you really think the market would be for the DVD titles you have purchased abroad?
I'm going to ignore the fact that you seem to believe a human can only know one language at a time and answer your question with another question. If there is no legitmate market of English movies in Spain (or wherever) then is pirating (or buying from an unauthorized source) an English movie in Spain hurting anyone? If it's not hurting anyone, then why do you object to it?
Remember too, that almost every country has it's own laws regarding packaging, presentation, and so on, and many have restrictions on the number of titles in the non-native language that can be imported or offered for sale. You need to look at the whole picture before you blinding blame the content producers for your woes. Much of it appears to be what you brought onto yourself.
I'm going to ignore the fact that you just blamed someone in Spain for the entirety of the laws in Spain. I will agree to look at the whole picture with respect to why there are no English movies in Spain if you will look at the whole picture with respect to why piracy can be, and often is, not a such bad thing, and maybe even a good thing. Deal?
On the post: Believing Legacy Gatekeepers Will Fail To Adapt Is Not The Same As Wanting Them To Fail
Re: NASCAR
On the post: Believing Legacy Gatekeepers Will Fail To Adapt Is Not The Same As Wanting Them To Fail
Re: JUST AS I'VE SAID THEN: you're a corporatist!
Feel better, sport?
I've been here for some time, and I never thought Mike was against the labels, per se, but against their shitty decisions.
So, this was not a big revelation for me. What did you think we thought Mike was for?
On the post: Believing Legacy Gatekeepers Will Fail To Adapt Is Not The Same As Wanting Them To Fail
Re: Re: Re:
The telephone company. No, the highway. Wait, no, firearm salesmen.
I trust you understand my point.
On the post: And Then There Were Three: Bye, Bye EMI
Re: Re: Re: What about their stake holders
I can make copies of music all damn day long, so why should I pay someone else to do it for me?
On the post: And Then There Were Three: Bye, Bye EMI
Re: Re: Re: What about their stake holders
On the post: Believing Legacy Gatekeepers Will Fail To Adapt Is Not The Same As Wanting Them To Fail
Re:
You want them to accept piracy, except it is absolutely impossible to have real and true price discovery until there is some sort of standard piracy enforcement.
Did you know that Record Labels used to have to deal with the scourge of vinyl records breaking during shipment. I think, as I'm sure would you, that they should have dumped billions of dollars into fighting against physics. However, they took the coward's road and decided that breaking vinyl records was just a fact of life, and they actually planned on it happening. What a bunch of broadbrush wielding freetards, right?
A free-for-all internet full of illegal activity was never going to go on forever; it's silly to believe such a thing was going to continue ad infinitum in a society; that's not how societies function.
I know you're willfully ignorant, but I'm going to address you as if you aren't.
The problem isn't that the "internet [is] full of illegal activity". If that were true, governments would just shut it down and be done with it. The problem is that the internet is full of activity, and some of it is illegal. To complicate the matter, when dealing with copyright infringement, it is difficult to sort through the activity to find the illegal stuff without either breaking how the internet functions, or violating everyone's privacy. To make it even *more* difficult, even if you could see what everyone was doing on the internet, there is no difference between an infringing mp3 and a legal one.
Furthermore, the internet is filled with people who are much smarter than the people who would like to see the internet broken, when it comes to technology. Also, the people who want to break the internet are *far* outnumbered by the people who wish to see it remain as it is.
All this adds up to the simple fact that it is actually quite silly to believe that there will be any "taming" of the internet to support business models, outdated or otherwise.
It is impossible to take you seriously until you admit to that.
Yeah, I'm sure Mike is kept up at night because of the fact that some too-ashamed-of-her-own-opinion-to-put-any-identifier-on-it lady on the internet doesn't take him seriously.
On the post: And Then There Were Three: Bye, Bye EMI
Re: Re: Re: What about their stake holders
On the post: And Then There Were Three: Bye, Bye EMI
Re: Re: Re: *pops champagne*
I'd *really* like to know why you don't realize that when "dirty freetard pirates" lose their personal freedoms, so do you.
On the post: A Glimpse Of The Future Under SOPA: Warner Bros. Admits It Filed Many False Takedown Notices
Re: How about making the uploader actually responsible?
On the post: Magician Dinged For Copyright Infringement For Doing The Same Trick
fixed
On the post: Is Anthrax Trying To Become The New Metallica? Guitarist Wants To Kick 'Pirates' Off The Internet
Re: Re: Re: No, no, Mike. It's a clever ploy to get /more/ people to "infringe".
On the post: Is Anthrax Trying To Become The New Metallica? Guitarist Wants To Kick 'Pirates' Off The Internet
Re: No, no, Mike. It's a clever ploy to get /more/ people to "infringe".
Step2 may not pan out, but Mike is at least working towards alternate solutions. You have only come here to type your personal attacks on someone who its trying to find a working solution, usually without adding anything of substance to the conversation. Both you and Mike are working towards the same end: to help artists make money in the digital age.
I fail to understand why you feel like you have to fight him and try and belittle him because he suggests trying to set up Business that can shrug off the effects of piracy, or even use them to its advantage.
If you don't agree with his suggestions, make your own instead of attacking him personally. If you don't agree with his goal to help artists make more money in the digital age, why are you even here?
On the post: Hanging Out For Free Is Piracy
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Alas, some people see only what they want to see.
On the post: Hanging Out For Free Is Piracy
Re:
Did I still create nothing?
I needs me more protection for my art!!!11eleven
On the post: Are There Any Legal Issues If Amazon Accidentally Gives Away Thousands Of Your Ebooks For Free?
Re: Re:
You are correct, it does not matter how long it takes, or how much it costs, to bring a product to the market. This is called "overhead", and should not equate into the pricing of a product. If it takes Coke 37 years and billions of dolalrs to perfect their new Ultra-diet-zero fizzy Coke, that does not mean they should value each can at $400. It means that they should probably be in a different business, because they're not very good at this one.
Similarly, it doesn't matter how slowly it takes an author to write a book, when deciding how much to charge for it.
However, I agree that Amazon should pay this guy what he would have made-- the fact that his price was dropped to zero was to directly caused by a mistake in their algorithm, through no fault of the author's. The contract seems to say that Amazon can change the price of his book if he sells it cheaper somewhere else-- but as far as I can tell, he didn't, but the algorithm reacted as if he did.
They should have just ponied up what they owed him, because the money would have been a small price to pay to keep consumer good will.
On the post: Are There Any Legal Issues If Amazon Accidentally Gives Away Thousands Of Your Ebooks For Free?
Rogue site
On the post: Spanish Judge Gets It: Pirated Copies Not Necessarily Lost Sales, May Boost Purchases Later
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I don't know about you, but I never think about, when deciding if I can buy something, if the price is sustainable for the seller. It's not in my personal equation for price vs value. I can't imagine it is in anyone else's, but I can't say for sure.
There is no simple way to compete with someone selling your product at a fraction of the price because they have little or no overhead or costs to get the product to their market.
No one ever said it would be simple. That beiong said, the free market will drive prices to their marginal cost, so you really shouldn't factor in all that overhead you just factored in. Plus, I find the suggestion that a $5 (or whatever) DVD isn't profitable when sold in the quantity they are. Maybe not *as profitable* as selling it for $20, but still.
The real issue is that for decades there was a physical monopoly held by these businesses, so they didn't have to worry about the free markets. Those decades turned the businesses into fat, slow, encumbered sloths (figuratively speaking) and they no longer know how to survive in a market with competition. It sucks for them, I agree, but it doesn't change the fact.
Yes, piracy gets around all of that - but reflects mostly the customers desire not to pay for their scarce good (english content in Spain).
If you can't find a cheap way to get digital goods to Spain, then you're in big trouble. (Hint: how much did it cost you to send the post I'm replying to?) Now, it may be that there are so many contracts and rights licensed out to different countries that it becomes a thicket that makes it near impossible to get the digital good to spain, but is that the consumer's fault? Of course not. A greedy businessman relaized he could sell the same thing (rights to X) over and over again in different countries without doing any extra work, and now it's coming back to bite him. Oops? Better luck next time!
What I mean when I say " you brought onto yourself" is that Paul made the choice, for whatever reason, to move into a marketplace that doesn't supply him the content he desires.
.....?
I'm sorry, what? How do you know he wasn't born there? I'm going to ignore this statement because it makes my nose bleed. Moving on...
In the same manner, while I am working in Hong Kong, I don't expect to see many english movies for sale on every street corner.
Yes, but if you pirate an english movie in a market where there is no english movies being sold, you haven't hurt anyone. At all. The seller didn't lose a sale because he isn't offering anything for sale.
I accept that as a consequence of my choices in work and residence.
I'm sorry, I can't ignore this, nosebleeds be damned. Are you suggesting people should quit their job and move their entire lives so they can have better access to the movies they want? Really? You're just fucking with me, right?
Piracy may "solve" the consumers issue, but it also guts what little market may exist for that content in Spain, as an example.
In the free market, the consumer is king. This is the bottom line. If you don't please your potential customers, they will turn on you, without a care that it might destroy your business.
The shortage of english content may be in part caused by the fact that so few people pay for it, that it is hard to justify attempting to support a legal marketplace.
Perhaps. It's sort of a chicken or an egg thing, really. However, with digital goods, if a pirate can bring the product to a new market, then there's no good reason why a legit seller can't. Once the product is made in one market, it costs almost nothing to bring it to the entire world.
On the post: Spanish Judge Gets It: Pirated Copies Not Necessarily Lost Sales, May Boost Purchases Later
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oops. :)
On the post: Spanish Judge Gets It: Pirated Copies Not Necessarily Lost Sales, May Boost Purchases Later
Re: Re: Re:
Not only does this comment add nothing to the conversation, it makes you look really, really stupid, because it makes no sense. We're trying to improve the level of discourse here. Please try and be civil.
THe consumer was willing to pay an amount X, but paid it to someone without the rights to make that sale, without the rights to the product. That means that a sale occurred, but the legit seller did not get the money. Therefore, you have a lost sale because the money went to a pirate.
You're absolutely right, there was a missed sales oppurtunity here, but the fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the legit seller. The consumer is willing to pay X. There is no reason why the X couldn't go to the legit seller, except that the legit seller did something to discourage the X from going to him. Maybe the legit seller wanted X+Y, which was outside the buyer's price point. Maybe, because of ongoing litigation, the legit seller has lost the goodwill of the buyer. Maybe the product in question is not available in the location of the buyer in a legitimate fashion. Maybe the product is not in the format the buyer requires. There could be any number of reasons why the money didn't go to the legit seller, but every single one of them can be traced back to a bad business decision by the legitimate seller.
I, for one, am glad we're finally at a point where we agree that it's not all about "getting things for free".
As for importing from abroad, you might want to consider that you appear to be an english person living in a Spanish country. How large do you really think the market would be for the DVD titles you have purchased abroad?
I'm going to ignore the fact that you seem to believe a human can only know one language at a time and answer your question with another question. If there is no legitmate market of English movies in Spain (or wherever) then is pirating (or buying from an unauthorized source) an English movie in Spain hurting anyone? If it's not hurting anyone, then why do you object to it?
Remember too, that almost every country has it's own laws regarding packaging, presentation, and so on, and many have restrictions on the number of titles in the non-native language that can be imported or offered for sale. You need to look at the whole picture before you blinding blame the content producers for your woes. Much of it appears to be what you brought onto yourself.
I'm going to ignore the fact that you just blamed someone in Spain for the entirety of the laws in Spain. I will agree to look at the whole picture with respect to why there are no English movies in Spain if you will look at the whole picture with respect to why piracy can be, and often is, not a such bad thing, and maybe even a good thing. Deal?
On the post: Spanish Judge Gets It: Pirated Copies Not Necessarily Lost Sales, May Boost Purchases Later
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Literally a win-win.
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