I copy a product, do you still have it? Yes? then it's not stealing.....................
"I copy a product, do you still have it? Yes? then it's not stealing."
ME : The Law says different. It is infringement. I control copies of my music. You buy copies of Music.
The Beatles still got the acid studio tapes. to Abbey Road.
I have had to pay for , Abbey Road many times. first the vinyl that wor out (2x),
the tape got eatten in the deck (3X),
the CD (1X) , remastered CD (1X) ,,
and soon the "nano-mini-analog disc."
I paid -- and will pay --each time. And the Beatles still got their original copy.
I fail to see your logic.
if you downloaded it w/o paying LEGALLY , you have stole $$, IF you would have bought it otherwise-- if was not illegally available online.
If you would not have bought it anyway,why download it illegally ? clearly you want it . But not if it cost $$ ?
------------------------------
YOU :posting an entire NYT article in the comments section here, and no that's not fair use.
Me : Take it up with Mike. I thing he would agree with me , it is fair use.
If you claim it is NOT fair use, does not that fracture your arguments on copyright ?
-------------------------------------
You : equating copyright with racism (by adding Rosa Parks into the mix right here.
Me: both are Moral issues . both are legal issues.
Both involve circumvention of lawful civil rights.
I did not raise the "customer" analogy ,, some else did, and asked for an answer.
---------------
==================
"I just think we need to distinguish between those who disseminate the work of others (particularly for profit) and those who simply circumvent cost for personal use."
Memyself:
"You also touched on part of my reasoning behind why I feel downloading (???as opposed to uploading)??? should not be considered copyright infringement
. Infringement carries much higher penalties and frankly, doesn't really seem to apply to downloaders. " ???
"And no... I'm not attaching any moral value to the term "theft".
( why not ?)
I just think we need to distinguish between those who disseminate the work of others (particularly for profit) and those who simply circumvent cost for personal use."
--- ------------- ---------
ME:
You write : "And no... I'm not attaching any moral value to the term "theft".
May i ask why not ?
I know I agree with a lot of what you have written here in this thread ,, So I may i ask why you feel these ways ?
I am curious? And I think if we differ , we can have an honest respectful exchange.
Are your judgments personal ?
legal ?
practical ?
moral ?,
or Natural right-ed?
Like I said , i myself , put some of my songs up for folks to record ( my space ) ,
or even download for free or a very little cost at Amie Street.
But that is my CONTROL choice.
Do you think you would see things,, then you express above here in this post, differently is your ART was music?
"Their fans remain perhaps the last reliable — and dependably solvent — demographic in a music industry that has been hammered into fragments by the Internet. "
June 1, 2010
"Touchstones in Concert, Reweaving Harmonies"
NY Times
PERCHED on the arm of a couch in a hotel room here, James Taylor recalled the first time he heard Carole King sing “You’ve Got a Friend.”
They are performing more than two dozen of their individual hits, while providing harmony vocals and instrumental support for each other (Mr. Taylor on guitar, Ms. King on piano). The core of their band — the guitarist Danny Kortchmar, the bassist Leland Sklar and Russ Kunkel on drums — further rounds out the reunion. All of these musicians played with Ms. King and Mr. Taylor at the moment of their ascent four decades ago. Mr. Kortchmar introduced Mr. Taylor to Ms. King in 1969; the two men first played together in their teens.
Those deep connections have made the tour’s shows something like a Thanksgiving dinner in an Ann Beattie novel. “Tapestry” and Mr. Taylor’s albums “Sweet Baby James” (1970) and “Mudslide Slim and the Blue Horizon” (1971) are definitive boomer touchstones, and because they capture the collaborative apex of the singers’ interwoven careers, they account for many of the songs in the show.
point >>>>> +++++Their fans remain perhaps the last reliable — and dependably solvent — demographic in a music industry that has been hammered into fragments by the Internet. Since the tour arrived in the United States, they have been turning out in force, leaving sold-out arenas and million-dollar-plus grosses in their wake. +++++ >>>>>>“Softer rock doesn’t tend to do well in arenas,” said Gary Bongiovanni of Pollstar, a magazine that tracks the concert industry.
How many copyright infringers resort to violence when they download content?
"How many copyright infringers resort to violence when they download content?"
Me : FREEZE ! you are under arrest.
yes the little singular geek with keyboard ,
is not a real threat ,
and is usually is not prosecuted
( lets skip that discussion for now please.)
But Piracy on the mega-scale is criminal , and if there must be $$ to be made,, it will be in that racket.
WHY else would the mega-pirates ---,
---whether of trademarked fake goods, those bootlegged CDs sold on streets, Lyric Sites that do not pay royalties, or any other major Pirate Website ---
WHY else would the mega-pirates spend all their time and energy on their work , if they were not working to make money -- often outside the law and taxes.
I do not like giving $$$ to criminals exploding my ART.
Sadly, as I'm coming to know this site, your argument falls apart in two posts or less.
JAY : "Sadly, as I'm coming to know this site, your argument falls apart in two posts or less."
Ans : The VERY sad part here is that you fail to understand my points, which are taught and discussed in every Social Studies class from 3rd grade to post -PhD.
I have not said one thing here in this thread this is not considered either :
a] "Common knowledge" by any copyright judge, law proff, congress-person , or even a good honest lawyer.
b] "Common sense." ---- which is not just the title of Thomas Paine's famous work ( hoped you learned that in 6th grade) -- ,,
But "common sense" is a recognized legal principle invoked by Judges in "Courts of Law" everyday.
If you dispute that fact, please find any comment I have made on the Topic of , Copyright , Moral Rights , and Natural Rights, that is neither "common sense" or "common knowledge" and point it out to me back here.
-----
I am working online at at home today , so I will reply quick , most likely.
Re: Re: Re: Thanks for viewing the world in Black and White
"Try to be less retarded."
ANS :Lame comment . i am very educated, and can provide full reference to my academic credentials
=================
Murder: Are all the men and women in Iraq going to be tried for murder when they get back to the states? If I kill you in self defense, will I go to jail?
ANS ;; I said MURDER. Killing in war , or killing is self-defense , is not MURDER. take a law class.
======================
Theft: If a cop has a search warrant and takes my property against my will, can I have him arrested for theft?
ANS: again the situation , may or not be theft. there are unfortunately many cases where the police get bust for just such thing. (Happens in NYC where i live too often.)
------------------
""Piracy": Fair Use."
ANS : Piracy is never FAIR USE.
Fair use is Fair.
Ask any judge who rules on copyright. Ask any congressman. Ask your Pol-sci or Civil Liberties professor.
-----------------------------------------
Copyright is NOT a moral right, no matter how you'd like it to be.
I challenge you to back that statement up.
Ayn Rand , Thomas Jefferson , James Madison, John Locke , and more ,, ALL disagree you that: "Copyright is NOT a moral right, no matter how you'd like it to be."
Masnick has never said any of those things. Nobody on this site has said any of those things.
KARL :Masnick has never said any of those things. Nobody on this site has said any of those things.
ME (repeating):
MIKE /paraphase:
This law is bad ,, it stops Circumvention !! This law favors copyright holders !!! This law hurts my biz , and my friends biz. My economic needs to do biz , trump you moral right to copyright enforcement.
-------------------------------
Is this the same Karl , who has been here for 3 weeks?
Go back and read Mikes posts, and replies to me directly -- what few of them they are-- here the last few weeks
Mike is always saying his biz need trumps my copy RIGHTs.
He Is always saying , fighting Piracy , is silly , stupid , , or today "Quixotic" .
--------
Mike is wrong , by every standard of moral and academic reason.
And either::
Mike knows it -- meaning he is a subversive liar.
Or Mike just does not get it .
Which is why we have laws and courts of justice.
To protect Artist's from Pirate Mike.
there is no in between
=====================================
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
But you can't cover a song under fair use. That would be "piracy."
i was rally disappointed too,,
As I REALLY REALLY wanted mick and Kieth to sue me ,
REALLY. as i stated before , old musicians trick, old as the delta blues , rip off the master , and get him too notice you.
Kieth stole it all from Chuck Berry anyway. Chuck won't sue me either.
Kieth , you slipped though again,, but i am after you, my friend.
Next i am doing "dead flowers" strait ,, and i hope you sue !!!
We will do coffee, ( with extras), and settle out of court.
i need help with open tuning.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Re: Re: Re: Copying: It's in our DNA!
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
I copy a product, do you still have it? Yes? then it's not stealing.....................
ME : The Law says different. It is infringement. I control copies of my music. You buy copies of Music.
The Beatles still got the acid studio tapes. to Abbey Road.
I have had to pay for , Abbey Road many times. first the vinyl that wor out (2x),
the tape got eatten in the deck (3X),
the CD (1X) , remastered CD (1X) ,,
and soon the "nano-mini-analog disc."
I paid -- and will pay --each time. And the Beatles still got their original copy.
I fail to see your logic.
if you downloaded it w/o paying LEGALLY , you have stole $$, IF you would have bought it otherwise-- if was not illegally available online.
If you would not have bought it anyway,why download it illegally ? clearly you want it . But not if it cost $$ ?
------------------------------
YOU :posting an entire NYT article in the comments section here, and no that's not fair use.
Me : Take it up with Mike. I thing he would agree with me , it is fair use.
If you claim it is NOT fair use, does not that fracture your arguments on copyright ?
-------------------------------------
You : equating copyright with racism (by adding Rosa Parks into the mix right here.
Me: both are Moral issues . both are legal issues.
Both involve circumvention of lawful civil rights.
I did not raise the "customer" analogy ,, some else did, and asked for an answer.
---------------
==================
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
"I just think we need to distinguish between those who disseminate the work of others (particularly for profit) and those who simply circumvent cost for personal use."
"You also touched on part of my reasoning behind why I feel downloading (???as opposed to uploading)??? should not be considered copyright infringement
. Infringement carries much higher penalties and frankly, doesn't really seem to apply to downloaders. " ???
"And no... I'm not attaching any moral value to the term "theft".
( why not ?)
I just think we need to distinguish between those who disseminate the work of others (particularly for profit) and those who simply circumvent cost for personal use."
--- ------------- ---------
ME:
You write : "And no... I'm not attaching any moral value to the term "theft".
May i ask why not ?
I know I agree with a lot of what you have written here in this thread ,, So I may i ask why you feel these ways ?
I am curious? And I think if we differ , we can have an honest respectful exchange.
Are your judgments personal ?
legal ?
practical ?
moral ?,
or Natural right-ed?
Like I said , i myself , put some of my songs up for folks to record ( my space ) ,
or even download for free or a very little cost at Amie Street.
But that is my CONTROL choice.
Do you think you would see things,, then you express above here in this post, differently is your ART was music?
thanks for taking the time.
I know these threads , can be a bit exhausting
if you try to answer everybody's point
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
"Their fans remain perhaps the last reliable — and dependably solvent — demographic in a music industry that has been hammered into fragments by the Internet. "
"Touchstones in Concert, Reweaving Harmonies"
NY Times
By ANTHONY DeCURTIS
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/arts/music/06taylor.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
E AST PALO ALTO, Calif.
PERCHED on the arm of a couch in a hotel room here, James Taylor recalled the first time he heard Carole King sing “You’ve Got a Friend.”
They are performing more than two dozen of their individual hits, while providing harmony vocals and instrumental support for each other (Mr. Taylor on guitar, Ms. King on piano). The core of their band — the guitarist Danny Kortchmar, the bassist Leland Sklar and Russ Kunkel on drums — further rounds out the reunion. All of these musicians played with Ms. King and Mr. Taylor at the moment of their ascent four decades ago. Mr. Kortchmar introduced Mr. Taylor to Ms. King in 1969; the two men first played together in their teens.
Those deep connections have made the tour’s shows something like a Thanksgiving dinner in an Ann Beattie novel. “Tapestry” and Mr. Taylor’s albums “Sweet Baby James” (1970) and “Mudslide Slim and the Blue Horizon” (1971) are definitive boomer touchstones, and because they capture the collaborative apex of the singers’ interwoven careers, they account for many of the songs in the show.
point >>>>> +++++Their fans remain perhaps the last reliable — and dependably solvent — demographic in a music industry that has been hammered into fragments by the Internet. Since the tour arrived in the United States, they have been turning out in force, leaving sold-out arenas and million-dollar-plus grosses in their wake. +++++ >>>>>>“Softer rock doesn’t tend to do well in arenas,” said Gary Bongiovanni of Pollstar, a magazine that tracks the concert industry.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Look piracy as it stands now, yes it's illegal, but you can't prove that it hurts your bottom line.
ANS: Prove. No,
BUT $$$$$ is not the point.
It is asserting control over --unfair or poor faith-ed , or w/o permission -- use !!
This a principle well embedded in ART and Culture.
Artist Control.
An Artist controls any use -- beside legally defined fair use --
of their ART.
I fight pirates on that principle mainly.
But , clearly if there is $$ to be recovered , i want that too.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
I do not like giving $$$ to criminals exploding my ART
I do not like giving $$$ to criminals "exploiting" my ART.
------------
but you know
it works either way :)
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
How many copyright infringers resort to violence when they download content?
Me : FREEZE ! you are under arrest.
yes the little singular geek with keyboard ,
is not a real threat ,
and is usually is not prosecuted
( lets skip that discussion for now please.)
But Piracy on the mega-scale is criminal , and if there must be $$ to be made,, it will be in that racket.
WHY else would the mega-pirates ---,
---whether of trademarked fake goods, those bootlegged CDs sold on streets, Lyric Sites that do not pay royalties, or any other major Pirate Website ---
WHY else would the mega-pirates spend all their time and energy on their work , if they were not working to make money -- often outside the law and taxes.
I do not like giving $$$ to criminals exploding my ART.
Where is my lawyer? We are going to court.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Copying: It's in our DNA!
Can you copyright your DNA ?
I am asking .
It has been in the news lately a bit ,
Search , and get back to me.
----------------
So a guitar player walks into a bar
with a little Monkey on his head.
the bar owner says:
hey, where did you get that ?!?!
And the monkey says,
Greenwich Village NYC!
there are loads of them !
-----------------
a pirate geek
goes to the same bar ,
with a little monkey on his head
the bar owner asks him:
well, where did you get that?
and the monkey says :
The apple store , they all over the place !!!
And get this,,
this geek says he is not copyrighted !
He is now my property to do as I wish.
I can clone him a million times ,
and make slaves for me.
AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD !!!!
==============
==========
=========
====
=
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Copyright laws do nothing to balance this.
ME: Very interesting point.
Really.
Please do explain more.
Now i do know that sculptures have different protections than songs.
It is posted somewhere in this thread by me.
If you can not find it ,,Google around , "copyrights and sculptures" & you will.
An Original Sculpture cannot be "changed" by law,
the museum cannot put arms on the Venus De Milo.
www.venusdemilo.com/
Yet, I can parody the Rolling stones on my ukulele-- (Honky Tonk Jews--).
and it is Totally fair use.
http://www.myspace.com/radamhalperin .
------------
It this what you meant by:
"...some froms of art are more protected than other, equally valid, forms of art. Copyright laws do nothing to balance this."
????
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Buggs Bunny and Daffy Duck on copy right: from the Movie "Space Jam"
Enjoy !!
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Sadly, as I'm coming to know this site, your argument falls apart in two posts or less.
Ans : The VERY sad part here is that you fail to understand my points, which are taught and discussed in every Social Studies class from 3rd grade to post -PhD.
I have not said one thing here in this thread this is not considered either :
a] "Common knowledge" by any copyright judge, law proff, congress-person , or even a good honest lawyer.
b] "Common sense." ---- which is not just the title of Thomas Paine's famous work ( hoped you learned that in 6th grade) -- ,,
But "common sense" is a recognized legal principle invoked by Judges in "Courts of Law" everyday.
If you dispute that fact, please find any comment I have made on the Topic of , Copyright , Moral Rights , and Natural Rights, that is neither "common sense" or "common knowledge" and point it out to me back here.
-----
I am working online at at home today , so I will reply quick , most likely.
=========================
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Re: Re: Re: Thanks for viewing the world in Black and White
ANS :Lame comment . i am very educated, and can provide full reference to my academic credentials
=================
Murder: Are all the men and women in Iraq going to be tried for murder when they get back to the states? If I kill you in self defense, will I go to jail?
ANS ;; I said MURDER. Killing in war , or killing is self-defense , is not MURDER. take a law class.
======================
Theft: If a cop has a search warrant and takes my property against my will, can I have him arrested for theft?
ANS: again the situation , may or not be theft. there are unfortunately many cases where the police get bust for just such thing. (Happens in NYC where i live too often.)
------------------
""Piracy": Fair Use."
ANS : Piracy is never FAIR USE.
Fair use is Fair.
Ask any judge who rules on copyright. Ask any congressman. Ask your Pol-sci or Civil Liberties professor.
-----------------------------------------
who is retarded now
some things are black and white.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Obviously, copyright does not protect individual artists from corporate exploitation.
It does. If the Artist does not have a good lawyer it is their fault. Not the Law's Fault.
Not the system's fault.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Re: Thanks for viewing the world in Black and White
Some things in law are Black and White with no Gray.
Murder , Theft and Piracy among them.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Copyright is NOT a moral right, no matter how you'd like it to be.
Ayn Rand , Thomas Jefferson , James Madison, John Locke , and more ,, ALL disagree you that: "Copyright is NOT a moral right, no matter how you'd like it to be."
I will wait for your response.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
The onus is on the criminal (colored people, distillers, women) to reform themselves..
Esp if you hold by Natural Law.
If you do not hold by Natural Law , is is faulty Pirate Logic , by Moral Law.
If you do not gold by Moral Law, you are a hazard to society.
( except for the distillers of booze, where there are "serious civil liberties issues" according to all "law philosophy-s")
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Masnick has never said any of those things. Nobody on this site has said any of those things.
ME (repeating):
MIKE /paraphase:
This law is bad ,, it stops Circumvention !! This law favors copyright holders !!! This law hurts my biz , and my friends biz. My economic needs to do biz , trump you moral right to copyright enforcement.
-------------------------------
Is this the same Karl , who has been here for 3 weeks?
Go back and read Mikes posts, and replies to me directly -- what few of them they are-- here the last few weeks
Mike is always saying his biz need trumps my copy RIGHTs.
He Is always saying , fighting Piracy , is silly , stupid , , or today "Quixotic" .
--------
Mike is wrong , by every standard of moral and academic reason.
And either::
Mike knows it -- meaning he is a subversive liar.
Or Mike just does not get it .
Which is why we have laws and courts of justice.
To protect Artist's from Pirate Mike.
there is no in between
=====================================
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
If I refuse to seat you in my restaurant........................
(I eat at home usually.
I am a poor musician.
can't eat out much )
---------------
But , A pirate criminal ,, I can refuse to serve. ( It is not racism.)
esp , if I think , he will steal sugar packets and silverware, and then not tip.
On the post: Four Years In, How Successful Has Hollywood's Attack On The Pirate Bay Been?
Re: Re: Was the best way! that was prior to the Internet of course. Now to put it quite simply " Either you share on the web , or you get out of it "
IT'S A TRAP!
----
thank you Karl.
that is a high compliment.
Seriously.
think about it .
Next >>