RIM Tells India That It Simply Cannot Snoop On Blackberry Email

from the so-sorry dept

Tue, May 27th 2008 10:26am — Mike Masnick

A few months back, we noted that the Indian government was demanding that RIM let government officials snoop on emails sent via Blackberry devices, or they would be banned in India. I'm not sure why it took so long for RIM to point this out, but it finally has explained to the government the nature of its encryption scheme which means that RIM itself cannot decrypt messages sent via the network, since they're based on an encryption key set up by the end user. It's not clear how India is going to respond, though the article notes the two sides are "talking."

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Filed Under: blackberry, email, encryption, india, snooping
Companies: rim

33 Comments

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shanoboy (profile), 27 May 2008 @ 10:43am

duh!
Rim should have gave India all the permissions they wanted to intercept traffic then when the Indian Gov't came back asking why they couldn't read it, just replied

"Sorry we figured you guys were smart enough to figure that part out on your own!"

No wonder tech support it so poor! It's all outsourced to INDIA!
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- JS Beckerist, 27 May 2008 @ 2:36pm
  
  Re: duh!
  I know you're mostly kidding, but seriously YOU try learning a second language. No, scrap that, the TECHNICAL side of a second language. Got that? Ok now, here's a book in that language of software you've never used. Read the whole thing yet? Alright now you're going to have 30 to 100 people a day calling you up, yelling at you for something you don't have ANYTHING to do with and saying that they want to speak to someone named Joe...
  
  ...not an easy job my friend. It's why they get paid the "big bucks" to do it, even though it's still peanuts compared to us over here.
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Ima Fish, 27 May 2008 @ 10:43am

Why can't RIM give India the same back doors that the FBI, CIA, and Homeland Security use.
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- Duh, 27 May 2008 @ 10:46am
  
  Re:
  Because they don't live in the delusional realm that you do.
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  - Ima Fish, 27 May 2008 @ 11:13am
    
    Re: Re:
    If you honestly believe that RIM does not have a back door to access its own system you're infinitely more delusional than I am.
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    - TheTraveler, 27 May 2008 @ 12:37pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      You should NEVER create a back door to your own system, that is just about the most unintelligent thing you could do to yourself. You might as well tie the noose your own neck! If RIM would have created a back door it would have been cracked LONG before now! So unless you know something the rest of us don’t about hacking then stop your idiocy! You’re about as useless as broken clock in a dark room being viewed by a blind person that doesn’t know how to tell time!!
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    - Jim, 24 Jan 2009 @ 10:37pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      I know. There is no BACK DOOR. Believe me. I know.
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- Evil Mike, 27 May 2008 @ 11:09am
  
  Re:
  Everybody know the NSA does all the decrypting for the CIA and FBI and the Fatherland Security. duh.
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- Jim, 24 Jan 2009 @ 10:35pm
  
  Re: backdoor
  Because it does not exist. There is not way to "get into" the BlackBerry.
  
  I know.
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JB, 27 May 2008 @ 11:05am

Sender / Receiver
The government could still see the sender and recipient of each message. This can be pretty useful even if they don't know what the message says, for example see all of the people regularly communicating with a known criminal.
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- Anonymous Coward, 27 May 2008 @ 11:12am
  
  Re: Sender / Receiver
  All the better for implicating innocent persons who are unknowingly communicating with a criminal.
  
  What if the body of the message is "leave me alone you criminal?"
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- Jim, 24 Jan 2009 @ 10:39pm
  
  Re: Sender / Receiver
  Actually they can't. It is encrypted as well.
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Shohat, 27 May 2008 @ 11:20am

RIM has a way
The smartest thing RIM could do is issue that statement publically, and supply India with the needed decryption tools in private.
Win-Win.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 May 2008 @ 11:24am

Encryption backdoor
It is incredibly rare for (maybe never?) for mainstream encryption to have a purposeful backdoor. Why? Because backdoors are almost always found by hackers. When that happens the entire scheme is rendered useless and the company that made it has a very damaged reputation. So why create something at your own cost that you would never use and is a huge liability?
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- Tony, 27 May 2008 @ 12:19pm
  
  Re: Encryption backdoor
  Because it's all part of the conspiracy. You should know better than to talk about it publicly like this.
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- Anonymous Coward, 27 May 2008 @ 12:36pm
  
  Re: Encryption backdoor
  agreed
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- EXrider, 27 May 2008 @ 1:00pm
  
  Re: Encryption backdoor
  Oh, you mean like Microsoft and the NSAKEY debacle? Nobody uses their software anymore. Do they!?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 May 2008 @ 11:49am

Or walk into Mordor, for that matter.
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rishi, 27 May 2008 @ 11:59am

It is impractical to want access to all emails
The Indian government wants access to all RIM mails on the premise that terrorists may use the network to send messages.

Somebody should tell them about steganography.
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Scote, 27 May 2008 @ 12:48pm

RIM has said it has no backdoor to **enterprise** email. Not all RIM customers are enterprise customers.
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- Jim, 24 Jan 2009 @ 10:45pm
  
  Re:
  No. There is no back door. End of story. It does not exist. Stop your "conspiracy" thinking. Enterprise or ISP. There is no back door.
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Jake, 27 May 2008 @ 1:11pm

I can kind of see points on both sides here; it should not be done lightly or without strict judicial oversight, but occasionally communications interception is a necessary evil in order to protect life and property. I can understand the Indian government wanting to have the option.
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HK, 27 May 2008 @ 1:37pm

Jake, if that statement had an ounce of humour I would have thought you were being sarcastic.

But you must be speaking out of your A$$, are you serious!

Ever heard of Privacy!
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- Jake, 27 May 2008 @ 4:53pm
  
  Re:
  Yes, I have, and I value mine. The privacy of someone that my local law enforcement are really sure is going to stuff twenty pounds of dynamite up his jumper and set it off in a public place -sure enough that they don't mind giving sworn testimony to that effect and quite possibly getting fired if they're wrong- I'm somewhat less concerned about.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 27 May 2008 @ 1:42pm

How They Set Up Encryption
I remember my first Blackberry in 1999. The setup software asked me to generate my own encryption key. But it wasn't something low-grade like a 6-character password. They ask you to wiggle and move your mouse around the screen for about 10 seconds. Your random mouse movements generate the key, and the key is stored in your device.

That, to me, seems like pretty good privacy.

Of course, the key is also sent to RIM so they can decrypt your mail at their end (if you have Blackberry Internet Edition). One would assume that with the Blackberry Server Solution, the key is only stored on your device, and in your on-premise server, offering you end-to-end wireless security between your enterprise and your Blackberry. However, that does not encrypt the messages from your enterprise Exchange server to your co-correspondents and back.

But my main point is that that mouse-move thing was pretty cool. Much better than your dog's name or your anniversary.
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- Jim, 24 Jan 2009 @ 10:42pm
  
  Re: How They Set Up Encryption
  Well to tell you the truth. NO. RIM does not have the key. If you understood how the system works you would know that the key is not needed and RIM does not have it.
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megacorp, 27 May 2008 @ 1:43pm

Microsoft did it, why wouldn't RIM?
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- A. L. Flanagan, 27 May 2008 @ 2:14pm
  
  Re: Microsoft
  "megacorp on May 27th, 2008 @ 1:43pm: Microsoft did it, why wouldn't RIM?"
  Because they're smarter than Microsoft? It's not exactly hard.
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- Q, 28 May 2008 @ 4:51am
  
  Re:
  and thats why Microsoft is up a shit creek with out a paddle!
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hwall, 27 May 2008 @ 2:21pm

India and RIM
Sounds like India is trying to figure out how to do a RIM job.
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rishi, 30 May 2008 @ 2:45am

could you explain this
The Indian government is using the argument that

It is also learnt that the DoT has rejected RIM’s argument that it did not possess the encryption keys. Instead, the DoT has pointed out that since RIM’s BlackBerry service meets the provisions of US CALEA (Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, 1994) regulations, all BlackBerry data traffic originating on Indian mobile networks can be tracked electronically by CALEA sleuths in the Federal Communications Commission.

(DoT being the Indian Department of Telecom.)

Is this argument valid?
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rishi, 30 May 2008 @ 2:46am

link
the link is http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Open_code_or_shut_shop_DoT_tells_RIM/rssarticleshow/3084129.cms
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decrypt, 22 Sep 2008 @ 12:03pm

Indian government cracked the code!
Just in.... Indian government cracked the code! http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News_by_Industry/At_last_govt_cracks_BlackBerry_code/ articleshow/3510719.cms
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