Boston Trolley Accident Sadly Shows, Again, That Cell Phone Bans Alone Don't Really Work
from the accountability? dept
The driver of a Boston trolley that caused a crash that injured about 50 people was apparently sending text messages at the time of the accident, despite a transit authority ban on such activity. This latest incident comes after the horrible crash in California last year that killed scores of people, in which the train conductor was said to be texting, and highlights how bans like this, whether covering the drivers of trains or cars, really aren't effective. A reasonably intelligent person driving a trolley or other mass-transit vehicle doesn't need a ban to tell them that texting while driving isn't such a good idea. If they aren't smart enough to figure that out, they're probably just going to ignore the ban anyway, like this driver in Boston, undermining the point of the rule. Again, it goes back to personal responsibility, something that politicians and rulemakers won't be able to conjure up out of legislation, try as they might. This isn't to say that people like trolley drivers should be allowed to text while working -- far from it. But to think that putting a ban into place will, in itself, simply and easily eliminate the problem and make everybody safer is misguided.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Not to be on the wrong side, but
Sounds stupid, but it makes a big difference in deciding what happens to the accident causers and the poor bastards that suffer because of their stupidity.
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Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
We would literally have no goverment left. You sir, are advocating anarchy.
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
Your idea is appalling. I hope you get this law made into a bill, and I hope it passes. Then, I hope you make a stupid mistake and end up with a Class A Felony on your hands.
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
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Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
It's just there so we can fry the psycho's ass.
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Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
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Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
Making it illegal to be distracted? People in the passenger's seat can be distracting. 15 flashing construction signs can be distracting. Having a shitty day at work can be distracting.
You can't outlaw being distracted.
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Re: Re: Not to be on the wrong side, but
They should just ban cell phones in the DMV.
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Seriously?
The rule allows the transit authority to easily fire a driver who is too stupid to realize he shouldn't text instead of paying attention. How can that be bad?
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Re: Seriously?
Noah,
He was saying, and I agree, that people are making big about the rule saying they should not text while driving as if the rule would magically make everyone stop being a moron. Rules don't do that and never will. He is saying that people need to use common sense and personal responsibility - forgoing the need for rules like this one that simply state the obvious.
Please, in the future, read the actual content and not read it with the idea of "What can I pick out of this to be offended about?". No sane person would take offense to this story (Not that you are a sane person or anything, so don't be offended that I called you sane - I did not.) and I think he has a very valid and well-spoken point.
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Re: Re: Seriously?
We can't have business where everything is "common sense". You have to have rules about appropriate clothing, safety rules, etc. For example, the people who die most in on-the-job accidents are new, young employees. Common sense is mostly earned through stupid mistakes. Are you seriously advocating that the transit get rid of all rules and just have a Darwinian "common sense" free-for-all? You can take that train, and I'll take the train run by the company that has clear training and safety rules.
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Re: Seriously?
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Re: Seriously?
There's always going to be some margin of people who violate the rules. No big deal.
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Re: Seriously?
What he IS criticizing is the fact that people don't seem to understand that laws can't keep people from being stupid. Yes, the law provides accountability, but that is still a long way away from preventing people from making stupid mistakes. I dare say (and I think everyone can agree) that no law will ever stop people from being idiots. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Re: Seriously?
you're an idiot.
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Great story, Carlo!
What needs to happen is that people need to be punished for things like this as an example to those that might do it in the future. Adults are exactly like kids where this is concerned. If there is no punishment to fear, then they will do it regardless of any rule to the contrary. Look at speed limits. Those are cheerfully ignored more and more every day. Start enforcing the speed laws people start obeying them. Let up again and the speed goes back up. With no morals and no personal responsibility in the youth of today, I'm not shocked that this type of thing amazes them.
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Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
Without it, the driver will claim "It was an accident! No rule says I can't text and drive at the same time!" With his union no doubt backing him, management would maybe only be able to suspend him (with pay, natch) pending an investigation. And since he did not break any rules, it's back on the road for Textee McGee.
With the ban in place, the company has some administrative ammo.
The ban aside, these jokers should be charge with 2nd degree murder and assault for every single injury and death. This is more than careless idiocy: bus drivers have a duty to protect. Safety of passengers is part of their job and they are trained for that. This would be like a lifeguard letting someone drown because he was texting.
The ban might not work, but let's start seeing these drivers doing 10-15 years in the slammer. Maybe that'll have an effect.
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Re: Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
If I hit someone while I'm driving drunk, I get slapped with assault with a deadly weapon or possibly manslaughter. It doesn't even matter if the guy hit was trying to commit suicide.
The phrase "You should pay attention to what your doing at all times" should cover everything including texting. There doesn't need to be another law for it.
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Re: Re: Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
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Re: Re: Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
OH WAIT! That's ridiculous, because it would imply that the entire premise of the article is DEAD WRONG and bans on dangerous behavior actually can prevent or at least reduce the instances of deadly outcomes.
Nah, couldn't be.
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Re: Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
Driver "I didnt know, there was no rule"
Company "well sorry, but we expect you to be able to think, just a little bit, you are an operator of a large machine capable of loss of life, so your still fired, for being an idiot, and being below our intellegence requirement, thanks for playing though, oh and your contract states your responsible for damages, good luck"
Done, no specific rule, punishment still handed out, and everyone goes, gee i gotta think, I know it hurts but try it, you will be rewarded with how much better life is
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Re: Re: Bans allow company to fire these idiots!
No rule, maybe he gets fired, maybe not. Maybe he gets reprimanded, maybe not. Maybe his boss goes as far to strongly suggest that he never do that again - maybe.
That's why the ban makes sense. Period.
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Ban, HA!
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The ban is NOT all they did
They knew that texting is just one of 1001 possible distractions, and that even if they could get all train drivers to stop texting (which they can't, even with punishments) it's not really getting at the heart of the problem, which is that the trains are operating in such a way that a lightly distracted conductor could cause an accident.
So they changed the system: before (as I understand it... my details may be a bit off) conductors would sometimes be told, "stop at so-and-so track intersection and wait for a train to pass before continuing." Now, if two trains want to schedule the same branched segment of track, one is required to wait at the previous station until the track is completely free.
Simply placing stronger bans on cell phones in order to impose stronger punishments would not have solved the problem. Changing the system did.
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Even if they cause a fender-bender, it should be automatic loss of job with no severance, no back pay, nothing. If society is really serious about this issue, we need to be serious about the punishments or it's all just a big joke. And it's all fun and games until someone you know or love loses an eye.
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thumbsucker piece
You didn't do your homework: the Metro crash in Chatsworth (Calif.) didn't kill 'scores'. (The last I heard, 25 had died.)
Your logic stinks. You're saying that rules are no good -- because people break rules. Nonsense.
Surely you know better.
So think better. Write better.
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Re: thumbsucker piece
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Yeah, no shit. So what exactly was the point of the article?
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Similar warnings
Now on occasion I've had to call up the drivers because radio reception was lousy and I had to make sure they understood what I needed them to do. So I was technically breaking the rule. But we all know that personal use of our phones are a big no-no. We keep that rule in place as a catch all to get rid of the people that break it, because if they can't figure out the importance of their own safety but the passengers as well we have no use for them.
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Stupid people
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OR
Just make sure people are aware that cell phone use and texting, etc. qualifies for reckless driving and just do an ad campaign to spread the awareness.
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as a side note...
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Solution Found!
Then (us) business commuters using public transportation could ride to our employers in peace and complete safety knowing that the controller of their train DEFINITELY wasn't texting while driving.
The added (yet completely unintentional) consequence of blocking cell signals in the first car is that the riff-raff CHOOSE to ride in the back of the train. And if YOUR business is SO SCARY important that it can't wait the 20 minute commute, then you can voluntarily elect to ride in the rear car with the riff-raff.
ANOTHER (completely unintentional) benefit of this solution is that the fare inspectors will know where to start their inspections looking for fare jumpers. It's a win-win-win solution.
So is there now some ACLU liar..sorry, lawyer...out there that knows of the obscure passage in the US Constitution that outlines the rights of stupid people to infringe on my rights to be safe and productive in society?
Personal responsibility in the US is more dead than chivalry. Good luck to all.
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Hope this driver losses his job and any vested pension plus some years of freedom.
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Crime and Punishment
Talk to any psychologist - if you're trying to condition someone (human or animal) and your punishments for an action are inconsistent, you will be far less successful than if the punishment is exactly the same and occurs 100% of the time. I understand the necessity of a system in which all defendants have the right and ability to defend themselves, but the current system doesn't work.
So, having a cell phone if you're responsible for people's safety ought to be a week's suspension without pay. Personal effects would need to be checked, but that's better than something like this happening again.
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Re: Crime and Punishment
Finally! I get to use that Psychology degree I got!
Close, but wrong. The best conditioning (as those of us who own dogs know) is based on punishment/rewards, AKA reinforcement, that is nearly but not completely 100%. This usually happens after the association between the conditional and unconditional stiumli has been made, and you use extinction to continued the behavior w/o needing the reward/punishment as often.
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I think this article is wrong...
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Re: I think this article is wrong...
VRP
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Cell phone bans don't work?
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Of course it will! Just like making it illegal to bring guns on a school campus has completely eliminated school shootings...
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not the point of the law
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Laws are for the few
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