Another Court Says Police Don't Violate The Law In Putting A GPS Device On Your Car
from the tracking-you-in-public? dept
We first discussed this issue way back in 2003, wondering whether it was really a violation of privacy for police to put a GPS tracking device on a suspect's car. In 2005, a court said it was perfectly legal, though there were concerns about what this meant. We're seeing the same concerns as another court has ruled the same way. The reasoning and the logic is effectively the same: if you are traveling on public roads, anyone could (theoretically) drive behind you and see where you are going -- even without a warrant. So is it really a violation of privacy if that tracking is done by a little black box attached to your car instead of a big black box with four wheels?Of course, the flipside to that, is that if you are driving you can also see (for the most part) if there is another car following you and that other car cannot follow you onto private property that you own. A hidden GPS device is quite different on those points. So while the courts seem to be coming down on the side of this not being a violation of privacy, I can definitely see where privacy advocates are troubled by these rulings. The fact that they effectively suggest the police can simply put a hidden GPS device on any car for no reason at all raises plenty of questions -- especially in an era when information can and is regularly abused.
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Filed Under: gps, police, privacy, surveillance
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Re:
I'm pretty sure it's legal to shoot somebody who's trying to "steal your car"... What if that somebody was an out-of-uniform OR "undercover" cop?
Some dumb cop is going to get shot--and the person who was in the right is going to go to jail for it.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: depends where you live
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Deadly Force
> the taking of a human life. I learned this
> when I obtained my CCW.
That's only true in 48 states. Two states-- Alaska and Texas-- allow for the use of deadly force in defense of property.
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Re: Re: Re:
The punk trying to steal MY car better value his own life over my vehicle, or he will lose said life. *I* will not suffer (insurance hassles, time lost from work, etc.) just because someone wanted my car for free.
And, back on topic. If any law comes out where GPS can be put on vehicles, I will have it disabled/removed ASAP.
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Hassles from showing/using a gun
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Re:
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Re: GPS device on car
Autos have always had serial numbers and license plates for the putpose of identification. Every state in the U.S. requires a visible, readable license plate that declares traceable info about the vehicle. Gps is merely a more efficient method of doing the same. I believe we can expect a time in the near future when this type of device will be built into every vehicle at the point of its manufacture.
I believe it has already been determined by the SCOTUS that there is no expectatoion of privacy in public. That means anytime you are not inside your home or a changing room, toilet stall or simular location, you can expect to be observed, possibly filmed or otherwise be under surveillance. It's a brave new world...
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Finding the device
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Re: Finding the device
The police were not amused.
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If I found a transmiter
It would definatly fubar a lot of investigations when it becomes known cops use GPS trackers.
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Re: If I found a transmiter
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Unreasonable Search
Perhaps if one were installed on Justice Scalia's car, we would get a rethink on this from the courts.
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Re: Unreasonable Search
Putting an electronic listening device into someone's car w/o a warrant is the same.
Why can they attach an active listening device to a car without a warrant?
It should be tresspassing at the very least. A creative attorney should be able to disallow the evidence based on the 5th Admendment -- you don't have to incriminate yourself. Also, everyone should demand the source code to the entire system to make sure it's working properly.
I am not surprised with this decision, however. It goes right along with
the rest of the decisions like "Can I search your bag, sir?", "No, officer, you may not.". "Well, yes I may. Why? Because I have probable cause now."
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Re: Unreasonable Search
> Scalia's car, we would get a rethink on
> this from the courts.
Neither Scalia nor the court he serves on made the ruling at issue here.
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Redepoly
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Turn about is fair play
I mean, it's not an invasion of privacy, right?
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Re: Turn about is fair play
I'll donate to this cause. Just like the speed cameras - good for us, good for them :)
While we are at it, let's make sure that the government agencies no longer get to purchase equipment tax free, no more free vehicle registration/property taxes, no state run retirement/health plans, etc. In short, let them live with the laws/world they've created for us. After all, if it is good for us, it is good for them.
By the way, don't even talk about Health Insurance reform until the Congress agrees to use whatever health care system they create for us.
Freedom
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Seems legal ... with limits
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Tracking
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Re: Tracking
Except that requirement doesn't exist.
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Apply the Logic
they will hold that putting a tracker on a police vehicle
is equally legal: already publicly observable. Anybody wanna try that? Hah!
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Property rights
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The Feds can't do this...
The Honorable District Court Judge Terrence F. McVerry ruled that the feds need to go get a warrant to track your location via cell phone.
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Re: The Feds can't do this...
http://www.eff.org/files/filenode/celltracking/lenihanorder.pdf
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More like a drone following you than a car
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I'm just playing devil's advocate here but since I can follow anyone around I like (barring a restraining order) does that mean I can also put GPS tracking / listening devices on normal, ordinary people?
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Re:
You have got to be kidding. Just try doing that sometime and find out what happens.
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Drone
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Re: Drone
The U.S. Supreme Court has declared the navigable airspace above a property to be "a public highway" and within the "public domain". The FCC generally sets that altitude at 500 feet, with some exceptions (such as take off and landing). So below 500 feet is generally private property.
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Re: Re: Drone
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#2 Lobo Santo
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Re: #2 Lobo Santo
Murder is a state crime, not a Federal one.
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Re: #2 Lobo Santo
> steal your car. You are only allowed to
> shoot someone if you are in mortal danger
That's only true in 48 states. Two states-- Alaska and Texas-- allow for the use of deadly force in defense of property.
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abandoned property
Probably varies from state to state.
I think this would be applicable, but then IANAL
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Bullsh*t
So...its illegal to use a gun to ward off the thief, so de-facto, car theft is legal. Because how ELSE are you going to stop someone, definitively, from stealing your car? Ask them to go away? Yeah right, they will laugh as they drive off. And since anything less than the threat of deadly force (which is illegal) means someone can take your car, its now legal to take cars.
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Re: Bullsh*t
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Re: Bullsh*t
They say you're supposed to call the police.
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GPS hidden on cars
sorry but that is what the "Liberty" word is used for. What is liberty?
▸ noun: freedom of choice ("Liberty of opinion")
▸ noun: personal freedom from servitude or confinement or
oppression
▸ noun: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority:
political independence
▸ noun: leave granted to a sailor or naval officer
▸ noun: an act of undue intimacy
Take it this way. When the sailor is given liberty, does the Officer follow him to and fro? (maybe in todays brotherhood) No. That sailor has the right to go about anywhere he wants to without being bugged by the officer. This sir, entailes privacy.
Some also say it would not be ok to shoot someone tampering with your car. Well you go confront them, when they do anything but appologize and beg servitude, you need to defend yourself. Sorry officer, but you took on an unlawful act for your unlawful enforcement of illegal law(s).
Do they place these on rapists cars, bank robbery suspects, any other "criminal" but drug laws related survilance?
Unconstitutional laws require unconstitutional practices.
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Better than future ex wife!
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Public vs Private
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Simple way to combat police placing GPS tracker device on your car
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