Video Games And Influence

from the depends-on-who-you-talk-to dept

Thu, Sep 17th 2009 6:35am — Mike Masnick

In our recent post about some old rockers complaining about music video games being no substitute for actually playing instruments (not that anyone claimed it was), one of our commenters, Comboman, made a rather amusing point concerning complaints against video games:

Video game critics claim violent games will make kids want to imitate the game and do real violent acts. Now they're complaining that music games will make kids NOT want to imitate the game and do real music?

To be fair, it's a different group of people complaining this time, but it is rather amusing.

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Filed Under: influence, video games

37 Comments

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lgshort (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:24am

A damn good point
Quite an interesting point, I wonder how many industries this concept can be seen in? I.E., Downloading music leads to stealing cds from stores/Downloading music leads to not obtaining the phyical album.
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moore850 (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:26am

A detailed explanation
Violent video games are an issue because in the games, the violence is the solution to the game's obstacles. This is behavior you don't want kids to emulate.

Music video games are an issue because in the game, NOT creating music is the solution to the game's obstacles. This (NOT creating music) is behavior you don't want kids to emulate (i.e. you want kids TO create music or at least to value the creation of music).
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Yosi, 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:39am

Re: A detailed explanation
Correction:

While this is true, that in violent games, the violence is the solution, in music games, this is not the case.

In music games, you ARE creating (or playing) music as a solution to obstacle. You are not creating it in sense that it is not actually real-world music; and you are not really playing guitar in "Guitar Hero".

But by the same token, in violent games you're not using real weapons either.

The goal of FPS games is to shoot (violence), while the goal of "Guitar Hero" is [b]play guitar[/b] (music), duh!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:50am

The most violent I've ever been in relation to video games is when the game won't install or there's a technical problem preventing the game from working.

Nothing in any violent game (and I've played plenty) has gotten me as angry as that.
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Richard (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:52am

Re: A damn good point
As I commented before

http://www.techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20090913/1709366172#c445

there are many instances of this contradictory doublethink around.

The reason is simple. These people don't start from a rational analysis and use it to arrive at a conclusion. Instead they start at a conclusion (usually based on a combination of self interest and emotion) and then synthesise some "analysis" to support it. Also each topic is separate in their heads so the contradictions aren't obvious.

Add to all this the "something must be done" mentality and you see the result.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:54am

Re: A detailed explanation
The idea of Guitar Hero and Rock Band is to play music. To create music one must be in a small sub-set of players. Not everyone can create music, but with practice everyone can play someone's music. (plus in Guitar Hero you can create music)

So, since it's impossible to get everyone to create, I'd say a game that introduces everyone to new art (as well as several skills) is a good second.
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Call me Al, 17 Sep 2009 @ 7:58am

Re: Re: A detailed explanation
That and a game which introduces people to a wide variety of music they may not have encountered before. I've discovered so many great songs from those games that I doubt I would have ever found without them.

I've played violent games all my life and have yet to shoot anyone. I am also fairly sure I am not the exception here ;-)
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AJ, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:06am

Bad Parents
In my opinion, the video games are not the problem, the parents are. Bad video games don't create bad kids, bad parents do. Blaming the video game is just a way to shield the sheep from their own bad parenting.
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Yosi, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:07am

Re: Re: Re: A detailed explanation
I'm playing violent games AND shooting from real thing. Hint: there's organization out there that have shooting people as primary goal.
I can operate set of assault weapons as M16 and grenade launcher.

So what? I'm very sure that I am not an exception either.
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John Everyman, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:10am

Not really...
I find this particularly funny because one of my friends started playing drums on Rock Band all the time and it got him into playing real drums.

Also I think it should be noted that Rock Band/Guitar Hero are not substitutes because they are very different from actually playing the instrument. I play electric bass and although I find these games very fun they cannot replace the real thing. To kind of illustrate this, the first time I ever played Guitar Hero I thought it would be easy since I play a real instrument but this was definitely not the case and it took me a few hours to get used to the game. Muscians need to stop complaining.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A detailed explanation
"Hint: there's organization out there that have shooting people as primary goal."

You're a Chicago cop, aren't you?
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HolaJohnny (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A detailed explanation
Your from Chicago aren't you? Now if you had said something about a lot of ticket happy jerks and a few honest cops I would have thought you were talking about my neck of the woods Seattle.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:30am

Is Pacman violent?
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Yakko Warner, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:31am

More Realism
Exactly, games need to be more realistic! ;)
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Mike K, 17 Sep 2009 @ 8:43am

Imitating < > Doing
There is a conceptual and practical gap between "imitating" and "doing".
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Different Mike, 17 Sep 2009 @ 9:10am

It got me to play the drums
Allow me to share two personal examples of how Video games got me interested in doing the same activity for real:

I never played a day of tennis in my life. A few years ago one of my roommates had TopSpin for the XBox. Thanks to the game I learned the basic rules and scoring for Tennis. I was then inspired to look up more details on how to play, bought a tennis racket, and I now play real tennis on a very regular basis.

I purchased Guitar Hero World Tour when it came out. I had never played the drums before then. I started playing the drums in the game and progressed through the difficulty levels. A good friend of mine who has been playing drums for years watched me play. At first he was of the "pfffft, it's just fake instruments" mindset but after watching for a bit he said I should see if the skills translate to a real drum set. A few days later I went to his house and started banging on his drums. My friend then asked again to make sure "you really never played the drums before?" He was quite impressed with the amount of progress I had made having only played the video game before that. I have now jammed on his drums on a number different occasions, and while there are some definite differences, lots skills you learn from the game translate to a real drum set. At the moment I live in an apartment, which prevents me from purchasing a real drum set, but once I move into a house you can be quite sure that I will be getting one, and until then can keep working on my skills without annoying my neighbors by playing the game.
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Jackie, 17 Sep 2009 @ 9:56am

We just got Rock Band Beatles in our house. Besides the time we spend together as a family, laughing and playing, we're all learning a lot about the Beatles and really coming to appreciate them. I didn't even like listening to them before, preferring covers by more modern bands, but now I can appreciate their genius and enjoy listening to their music. My brother just bought the White Album.

I win: gaining appreciation of music.
My family wins: Time spent together.
Beatles Win: My bro bought their album
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2009 @ 9:58am

Gun violence is pretty easy to do IRL if you really want to. Playing an actual guitar well, not so much.
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Free Capitalist (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:30am

I played Spore for a while but then I hurt mitosis on the way to work.

Jack Thompson once played a lawyer simulator.
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iNtrigued (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:31am

Re:
I'll second that!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:35am

What I've seen:
I've seen people into Guitar Hero/Rock Band start playing real Guitar and Drums...

Multiple people who got hooked on Williams Pinball Hall of Fame for the Wii turn into real life pinball collectors...

I know people who are into classic cars now that were sparked by their addiction to driving video games...

I'm yet to meet anyone who plays Halo that goes out dressed in blue killing everyone that he sees dressed in Red. Nor have I seen any of them even carry a gun or express any interest in real life guns. Same goes for the COD crowd.

People can be influenced by any number of things, but most people's morals kick in and let them know what behavior is appropriate and what is not.

That extremely low percentage of people with little or no moral compass can be influenced by any number of things. Does anyone really think we should try to rid the world of all of them?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:36am

Re:
I've often told the story of how when I was seven I was taken away in handcuffs from my local petshop for jumping on the turtles because I thought they were "evil" and then screaming, "Somebody get me a damn princess immediately!!!"
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iNtrigued (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:46am

They're wrong
I see a lot of people on here that started playing or knew someone that started playing an instrument because of these games. On the other hand, how many people do you personally know that has emulated the violence from Halo or whatnot? I know my brother recently bought a guitar and is starting a band with his friend because of Guitar Hero, but he has yet to go and purchase a weapon to start inflicting damage to things.
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Free Capitalist (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 10:58am

Re: Re:
Seven is a tender age for MUSHROOM addiction.

Thank goodness you didn't have concurrent blowupapookatosis as so many of my generation suffered. That could have gotten real ugly.
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JB, 17 Sep 2009 @ 11:14am

Re: most violent I've ever been
AC,

I think you are very close to the real source of violence, the DRM. After legally obtaining software that treats me like I am a criminal, I'll admit that the idea entered my mind to go bash in a few skulls at the publisher's HQ.
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Comboman, 17 Sep 2009 @ 11:46am

From the Mountain out of a Molehill department
Wow, a whole article spawned by my little two line comment! I'm flattered. Now, where can I send you my bill for "remixing" my content? ;-)
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yes, 17 Sep 2009 @ 11:54am

Re: They're wrong
I've recently become violent because of whatnot

they should take that game off the shelves
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: They're wrong
I played Halo, Halo 2, and Halo 3 and got depressed because the ending kinda sucked.

I reloaded my laptop with Windows XP and got a virus within 5 min looking for the drivers. That I got violent over. I think I sprained my wrist.
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imbrucy (profile), 17 Sep 2009 @ 12:48pm

Re: Re: Re: They're wrong
I can completely sympathize with that. The only thing about the Halo series that I ever got violent or angry over was the stupid cliffhanger ending to Halo 2. But having had a PC crash because of a virus infection after the first reboot after getting into to Windows I can definitely say that made me more violent then I've ever been.
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Karl Royle, 17 Sep 2009 @ 1:47pm

Re: A detailed explanation
Au Contraire...research has shown that the opposite is true...gamers have to solve puzzles...even in GTA killing isn't a good game option to arrive at a win state..
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Sep 2009 @ 4:51am

playing Pac man will make you into a cheese killer.
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comprar r4 ds, 19 Sep 2009 @ 4:11am

how is responsible??
Very interesting topic, Usually i happens in everybody's home But its not fault of kids or parents. Even parents like play games. But i am always preferred nice games like Super Mario or donkey monk...Sometimes children playing some action games but we don't allow them.
comprar r4 ds
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Fluffy Bums, 22 Sep 2009 @ 8:11am

Playing music in games makes kids more aware
Playing music in games makes kids more aware of the music itself and it could help them understand music better than just listening to it. How many of us ever picked up and instrument and created music? Probably less than 1% so whats the problem? Poeple like to bitch especially if they are old timers.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Nov 2009 @ 11:50am

HAhahahaha... "Now they're complaining that music games will make kids NOT want to imitate the game and do real music?" you definitely got them this time.
Free games
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Lloyd, 1 Dec 2009 @ 3:11pm

In fewer words
Stop yo' BITCHEN video game critics!!!
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peron that is idk, 12 Jan 2010 @ 5:30am

the games
i like penis in my mouth
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peron that is idk, 12 Jan 2010 @ 5:30am

the games
i like penis in my mouth
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