Modern Warfare 2 Shows How To Piss Off Fans
from the reasons-not-to-buy dept
william was the first of a few of you to send in this story about how Infinity Ward seems to have decided to piss off a bunch of fans of the upcoming Modern Warfare 2 by not allowing dedicated game servers, limiting the number of players for PC-based multiplayer games and other limiting features. In one telling quote, one of the game's designers was asked about whether or not a certain feature would be enabled to allow players to change their field of view, and was told:We would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it.Now, that's fair enough, but if those fans don't want to play the game that way, they're not going to play it at all.
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Filed Under: fans, games, modern warfare 2
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When they start intentionally limiting even totally non-controversial stuff like FoV, then you know that something is very wrong with the company and shouldn't touch their products, in order to discourage them and others from propagating this shit.
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Of course, that's just a reason why you'd want to give people the option to turn it off for multiplayer. Can't see any reason why you'd have it permanently turned off ...
Why not enable the option, collect stats on it (assuming you're able to without having privacy issues), and then use that information to inform you about which settings are popular and therefore which settings to focus on when "balancing" MW3
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And to j2dude99, if you really want to boycott this, don't even download it. That still legitimizes any kind of limitation they feel to implement. Don't buy it, don't download it, don't even talk about it. Just let it die.
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Yep, you get it. Whining about a game is just part of "buzz" that makes more people get the game (including purchasing it) to see what the fuss is about.
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Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
That said, there are plenty of other servers out there. You'll find one that may even announce an expanded FOV. Or, hey... YOU COULD TAKE ON THE COST YOURSELF.
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Re: Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
What about people with 5.1 speakers? Should the center and surround be disables so those with only stereo have a fair chance too? I can hear people sneaking up behind me with multichannel speakers, and in fact that option is more of a boon than the extra FOV.
My mouse has the ability to toggle the sensitivity, should those options be disabled too?
They aren't going to sell games by catering to the lowest common denominator. They need to make the game enjoyable by everyone. That's what people like me want, the ability to play games on our shiny hardware. We are enthusiasts.
And let's not forget the console versions. Does the game screw people over with HDTV because there are some people with standard TVs?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
So, what about you people with 2 monitors? Goody for you. Go buy 2 more and then you can still have a 4:3 ratio (if the original two are 4:3). And yes, *all* versions of MW2 are locked to a 65FOV. Consoles (even those attached to HDTVs!)and PCs alike. Why? Because this game wasn't built for PCs. It was built for consoles, many of which are still running on 4:3 ratio screens. PC work (look at all the things that they put into the PC version - Mouse, chat, interactive menus and the ability to choose a chapter? Ooooh!) was an afterthought. This game is simply about consoles.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
While I nave never hosted a MW2 server (how many have at this point?), I do understand things like lag time and frame rates. While the server will push the data as a set speed it doesn't work if you're connection is slower than that speed. And the frame rate has nothing to do with connection speed at all. Yet, you have a crappy frame rate, you can't play properly.
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Re: Re: Re: [widescreen/FOV]
I play the opposite side of this fallacious argument: You're getting ripped off, because the plain old USB ports on your console won't let you play the games with a keyboard and mouse. Ask the devs why; they'll tell you that the KB/mouse is more accurate.
Holding back the best to normalize the average does not bring the slow kids up to average, it just keeps dragging the average further and further down.
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any options that can be 'tweaked' to give an advantage will be abused to death and should be locked down tight
So, in addition to not being able to set my FOV so that I don't get an unfair disadvantage from people sniping me high above me and out of view, I have to set my graphics to the level of a Geforce 7600 so that I can't tell where someones head ends and their body begins? I can't use my 5.1 headset because someone might be using a set of mono speakers? Give me a break. Cheating is wall hacks and aim bots, speed mods and damage mods. Not the options that make skilled players better.
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Second, surround sound is simply not that big an advantage over normal stereo. Sorry, but you're not hearing anything the other guy doesn't hear. It's not like you're suddenly getting extra sound info that other's aren't. And if you need 5.1 surround in order to tell where a sound is coming from then... you simply need to get better at the game. Don't even pretend for one second that some extra sound channels are suddenly going to turn you into a 'better' player... because that is pure bs.
"Not the options that make skilled players better."
More like... an average player seem a little bit better. Like I said, average players will grab at everything they can to stop getting their asses owned online.
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Want to know how bad it is? Go take a look at what's going on with boderlands when people have to manually change the FOV. I had to change it from 60 degrees to 130 because it looked *that crappy* without 130.
Just because you can "See to your side" doesn't provide you much of a real benefit - because you would then have to be focused on your sides more than in front and your focus would wane. If you're trying to imply that a 360 degree FOV might be cheating, I'd like to remind you that such a thing looks horrifically awful in a FPS.
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Sorry, but this is also laughable. It is one of those points that probably looks good on paper, but in reality is totally wrong. If you cannot take in the whole screen AT ONCE then you're at a disadvantage skillwise. It is these "average" players who do not realise that something like the above is just NORMAL GAMEPLAY behaviour for a good player (ie. scanning whole screen simultaneously.)
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Whining
Of course that would be fine - people can choose not to buy something and then the developers will get the message.
However, what will actually happen is: people will but the game anyway because they want to play it/their friends are playing it. Then they'll spend some additional time moaning and whining on the intertubes. Just making everybody else a little worse off.
-Perros-
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I am glad I bought l4d2 instead
Valve isn't crazy enough to throw out dedicated game servers, because I am sure they know not everyone can invest their own money into renting servers, and plus, a dedicated game server isn't modded, so it runs the game as it was intended with default settings.
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Re: I am glad I bought l4d2 instead
"a dedicated game server isn't modded"
What the what?!?!? Dedicated game servers are certainly modded and the admins are given too much control over the gameplay. Anti-Cheat systems seem to do little to stop players from enabling hacks to take advantage of dedicated servers.
As far as fairness of gameplay....MW2 creates a level playing field. No more mods, no more tweaks to benefit a chosen few on a dedicated server. They are obviously going for better online experience and people are lined up to buy it. If you dont like it, dont play it...or better yet, go play a few rounds of Counter-Strike with someone that has all kinds of cheats enabled and kills you thru walls...it sucks.
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Re: Re: I am glad I bought l4d2 instead
Don't say L4D because it still uses dedicated servers even if the UI doesn't expose them. People can, and do, access specific dedicated servers through the use of the console.
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Re: Re: I am glad I bought l4d2 instead
Dedicated servers don't make cheats possible; bugs in the game (not to mention programs that run in the background on the client side) are what players use to cheat.
Sure, admins do have god-like powers over the server. However, you're a fool if you believe that players will continue to play on a server where the admin abuses his/her powers. If I don't like how an admin is running his/her server I'm certainly not going to go back to it.
Admins having control of the server, as well as being able to install mods, sure as hell doesn't hurt games. If anything, it makes them last longer. Do you think people would still be fiddling with Doom and the Quake series if they were under lock and key? Would Unreal Tournament have been half as popular as it was if you couldn't find a plethora of game types and mutators? You mentioned Counter-Strike in your post. Do you know that Counter-Strike was originally a mod for Half-Life?
Mods don't hurt games, they help them. id realizes this. Epic realizes this. Valve realizes this. A *lot* of companies realize this. The fact that Infinity Ward has actually *regressed* just baffles me.
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Re: I am glad I bought l4d2 instead
Not to sound mean... Have you ever ran a dedicated game server before? Sure a dedicated game server is pure when you first install it. However, it by no means is not modifiable. Even the L4D series has server based mods available for them.
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I lost all respect for IW and this is how i'm gonna take revenge.
God Bess the pirate bay!
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I LOVED COD4 and was seriously considering buying the PC version this time. I really, really, REALLY want to get this tomorrow, but with all their blind arrogance and contempt for the customers, I have decided to buy a USED copy for the Xbox 360 when they inevitably show up in a few weeks, thus denying Activision and IW one red cent of my money.
Way to fail there, chumps! I get to play the game - LEGALLY! - and you greedy f*ckers make NOTHING off me.
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Shocking? Hardly
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Re: Shocking? Hardly
I refuse to buy, or even download MW2.
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I disagree. They're going to play pirated versions on pirated servers, and then IW will blame the resulting lower sales on the boogeyman of "piracy" rather than their own actions. Then COD:MW3 will have even more restrictions...
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As with all things, change happens.
The people who develop these games most likely know what the gamer wants because they are probably gamers too (among other reasons including getting feedback from their massive twitter following).
Before I throw my hands up in the air, I'm going to give it a shot. It looks awesome, I'm sure online play will be too. I have faith in the dev team.
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The people who make laws most likely know what the people want because they are probably people too (among other reasons including getting feedback from their massive mail boxes full of letters). I know that's a bad analogy, but the point is that an organization can be out of touch with what people want.
As with all things, change happens.
Yeah, but in this case the changes were bad and IW had full control over what changes it made (they were not the result of random or complicated circumstances). That's not an excuse for making poor decisions.
I'm disappointed about the lack of dedicated servers because I value communities in games I play. Communities without a doubt add to the gaming experience. A game by itself can be fun but being able to play with people you're familiar with as opposed to random people certainly makes the experience more enjoyable. I fail to see why IW made this decision. Was the the normal system was failing? For those who don't value community, they just chose random servers. This goes back to the old saying of "why fix something when it's not broken."
Side thought: One problem (if it is at all) with the old system is team stacking by a group. However, from my experience this has been resolved by admin regulation or by the offended person finding a new server to play on.
Before I throw my hands up in the air, I'm going to give it a shot.
As will I, with hopes that I can still play with online friends (up to 10-15) in the same game.
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Dedicated servers
Plenty of people will buy the game and it'll probably sell good on the consoles. Those that buy it on PC are mostly folks who don't understand the difference between a dedicated server and a localhost. It won't be long before the IW servers are full and people are forced into bad ping situations on the PC. Hopefully they'll pummel the IW forums with complaints about ping or the poor gaming experience they're recieving.
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Re: Dedicated servers
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Re: Dedicated servers
Wha-? The people who play on PC know very well the difference. The whole pc fps industry was built off of dedicated servers (bf2? cod4?). that is by far the dumbest statement I have read about this whole snafu.
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Re: Re: Dedicated servers
Wha-? The people who play on PC know very well the difference. The whole pc fps industry was built off of dedicated servers (bf2? cod4?). that is by far the dumbest statement I have read about this whole snafu.
Quake 2 had dedicated servers - first one I recall offhand...
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My apologies for not being clear.
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Re: Re: Dedicated servers
But yes, PC gamers know a good Dedicated server when they see one.
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And I even installed windows on a cheap harddrive for the game. *shrugs* oh well, guess I can use that space for something else.
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in the real world ...
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Re: in the real world ...
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Riight...
As people above have said, the console versions will do alot better (I saw 16,000 people online 8pm UK time on thursday; that's 5 days before the release).
If you all have time and dedication to seed the game, why not host your own games with your "friends" and stop all this bitching?
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Re: Riight...
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw
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Re: Re: Riight...
Millions of people buy (and enjoy) the game, they'll make a new one, I'm happy.
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Re: Riight...
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Re: Riight...
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http://technologizer.com/2009/11/06/steam-snag-digital-retailers-boycott-modern-warfar e-2/
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IW doesn't care about PC games...
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I think if the new game is as good as CoD4, they have nothing to worry about.
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More options = more customers
Less options = less customers
Who would have thought...?
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Late to the party
COD2 and COD4 are still being played years after their release ONLY because of dedicated servers and the community-generated content. MW2 will end up being a seasonal flash in the pan without it, and IW/Activision will have their hands for another $60 of the consolers money next year.
The difference is that the consolers will give it up because they have no choice, whereas PC gamers will continue to enjoy other developers' products that encourage community development.
BTW - where do you consolers think most of the ideas incorporated into MW2 came from? (hint: community-generated MODS!) ;)
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There's also another insidious problem. When a host drops their connection, and the next host is selected, the process is arbitrarily random.
Imagine the host drops out, and the next randomly selected host is also a cheater and a racist. You cannot kick this guy. The entire game becomes a waste.
The reason why I avoid console online game is because of the same exact things that PC Modern Warfare 2 is doing.
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It's pure cut and simple. IW wants to limit the PC version like the Console version is in every way shape and form so they can try to sell down-loadable content to the PC gamers. This is idiotic because PC gamers for as long as there were PC games have made their own modifications to games. If the game is difficult to mod (which this one will be since they aren't releasing any mod tools) the game will die on PC faster than ever.
Since PC sales of games compared to Console sales of games always show the Consoles rocking it out in comparison while getting the added bonus of download-able content it's plain to see that they think if they treat the PC like it was a console all the sudden people will accept it.
I play on both platforms and both platforms cater to a different type of player, trying to force people on one side of the fence to do something the other side of the fence is doing is just plain and simple stupid.
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CoD4 won't have this kind of shelf life because it's online community will die when IW decides to shut down their servers. But that's what they want, because they'll be selling the next big thing by then anyway.
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The Heart of the Matter
I feel like this is the real reason why all of the missing features.
They are trying to cut corners and they will pay for it with poor sales on the PC platform, which they will see as a reason to abandon PC gaming like others have.
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entitlement society?
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Re: entitlement society?
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Useless excusses
They won't allow dedicated servers because they're afraid of cheaters, yet from what I could tell, they're using Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC), which is fully supportable on dedicated servers. I basically only play TF2 on third party dedicated servers with VAC enabled.
The FOV issue? Well I'm sorry to say, but it's not balanced forcing everyone to have see the same thing horizontally, but force widescreen owners to see a reduced picture vertically.
Restriction to 9 vs. 9 multiplayer. What is this, 1999? The original CS had support for 12 vs. 12 AFAIK. 99% of the time, I play TF2 on 32 player (or greater, even) servers. With the exception of the King of the Hill and Arena maps (and even including some of them), all of the first party maps and many of the community maps can easily handle 16 players per team, and most stop being fun when the number of players dips below 16.
Suffice it to say, I'm not going to purchase this game. TF2, L4D, and L4D2 will provide me with much more online entertainment in the coming months than MW2 ever could.
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Game design is a funny thing
You know, that statement in and of itself would be okay....if they actually designed the damn game to be played the way players want. Not everyone shares my opinion on games, and I do like a certain type/style of game, but when I look over a short list of my favorite games (most/all of which happen to be fairly successful):
1. Deus Ex
2. Fallout 1 & 2
3. The Sims
4. Sim City
5. Final Fantasy 7
...I notice that, with the exlusion of Final Fantasy 7, ALL of those games offer an extremely high degree of do-what-you-want-ness. Deus Ex was particularly well known for level designs that allowed you to complete objectives a variety of ways. The Fallout series is the same way, literally allowing you to act pretty much however you please. The Sims is kind of the kings of this type of thing.
When you actively try to make your game open to the interests of more people, you're going to win. Linear gameplay only works when the story is incredibly strong. Then the focus isn't really on the gameplay at all, but finding out what happens next in the story, a la FF7.
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Infinity Ward's Choice
I feel it is sad when this happens as I am one of those people they cut out. I had been looking forward to the game for a long time and now I won't be buying it, and I would have been two sales as I have a 360 to play with my casual gaming friends, but prefer PC gaming. (I have both versions of COD4 and COD:WAW)
I will probably borrow it from a friend for the single player story but I refuse to give them money after what they have done, even though I know it is probably going to be an insignificant gesture against such a huge game.
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You know, like...mouse control, text chat, and graphics settings! Think of all the work that went into that!
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Adjusting your Field of VIEW IS CHEATING !!!!
How are people complaining that there will be less cheating ?
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Re:
2) Good job focusing on ONE aspect of the terrible design of the PC version.
3) Any cheaters that manage to get past the "anti-cheat" (and they will) cannot be kicked. That is called..."more cheating."
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IW
IW/Activision made a choice to shift their MW2 in a different direction. It is their investment they can spend and develop how they choose. However, I doubt they wanted to investment addition time and resources into the PC platform (higher cost to develop). Even though their last game in the series is very popular.
Console game development = lower cost and less investment of resources after release for patches, etc. DLC issue discussed is just one area PC gamers differ on gaming with console.
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IW continued
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How to avoid P2P lag and problem players in MW2!
For PC gamers, this is NOT the MP you're used to playing. Save your money.
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This game is not balanced for PC
I lost count of how many times they used this sorry excuse in the interview!
You know its bad, too, when they start pitching the PC version based on the merits of it having 'video controls' and 'mouse support'! lol - I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried!
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Re: This game is not balanced for PC
"DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?
Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game."
Yay non-answers.
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Messed up
#1. You cannot kick a cheater from your own server. You can't kick ANYONE from your server
#2. Limited to 9v9 MAX. GL with guild matches
#3. you have absolutely no control over the server. You just get the regular default.
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And a fast response
Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.""
VAC uses a delayed ban which can take upwards for 2 months before the ban hammer hits. So if someone is cheating in your match right now, it may be as long as two months before they get banned, even if VAC flags them right now.
VAC does this to make it hard for cheaters to figure out what works and what doesn't. I guess a delayed response removes cheaters in the long run and makes it hard to reverse engineer the logic used to detect the cheats.
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RE: post 69
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"We included custom features for the PC such as mouse control, text based chatting, and the ability to adjust graphical settings"
I lost all respect for this horrific company.
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codmw2
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I cant wait to buy and play my copy
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Maybe I'm off base here. Maybe they just don't feel like fooling with the PC version at all. Is it just a coincidence that none of the special editions are available to PC gamers? Were they anticipating far lower sales than normal in the PC version because they knew ahead of time no dedi servers would hurt sales? It's tough to say, but I'd be it has more to do with the content packs than anything else. It's a quick buck to be made with little time invested. Not to mention, by giving us a game that wont be played for years to come they can just try to sell us the next title in the series. They probably don't want a game with longevity.
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Maybe I'm off base here. Maybe they just don't feel like fooling with the PC version at all. Is it just a coincidence that none of the special editions are available to PC gamers? Were they anticipating far lower sales than normal in the PC version because they knew ahead of time no dedi servers would hurt sales? It's tough to say, but I'd be it has more to do with the content packs than anything else. It's a quick buck to be made with little time invested. Not to mention, by giving us a game that wont be played for years to come they can just try to sell us the next title in the series. They probably don't want a game with longevity.
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modern warfare 2 sucks
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modern warfare 2 sucks
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With the release of Call of duty:WaW and Call of Duty:MW2 im starting to think that the awesome creation of COD:4 was a flook by these people.
Get it right of get out of the computer game entertainment industry.
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if the game designers wanted to reduce the unbalanced gameplay due to these secret-console-functions, The should have made them built-in game options. How hard would it be to have a slider for FPS limitations or Fov selections the exact same as a Resolution selection.
The leaning was removed from the xbox version because there was not enough buttons to support it.
IVE GOT PLENTY OF KEYS ON MY KEYBOARD.
it really shows their direction towards console gaming when they do something as silly as that.
They really should have modified COD4. "The most successful first person shooter in history".
Dont know how they expected to beat that... WITH THIS... disappointing IW
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FOV isn't cheating
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Just a thought here....
Now that my ranting is done.
Just a thought here... why get pissed off at all?
No dedicated server, so what? When there's a little thing called GameSpy Arcade and it's been around since WarCraft the original. Still to this day I smack myself in the forehead racking up a 400$ phone bill playing Direct Dial.
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no, they'll just hack
I watched the replay of someone with hacks ruining it for everyone in the game. This usually doesn't last too long as they eventually get a nuke and just end the game.
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cod2
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mw2
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Several people on this site have commented that game companies like Epic, ID and Valve allow user-created content and game settings in order to breathe life into a game that would normally be played out. IW in the long run is only throttling the future community following it will receive for future titles. Look at Sega. They released the Saturn, tried to pump out games, all the while robbing the dev teams making their games of the time and resources need to make the games all they could be, and look at them now; THEY GOT BOUGHT OUT!
The reason that these good companies are still around is that they listen to what their customers want, and they incorporate that into their products. IW will pay with bancruptcy for their unwillingness to do that.
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Re:
Maybe people will just buy the game because it represents a certain solid grond in moral fiber that seems to be missing from the world today.
Get your heads out of your collective ***es, people of the world and stand for your beliefs! Stop letting everything cloud what you really think!
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