Teenager And Composer Argue Over File Sharing
from the fight-it-out dept
Early last week, reader dcm sent over an interesting blog post by Jason Robert Brown, a somewhat well known theatrical composer where he posted a debate he had with a teenager concerning file sharing. Since then, it appears the story also appeared on Reddit and some other sites, and now everyone is submitting it to me (that'll teach me not to leave interesting stories to write up over the long weekend...). Anyway, the basics of the story aren't too surprising: Brown is upset that the girl isn't paying him, the girl tries to explain that she wouldn't buy his work otherwise (she doesn't have the means), but is trying to promote his work because she likes it and thinks more should know about it. And, from those two very different viewpoints, nothing approaching agreement is ever reached.It's definitely an interesting discussion, in that both sides mostly remain friendly throughout the debate. Brown starts off with a simple request to various users of some file sharing system to please stop sharing his works because it's "totally not cool" with him. Thankfully, he doesn't threaten anyone or break out any legalistic cease-and-desist type language. There is some back and forth at the beginning where the girl doesn't believe that "THE" Jason Robert Brown is really emailing her, but then the conversation gets a bit more interesting. She starts out by asking him a simple question about why he's spending so much time asking everyone to take down his scores:
I'd like to ask you a question. Why are you doing this? I just searched you on this site and all of the stuff that people have of yours up there say that it's "Not for Trade Per Composer's Request." Did you think about the aspiring actors and actresses who really need some good sheet music? If you're really who you claim to be, then I assume you know that Parade, Last Five Years, 13 The Musical, etc. are all genius pieces of work and that a lot of people who would love to have that sheet music can't afford it. Thus the term "starving artist." Performers really need quick and easy ways to attain good sheet music and you're stopping a lot of people from getting what they need. It matters a great deal to them that they can get it for free. Why does it matter so much to you that they don't?Brown takes a while to actually get around to responding to the questions (there are some emails in between), but he finally says:
I should think the answer is obvious: I think it's annoying and obnoxious that people think they're entitled to get the sheet music to my songs for free, and I'd like to make those people (you, for example) conscious of the immorality, illegality, and unfairness of their behavior.The teenager, Eleanor (sometimes referred to as Brenna, but that's not worth discussing), points out that many artists have no real means of obtaining his works, but by being able to download the scores for free and use them, they're making many more people aware of his works. She presents a hypothetical that describes the value of word of mouth marketing for those who might not be aware of his works, even highlighting how many of those people will likely end up making transactions that help his bottom line. He, not surprisingly, is not buying it:
That same scenario could take place exactly the same way if you paid for the music. And that's how that scenario is SUPPOSED to take place. You assume that because a good thing comes from an illegal act, it's therefore mitigated. That's nonsense. I'm glad people want to sing my songs, and I'm glad that when other people hear them, they enjoy them -- that doesn't mean I surrender my right to get paid for providing the sheet music.This is a point that is raised quite often, but misses the point, which Eleanor is quick to point out: that the scenario won't happen, because many up-and-coming artists will simply shift to music from composers who do allow it to be traded for free:
You think the same scenario could have taken place exactly the same way? Funny. Most of the teenagers I have met who are into theatre would do the free song before they would do the one for $3.99 unless they had a really good reason. It could theoretically take place the same way. The question is would it? And the answer is probably not. I never said that it was an amazing thing happening and I never said that it doesn't start with what I'm sure seems to you as a bad thing. I "assume that because a good thing comes from an illegal act, it's therefore mitigated"? .... Yes. I assume that because something that good comes from something so insignificantly negative, it's therefore mitigated.Brown comes back with a few comments about how it's not worth arguing with a teenager who thinks anyone who tries to correct her is "the enemy," but then comes up with three "stories" of his own about why file sharing is wrong -- even though none of them actually show that. Instead, there are two that are about borrowing a physical item, and one about fair use. What's most amusing here, however, is that Brown seems to have no problem with the kind of fair use where you rip a CD, but doesn't seem to think that Eleanor's use of his music could possibly be fair use. Then he concludes with four paragraphs where he tries to convince her she's wrong and tells her she should take his works out of the library instead:
Now you're frustrated because even if you wanted to do the right thing, the ethical and legal thing, you still need a credit card to buy the sheet music and that isn't going to happen. Listen, Eleanor, I'm frustrated on your behalf. It really sucks to be a teenager. I'm not being sarcastic or ironic, I really get it. I wrote a whole show about it. But being able to steal something doesn't mean you should. If your parents really won't pony up the four bucks to buy a copy of the sheet music, then you can ask them to take you to the library and you can take out all the music you want, free, and pick the song you want to use for an audition or a talent show, and you can keep borrowing the book from the library until you're done with it or until the library demands it back. My song may not be in your library -- you could ask them to get it from another library, through an interlibrary loan (this is common, standard library practice), but if you're in a time crunch, that's not practical -- so you may have to just pick another song. It may not be the perfect song, but if you're a talented girl, it won't matter all that much. As long as it shows off what you can do and who you are, it will suffice because you are a teenager and the people who you are auditioning for will cut you slack on that account.Not surprisingly, I side more with Eleanor than with Brown in this debate, but I do think it's a good thing that the two sides engaged in a civil discussion on this topic, and think it's a bit unfortunate, as Brown notes in his "update" that he's hearing from "hostile" men who are trying to "educate" him on this subject. I would bet, of course, that many of the people trying to educate Brown are not, actually, hostile at all, but I'm sure some of them certainly are. And it's unfortunate, then, that he automatically lumps all such responses into the "hostile" camp.
That's the end of my jeremiad, and I'd be surprised if it persuaded you in any real way, but it is the truth and it is your responsibility as a citizen, as a member of the theatrical community, and as a considerate human being to pay attention to the laws, ethics and customs that make it possible for you to do the thing you love. I'm very much impressed by how passionately you've stood your ground, and how articulate you've been in doing so, and I can't tell you how excited I am that you didn't misspell anything, not once in this entire exchange. (Well, you wrote "you're" when you meant "your" once, but I'll let it go.) But being able to argue a point doesn't make it right -- lots of lawyers lose cases all the time.
I'm sorry if you still think I'm a jerk, but what I'm talking about here is not "insignificant." The entire record business is in free-fall because people no longer feel the moral responsibility to buy music; they just download it for free from the Internet, from YouTube, from their friends. When I make a cast album or a CD of my own, I do it knowing that it will never earn its money back, that I'm essentially throwing that money away so that I can put those songs out in the world. That shouldn't be the case, and I suspect in your heart you believe that too. All of us who write music for the theater are very much concerned that the sheet music business will eventually go the same way as the record business. I'm doing my little part to keep that from happening.
If you want me to talk to your parents and ask them to buy you the sheet music, just have them write me an email. You know how to find me.
The simple fact of the matter is that Brown is, in fact, wrong on many of his key points, though it's not surprising that he is. For example, his claims that "the entire record business is in free-fall because people no longer feel the moral responsibility to buy music," is quite an incorrect statement. First of all, since when has there ever been a "moral responsibility to buy music?" There hasn't been. And, of course, while certain major record labels may see their business in free-fall, the actual music business is doing incredibly well -- in fact, it's having quite a renaissance in terms of the number of albums released, and the amount of overall money that people are spending on it. It's just that they're not spending it on recordings (or sheet music) directly.
That said, Brown has made his living this way for a while, so you can see why he'd be upset that the old way of making money has been disappearing, but I doubt that a significant portion of his earnings came from teenage girls buying his sheet music in order to perform it at talent shows. In fact, since most of his work is for the theater, there are numerous business models available to him that have little, if nothing, to do with direct recordings, and for which file sharing -- like the kind Eleanor cites -- could help attract more revenue if he'd learn to adapt, rather than demand that the rest of the world adapt to him.
In the end, though, Brown did not go legalistic (even if he did go moralistic) and seemed at least willing to engage with Eleanor. I doubt he's going to change his mind any time soon, but we've seen a lot worse and a lot more obnoxious from folks who were a lot less informed. Brown strikes me as the kind of guy who, if actually given more evidence on this subject might actually come around to recognizing that, perhaps, it was he who made the wrong assumptions, rather than Eleanor, even if it might take quite some time before he realizes this.
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Filed Under: copyright, file sharing, jason robert brown, morality, music, sheet music
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Who would want to
He is cited by Mark Shenton as one of the new theatrical composers (a list that includes Michael John LaChiusa, Adam Guettel, Andrew Lippa, and Jeanine Tesori, among others).[14] "They're all smart writers and excellent musicians with lots of interesting ideas for shows. But they don't write take-away tunes." writes New York Post theatre columnist Michael Riedel.[15]
In other words he is no more than a journeyman - so there will always be an alternative.
Then we get to the real reason why he doesn't want anyone having his sheet music..
Brown has many trademarks in his composing style. His piano music is often extremely rhythmically challenging; his sheet music is released in a mostly unmodified format, posing many challenges to anyone who tries to play it. His songs are by no means easy to sing, either, with his choral music including many complex and unconventional harmonies and his songs (for men, in particular) covering a very wide vocal range.
In other words for amateur musicians it will be a struggle to perform so that $3.99 is probably a waste of money.
There is no good reason to patronise this guy. Leave him to the inevitable obscurity that he deserves.
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Re: Who would want to
It's the same lines that are trotted out by any musicians that think that ASCAP and RIAA are out to protect the artists interests.
Same thing I've gotten from every musician I've ever asked about the situation - they don't care about file sharing, but oh! it's amoral! it's stealing!
even when they themselves know it's not.
It's quite similar to the apple cult.
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A Race
My bet is on Eleanor.
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Moral high ground
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Re: Moral high ground
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Re: Re: Moral high ground
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It's 2010
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Illegal is Illegal
I don't appreciate the RIAA and MPAA tactics, but the law is on their side... as well as the ethical and moral grounds. There is no way to get around the facts of law. Trying to do so simply shows a person as unscrupulous.
(I am not a shill RIAA or MPAA... but I am someone who had his property stolen by many people through electronic means and was never compensated for nine months of intense labor. It was basically a statement by others that I should work for free... and they were wrong, are wrong and always will be wrong.)
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
But a digital copy is not stealing because you still have the original. Its copying.
Maybe they will do something that will promote your work and you may gain from that. Maybe they won't do anything with it and would never have paid for it in the first place in which case it makes no difference to you. So, if somebody copies something of yours there is either a slight positive gain for you, or no loss. (roughly anyway)
Try considering it as advertising.
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Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
or consider the fact that there is nothing you or anyone can do to stop it, and that any time, effort, or money spent trying to stop file sharing is time, effort and money that is not just wasted, but actually invested in ill will against you and your product.
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Re: Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
Investing in ill will. Well said.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
A bad law *should* be ignored, and if you *honestly* believe _any_ group of corporate lawyers has the ethical and moral high grounds, you are a very, very misguided person.
The **AA is, in one stroke, taking *far* more money from artists (around 85%+ of album sales) than a file sharer ever could *and* locking up your and my culture for the better part of a century. Moral and ethical high grounds? Please.
Also, as has been noted, you sound more than a little touched in the head when you can't tell the difference between stealing and infringement. If "stealing is stealing" then the RIAA et al. would be going after people for theft, would they not? Exactly.
What the post from "THE" Jason Robert Brown shows is that he is just as misguided as Metallica: When the gravy train starts to become obsolete, lash out at the symptom instead of the cause. Yet, he has the moral high ground? Ha.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
This is true, but copyright infringement is in no way theft.
"I don't appreciate the RIAA and MPAA tactics, but the law is on their side... as well as the ethical and moral grounds."
How exactly do you have the moral right to a monopoly? Oh that's right, you don't.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
Just because some senile, fat, bribed-to-hell-and-back men wrote it on a piece of paper and sat around and nodded at each other does not make it right, moral, ethical, or even logical.
Back-of-the-busers like you just need to sit and read before spouting off about obeying the law no matter what. People are fallible. People write laws. No surprise when a few bad laws come out.
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Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
Have you read any of the laws passed recently, they are all bad laws targeted at helping corporations make money.
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Re: Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
Big Ole Grin
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Re: Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
if someone broke into your computer and took your stuff, it's probably up on the net somewhere and you can just download it from there and get it back.
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Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
For those of you watching from home, digital content is simply a string of 1s and 0s, which actually represents a number. You can no more "create" content that you can create the number 10768532029100.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
1. $3.99 - even for a teenager - is not much cash. That's what - half hour work at McDonalds? I bet the the ultra-slushy coffee drink they have in their hands costs more.
2. Regardless of the inability to grasp the "new business model" Brown has rejected it (at least for now). That is his choice. Just as there should be venues for allowing artist to thrive without the need for RIAA, there should also be venues that allow artist to be more restrictive with their art if they feel it's necessary.
My beef is never with the artist. My beef is with RIAA (et al) who aggressively protect profits (through legal bullying, protection rackets, congressional lobbying) in the *guise* of protecting artist.
I think in the end it is the wrong move for the Copy Left folks to lump the two camps (artist and recording associations) together.
Doing so gives the recording groups a "see I told you so" opportunity (RIAA can claim that Copy Left groups don't care about the artist - they just want the art) - where as the true motive should be to protect the artist choice of distribution - even if that means the individual artist chooses to keep his art distribution limited.
In other words fight RIAA - but don't fight the artist.
-CF
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Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
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$3.99 is a *lot* to merely audition a piece!
I think the increase of auditioning *without* purchase is largely what upsets the biz, because I've bought a good deal of just plain crap back before it was possible to give a listen first. I'd say they're definitely missing the portion that used to be bought just based on the album cover art in an actual store.
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Re: Re: Illegal is Illegal
At that point you have two choices, you download (illegally) copies for free to check them out or move to use work that is in the public and can be used for free. Honestly I would prefer the second option and let the artist that would lock up their works rot in obscurity but they have to realize they really are not losing sales to downloads when things are getting used for non-profit things like a simple talent show when they would not of been a sale anyways and do end up acting as a form of advertising.
I in some ways compare this to a bunch of my friends who have downloaded hacked versions of Photoshop when the silly image editing they do could be done just as easily in Gimp legitimately for free but they would never spend money on something to do simple image editing anyways. Even all the illegal uses of Photoshop simply reinforce its market dominance and public mindshare. Everyone I know that actually uses Photoshop to make money is more than willing to pay the (to me the rather outrageous) cost for it because they do know exactly how valuable it is.
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EASY way around the "facts of law" is to change the "law".
But I doubt that "legalizing" theft of your work would console you, any more than legalisms consoled slaves who had their entire lives stolen. -- Oddly, though, your work can be "stolen by many people through electronic means", and yet you can still have it. What a strange world.
I'm only demonstrating that you're mistaken on "illegal is illegal". That's simply *not* true in this area. -- The central problem is that it's *not* settled: some are leveraging privilege into encroaching on everyone's liberty, while I'm for rolling copyright back to the 1950's or so.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
What you "illegal is illegal" types always forget is that the law can and does change. In the last twenty years it has unfortunitly changed to harm the consumer and help the corperation.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
Well, maybe you didnt make anything worth buying? History is littered with the failures of those who made a product no one deemed worthy of buying. You arent "owed" a living just because you chose to make and sell a product. Perhaps it was a "statement" that you wasted 9 months on something no one wanted. Sorry, thems the breaks.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
Find me a majority of people outside of the business that think predatory lawsuits for file sharing is ethical and moral. The RIAA and MPAA need to take a look in the mirror.
I'm sorry you were not able to create business plan that gave people a reason to buy. You should not work for free. No one pays the entrepreneur and hourly rate when they are in development. The reap the rewards later. The community here at Techdirt are willing to help. You can contact Mike directly.
"When your conscience says law is immoral, don't follow it." —Jack Kevorkian, MD
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
If your work was of real value I'm sure that those who made the copies you complain about would have wanted to pay you. If your work wasn't good enough to make them want to pay - then it wasn't good enough - end of story.
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
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Re: Illegal is Illegal
Stealing is stealing, whether a physical item or a digital copy.
Except it's not stealing, it's infringement. Legally, they are very different. For example, a coyright infringer cannot be charged with selling stolen goods.
Morally, they are even more different:
I don't appreciate the RIAA and MPAA tactics, but the law is on their side... as well as the ethical and moral grounds.
The law may be, but not the ethical and moral grounds. Not by a long shot.
Stealing isn't wrong because "people get stuff for free." People getting stuff for free is fundamentally ethical. If we can allow people to get stuff for free, we are ethically bound to do so.
What makes stealing wrong is when it deprives others of things. If I steal your car, it's not wrong because I get a free car, it's wrong because you no longer have your car.
So, copyright itself is closer to "theft" than infringement is. You are depriving others of copyrighted material, even though you would still have that material if you let them copy it.
I am someone who had his property stolen by many people through electronic means and was never compensated for nine months of intense labor. It was basically a statement by others that I should work for free... and they were wrong, are wrong and always will be wrong.
If that's what the "thieves" actually said, then that's too bad, but it would mean your customer relations might be a bigger problem than infringement.
Regardless: you seem to be giving a "sweat of the brow" argument, and that argument does not hold water, legally or morally. The reason is that nobody "owes" you for the work you do. It's not anyone else's job to pay you. It's your job to convince them to pay you.
Now, does this mean that you should work for free? Of course not. Working for free is not some sort of moral imperative. You can, and should, find an ethical way to convince others to pay for your labor. But if you can't, that's nobody's business but your own.
...But ethics aside, the law certainly is on Brown's side. And if you do want to prevent file sharing, then what he did is absolutely the best way to go about doing that. And cudos to both parties for actually being civil.
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Morally, he's right. It is wrong to use someones work without asking. If it should be illegal is a completely different issue though, and I believe it shouldn't be. His is flawed because he's fighting a losing battle, he even alludes to the fact in his text. If you're fighting a losing battle, you retreat, regroup, rethinking what you're doing, and find a different way to win(get paid). No matter how morally right you are, the only answer otherwise is to be slaughtered.
Her argument is that by hearing his work, people may become interested in it, and pay for other recordings and sheetmusic of it later. Technically possible, but improbable because as you assert later on down in the article, that side of the business is dieing because of actions like hers. The way to capitalize on that shifts to him figuring out how to get people to pay, but that isn't her argument, hers is that hopefully somewhere somehow people will pay for what shes taking for free.
Both arguments are flawed to some degree. His because he's fighting from a position he knows he can't win from, but keeps trying because he has a "moral high ground" that's meaningless. Hers because she didn't take the thought process to its logical conclusion which would invalidate a couple of her assertions.
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Re:
Well yes and no. Certainly there is an element of "give it away and pray" to Eleanor's argument, but it isn't entirely without merit.
At first glance it isn't obvious why anyone would pay for a copy when they already have one they downloaded - do they have money to burn? Nevertheless some *do* pay.
The reason they pay is not so much that they are paying for the existing work, but more that they implicitly understand that they are paying to fund the artist's *next* creation.
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Re:
Here, I'll quibble. It is sometimes moral to use someone's work without asking- for example, comment, criticism, news, transformation.
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Re: Re:
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Wrong Assumptions
As the owner of his work, he has the right to set a value for it. The value he assigns to it may be completely wrong, but it's also wrong for someone else to force their valuation on him. He doesn't believe that the value of random people promoting his work is worth the money that he would get by insisting that people pay a fee. Whether he's correct in that assessment is irrelevant.
If I see a print of some artwork I like and it's marked out of my price range, I could ask the artist if he would give me a print and in exchange I would display it prominently and hand out his business card to everyone that looked at it. Shouldn't he be free to say "No, I don't think what you're offering is worth it"? Am I entitled to steal it from him just because I can't afford it? Making bad or unpopular business decisions isn't evil. I'm not going to perish without a copy of that print and the teen in question isn't going to have her life destroyed if she doesn't get the sheet music she wants.
If something is available for free, legally or illegally, it changes its market value. Some people who might have paid for it will take the free copy. Other people who wouldn't have purchased it will try the free copy and decide they like it enough to pay for it. It is incorrect to assume that offering a particular item for free will always result in a positive result for the seller.
In some cases, limited availability makes items worth more, for example Transformers DLC code. It turns out the company was going to release that content eventually in an add-on anyone could purchase. Is there any doubt that the price of that add-on will have to be significantly less than $100 to make any money? If the composer's sheet music wasn't available anywhere for free, could he charge $10 for it instead of $4 and still sell enough copies to make a living?
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Re: Wrong Assumptions
No, he doesn't. In a free market system it's up to the market to set a value.
it's also wrong for someone else to force their valuation on him.
Sorry, that's the way free markets work.
Considering your demonstrated lack of understanding of even basic free market economics, I'm going to ignore the rest of your tripe comment.
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Re: Re: Wrong Assumptions
Your pedigreed potbelly pig may in your view have a price much higher than the going market value for ham and bacon. Should you be forced to sell your pedigreed piglets for meat value instead of breeding value? One of the houses in my neighborhood was on the market for two years because the owner priced it way over its value. Of course they had to drop the price to sell it, but it was their choice to do so.
You could argue that the composer's music isn't his property, but if you agree that it is his property, it follows that he has the right to decide under what conditions that property is exchanged. In some circumstances, it may be necessary to force someone to give up their property for a price they don't set, but "I want it and can't afford the price you're asking" isn't one of those circumstances. "You've got the cure for AIDS and hundreds of thousands of people will die unnecessarily if you don't offer it for a fair price" might be one.
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Does the fact that less technology is involved somehow make it morally superior?
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Re:
yes. the internet is scary, and it's a tool for disrespectful teenagers to disrespect things.
libraries are old fashioned. that automatically makes it good. the internet is modern. therefore, it is bad.
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Re:
1. Not duplicated
and therefore
2. Can not be in two peoples hands at once.
Not saying the logic isn't flawed. Just saying that I would hypothesis that this is his reasoning.
-CF
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Re:
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So... if my math is right, p2p could have prevented the oil spill in the gulf!! :)
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Re:
The library is an old concept, to it is morally ok to use it.
P2P is a new concept, so it is immoral to use it.
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Re: Re:
I think it's more of a technophobe vs tech savvy thing than age.
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Re: Re: Re:
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Sure
by Dag, Jul 6th, 2010 @ 5:40am
No matter how one slices it or attempts to justify actions, what is illegal is illegal.
----------
So simple isn't it? All people should do what's legal. MLK should have obeyed the law. All people should. No? You just want people to obey the laws you agree with? OK I won't use MLK. You always drive 25 in a 25 zone? Either do I. It's just not as simple as "the law's the law".
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Re: Sure
MLK broke the law knowing that there would be consequences in hope of bringing attention to the injustice colored people (primarily) where experiencing.
Most people who speed (myself included) are doing so out of ignorance (not paying attention), complacency, or just a flat out disregard for the rules of the road.
There is really no comparison between the two scenarios.
One could argue that copying copy-righted material is done as hope of being caught so that attention can be brought to the "injustices" of the RIAA and the laws they purport to operate under. But in reality most people who copy are not trying to change the world - they are trying to get a piece of art that they don't want to pay for.
Regardless of the reason, illegal is illegal.
-CF
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Re: Re: Sure
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Re: Re: Sure
-CF"
Wow, really? You dont see the revolution happening right before your eyes? You honestly believe the Law is the Law and is sacrosanct? I'm sure the Founding Fathers would be thrilled to see what has become of their ideals embodied in people like you. They were traitors, you know. Treasonous traitors to The Crown. What they did was highly illegal.
I'm sure that argument would have worked perfectly at the Nuremberg trials, right? Oh wait, thats right, it didnt. I'm sure if a superior officer ordered a lower rank soldier to shoot his bunkmate in the head without a trial, it would be OK with you because its "the law" to follow the orders of a superior regardless.
And no, I am NOT comparing file sharing to a fight for freedom (only in general terms). I am highlighting the absurdity of The Law being absolute, just because its The Law. Its not, and has ALWAYS been subject to revision or civil disobedience. The CONSTITUTION ITSELF calls for OVERTHROW of the Govt if deemed necessary. So, please, stop the absurd rhetoric about The Law being above all.
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Re: Re: Re: Sure
and they were also freeloaders trying to benefit from the British military expenditure which had cleared their western frontier of other European settlements without paying for it. Without those earlier British military actions the Northern half of America would resemble the southern.
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After all you have someone who suddenly has to compete with their own work. This instantly means this isn't going to be as "no issue" as "Internet People" would like to think.
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Something to note; he did say that 50% of his income comes from sheet music. I have no idea how many of those buyers are teenagers, of course.
He also specified that "the entire record business is in free-fall" which you point out and then switch to "music business" in your response. The record business is in a free-fall; however the record business just makes up one portion of the music business.
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Really???
Get a friggin' job and pay for what you want! How is that such a difficult concept?
I bet if little Eleanor worked, she would expect to get paid!
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Re: Really???
All that nonsense about Starbucks, etc., is just silly.
Furthermore, if Elenor worked, I bet she'd expect to get paid *once*, as do most people without entitlement issues.
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Re: Really???
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Can you make the argument that the content creator is harming himself? Sure. Can/should you choose free sources over those that charge? Sure. Should you use the content without paying for it just because you can? Abso-friggin'-lutely not.
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Re:
> The creator/licensee of the work is asking a price for its use. Either I pay that pay that price or I do without the work
The problem I have is the second statement is an economic argument but not necessarily a moral one.
Suppose we define "morally wrong" to be some action that benefits me at the expense of someone else (in this case the creator). Then you certainly might argue that if I had the means to purchase the work but chose to download it instead, then that would be morally wrong.
However suppose I lacked the means to buy the work, but I believed that by helping to promote the work via p2p it would result in someone else attending a concert that they would not otherwise have considered? Does it then make it morally wrong for me *not* to share the work?
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Nope. But nice try on crafting an argument that attempts to make you *obligated* to share art work against the wishes of the artist.
-CF
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I would say there is strong case for that obligation, certainly prior to a copyright-like system, and possibly even with it -- that it is your moral duty to share, even against the creators wishes.
Because the good done by the copy outweighs the harm done to the creator, indeed the creator may not be even aware of the copy, in which case no harm is even possible. Also, how can it be justified that a copier have their personal freedom constrained by someone else? Surely such a material imposition needs more than the creator's feeling of offense, or mere wish to control, to justify it.
There is a sense that something like politeness is due, but hardly more, and that leaves plenty of latitute for differences of opinion, and doesn't give the final word to the creator.
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The ideal often expressed here is that creators need to figure out a business model that allows them to profit from their works. I'm not much of a creator (although I hope to be eventually) so I really value and admire that creative effort. I'm willing to pay for content, even though it is infinitely abundant, because I want to reward the N hours that went into producing it. Say it takes a year for a band of 4 people to produce an album. That's 8,000 or more man-hours of work. From my perspective, that's the SERVICE that the band provides. The music is what makes that band valuable and I want to reward them FOR THE MUSIC. I could care less about the band's t-shirt, the liner notes in the CD case, or having lunch with the band. Those are goods that don't interest me. Buying CD's or downloads, even if they're "infinite," rewards the service itself.
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That only stands if one assumes a copyright system. Freedom of copying makes no necessary implication that the creator cannot be fully paid for all the effort and resources needed for production.
And if you want to pay, as you say, *for the music*, funding production projects more directly (however that might be) makes more sense than paying for copies. That would seem the ideal form, morally and economically, though the actualities of implementation I cannot judge.
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Re:
How can that possibly be? Benefiting yourself economically is doing yourself good -- that can't be bad. It could only possibly be bad, hence immoral, if that good act necessarily also did harm somewhere/somehow else.
If we look at the act in question -- copying -- purely in itself, prior to any system like copyright, does it seem bad/immoral? Copying removes nothing, it only adds, so, assuming the item copied is good, it only does good -- whatever good was originally there, the copy adds to the sum, and it does so at virtually no expense, in itself. Copying art seems very much moral: really it is your moral duty to spread such things.
One might say the original creator has rights to control copies, does that not affect the moral status of copying? I would say, marginally, and overall, insufficiently. The good done by spreading copies of good art is substantial, and also, the act of copying is entirely within the copiers scope of personal freedom. Yet the possible harm done by going against a creator's wishes seems significantly less substantial -- it is a feeling that might even be no more than convention. Also for a creator to stop a copier is to materially impose on their personal freedom, which seems unjustified merely by an emotion.
So copying can only be immoral within a wider system like copyright. But then its immorality is entirely dependent on the morality or not of copyright. So first you must show that copyright is moral. And that is very dubious . . .
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Re:
He absolutely doesn't. There can be no moral right to have your cake and eat it (sell something and still have it).
Unfortunately copyright was invented long after the time of those who have set our moral codes (Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed) so nowhere is there a definitive answer - however as a Christian I believe that all creative abilities are given to us by God, they do not belong to us in the first place and it says in Matthew (10: 8) "Freely you have received, freely give."
This doesn't mean that it is morally right to infringe copyright - but it does mean that it is morally wrong to impose it.
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I htink its more obnoxious
ANY so called artist that teh first whine out of his mouth is about money ...is NOT AN ARTIST and SHOULD LOSE ALL COPYRIGHTS
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It's really simple ......
If the person downloaded your sheet music, odds are they never intended to buy any music in the first place. They grabbed the best “free” sheet music they could for the need they were trying to fill. Would you rather it be yours or someone elses.
If they play your songs at a school play, suddenly hundreds of potential customers are now exposed to your music, if they share it online, your talking millions. Get them hooked, get them excited, then offer them something they cannot copy. Such as signed CD’s, personal appearances, hell… even lunch with the composer, there are hundreds of other streams of revenue you could tap. I think you would be surprised how much money one can make that way and still give the “pirate” customer what they want.
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Re: It's really simple ......
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Re: Re: It's really simple ......
A bargain was made in the belief that content creators needed incentive to create, so we limit *who* can distribute it in an effort to have *more* to distribute.
The bargain has been changed repeatedly in such ways that it no longer performs its original function. (in fact, the exact opposite)
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Re: Re: It's really simple ......
Before technology he would have had to do exactly that for all of his income. The issue is who gets to benefit from technology? Since the artistic community didn't create the technology they don't have any automatic claim on it's fruits.
My observation is that composers from the pre-technical age continued to write better and better music till the ends of their lives - whereas modern musicians (if they enjoy popular success) seem to stop producing anything of value past their early 30's. (That is if they haven't contrived to kill themselves through excess at the age of 27.)
I wonder what would have happened if we had had an instant transition from no tech to current tech - without going through the era of the printing and record presses.
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Market failure
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Re: Market failure
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Grats Brown! Keep up the good work
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technology is not the artist's work
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unknown
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Who is he?
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Re:
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And you wonder why people call you a moron?
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Re:
If the performer isn't getting paid for her art, why should the composer get paid as well? She's using the music for an audition or talent show with no remuneration. She's a student, this is her education, and it's entirely fair use.
It would be different if she were selling tickets and collecting revenue. Then by all means she should share with the composer - much more than the $3.99 cost of a measly score.
I wished he hadn't had the conversation with a student but with a professional performer. Then it wouldn't seem so one sided, and her arguments about free promotion would make a lot more sense.
I know about Jason Robert Brown because I buy tickets to see people perform his plays and music, not because I buy his sheet music. A composer is nothing without performers.
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Worth the pennies?
I'm not sure whether the sheet music the accompanist used that day was paid for. Unsurprisingly I didn't think to wonder! No permissions were requested or fees paid to record the material. And I suppose I am asking for trouble by having the work up on my website which I put there only as an example of something I considered worth hearing.
The recordings were made purely for educational purpose by a vocal tutor in order to let her students hear their progress. No one made any money other than the usual small charge paid to the studio for facilities hire.
I hadn't heard of Jason Robert Brown before then but on account of the free and easy way music is circulated in my environment (nothing new there) I have now. The few people who clicked on my web post to listen will also know of him when they hadn't previously. No doubt our actions will be in breach of something sacred. Is it wise to deny a little exposure for the sake of a few pennies. I think not.
Credit to the guy however for the respectful way he conducted this discourse. Although I am partly understanding of his position my overall sympathies are with Eleanor and the intelligence of her case. It is her generation who will take things to a new and enlightened place.
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(Others of his commenters point out that you can easily buy prepaid credit cards with cash in retail stores; but if this teenager couldn't even figure out how to download Brown's complete sheet music from bittorrent once he's stopped the sharing of his stuff on this site...)
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PianoFiles
Even though I prefer to pay for what I want, I've ended up using the site quite often, because what I'm mostly interested in are film scores. The actual recording scores for most films are never released anywhere. You can find piano arrangements of the "Star Wars" theme or the "Raiders March", for example, but the actual orchestral scores that John Williams used to record the music in the films have never been published. They're locked away in a vault somewhere and mostly likely will be forever. The studios almost never allow them to be commercially published. They don't even deposit a copy of the scores in the Library of Congress as they're technically required to do.
Thanks to some enterprising insiders over the years, a lot of this material has been copied and scanned and leaked and is only available for trade among fans of the genre on sites like PianoFiles. I would *love* it if 20th Century Fox would take John Williams' scores for the entire Star Wars saga and professionally engrave them and publish them in nicely bound volumes. I'd pay a lot of money for such a thing. But since they won't do that, I have no moral problem obtaining bootleg versions of the handwritten manuscripts.
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Let Z be an integer such that when M is given Z as an input Z' produces an integer which can be interpreted as "Rhapsody in Blue".
Prove there is a value for Z' for which no Z exists as a literal constant.
You. Cannot. Invent. Numbers.
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The sadness of academia.
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WHO??
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How would you like it if someone decided to create a competing nonprofit website to techdirt.com and did so by just copying your articles verbatim? How would you feel if this website which copied your articles resulted in a loss of revenue to you and to those that work with you? Would you sue? If so, then don't play the hypocrite with other people's revenue. When the money comes out of your pocket because someone else is ripping off your work, then it hurts.
If you stand by your argument, then please publish a blanket authorization that removes all techdirt articles from any copyright protections whatsoever.
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Re:
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Re:
mike has said over and over again to copy his material. he knows that there is no value in it, except possibly for himself.
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Re:
If you stand by your argument, then please publish a blanket authorization that removes all techdirt articles from any copyright protections whatsoever."
Hey jerkwad, maybe you are new here or something, but Mike has REPEATEDLY said he has no problem with someone doing this. His stance is, if someone were to do this, eventually people would realize which site was the TRUE originator of the material, and the copy site would be seen for what it was: a poor copy of the original. He isnt a hypocrite, so you can just STFU now.
And he cant remove copyright protections, because thanks to your Big Corp Buddies bribing...I mean, lobbying, the US Congress, copyright is now AUTOMATIC upon creation, and cant be revoked (1976 copyright act, at the behest of Big Media. You reap what you sow).
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Re:
Many people have, and that's great. They are free to do so.
How would you feel if this website which copied your articles resulted in a loss of revenue to you and to those that work with you?
That seems unlikely because we have designed our business model such that the more people who know about our content -- even if they don't see it on our site, the more money we make.
There is no "loss of revenue." What you might be saying is that what if another site presented our content in a better way such that our traffic went there. This seems unlikely, but if it happened it would be free market research for us and we would need to adapt.
Would you sue?
What?!? Sue someone for promoting our work? Hell no!
If so, then don't play the hypocrite with other people's revenue. When the money comes out of your pocket because someone else is ripping off your work, then it hurts.
You seem to have ascribed to me views I do not have. Please retract them and admit you were wrong.
If you stand by your argument, then please publish a blanket authorization that removes all techdirt articles from any copyright protections whatsoever.
Sure. I have done so many times, but since you apparently missed it, here's one:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090116/0348223430.shtml
All of our work is in the public domain. If you would like to use it to promote us for free, please do so. Thanks!
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http://www.jasonrobertbrown.com/weblog/2010/06/fighting_with_teenagers_a_copy.php
No one is entitled to the air they breath but they have a right to it. But what Brown is not entitled to is a monopoly on anything. Perhaps legally but certainly not morally. I have a natural and moral right to whatever music I want to download for free.
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Online Libraries
I have said over and over: As a copyrighted artist/composer and a user of information on the internet. I would gladly pay a small monthly fee to be able to access copyrighted material and either view, listen or read on my computer. What is the problem? They can charge for everything else but they can't levy a simple library access fee.
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Re: Online Libraries
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Re: Online Libraries
Who the hell is going to pay for the staff time and the equipment to locate, scan, taxonomize, organise, store, backup, and provide seamless but protected (and legal!) access to this material? Volunteers? pffft. You can't give proper library work to volunteers. A project like that is massive, and would need to be done by professional people with an eye for detail and a "get it right" attitude that volunteers do not possess.
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Re: Re: Online Libraries
That would just be financial suicide, doomed to failure.
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Re: Re: Online Libraries
Yeah, anyone who would think something like that could work would probably also think that free software could work.
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NO they are tired of the long terms that shuold not exist and pver p[ricing and gouging going on. YOUR a communist if you dont allow the free market to rock n roll
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Moral
It's illegal no matter what because laws are bought and paid for and the people who can't afford the content, can't afford to pay for the laws.
Actually, "Copyright" isn't even a "right", it's an exception to the Public's rights. ANY and ALL ideas/content, no matter how created, are no ones sole possession. All people have the right to use any idea. BUT, since our society is immorally greedy, we made an economic incentive via a *temporary* exception that is marginally greater than our right.
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Re: Moral
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Re: Re: Moral
That's what the "donate" button is for. Brought to you by the Free Internet.
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Re: Re: Re: Moral
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Re: Moral
Copyrights and patents are immoral.
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whatever
It sounds like this "artist" has gotten very comfortable just sitting around being lazy and watching their bank account balance magically increase.
The vast majority of us actually have to work hard for our money. Thusly, we will choose to support artists that deserve our hard earned money.
Most content out there is crap these days, and maybe one day when artists are forced to work harder to earn a loving, then we'll decide if they deserve our money.
If you're a starving artist, get off your lazy ass and get a real job. You're obviously not doing very well if you have no choice but to try to force people to pay for your crap.
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He Doesn't Compete
I noticed the site he linked to uses proprietary formats and DRM. I have emailed them asking if I could download the music in a standard and unencumbered format since I'm paying in standard and unencumbered cash. Maybe we should invent DCM (Digital Cash Management) where the person paying controls how the recipient can use or invest the cash once they're paid. Wouldn't that be a fair exchange for a DRM-laden product?
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Re: He Doesn't Compete
Beautiful. Yes.
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Re: Re: He Doesn't Compete
Seconded. All in favor say "Aye". :)
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Re: Re: Re: He Doesn't Compete
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Unstoppable
I had to stand before a moral (versus technology) choice not too long ago, even though it's far from the good ol' music vs p2p. The company I work for were looking to make things more effecient, and we had about 50 people we were looking to "cut". Technology made it possible for us to "let them go". Was it morally justified? No. Was it unstoppable? Yes. And I am certain we can let go of even more workforce in the future. So I guess some will benefit more than others from technology depending on the context, but in the music industry, a lot of people will; both consumers and actors from "within".
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Secondly, he advocates breaking the law by circumventing copyright law and copying music to multiple formats. What exactly is the difference between an automated conversion of format from one form to an mp3 and a form to sheet music? Both could theoretically be played via a computer and ripped from a cd via mechanical means.
He is also fairly condescending to the girl, he admitted she took the shares off then berated her for doing ever being interested in him. It's ridiculous.
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I've had a major argument
I had a couple long arguments with Gavin on Twitter - which is a bit hard to do in 140 characters! He had no new arguments, or any arguments at all basically, other than accusing file sharers of "theft, theft, theft" and complaining that file sharing is killing the industry and all the industry people he knows hate it. All of which, of course, simply isn't true.
There's no arguing with people who are fearful of their livelihood (or in his case, his wife's livelihood, since he's a rich tort lawyer himself.)
The problem with the "theft" argument is that the promoters don't realize that they're basically conflating the notion that they have a right to be compensated with the notion that they have a right to a SALE - which is not the same thing at all.
If I buy a hammer, then loan it to my neighbor to solve his problem, I have deprived the hammer manufacturer of a SALE. But I have NOT stolen his PROPERTY. He can still sell his property to someone else and be compensated. If everybody who buys a hammer loans it out, his business will be severely impacted. But is it theft? Hardly.
This is something nobody seems to comprehend. The issue of intellectual property is an attempt to extend the concept of contract law over the more basic concept of property. It is by definition an attempt to control the behavior of people. And when coded into state law, it is by definition a coercive limit on freedom. One could argue that if it were done by explicit contract, it would be valid. But it's not done that way - it's done by legal fiat. I have no valid contract with anyone when I download a file. The person who originally bought the file I downloaded has no explicit contract with the author to not loan out the purchaser's property.
It might be useful to counter those yelling "theft" by yelling back "dictator" since their intent is to control your behavior for their benefit without compensation to you and in the absence of any rational contract. This is coercion plain and simple as much as stealing a CD from a store!
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As I read this I am left with the conviction that you will only accept as a legitimate position one that agrees with you, and that upon the composer doing so he will have finally left the dark side and entered into the light of enlightenment.
There is a likelihood you will respond when I say that the position you espouse and apply to the composer represents self-satisfied arrogance.
My daughter likewise is a musical theater stage performer, and whenever she is in need of sheet music she obtains it either through the public library of by payment and download from authorized websites. If it cannot be found by these means, she simply moves on and finds something else.
Something seems terribly wrong when doing that which is right and consistent with law is viewed by some as foolish and unwise.
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Re:
As I have stated repeatedly, if there is evidence to prove me wrong, present it. Otherwise, I make my position clear based on the data I have at hand. And based on that, it appears that Brown is on the wrong side of the argument and I will state that. It is clearly my opinion.
Would you really expect me to say that someone who blatantly disagrees with what all the evidence suggests must be right because he says so without presenting any evidence?
My daughter likewise is a musical theater stage performer, and whenever she is in need of sheet music she obtains it either through the public library of by payment and download from authorized websites. If it cannot be found by these means, she simply moves on and finds something else.
Good for her. That has nothing to do with anything, of course, but you must be very, very proud. I too do not purposely violate copyright laws at any time. I have never used a file sharing program to download (or upload) an unauthorized work. So what? That doesn't mean I cannot still point out the problem with these laws, does it?
Something seems terribly wrong when doing that which is right and consistent with law is viewed by some as foolish and unwise.
No one said that doing what is consistent with the law is foolish, but nice doublespeak.
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Apparently you are unaware of how studies work.
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Before crafting a rebuttal, please reflect upon how many times you have offered to readers of this site that these studies prove patents/copyrights hinder progress. While you may later say "but I have an open mind that will entertain contrary conclusions", it seems that this qualification is generally lost on readers who jump on the initial statement with a cacophony of "Right on! Tell it like it is!".
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Re:
Let us examine the example you give. If you got a copy by unauthorised means when otherwise unavailable, you would gain: you get something useful you didn't have before. But on the other side, since it was a copy and not a physical item, and since the copy was otherwise unavailable, there was no subtraction anywhere, nor even the vaguest sense of 'potential loss'. Overall there was a significant gain, and and no loss at all.
Now the question you should ask is: why should the law make this wrong, when it clearly does good? and further: even if the creator did make less money, is that outweighed by the public benefiting from more access to copies? or: would the whole system work better if the creator makes the copies free and sells something else?
If you honestly think through the ramifications of those, you will reach an inevitable conclusion. The current laws and system are on shaky ground. Copyright needs modification, or maybe abolition, or just obsolescence, and that there are gains to be had from adapting and improving ways of doing business.
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Oh, so she STEALS it! Libraries are just a form of legalized theft!
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Intangible Goods Sold As Single-Use Goods
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Just curious...
Temporal works, like songs and movies, lose their value over time and exposure. Hammers, on the other hand, can be "owned" and used over and over again without devaluation. Also, making a fast-food hamburger requires less time, creativity and talent than composing.
(BTW TechDirt is not a creative work. It's simply Mike M commenting on someone else's journalistic efforts. It's a lot easier making that free for the taking than a multimillion dollar movie.)
The essence of the original debate is NOT that file sharing ain't a form of stealing (it is, simply because the rules under which we're supposed to live by say it is--all else is rationalization); it's that an intellectual property can no longer be "owned," as Chris pointed out, and creative people are threatened because the familiar ways of earning a living are quickly becoming obsolete.
For the artists out there, how are you making a living? t-shirts? Lunch with fans? Custodial work (alongside the hard working BruceLD)? Are you producing hammers, burgers or something else?
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Re: Just curious...
The "creative" person who had the arguement with the teenager compared his work to a screwdriver.
Temporal works, like songs and movies, lose their value over time and exposure. Hammers, on the other hand, can be "owned" and used over and over again without devaluation.
I think you have that backwards, my friend. I can listen to a song or read sheet music over and over and over without it falling into disrepair. However, there is a finite amount of time I can use a hammer before it breaks, oxidises or becomes otherwise unusable.
Furthermore, I can copy a digital good nearly infinitely without the need of many resources, however if I were to attempt to copy a hammer, I would need its raw matierals and a way to process them every time. (This is the root of the IP vs Real Property issue, btw)
(BTW TechDirt is not a creative work. It's simply Mike M commenting on someone else's journalistic efforts.
Your opinion is noted. However, as far as copyright law is concerned, Mike's posts are copyrightable, even though he chooses to release them to the public domain.
The essence of the original debate is NOT that file sharing ain't a form of stealing (it is, simply because the rules under which we're supposed to live by say it is--all else is rationalization)
The laws we are "supposed" to live by say that theft and copyright infringement are different-- otherwise the **AA would be going after people for theft, yes? Calling it stealing is simply a cheap way to link a negative idea to another action. Like saying that strip miners are raping the earth. Well, they're *not* actually raping the earth.
it's that an intellectual property can no longer be "owned," as Chris pointed out, and creative people are threatened because the familiar ways of earning a living are quickly becoming obsolete.
There was a time when people were actually paid to bring ice to people's homes. When at home refrigeration became affordable, those men and women suddenly found themselves facing unemployment. Should those businesses have formed a group called the Retail Ice Association of America (RIAA) and lobbied to outlaw refrigerators because they "deserve" to get paid? Of course not. So why is it different with a song, a book, or a movie? (Hint: it's not.)
For the artists out there, how are you making a living? t-shirts? Lunch with fans? Custodial work (alongside the hard working BruceLD)? Are you producing hammers, burgers or something else?
This, I can't answer for you. The reality is that there is no one size fits all answer. As it turns out, it is going to take creativity to make a living being creative. :)
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Re: Re: Just curious...
Well said, Infamous Joe.
Regarding the screwdriver comment: I don't know that guy. He cheapens his work to say it.
Regarding the hammer: I bought one in 2002 and it still works. I saw The Bourne Identity in 2002 but now don't care to see it. It was worth it to pay $$ to see Bourne in the theater, but not now. I wouldn't take the time to watch it for free. And I wouldn't have paid anything in 2002 if I saw it for free. A film has a limited time to be valuable.
Regarding stealing: Yeah, you're right -- it was a cheap way to link a negative idea. But all over TechDirt people are making cheap links between art forms and non-art forms to rationalize their argument. Everything from hammers to hamburgers to strip mining.
File sharing seems more like kids who peek their heads under the circus tents for a free performance. They know it's wrong but the technology (tent fabric) allows them to do so. Only here they don't claim that it's wrong -- rather, it's an infringement, not a crime; it's not moral issue; everybody's doing it; it's greedy management's fault; nothing physical was stolen; my word of mouth will generate more viewings; etc.
Yeah, yeah -- circuses will go the way of the ice handlers (another non-art form comparison btw) and so will our current copyright system. That's why I wanted to hear from artists. How are they being creative to survive?
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Re: Re: Re: Just curious...
A film has a limited time to be valuable.
Yes, but a *very* quick look online shows that thousands of people are still sharing that movie, so not only is it still worth watching to them, but it's worth breaking the law to share it with others. We, in the sane world, call those people True Fans. Not even the threat of legal action will stop them from making it easier for more people to enjoy that movie. From your side of the coin, they are "pirates" or "thieves". I don't care what business you're in, if you turn on your most enthusiastic fans, you will fail. (with the possible exception of Apple fans, who seem to get shit on by Apple at every turn and come back for more. Maybe Steve Jobs poops ice cream or something, I dunno. :P )
But all over TechDirt people are making cheap links between art forms and non-art forms to rationalize their argument.
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I am not focusing on the micro-level of art vs. non-art because it doesn't matter. I am drawing parallels from other businesses that have been made obsolete (or, perhaps, just more efficient) because of advances in technology. I know it sucks to be on the pointy end of this technology advancement, but rest assured it will be better for society as a whole. That's basic economics.
Right and Wrong have very little to do with economics. It's wrong to lay off an employee who has been working for the company for 20 years only to replace him with a recently-graduated kid for half the pay. But it makes since, from a business standpoint. Although clearly not *everyone* is doing it, the fact remains that copyright infringement is not going away. It's just not. Ever. So, you can alienate your fans and sue them until you're out of money, you can use file sharing to your advantage, or you can get a new job doing something else. Thems the breaks.
How are they being creative to survive?
Techdirt has shown many examples of artists experimenting with new ways to make a living in the digital world (in fact, as I type this twitter popped up and told me they are having a seminar on exactly this subject) however, I don't know if there is a simple search to hunt them down, or if you have to scroll through past articles manually.
I have to say, it is nice to have a civil discussion about this topic. :)
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Same here, Infamous. Overall, I think it's going to be a not-so-horrible future for artists. Less money but more opportunity. Right now, though, I rely on current copyright laws to prevent my work from being pilfered. Credit is everything. I get nervous when it seems that the people who insist the loudest on making changes have relatively few risks. I think of the actor, writer or inventor who dies in poverty while everyone enjoys their work.
Anyways. I'll keep digging in TechDirt.
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Re: Just curious...
I could create a rap song with far less time and effort than it would take for me to make a hamburger. Are you just trying to prove that you don't know what you're talking about? Congratulations, then.
BTW TechDirt is not a creative work. It's simply Mike M commenting on someone else's journalistic efforts.
You IP trolls are really a wacky bunch.
It's a lot easier making that free for the taking than a multimillion dollar movie.
I could make a multimillion dollar movie in a day, maybe less. Don't believe me? Give me a few million and I'll prove it.
The essence of the original debate is NOT that file sharing ain't a form of stealing (it is, simply because the rules under which we're supposed to live by say it is--all else is rationalization)
The rules we live under are called "laws", and the law says it isn't. Of course, IP trolls live to lie.
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Re: Re: Re: Just curious...
Go look in a mirror.
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Brown and the teenager
If he had, or had simply sent her a copy as a favor, he wouldn't be getting all this publicity, would he?
For that matter, I wonder about Brown and the fact that he "just happened" to email an unknown teenager??? Unknown by whom; Brown? Doubt it.
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You want his music, fine, pay the 3.99 and download it, but what does she say?? that's right, we wont pay for it, but we wanted it, so we will just download it illegally, which is "insignificantly negative"
The freeloader mentality has no regard for law or other peoples hard work, they feel entitled to get it for free
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Did she somehow make him do something?
Oh, and you do realize that no proof of "hard work" is required for a copyright, don't you? So that's totally irrelevant anyway.
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Solution? Return to a economy based on tangible goods.
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infringement
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