Judge Rejects Attempt To Fine Family For Picking Up Discarded Air Conditioning Unit
from the how-is-this-even-allowed? dept
The privacy geeks out there are all very familiar with the famous Supreme Court case California vs. Greenwood, which established the point that, once you've put stuff out for garbage collection, you have relinquished it as your own personal property. But that case focused on the 4th Amendment issues of things like warrants. In theory, there could still be laws unrelated to the issue in the Greenwood case concerning who can and cannot take the garbage you've set out. And apparently, New York City has just such a law, making it illegal to take appliances or air conditioners. There may be many reasons for this (safety, for one), but it seems like a pretty ridiculous law to try to enforce, either way. However, apparently in NYC, they actually pay people to sit and watch appliances that people have thrown out.That's what led to a woman and her son getting charged with a $4,000 fine for picking up a discarded air conditioner. The Consumerist lets us know that, thankfully, a judge has tossed this fine. There are so many ridiculous angles to this case, even if you believe the law is reasonable. First, two people were fined. The guy who picked up the air conditioning unit... and his aunt, who owned the car, but was not in it at the time. That seems pretty questionable as well. It's a bad application of liability. Just because the nephew put the AC unit in the car, why should the aunt be subject to the fine?
The bigger issue, though, is the fact that NYC, which is having financial problems, actually pays people to watch appliances that people are throwing out. The original Daily News article includes a great quote from the nephew:
"Our city is going bankrupt and we are using our tax dollars to pay these guys to stare at appliances all day," he said. "How do I get a job like that?"
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Filed Under: garbage, laws, new york city, trash
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You're stupid!
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How to get a job like that?
I don't understand why some people think the government doesn't work like this. If they're too irresponsible to spend money in a reasonable manner, why do we still expect them to make reasonable decisions when running the entire state, or country for that matter.
What's really sad is the government employs quite a large percentage (well over 10%) of the US population, and most of them don't do a damn thing!
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Re: How to get a job like that?
What's really sad is the government employs quite a large percentage (well over 10%) of the US population, and most of them don't do a damn thing!
OK this particular case is stupid - but your general charge against the government is nonsense. If you don't like what the government does I suggest you go live somewhere where there isn't one- like Somalia for example.
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Re: How to get a job like that?
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Re: Re: How to get a job like that?
Had I stayed much longer I fear I would have been completely worthless in the private sector. Then I would have been stuck in a system where I would be promoted based on time spent doing nothing in my chair.
There were a few young engineers who would regularly say that they were literally doing nothing all day and would someone PLEASE give tasks. They mostly left with me.
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Re: Re: Re: How to get a job like that?
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Re: Re: How to get a job like that?
Well, when she's there and not escorting detectives into drug dens or finding placement for the mentally ill or begging for funding from Harrisburg for domestic abuse victims or working from home after hours because it's over 100 degrees in the office with no windows that open, a broken elevator, mold in the ceiling and melting electronics that somehow isn't subject to OSHA regs since it's a government-owned building bought on the patronage system.
She's got a good work ethic, cares about doing a good job and those her job can help. She is the person that the above atmosphere practically forces out of government that government desperately needs to be efficient.
Absolutely we need government.
Absolutely we need smartly run government.
We are not getting what we pay for.
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WTF
"Wanted: people with eyes and no motivation whatsoever to do anything useful in their lives"
The demand must have been overwhelming.
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Re: WTF
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Imagine what a totalitarian gov't can do with automation!
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Perhaps he was waiting for HAZMAT to arrive when the 'terrorist' 'stole' the 'device', 'transported' it in a 'suspicious' (because it was not his) vehicle, and attempted to use it to 'alter the environment'.
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Power Corrupts
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Re: Power Corrupts
As for 'overzealous city code enforcement officers,' pretty much the same. Don't like the laws? Get onto city council and change them, yourself. You voted them in. Deal with it.
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see mike, when you dont know what is going on, you can draw the wrong conclusions.
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I notice your comment also doesn't address the second, less defendable, response of someone not even present at the scene being charged.
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There may be many reasons for this (safety, for one)...
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Those 2 part air conditioners when disassembled let the gas loose if you didn't collect it first before disconnecting the tubes.
Have you never owned an air-conditioner?
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Wrong.
-C
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Re: Wrong.
paul, as for the second part of the charge, i suspect that some cities have written into the ordinance charges for the people who send others out to do the illegal collection, and that includes the owners of the vehicles used to do it. is this an overzealous application? perhaps, we dont know because we are going on the basis of a blog entry about a news story.
my only point is there are very valid legal reasons and reasons of public interest why such laws exist. mike tries to make it sound like a huge waste of money hiring people to watch thrown out appliances, but there is a major environmental issue here.
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Re: Re: Wrong.
There is no environmental issue in picking up peoples discarded trash.
Sure scrap collectors *might* vent greenhouse gases illegally, but that is an issue to be addressed with that scrap collector at the time he vents the gases.
Those gases are valuable too, I suspect some scrap collectors legally collect those gasses for additional profit.
Making something illegal because some people might later do something illegal with what they collected is absurd.
Better not be a good environmentalist greenie and pick up that piece of litter blowing by, the city might fine you because you might later illegally discard that litter you picked up.
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Re: Re: Re: Wrong.
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The Tech Implication
The implication, the software company has relinquished "ownership" through abandonment. The software should fall immediately into the public domain.
Another reason for this approach, the consumers who have bought the software have invested significant resources such as time and money. They may want to keep the software functional, so if it falls into the public domain they will have the opportunity to maintain it.
Furthermore, when the company pulls the plug, they have purposely obsoleted what you have invested in. While obsolesce is a fact of life, let the consumer through the public domain decide when a product should gracefully "die".
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Add to the list
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Re: Add to the list
If you can pay someone to make sure that no one removes something that can be a hazard, you should probably be paying them to safely remove the hazard.
So, yes, the job is a stupid, useless, waste of money, whereas health inspectors and police officers serve useful functions.
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own place
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Re: own place
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Seriously, did the air conditioning corporations lobby for these laws?
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i would have to guess that its to pay people to sit and watch this stuff so someone else doesnt get it first so they can afford to have people sitting to watch this stuff so someone else doesnt get it first so they can afford to have people sitting and wat....
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shouldn't they inform people
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Re: shouldn't they inform people
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Right now, I'm sitting in a nice swivel chair I found, staying cool with two slightly beat-up box fans that I grabbed. I found a couple nice standing fans that I use occasionally, not to mention a stack of old computers in various states of operation. Earlier this year, I found a 12-gallon ShopVac that just needed a new switch. I've also found tons of perfectly good CRT monitors, which I prefer on LCD. Last year, I even brought home a mint condition air conditioner which is exactly like the one in my bedroom. It runs perfectly. I'm saving it as a backup. :)
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People who forage, salvage, and keep such stuff "just in case" are embryonic hoarders. Once every room of your home is lined with stuff you've picked up "just in case," you'll be approaching the point of no return.
Seriously, dude -- Just stop. For you own good!
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People who forage, salvage, and keep such stuff "just in case" are embryonic hoarders. Once every room of your home is lined with stuff you've picked up "just in case," you'll be approaching the point of no return.
Seriously, dude -- Just stop. For you own good!
Do you know how hard it is to buy CRT monitors in today's world? When my 19" CRT died, I checked and it's virtually impossible to find new CRTs. So I have a ton of spares. One of the trash ones has already died on me. Why do I dislike LCD? Two words "native resolution". If you don't run your system at the LCD's native resolution, everything has to be scaled to fit the screen. If you do run it at the NR, it can slow your system down having to update such a large screen, especially in games. Not to mention that my CRT monitor will go to a vertical resolution of 1200, while most LCDs stop at 1080, unless you pay an arm and a leg. Plus, most LCDs today are widescreen, which is great for watching movies, but it sucks for playing games (I refuse to distort the image to make it fill the screen).
As for the other stuff, I had to start using the spare fan I brought home as one of the others fell out of the window and a blade broke off. The ShopVac also came in handy recently when I discovered that my normal one wouldn't turn on (wire came off a brush).
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Rent Control
Andrew Cuomo
Traffic
Transportation Monopoly
I find it amazing that they believe everything should be run by the government, including appliance monitoring.
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Which brings me to another point, metal is about the only thing worth recycling. Recycle glass? Do we have a sand shortage in this world? It uses more energy and produces more greenhouse gases to recycle glass than it does to make new bottles. Oh, and composting? More greenhouse gas than burying it in a landfill.
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