Director Jean-Luc Godard Says 'There's No Such Thing As Intellectual Property,' Donates To MP3 Downloader's Defense
from the good-for-him dept
Robert Ring was the first of a bunch of you to send in this BoingBoing post highlighting how famed movie director Jean-Luc Godard doesn't believe in the concept of "intellectual property," and has also contributed 1,000 euros to a French citizen who has been sued for unauthorized sharing of over 13,000 MP3s. The key quote from Godard in highlighting why he's supporting this guy:I am against Hadopi [the French internet-copyright law, or its attendant agency], of course. There is no such thing as intellectual property. I'm against the inheritance [of works], for example. An artist's children could benefit from the copyright of their parents' works, say, until they reach the age of majority... But afterward, it's not clear to me why Ravel's children should get any income from Bolero...It's always nice when successful content creators, who could just suck up to the monopoly privileges the government grants them, recognize that such things may create greater problems for society and culture, and are willing to speak out about it -- or, even better, to put their money behind their beliefs.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: intellectual property, jean-luc godard
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Director Jean-Luc Godard Says....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
After reading IMDB: Holy sh*t he's still working?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ravel's children
The only reason is so that Disney can keep copyright on Cinderella.
Big media has been behind the extension of copyright. The dependents of artist are used as poster children. If big media could figure out a way to extend corporate copyright and cut out the children they would do it in a minute.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It seems to me like he contradicts himself. At first he says there's no such thing as intellectual property (which is itself untrue--there clearly is such a thing). And then he apparently is OK with an artist's children benefiting from IP until the age of majority--so he's OK with IP, at least for a period of time. He can't have it both ways.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but hey, if anti-IP people want to call this a victory, then by all means. Whatever floats your boat.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Anyway, the interpretation I took away from were these:
1. He doesn't believe that IP exists.
2. That if it does exist for any length of time, there has to be a limit and not the indefinite period currently being pushed by IP maximalists.
They're both opinions, of course, but here we see yet another conflict between the IP industry who claim "for the artists" and artists themselves.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
Well that might be the case if you actually read what he said with any kind of reading comprehension with regard to the manner in which people phrase things. Let me help you with that by emphasizing the key words in his statement:
"An artist's children ***COULD*** benefit from the copyright of their parents' works, ***SAY***, until they reach the age of majority... But afterward, it's not clear to me why Ravel's children should get any income from Bolero..."
This was AN EXAMPLE he was giving. He was essentially saying "you know, I could see it if it was XXXX, maybe, but even then, I really dont believe in IP and this system of perpetual and infinite rights that never end."
And no, there IS NO SUCH THING AS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Please get this through your thick troll head. IP is an INVENTED term, not something inherent to the human condition. In addition, it is NOT CODIFIED IN LAW anywhere. Its simply a catch-all term created by rights holders to easily describe a set of several laws (copyright, trademark, etc) together with the intent to turn weak minds (thats you) to accepting it as if its a natural law or something.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
So it's OK to him if the children can collect until the age of majority. That's IP, not the lack of IP.
And there is such a thing as IP, invented or not. It's silly to pretend like it doesn't exist.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
Tell that to the billions of pirates in the world :)
It has to be the dumbest form of property ever devised.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
Certainly intellectual property is merely an idea, just as is property itself, such as land ownership. However, unless we live in communal villages where there are no costs for things and no taxes, we will have to barter with what we have.
For some it is land, material wealth. For others it is their creativity. A person deserves to be compensated for their contribution, be it material or otherwise. Even this site wouldn't exist if the hosting bill wasn't paid for, now would it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
"Il n'y a pas de propriété intellectuelle. Je suis contre l'héritage, par exemple."
In the first sentence, Godard says that intellectual creations aren't property in the usual sense of the word: houses, pocketknives, bags of carrots. Thus, in the second sentence, to illustrate this point he says he doesn't believe that copyright should be inheritable.
He does add" "Que les enfants d'un artiste puissent bénéficier des droits de l'oeuvre de leurs parents, pourquoi pas jusqu'â leur majorité...)
He is willing to concede that the creators' children could/should [I don't have the text that the ellipsis replaces] continue to receive copyright payments until they reach the age of majority. But afterwards? No.
He does NOT say, or even imply that the creator should not benefit for his/her works - to those of y'all who insist on repeating this straw man, the original text is quite clear.
But he doesn't believe that copyright should be treated as property.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
So basically here's what he's saying:
(1) IP rights shouldn't be heritable, except for when they're heritable.
(2) IP shouldn't be treated like property, except for when it's treated like property.
(3) IP is different than regular property, except for the ways that it's the same.
This guy's great!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
Maybe: Godard doesn't think there is such a thing as IP. He believes you can't treat copyright in the same way you treat property.
The key to understanding the nuance is in the French text: "par exemple" (for example) in "Je suis contre l'héritage, par exemple.".
He's talking about copyright, not IP. Again, Godard doesn't believe that there is such a thing as IP
He doesn't have a problem with copyright for the creator's lifetime. Nor for extending the copyright to cover the creator's children until they reach the age of majority.
Say basically here's what he's saying:
(1) There is no such thing as IP;
(2) Copyright should end when the creator dies, plus maybe a maximum of 18 years, for the children;
(3) A creator's work(s) should not thought of as property, since there's no such thing as IP;
(4) HADOPI is a bad idea/institution;
(5) There is no such thing as IP;
(6) He thinks filesharing is OK; and he's put his money where his mouth is by donating 1,000 eurosn to James Climent to help pay his fine;
(7) There is no such thing as IP.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lemme emphasize that to help you out there....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
They want the ability to invade others space in order to spy on them, the French government could become the biggest spreader of legal viruses on the world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
IP is a scam
Pretty tenacious, though, for something a European princess and a French writer cooked up to keep booksellers happy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ravel's Children
Ideology aside, there is a practical component to profit motive and for intellectual property. The answer lies in fairness and balance, not dispensing with IP altogether!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Ravel's Children
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Ravel's Children
Brian spouted:
Look around: do you see many “corporate interests†continuing to profit from Bolero?
I rest my case.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
IMDB Credits
Had there been no IP law, those numbers might not have been even into a dozen, since the studios could have just produced his scripts without his permission and no compensation for anything more than just his time showing up on set.
He would have had to resort to having a "regular job" to pay the bills and had no momentum in filmmaking.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
People should get paid by the work they do, not for work done that is just a perversion that was allowed to happen.
More those contributions in the realm of the intangible are really just ideas and nobody should own ideas ever it blocks the productive path and inhibits learning.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That might be seen as low blow by a low life, or a good catch depending on who you ask.
Want to ask me what I do think about?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Then up is down, left is right, black is white, and you get yourself killed at the next zebra crossing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
you cant be against it, and then allow "the children" to get a free paycheck for 18 or 21 years for something they had nothing to do with, that's keeping the status quot.
Law?? no, IP is not a legal definition, its a word used to lump in trade marks, patents, copyright, etc... IP should never be used, use the appropriate legal term to describe what your talking about, stop scaring the children with invented umbrella words
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]