Microsoft Exec Says 'Open' Means 'Incompetent'

from the oh-really-now? dept

Glyn Moody points us to the news that a Microsoft exec is criticizing the Brazilian government's support for open source software using some pretty weak arguments. This isn't new. For years, any government that supports open source software is attacked (falsely) as not supporting private enterprise. However, what's really ridiculous here is that the Microsoft exec in question, Hernan Rincon, president of Microsoft Latin America, seems to be making even more specious arguments than usual, claiming that "open" really is a way of saying "incompetent":
"When you can not compete, you are declaring open. This masks incompetence." (translated)
That's quite a statement, and one made with no basis whatsoever. Openness could "mask incompetence," but I'd argue that it's much easier to mask incompetence with a closed solution. Open generally is the opposite of "masking" anything. He also makes the typical FUDian arguments that open source is more expensive to run, which isn't quite accurate (or, realistically, depends on what it is you're trying to do). But this claim that openness is about incompetence is just plain ridiculous.
Hide this

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: hernan rincon, open
Companies: microsoft


Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread


  • icon
    Jon Renaut (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 11:44am

    Incompetence experts

    If anyone knows a little something about incompetence, it's an executive from the company that produced Windows Vista (and 95, and 98, and ME, and . . .).

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    weneedhelp (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 11:47am

    From the company that perfected incompetency. Just push it out, and patch it later.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Doe, 16 Sep 2010 @ 12:13pm

    Open does support private enterprise

    Just look at RedHat, they didn't create Linux but they have built a good business around supporting it. Open source has created many jobs and allowed many more to use it for their jobs.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      testcore (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 12:32pm

      Re: Open does support private enterprise

      That's what I find funny when cluebies like this exec claim that open source is somehow anti-private enterprise. Companies like IBM, Red Hat, and Canonical all seem to be pretty successful ventures, and yet they're all major contributors to FOSS. So how is supporting them against the free market again?

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 3:02pm

      Re: Open does support private enterprise

      Yeah just came in here to mention this. Red hat example = Microsoft fail. I am disappoint.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    crade (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 12:42pm

    Microsoft releases opensource stuff too.
    "Executive" means incompetent if you ask me.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 12:43pm

    Incompetent programmers in OSS get heckled out by those who are know what they're doing

    Where as in a closed source, idiots can congregate and no one will be the wiser. Case in point, Windows ME.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Will Sizemore (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:02pm

    Push and Patch

    MAN do I hate Push and Patch! Oh, wait, that's not the problem. Much of open source is that way too. The problem is more, "Push This and Don't Let Anyone Else Patch So We Can Get More Money."

    At least with Open Source Software, anyone who IS competent, can reasonably obtain the code and patch it themselves.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    fluor2 (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:10pm

    Just another view

    I am not impressed with comments here. Microsoft have a LOT of good solutions and I do admire the stability of the recent operating systems since Windows XP.

    "...free programs require more work and investment from the government to keep them running and updated." Well that IS the truth. You might think it might not apply to goverments as they have a pretty non-changing environment. Well, you are wrong. There is much changing everywhere now, and the costs of developing and maintaining a linux-platform might become bigger than one wants.

    The phrase open means incompetent was meant for Google and not the brazilian government.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      tracker1 (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:55pm

      Re: Just another view

      I don't know about this either. Web-based applications seems to be the majority of all development outside core applications these days (in numbers of man hours of development time, not in terms of usage). As long as these apps support a given browser in use, then maintaining the actual desktop clients becomes easier, even in OSS. There are management tools for maintaining OSS, just as with commercial software.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      F, 16 Sep 2010 @ 2:41pm

      idjut can't RTFA

      Read the original article, fool!

      The president of Microsoft Latin America, Hernán Rincón, sent word to Brazilian government: "innovation software does not happen in the hands of governments but the private sector."

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        anonymous coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 3:35pm

        Re: idjut can't RTFA

        Moron.... read past the first line. Speaking of hypocrisy you belong in there with the microsoft hypocrite...

        link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      the Janitor, 16 Sep 2010 @ 3:44pm

      Re: Just another view

      ...where should I start here.. You know Windows Vista exits right? half baked OS that even Microsoft admits was a total disaster.

      Don't get me wrong, Microsoft does have good products as well -but the creators of the 'Kin' phones and all those crappy operating systems should not be talking about 'Incompetence'. First they need to clean their junk code before criticizing others. But then again, what else can you expect from Microsoft execs.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      abc gum, 16 Sep 2010 @ 7:33pm

      Re: Just another view

      "and the costs of developing and maintaining a linux-platform might become bigger than one wants."

      Check this out- it's great
      Microsoft Windows: A lower total cost of 0wnership

      http://www.immunitysec.com/downloads/tc0.pdf

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Joe, 16 Sep 2010 @ 7:53pm

      Re: Just another view

      dude- the GNU/Linux ecosystem adapts allot quicker than Microsoft and other closed source ecosystems to change. All one has to do is look at the patch management systems in place and how they work and also how patches are managed. Anybody can find a bug, anybody can write a patch, and the maintainer can approve/deny a patch or write a patch from scratch. And those patches then end up getting to the users faster because users don't have to manually download / and or OK each patch through a different update mechanism. GNU/Linux distributions have repositories so the programs get patches for the applications through whichever package manager update system they use rather than 20 different update programs like on MS Windows or Mac.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 16 Sep 2010 @ 8:07pm

      Re: Just another view

      fluor2 wrote:

      I am not impressed with comments here. Microsoft have a LOT of good solutions and I do admire the stability of the recent operating systems since Windows XP.

      None of which is relevant to the discussion at hand. That’s what a “strawman” is.

      "...free programs require more work and investment from the government to keep them running and updated." Well that IS the truth.

      The most spectacular counterexample to why you’re wrong has to be the London Stock Exchange case. Back in 2008, Microsoft mounted a major publicity campaign, crowing about the fact that the LSE had chosen Windows over Linux to run its trading system.

      Over the subsequent year, the system suffered major performance and reliability problems, culminating in a major outage that left the entire system unusable for an entire day.

      So now they’re switching to Linux, the very system they previously rejected.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 12:40am

      Re: Just another view

      "Microsoft have a LOT of good solutions and I do admire the stability of the recent operating systems since Windows XP."

      While I admit that MS have some good software (even a stopped clock is right twice a day, right?), they're hardly a barometer of quality. We're talking about the company that released XP with large numbers of severe bugs that allows things like the Blaster virus to becomes rampant. The company that released Vista in such a shoddy state that my first Vista laptop was incapable of copying a file across my home network until SP1. That didn't even test certain classes of bugs because they didn't think 98 would become connected to open networks...

      "Well that IS the truth."

      Please tell me you're joking. I can point out hundreds of open source projects that receive nothing from government sources.

      "There is much changing everywhere now, and the costs of developing and maintaining a linux-platform might become bigger than one wants."

      There are numerous studies that show that a competent Linux administrator can maintain many more servers than an equally competent Windows admin.

      "The phrase open means incompetent was meant for Google and not the brazilian government."

      ...so what makes Google specifically incompetent? Google search, Chrome, docs, etc. vs. the equivalent MS product makes the opposite assertion....

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Andy, 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:12am

      Re: Just another view

      "the costs of developing and maintaining a linux-platform might become bigger than one wants"

      That's the case with any operating system or application. It is just the case that usually supporting and developing for windows becomes much more expensive than linux...

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      techflaws.org (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:49am

      Re: Just another view

      I do admire the stability of the recent operating systems since Windows XP.

      You mean, were an application gone rogue can lock up the entire system so only a power-cycle helps and you loose all data not saved yet? Yeah, admirably stable.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      ted b, 17 Sep 2010 @ 11:44am

      Re: Just another view

      >>There is much changing everywhere now, and the costs of >>developing and maintaining a linux-platform might become >>bigger than one wants.

      >The phrase open means incompetent was meant for Google and >not the brazilian government.

      That phrase by Microsoft is part of their "My, my,.. you sure have a nice bakery/kernel/house/OS there.. it would be a shame if something happened to it. If you pay us, we will make sure that nothing bad will happen. We wont tell you which things but it would be in your best interest if you did." routine theyve been doing for the past few years.
      Their extortion routine didnt stop at Novell and the two other small fish that drowned i believe. Korean companies like LG and Samsung have been paying Microsoft for the right to use Linux for a few years now.
      Its really a great racket theyve set up using mainly FUD and all the insinuations and innuendos that such extortion entails.
      The ONLY way would costs of developing and maintaining a Linux platform cost more (than one wants they say) would be through such a taxation system.
      Microsoft is doing the same thing as mobsters do to the bakery and ice cream places in my neighborhood. They offer no proof that Linux used Microsoft IP but they offer companies piece of mind (they wont sue) that a bundle of cash will make them forget about these offenses.

      If Microsoft (which as a company does its best work in the boardroom and not the showroom) can manage to tax Linux, thats the only way costs will go up.

      So Im not impressed by your comment either.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      notanexpert, 17 Sep 2010 @ 1:55pm

      Re: Just another view

      how can anyone admire the Vista operating system, even MS has admitted it is a pile of garbage. they sell people "not good" software, then dont bother to make them better, just offer to sell the upgrade. If your selling a product, you should be willing to stand behind it, as was not the case with vista

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Steven (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:14pm

    *nix

    So I suppose Microsoft will immediately move all of it's servers away from the incompetent *nix variations and all to MS Server?

    Somehow I doubt it.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Sebastian, 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:27pm

    Did I just get agitated, this easily?

    Did I just get agitated, this easily? If it weren't for open source, there would not be an internet. Idiot.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    techflaws.org (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:47pm

    MS lies about OSS FUD easily debunked

    Another Mircros~1 exec being schooled on this topic:

    http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/articles/en/reponseperou/villanueva_to_ms.html

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 1:57pm

    Now that is good to hear.
    Because when the big boys start squeaking its either because it is hurting or because they are afraid.

    It makes me feel all fuzzy and warm inside.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Kleuske (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 2:21pm

    Observation

    An incompetent programmer would be likely to _hide_ his incompetence behind the locked doors of an ironclad EULA, non-disclosure agreements and (in particular) a (very) closed source model. Allowing others to view the actual code, seems something for more self-confident and competent programmers.
    But hey... M$ fudding it isn't exactly new. They've been playing this card as long as they exist.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 3:52pm

    Not that I agree with this guy, but perhaps the logic behind the reasoning is that one might open up their software so that it can have contributions by people who are better programmers than they are, thereby hiding their own incompetence at developing a quality product on their own. It's not inconceivable that a business executive would see things this way.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2010 @ 2:59am

      Re:

      So, would you say that a business executive who hires a programmer, or accountant, or anyone else, to do anything, rather than doing it him/her-self, is hiding his/her incompetence? Since when is teamwork hiding incompetence? The ability to work with others is one of the most powerful competencies.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Nick Coghlan (profile), 16 Sep 2010 @ 3:53pm

    The fishbowl effect

    The "incompetence" line does get trotted out fairly often, but, as others have pointed out, it really doesn't work that way.

    If you're genuinely incompetent, no open source project is going to grant you commit access (or accept your patches) into their central trees.

    And when you *do* have such commit access, the immediate publication of you changes to anyone who cares to see them is a hell of an incentive to make sure that it's code you can defend as reasonable! Dodgy hacks still happen, of course, but they're almost always accompanied by a comment explaining why the dodgy hack is necessary and/or asking for ideas on less hackish solutions.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2010 @ 5:27pm

    At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they're right or wrong. They're Micro$oft and the average end user will think they are right. Who cares about truth really?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    greggler, 16 Sep 2010 @ 7:35pm

    LOL at the FUD

    LOL at the company with a browser market share less than half of that owned by open source browsers. Double rainbow LOL that 8 years after XP and over $6 billion of OS development results in a product that can't convince 64% of their installed base that it is either safe or worthwhile to upgrade. I'm betting this particular comment goes down poorly for Microsoft.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Alan, 18 Sep 2010 @ 8:37am

      Re: LOL at the FUD

      Or maybe, just maybe, their previous operating system was so stable and so usable and so bloody impossible to crash that people just don't care enough to upgrade. Going from ME to XP was a *huge* difference in stability. It'd be hard to get more stable than XP.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2010 @ 2:52am

        Re: Re: LOL at the FUD

        Hard for Microsoft, easy for anyone with *nix.

        link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Ryan Diederich, 16 Sep 2010 @ 11:35pm

    Hey....

    Although to us programmers and non-laymen, Microsoft may seem incompetent, but you must remember, they have a market share of over 90%. They didnt get 90% of computers to use windows by being incompetetent.

    There will always be someone out there who could do it better. Whether its the entire thing or individual parts, this is why "Open" is better. Microsoft should beef up their beta program and make it easier for users to contribute.

    In the mean time, the "This computer lacks Genuine Windows Software" window just popped up on my laptop, and THAT is my way of silently resisting.


    Sources:
    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8

    link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      techflaws.org (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:51am

      Re: Hey....

      They didnt get 90% of computers to use windows by being incompetetent.

      No, they got it by stealing, copying and blackmailing competition and by means of other unlawful practises. A good starting point to read about this is here.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2010 @ 8:29am

      Re: Hey....

      "In the mean time, the "This computer lacks Genuine Windows Software" window just popped up on my laptop, and THAT is my way of silently resisting."

      Why do it silently?

      Use Linux!

      link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      SLK8ne, 17 Sep 2010 @ 9:12am

      Re: They didnt get 90% of computers to use windows by being incompetetent.

      No they got a 90% market share by cutting deals with the PC manufacturers to put MS OSs on their computers.

      Has nothing to do with technical competency, just back room business deals.

      link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Pranav, 17 Sep 2010 @ 12:18am

    Incompetence to compete

    We have to differentiate incompetence to compete from incompetence of a product.

    Please realize that it takes a lot more than developing the software/apps to make money off it. The product might be revolutionary but the developer might not have the knowledge to make money of it. (Remember the DOS ;)

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2010 @ 12:44am

    If competence is judge by a product laden with DRM(Vista) that takes all the control over your machine and hand it to strangers then yah open source is incompetent because they can't do that.

    If competence is judge by the response time that takes months or years in Microsoft case then sure open source is incompetent for having fixes 2 days later, of course there are some issues that still didn't get resolved after years but the numbers are low on the open source front.

    If competence is about locking up every feature to make others pay more sure open source lost there, they don't lock anything, BTW that is one of the reasons I switched, because after expending $400 bucks on windows I discovered that I would have had to purchased a new one costing $600 dollars for the privilege to change the language of the OS, the last straw was that DRM crap embedded in Vista, I'm not giving up the control of my computer to a company that used to be consumer friendly but turned on people and got in bed with the entertainment industry which I hate.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    mhenriday (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:02am

    Given Microsoft's own record of 'competence'

    in pushing products which cause end users and those whose task is to help them no end of trouble, the problem here seems to be one of definitions - Microsoft simply uses a definition of 'competence' - that which contributes to Microsoft's profits or otherwise is convenient for the company - which differs from that used by the rest of the world. A linguist might say that this usage of 'competence' is cognate with Microsoft's usage of the phrase 'standards compliant'.... Henri

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Arup Roy Chowdhury, 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:14am

    And here we have blog idiots calling Linux users over zealots and critical of MS, time and again, fools like Ballmer, Gates and others openly bad mouth and put down Linux and open source and yet if the Linux user protests, its seen as M$ bashing.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Adriano, 17 Sep 2010 @ 5:24am

    Something I'm not... Something that you're

    I don't think so Mr. Rincon. But, I don't understand... Did you mean incompetence when YOUR company put to market place a lot of crap-software like a "money-collector" in order to finance you more poor software for next versions?
    So, I think that is more competent a large people's group collaborating into the same software coding, and not a huge set of engineers making software with closed eyes.

    Think about it man. You lose.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    DannyB (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 7:50am

    Microsoft and Incompetence? A tale of two smartphones

    1. Android. Enough said.

    2. Windows Phone 7 Series.

    October will bring the launch of Windows Phone 7 Series. Phones from the same company that brought you such fine products as Edlin, DOS 4, Windows ME, Internet Explorer 6, Zune, Vista and Bing. Phones with the kind of quality, stability, security and robustness you’ve come to expect from the Microsoft name. Yes, Windows Phone 7 Series is a new ballgame that abandons compatibility (and your investment) with Windows Mobile and literally dozens and dozens of developers who wrote apps for it. It is unconnected with the recent Microsoft Sidekick/Danger fiasco that made national news when it lost all data for millions of smartphone users worldwide. (Microsoft acquired the successful Sidekick/Danger and tried to “Microsoft” it.) After the Sidekick/Danger fiasco, don’t expect T-Mobile to be friends with Microsoft anytime soon. I’m sure the other carriers are also paying attention. Also don’t forget the recently launched, and recently discontinued Microsoft Kin phone! Microsoft spent over $85 Million in marketing for it, and managed to sell over 500 units! Microsoft announced that it wasn’t as bad as the press was suggesting – they only lost $120,000 per Kin phone that was sold. When asked about the Kin phone and the Zune music player, teenagers said: the what and the what? So be looking forward to Windows Phone 7 Series in October. (If at first you don’t succeed, use a shorter bungee.)

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Hephaestus (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 9:12am

    "When you can not compete, you are declaring open. This masks incompetence"

    LOL ... bug a day Microsoft talking about incompetence.

    Thanks Mike you really made me laugh with that quote.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    SLK8ne, 17 Sep 2010 @ 9:25am

    I'd be insulted but....

    As an open source software lover I'd be insulted if this wasn't such a laughable comment.

    Excuse me sir exactly how many viruses and security holes have your operating systems had over the years? How many BSODs have your "competent" programmers inflicted on the general public?

    I'm a PC tech and I tell people who want to buy a new computer to go buy a Mac, or to shop online and get a Linux box. I know Microsoft products too well to honestly recommend them to anyone.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Will Sizemore (profile), 17 Sep 2010 @ 2:04pm

    I agree with you, NotAnExpert...

    I do agree, but I'm only posting so in the hopes that if I don't check the, "Email me when there are new comments on this thread," box I won't get email chirps on my phone all night again. :P

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    rickie, 17 Sep 2010 @ 3:23pm

    what a silly comment

    If secure, stable, availability, low resources consumption, etc.... in open sources is some kind of incompetency what should be thought about Blue Screen of Death, Windows Vista inoperable, Windows ME trash, the third party security needs to patch and protect your Windows OS and data. Come on MS guys you can do better to criticize something you cannot understand "Open Source is for real" not the trashy, expensive license and inoperative system you are pretending to rent for the whole world.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jim (profile), 18 Sep 2010 @ 7:45pm

    So Typical

    My IT won't give a second look to anything if it isn't Microsoft. They are under a false sense of security and could be saving taxpayers money. The argument is we don't know anything about (pick your poison) so we don't support it.

    I don't understand how IT gets away with this shit. When new environmental laws are passed I don't get to say, "I really don't know the details of that law so we are still going to use the old law".

    Done with my sort of off topic rant, but that rant is caused by Microsoft and their constant spewing of inaccurate info in regards to certain areas such as open source.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jim (profile), 18 Sep 2010 @ 7:45pm

    So Typical

    My IT won't give a second look to anything if it isn't Microsoft. They are under a false sense of security and could be saving taxpayers money. The argument is we don't know anything about (pick your poison) so we don't support it.

    I don't understand how IT gets away with this shit. When new environmental laws are passed I don't get to say, "I really don't know the details of that law so we are still going to use the old law".

    Done with my sort of off topic rant, but that rant is caused by Microsoft and their constant spewing of inaccurate info in regards to certain areas such as open source.

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Sep 2010 @ 2:50am

    when you can't compete...

    If Open software can't compete, why is a Microsoft exec wasting his time discussing it?

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Carlos Gili, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:14pm

    Surelly MS Exec is terribly missinformed

    To make it Open implies that your work must be good, otherwise you would be ashamed to show it... On the other side of the coin there is MS that HIDE their MALICIOUS code by compiling it... and filling the memory and HardDisks with garbage just to make the PC slower and full of viruses... Proof of this malicious intention from MS is inside the "System Volume Information" directory on every PC, in which, I don't know why, the system stores copies of the user excel and microsoft word files!... Why?.... to fill the disk?...

    link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Delhi Packers Movers, 11 Nov 2011 @ 6:15am

    Packers Movers Delhi

    I appreciate work that you have put into this page. Genuinely and informative..

    link to this | view in chronology ]


Follow Techdirt
Essential Reading
Techdirt Deals
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads
Techdirt Insider Discord

The latest chatter on the Techdirt Insider Discord channel...

Loading...
Recent Stories

This site, like most other sites on the web, uses cookies. For more information, see our privacy policy. Got it
Close

Email This

This feature is only available to registered users. Register or sign in to use it.