Supreme Court Agrees To See Whether Or Not AT&T Has 'Personal Privacy' Rights
from the do-corporations-have-privacy-rights? dept
Back in May, we wrote about an important case questioning whether or not companies have privacy rights. Traditionally, privacy rights were seen as being for individuals, not companies, but AT&T claimed that it had privacy rights over data collected by the FCC in an attempt to determine if AT&T was bilking the e-rate program (for installing broadband connections to schools). Some people filed a Freedom of Information Act request over the data, and the FCC released some of it (keeping some secret to protect trade secrets). However, AT&T sued the FCC claiming that even releasing the limited info the FCC was planning to put out would violate the company's personal privacy. The Third Circuit appeals court in the case sided with AT&T, saying that companies could have personal privacy -- and the case was appealed to the Supreme Court.The Supreme Court has now announced that it will hear the case. The Obama administration had asked the Supreme Court to hear the case, claiming that it did not believe "personal privacy" applied to companies. Elena Kagan, who had filed the brief for the administration, will obviously sit the case out now that she's a Supreme Court justice. However, this will be yet another, in a recent line of cases, trying to establish the boundaries (if there are any) between the rights of individuals and the rights of corporations.
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Filed Under: corporations, e-rate, personal privacy, supreme court
Companies: at&t, fcc
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The courts are paid for
It is time to look into term limits for the supreme court and get a closer look at the judges and their families finances.
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ALSO
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Those times have come and gone. The justice system is just as corrupt and the legal and political environments. Eventually they have to be brought down.
If they are allowed to serve for the rest of their lifetime, make laws that prohibit them from residing in anything that they or their families have a vested interest in. Right now they can say that they can judge impartially and get away with it. It is very clear that some of the judges are not impartial at all. They are VERY biased.
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what a joke the usa is
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Oh, wait, you probably don't want that.
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I see a union as a group of people with a common goal. I see a corporation as a beast with interchangeable parts that only seeks to beat down and exploit the public. I am all for helping the general public and balancing things out. Google is as close as has come for a corporation to actually care about the people in awhile. I do feel however that they only cared because their interests aligned for awhile. There have been some signs that this may be changing. We can only hope it does not.
I think a union could give to campaigns as long as each individual member chose to donate what they wanted to, and not over the max. None of the "well I donated 1.5X the amount to make up for Bob who only donated .5X". To assist with this, they should not have privacy either. Really, I want to know that the people giving, are individuals, who are not having stuff given in their name.
A good example of what I do not want happening is the kind of shenanigans the RIAA pulls all the time, with the lawsuits having random artists sign on who later come out saying "Actually no, I didn't say that suing people was okay, they just kind of did it on their own". That is crap.
If a union is trying to lift up just a couple of its members and not everyone equally, then I am all for removing their rights as well (since they are no different than a corporation).
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Agreed, especially since many unions are run like corporations. However, corporations are groups of people who align themselves to a common goal, too (to make money, deliver a product, and so on.) Neither should have legal rights that individuals within those group enjoy. Corporations were originally set up to shield their members, not to act as a Frankenstein (an inanimate object given life, though in this case a purely legal fabrication of life.
If I am a member of a corporation, I should be able to vote as I see fit, even if my vote is similar to everyone else in the corporation. My problem is that corporations often (though it is illegal to do so directly,) "motivate" their employees to vote a particular way just like unions often do. I should be able to vote without having to worry about the corporation I work for firing me because I voted a particular way, or chose to donate to a particular politician (or not donate to a particular politician.) It should be my right to vote/donate exactly as I see fit, without fear of repercussion for voting a way my company does not agree with. If I choose to go the same way that the others in the corporation choose to go, then so be it. In order for this to work though, the individuals need privacy, but the organization as a whole should not get a chance to donate/vote, just its members individually. Why Microsoft or the RIAA can donate out of its profits or operating funds, money to a political party or politician is what I have real problems with. If the company pays the employee a salary, and the employee decides on their own to donate that money to a political party, I have no problem with it (because the employee could just keep the money or spend it on something else.)
Of course, this can be abused too, but there are ways to keep the abuse to a minimum (such as actually enforcing the election laws that already exist.)
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Corporate Voting
Yes! That's exactly what we should do! And I don't imagine it will be long before we do. That way those with financial means can get as many votes as they can afford (which is how it should be) by creating and controlling corporations to do their bidding. Bravo! Long live capitalism!
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Why don't we just give corporations the vote and be done with it?
Hell - they already 'own it'. Who pays to put Politicians in Office?
After you answer that; you should know the answer to the next question, "Who do they represent?"
Corporate donations to politicians should be outright banned for good, along with special interest donations. Allow PEOPLE to donate and that's it.
Corporations and Special Interest do not have a right to free speech and that's the way it should stay. "We the people" do however; have those rights.
But this government now is, "For the corporations, by the corporations."
The funny thing is that in the end - that's all it will ever serve; the corporations.
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Take away what they have now and there'd be no reason to form corps. Might as well chase private businesses away like a torch-bearing mob chasing away a Frankenstein's monster. Which would mean chasing away jobs. This country's bipolar relationship with business is maddening. I'm not saying corps should have full constitutional rights, but by god, how long will it be before we completely chase all private enterprise away and form another impotent socialist states? I guess that's what the left is working toward, huh? Bread lines & Gov. hand-outs instead of personal achievement? Some worker's paradise.
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No, but none of them actually work, either. As the entitlement mentality grows, they're all breaking under the weight of it all.
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I'm sure you'll just say, in spite of your confessed ignorance on the matter, "well socialism doesn't work, so just forget that!"
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Communism? I don't know if that would work well or not, considering that no country in the entire WORLD has been a true communist nation.
Yes, China, Cuba, Russia, etc..... not communist nations.... ELITIST nations where all people are NOT equal and do not get the same things.
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Also, there isn't a simple dichotomy of more or less regulation. I think that we need fewer laws that are simpler and more direct. We need some regulation just to keep things in check, but our regulations, however, have become a byzantine bureaucracy. The mountains of legal weasel wording only benefits lawyers and those that can afford them. Of course, then we would need to prevent others from just mucking it up all over again. I have no simply solution for that, but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be a goal to do so.
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We should have NEVER signed NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. and reserved our right to BREAK those agreements if the other countries were not adhering to their obligations under those laws/treaties.
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Last time I checked, the USA couldn't be considered any sort of paradise.. maybe the old right-wing, neoliberal logic should be reevaluated.
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No shame
The sooner the artifice of corporation as psychopathic person (fiducially obliged to put share price above all) is dissolved and disintegrated into 'association of mortals' the better for mankind and the planet (qv Union Carbide, BP et al).
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Re: No shame
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I take it that you're one of those who think that rights are a ratchet than can only advance upward and that the system would come apart if it were ever to slip back even a notch? The problem with that scheme of course is that it doesn't allow for any slack to address the injustices caused by those that abuse these rights. To do so would require certain rights to be abridged, and that can not EVER happen if the ratchet is now allowed to drop from time to time. The scales of justice can't ever balance you if you keep tipping it further in the same direction.
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No. Never argued that. Never ever. Been repeating the same over and over again. That you choose to ignore most of what I say is up to you. Here's my argument in a nutshell; we need corps, more than you think.
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The argument that they will take their business elsewhere is a tired old joke. They already have for the most part and it is because of the increasing level of privilege they have attained that they are even allowed to do it at all. Look at history, it is protectionism that allowed us to become great. We threw it all away for "free trade" which has only served to distance corporations even further from benefiting the public, which was of course their original mandate.
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Lawyers call them 'rights' (short for legislatively granted 'rights') - in the hope people confuse them with rights (natural/human/moral).
It's probably best to call them instruments of injustice to make their iniquity a little more obvious.
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I was just adding to it - not contradicting. I was just curious as to whether you (or others) knew the etymology of 'privilege'. I expect you do know it, but just wondered.
Read my comment again as if intoned by someone wholeheartedly agreeing with you, but finding little to add except a trivial note about the terminology and its corruption. :)
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Since you seem like the type to make a crazy leap from that statement, let me clarify that I do not mean people should be completely protected....I believe there are things the government should not involve itself with. However, what is good for a corporation is not always good for the people, and in those cases, the corporation SHOULD LOSE. Corporations are made up of people, lots of them, so if AT&T the corporation has an opinion on something, it should work to try and convince the people of the company the same, and have them donate to causes. The corporation should not be allowed to donate to any causes as though they are an individual. Example of abuse: Company A wants candidate A elected because candidate A wants to enact a law that allows corporations to outsource jobs so they can save money. This would lead to higher profits, more money to go to candidate A as well as the executives of the company, but it will mean a loss of domestic jobs. Tell me why any one who works for company A would want that... But Company A has a lot more money than the individuals that work there, so if the candidate is looking over campaign donations, of course he's going to bend over for the bigger donor.
In that case, the company should have no rights to either donate to a campaign, or hide the information that they want a law enacted that would let them fire half of their expensive American workforce for cheaper foreign laborers. Fighting for people does not always mean fighting against corporations, nor does fighting against corporate rights necessarily mean we don't want private enterprise...
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> to any causes as though they are an individual.
And neither should a labor union.
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That should be allowed.
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> person as a whole?
> That should be allowed.
Only if you allow all the shareholders of a corporation to vote and donate to the candidate as a whole.
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And that's without even considering the fact that a single person's actions typically effect themselves, while a corporation's actions typically effect hundreds if not thousands or more. Corporations are NOT people, and it should be clear that anyone who would say they are or are deserving of the same rights, has been bought out by one.
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They can't keep everything secret, unless SEC rules change, and last I heard the Fed was putting pressure on the SEC to enact MORE rules & disclosure, not less.
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This whole case is about the corporation putting up a fight to go in the other direction. Stop making it sound like we're trying to strip them of what they have, when in reality, we're simply trying to keep them in check and not give them more rights than they deserve.
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I'll be blunt here: you sound like a PAID CORPORATE POSTER!
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USA -- Prime Country for Sale
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@ corporatist Interval
The excuse for corporations is to pool money to build. That's long since been outdated: the stock market is nothing but a casino manipulated by big money, and if pooling money is needed, it doesn't have to be done by a monopoly round Wall Street.
It's corporations that don't "do" business. They're merely "legalized" organized crime. Without the checks of civilized persons on their actions, they'd be nothing but literal pirates.
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Re: @ corporatist Interval
Now, without mis-characterizing what I've said (I AM NOT for a wild-west, no rules mentality) I'm curious to hear your idea of what should replace corps and businesses here; how should people make a living in the united states, your vision?
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Bonus question:
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And I'm still waiting for your replacement paradigm.
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There can be manipulation of statements, but if your ENTIRE STATEMENTS are parsed earlier in the posting........ OOPS! You just lost your standing leg and up to your chest as well.
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One good alternate suggestion to corporations is co-ops. This makes a lot more sense as they are far more democratic therefore inherently more representative. The problem is this may lead to business decisions like not outsourcing and trying to achieve higher quality. The repercussions of job satisfaction and increased quality of life would be horrendous!
No I think we should stay inside the box and stick with corporations, because it would be just too hard to come up with better alternatives.
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> it has an influence outside its state of origin.
According to the prevailing political thought and legal justification for most of what Congress does, everything, including a person's mere existence, affects interstate commerce.
You're going to have a hard time running a business that's any bigger than a lemonade stand in your front yard that doesn't have an influence across state lines.
But on a broader point, what right do you have to tell me how much money I can make off my own hard work? If I devise a product or service that everyone wants, it's my right to exploit the value of my labor and ingenuity for whatever the market will bear.
I honestly have no idea how this Marxist notion that everyone should be equally mediocre and/or miserable came to have such a foothold on the American psyche. Are they teaching it in the schools these days or something?
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Still wrong. There's no point arguing, you keep replacing my words with your own gibberish. You might as well be arguing with a mirror.
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How do we keep that from happening, those last things? With STRICT AND STERN regulation, including a strong/HIGH minimum wage that people can live on and....... (shivers)..... PRICE CONTROLS IN SOME CASES!
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But on a broader point, why not try joining the conversation and adding something other than your paranoia.
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I think not.
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Preamble
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
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