English Heritage Organization Claiming It Holds Effective Copyright On Any And All Photos Of Stonehenge

from the stoned-henge dept

Wed, Oct 20th 2010 10:39am — Mike Masnick

Every so often we hear of groups or organizations taking a rather expansive view of copyright law, but English Heritage, a UK gov't-backed organization to (you guessed it) promote English heritage and manage various historical sites, may have pushed the extremes to new levels. Boing Boing has the story of how it has sent a letter to a bunch of photosharing and stock photo sites claiming that all images of Stonehenge "can not be used for any commercial interest" and that "all commercial interest to sell images must be directed to English Heritage." Of course, that's blatantly ridiculous.

One recipient of the letter, the site FotoLibra, is trying to figure out on what legal basis English Heritage is making this claim, noting that Stonehenge "has been their responsibility for 27 of the monument's 4,500 year old history." Of course, just about the only thing this will probably serve to do is make people a lot less interested in visiting Stonehenge, photographing Stonehenge and getting others to go to Stonehenge.

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Filed Under: english heritage, photographs, stonehenge, uk

44 Comments

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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 10:42am

That may be the point
"Of course, just about the only thing this will probably serve to do is make people a lot less interested in visiting Stonehenge, photographing Stonehenge and getting others to go to Stonehenge."

Considering that visitors are the greatest threat to the monument, I have to wonder if that's their real intent.
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- Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:44am
  
  Re: That may be the point
  Query, how do you know that it's a monument? And, what is it a monument to?
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  - ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:57am
    
    Re: Re: That may be the point
    A monument is a type of structure either explicitly created to commemorate a person or important event or which has become important to a social group as a part of their remembrance of past events.
    
    Ask a Druid.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 12:22pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
      The Romans wiped out the original Druids, all that remain are an echo of the past.
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      - ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 4:57pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
        What does that have to do with anything?
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  - Alimas (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:58am
    
    Re: Re: That may be the point
    What would YOU use a henge for?
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    - Rob Pollock, 25 Oct 2010 @ 6:55am
      
      Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
      Very useful for stone age swingers ...
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  - Cynyr (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 2:07pm
    
    Re: Re: That may be the point
    "Straw henge, and wood henge, but a big bad wolf came and blew them down."
    
    No one goes though that kind of work for any other reason that to make a monument.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 10:51am

I hope that somewhere an ancient society of druids who know the real purpose of Stonehenge are laughing their collective asses off at these 'posers'. After all, the druids were excluding people from Stonehenge before it was cool.

Not that I believe this, but it made me giggle.
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- Hephaestus (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:08am
  
  Re:
  "an ancient society of druids who know the real purpose of Stonehenge are laughing their collective asses off at these 'posers'."
  
  Druid #1 - Hey dude what do you want to do today?
  
  Druid #2 - Lets go out to that big field and build a huge outhouse.
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Gilbert, 20 Oct 2010 @ 10:59am

Gilbert's a sellout that needs more $$$$
I say we all chip in and hire Gilbert Gottfried to tell them to go fark themselves...
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vbevan (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:01am

Do google get a letter too?
Considering google get money from their maps/street view app indirectly via ads, will they be getting a letter too. Why go to stock images after all, the street view of Stonehenge is just amazing, not to mention the 100+ visitor photos also accessible through google maps view of the site.

You can even street view from inside of the structure. I'm guessing it's a bunch of 50+ yr olds who just took their fundraising cake sale a little too far.

http://goo.gl/e68b
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:05am

So copyright is not just an incentive to "people" to make more art?

I'm shocked!
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md1500 (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:35am

What will this mean for Spinal Tap?
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Joe: Pictorial, 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:42am

A funding problem solved
If NASA could claim similar rights over any arial image of the US, I think their funding problems would be solved.

Either that, or Terra Incognito and images of sea serpents on maps would make a stunning comback.
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- Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:45am
  
  Re: A funding problem solved
  Sigh, the problem with getting old is that I miss the sea serpents on maps.
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Pickle Monger (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:45am

Huh?
I remember reading on a website of a band I like that they owned the copyright on all images taken at their concerts. It'd be kind of like me claiming to own copyright on their songs simply because I listened to them.
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- Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:33pm
  
  Re: Huh?
  It's kinda not.
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Karl (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 12:14pm

Look at it from their point of view...
The purpose of copyright law is to promote progress, right? Without absolute control over every conceivable image, how will religious groups be encouraged to build more mysterious stone monuments?

Think about it - the sphynx is 5000 years old, stonehenge is 4500 years old, and the moai statues of Easter Island are only 500 years old. While these once were obviously commonly built, there haven't been any mysterious stone monuments built in centuries! It's quite obvious that the lack of copyright is what's preventing more of these sort of things from being created - just like it's the lack of pirates that's causing global warming!

We must encourage groups like to EHO to make these claims - it's the only way to get people to contribute to our culture!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 1:16pm

Missed my chance!
I knew I should have claimed copyright to all pictures of the Taj Mahal!

I'd be rich! Bwahahaha!
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 1:42pm

English Heritage Organization Claiming It Holds Effective Copyright On Any And All Photos Of Stonehenge

It doesn't, but that still does not keep claims like this from being made every now and then regarding this and numerous other well-known landmarks.
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Niall (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 2:14pm

Fantastic comments!
I really like a couple of the comments in the boingboing article:
redsquare said:
I thought everyone knew that cameras, or 'Photonic Rippers', are used only to pirate and profit off the stolen reflected light.

I guess stonehenge is one of those "No derivative works" things, though I didn't know you could claim ownership on the output of a program, I mean, rock.

and xzzy added:
Technically, they're profiting off the capture of photons reflected off Stonehenge. Those beams of light would have reflected off the structure whether a camera had been there or not, so there's no way one can reasonably argue that it generates a maintenance burden.
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- Niall (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 2:15pm
  
  Re: Fantastic comments!
  Oops, xzzy's comment is here.
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Prashanth (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 2:24pm

It isn't the first time
I remember rereading a few years ago Roald Dahl's publication of the story about Gordon Butcher and the Mildenhall Treasure. Basically, a man named Gordon Butcher accidentally stumbled upon ancient Roman silverware when plowing another man's field for-hire. Due to English law at that time, despite the fact that the silverware was found on private property, it (all gold and silver items) had to go to the Crown's museum. This is certainly pathetic, but it isn't the first such occurrence of a British national entity claiming ownership over things that clearly aren't theirs.
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- Call me Al, 20 Oct 2010 @ 3:30pm
  
  Re: It isn't the first time
  Prashanth I'm afraid that isn't quite accurate.
  
  The law at the time in the UK meant that the finder and / or the landowner would receive payment of the value of the treasure. They didn't just pinch it.
  
  Though it is quite possible that the finder could have received more money on the open market.
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G Thompson (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 9:50pm

Been to Stonehenge, taken numerous pictures of it and of the buriel hill on the other side of the highway too.

I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to "English Heritage" for explaining that these photos not only hold personal sentimental value but also it seems high commercial value as well.

I mustr contact them and ask if they would like to purchase copies of them for their archives, at a reasonable price and since copyright (even under UK law.. ie: Act of Queen Anne) retains with the original photographer (oh thats myself) I will then place them up for sale and expect a nice little money earner over the next few years.

WOOT!

Might even make a T-Shirt..

"I went to Stonehenge.. took a photo and made this T-shirt..Wanna buy one?"

;)
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Jeremy D Brooks, 20 Oct 2010 @ 10:00pm

Like a Dan Brown Novel
If you go back far enough, you'll find a lineage link between the Druids and the people that run Burning Man. I just know it. There's something deep and sinister afoot here.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Oct 2010 @ 10:51pm

Are they going to sue Hanna-Barberra? Stonehenge is actually the support for a highway offramp in the original Flintstones intro, as I recall.
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RCasha (profile), 20 Oct 2010 @ 11:08pm

Your rights are belong to us
The Astronomical Society wishes to inform the public that any photograph featuring any star, planet or cosmic object are hereby the property of the Astronomical Society.

In addition, the unauthorised use of light from any star is strictly forbidden.
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- Dodgy Geezer, 21 Oct 2010 @ 12:56am
  
  Re: Your rights are belong to us
  ...That includes the Sun....
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- akallio, 21 Oct 2010 @ 5:43am
  
  Re: Your rights are belong to us
  > In addition, the unauthorised use of light from any star is strictly forbidden.
  
  Huh? The sun is a star. We can't grow crops anymore? OTOH, go ahead and shut it off, that'll shut up those global warming freaks.
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Alan B (profile), 21 Oct 2010 @ 1:07am

The Druids did not build Stonehenge.
It was there for a thousand years before they showed up.
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Perhaps, 21 Oct 2010 @ 1:47am

olders photos
Can they lay claim to photos taken before their stewardship began, say 30 year old photos?

Ridiculous claims to make...
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2010 @ 3:56am

UK Copyrights
I wish you would remember that we are subjects of the Queen in the UK. Copyright in the UK is nothing to do with furthering the Arts.
It is a consession by the Her Majesties Government that we are allowed to copy some things. It is just that English Heritage (a QUANGO - part of the Government) have decided that we no longer have the right to duplicate our own photographs of Stonehenge without their permission - particularly if any money is involved.
Actually with all the Government spending cuts they are probably desperate to find alternative revenues - expect more clamp downs.
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abc gum, 21 Oct 2010 @ 5:26am

In related news:
A group wants to set up a collection agency for pictures,
sort of an ASCAP for photography.

Film at eleven.
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dry cleaned lawsuit, 21 Oct 2010 @ 7:00am

sue everyone
I'm confused about how this can be copyrighted. I'm no expert in photography related copyright law, but I do know that copyright's usually expire a few decades after the death of the creator or similar.

I do like this however. By the same merit, I can send such a copyright notice to anyone who takes a photo of my house and uses it commercially.
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Anonymous, 21 Oct 2010 @ 7:50am

all your photos belong to us
should i be worried that the myan culture society is going to come and claim my pictures of pyramids in mexico as their property?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Oct 2010 @ 8:03am

Don't See the Problem
Just because the site is 4500 years old doesn't mean that the photographs are not new art or something along those lines. The rocks are constantly changing even if the human eye can't see it and so Stonehenge as we see it is not that old at all. Therefore, it should be a protected right. Heisenberg uncertainty and all. There.
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Phil Nash, 21 Oct 2010 @ 8:49am

Freedom of Panorama
Someone should tell EH about Section 62 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 which specifically allows photography of buildings and artworks in public without breaching any copyright.
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timbucks, 21 Oct 2010 @ 9:43am

My Brain
I've just closed my eyes and imagined Stonehenge in all its glory. I don't know how to remove such imagery or place a copyright notice in the bottom right corner of my mental imagery :-(

Should I just turn myself in now?
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ChoccyHobNob (profile), 21 Oct 2010 @ 9:43am

Reply from English Heritage
his document has been sent to you from:

Ms R L McKellar
English Heritage
Customer Services
Po Box 569
SWINDON
SN2 2YP

Document Precis:

Dear Mr Xxxxxx,

Reference: xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your email regarding photography at Stonehenge.

English Heritage looks after Stonehenge on behalf of the nation. But we do not control the copyright of all images of Stonehenge. And we have never tried to do so. We have no problem with photographers sharing images of Stonehenge on Flickr and similar not-for-profit image websites. We encourage visitors to the monument to take their own photographs.

If a commercial photographer enters the land within our care with the intention of taking a photograph of the monument for financial gain, we ask that they pay a fee and abide by certain conditions. English Heritage is a non-profit making organisation and this fee helps preserve and protect Stonehenge for the benefit of future generations. The majority of commercial photographers respect this position and normally request permission in advance of visiting.

I am sorry for any confusion caused by a recent email sent to a picture library.

Yours sincerely

Rae Mckellar
Correspondence Team Manager
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Ann, 21 Oct 2010 @ 12:53pm

If they don't inform the public of their rules, they can't blame is for not playing by them...
If you ask me, as they fail to mention these 'rules' regarding commercial use of images at the Stonehenge entrance (as well as on their website and at the conditions of entry for the Summer Solstice celebrations), English Heritage shouldn't be complaining.
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Jeffrey A. Williams, 22 Oct 2010 @ 9:50am

English Heritage claims are not reasonable
Clearly English Heritage are far from reasonable and will not likely be taken very seriously. Perhaps another English government organization needs to take over for English Heritage, and soon.
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Rob Pollock, 25 Oct 2010 @ 6:47am

Has bureaucracy become completely un-henged?
This wooly minded nonsense about barring use of Stonehenge photos shows how limited has become the thinking and vision of the bureaucrats. Tourists and travellers might decide to boycott the historic site until the bureaucratic bullies are swept from their offices and replaced by sane and sensible people.
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