New TSA Report: Every Test Gun, Bomb Part Or Knife Got Past Screeners At Some Airport
from the but-they-got-to-touch-your-junk dept
While the TSA is still fighting as hard as possible to be able to either see you naked or touch your private parts, apparently it hasn't spent that much time actually figuring out how to look for people carrying weapons onto planes. A few folks have sent in this ABC story about a man who boarded a plane with a loaded handgun that had been in his carry-on bag. The guy noted that he normally carries the gun in his bag, but takes it out before traveling -- he just forgot to do so and was pretty spooked when he realized he had the gun on him (he reported the incident to the TSA upon landing).But even more scary than that is the article notes that the TSA admits that it's really bad at finding weapons, saying that the "failure rate" of tests is reaching 70% at some major airports and at some airports "every test gun, bomb part or knife got past screeners." So, while scanners are looking at or touching your crotch, they're apparently not bothering to look for guns. Comforting.
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Makes sense when you think about it.
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Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
Plus, as TSA employees get used to the distraction they will become less distracted, though the high turnover rate may always maintain a constant level of distraction.
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Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
And yet, we haven't had much more than clownish attempts that were quickly neutralized by people who had been paying any kind of attention whatsoever on 9/11.
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Re: Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
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Re: Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
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People who are prepared to DIE for their cause would be deterred by a 30% chance of failure?
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Re: Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
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Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
No, I would just make sure my remote detonator worked so that I could still kill dozens in the airport, and terrorize thousands.
Cause, ya know, that's why they are terrorists. Boo.
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Re: Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
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Logic fail.
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Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
Just as a reminder, the stops we've had recently have come from the passengers on the plane, not the people getting paid by our tax dollars.
also a %30 failure rate is hardly a deterrent to someone willing to strap an explosive on and blow themselves up.
We're all being conditioned to accept this ridiculous situation while the terrorists are laughing their a$$3$ off!
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Re: Re: Re: Makes sense when you think about it.
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Subject
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What? The TSA has a high employee turnover rate, it seems easy to get rid of them.
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From your link, only 200 of them were "terminated." The other 67,000 left voluntarily.
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I like the excuse....
Wow.
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Amazing trend in Gov't statistics- It's always either 30% or 70%
So even the FAA is 30% incorrect on their recordkeeping.
I bet those records of all your emails, credit card transactions, and phone calls are either 70% or 30% incorrect too. NTTAWWT.
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Re: Amazing trend in Gov't statistics- It's always either 30% or 70%
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Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
Whenever I go through TSA I am infuriated that we didn't just lock the cockpit door and call it good.
We are paying vast hordes of idiots to do a job that has already been accomplished by inanimate objects (cockpit doors). Who's dumber... the TSA employees that let weapons flow onto planes or us taxpayers who are paying them for the non-service?
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Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
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Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
After the very first hijacking, they should have re-designed all new commercial planes so that the passenger compartment is completely isolated from the cockpit. Coupled with a policy that says that at the first sign of a hijacking, the pilots will cut off all communication with the passenger compartment.
Kind of hard to hijack a plane if you can't access the cockpit and the pilot can't hear your threats.
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Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
The idea of hijacking as the main issue isn't right, it is the rare concept. Most attacks on aircraft are designed mostly to just take the plane down and kill everyone on board.
You blow a nice big hole in the side of an airplane, and pretty much the fun is over.
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Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
Even if they had..... big whoop. 150 people killed. Less than 1000th of the number killed IN CAR ACCIDENT ALONE SOLELY IN THE UNITED STATES EVERY YEAR!
Not a big danger, as I keep on pointing out!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
2 points.
1. The idea is to terrorise. That is, make Americans not feel safe. A plane bombed out of the air would sink the aviation industry lower and hurt the USA generally.
2. A plane bombed out of the air over a major city would be hard pressed to miss a load of people on the ground.
However, the shoe bomber would maybe have left enough of a plane for a pilot to make at least some choices before meeting the ground.
However, (and I said this after 9/11) if Al Quaeda really wanted to scare the American people they would pull off a million small operations in cities and small towns alike so NOBODY felt safe.
9/11 was for recruitment. There won't be a re-run of the same thing again.
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Mission accomplished
Absolutely true, and they've done the job very, very well. The US as a whole is scared out of its collective mind, and this shows no sign of changing, particularly not with the government doing everything it can to keep the fear level amped up as high as possible.
Look at what we've done: Out of fear, we have given up rights & liberty to a degree that would have been inconceivable only a short time ago. We've granted intrusive and oppressive additional powers to law enforcement agencies of all kinds, we've entered into two wars which are destroying us both morally and financially, and so forth. We've even starting referring to our country as the "homeland".
We are flinching at every shadow, randomly shooting our big rifle into the darkness and cowering, begging a big daddy to please protect us from the scary boogyman. We will give up anything to be made to feel safe -- even give up actual safety!
The fact is that we are not, and never were, in any serious danger from "terrorists." The terrorist threat present a much lower risk to us than other things we do every day, such as driving. We have become a nation of cowards and we are destroying ourselves because of it. That's the real threat.
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Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
The idea is to go for high yield with the greatest possibility of success. Even though TSA is a bunch of bumbling idiots they are still a risk; why take a risk when there are equally sexy targets with much less risk?
Added bonus: attacking security gives potential for the attackers to escape.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
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Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
Not necessarily. Look up Flight 243. Due to stress and metal fatigue, a large section of the passenger cabin roof and side was ripped away in flight. One crew member was sucked out of the plane, and some people suffered injuries from the debris, but the pilot was able to make an emergency landing with no other fatalities.
I'm not saying that a bomb going off wouldn't be a really bad thing to happen, just that the amount of explosives the shoe or underwear bomber had on them probably wouldn't have been likely to destroy the plane itself.
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Re: Re: Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
You obviously have never seen LOST.
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Re: Never pay a man to do the job of an inatimate object...
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The guy would have been tackled by security, the airport locked down, all flights grounded, etc.
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Help is on the way
I like when the guys says: "'The system you have in Europe and America is bull****. Unless you adopt an approach that actually works, whatever technology you care to use will make little difference. The terrorists will always be one step ahead,' says Rafi Sela, a top Israeli security consultant. Through his firm, AR Challenges, he is in charge of marketing the automated Israeli method to Europe and America as a complete package - what he calls Trust Based Security, or TBS.
Full report is here and well worth the read:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1336571/Terrorism-Can-really-stop-bomber-as king-Are-terrorist.html
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"A TSA spokesperson says the agency has conducted an investigation, saying remedial training was provided to the security officers involved in the incident. Advanced imaging technology and more stringent pat downs have also since been implemented."
I think I hurt myself laughing at the "remedial training". Is that something like, if you see a gun in the bag, don't let the passenger through?
Other than that they added body scanners and groping, neither of which will help with guns in bags getting through security. Personally, I think it would have been a lot funnier if the guy had gone through the full body scan and then realized he had a gun in his bag. EPIC fail.
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It's a Boring Job
Besides being ineffectual, this type of "security" is expensive. I was at at an airport where we had to wait for the ticket agents, the TSA folks were just standing around. When the airline ticket agents finally showed up we had to stand in line for them, the TSA agents just ambled about. Finally getting through the airline ticket agents, we lined up to go through the TSA line. The airline ticket agents; they were standing around. Waiting in line TWICE, that's American efficiency!!!
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In the words of Adam Savage
Reference link (LSFW), click on the big red box in the video. (LSFW)
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End Result?
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levels
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It is all about appearances (and a steady paycheck)
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Who cares about the TSA?
The profile of the most recent bombers and gun men is this ...
Is angry at the world.
Can't find a woman.
Can't get laid. (hence the anger)
Uses religion to express the anger.
How do we solve this?
Introduce them to AdultFriendFinder.com where anyone can get laid.
What just occured to me is maybe they have found this site on their own. I mean with the FBI setting people up to do christmas tree lighting bombings ... maybe they are getting laid.
Merry x-mas ... and send a trial subscription to to every mosque you can think of.
I'm on a camel ... again
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Body Scanning Airport Blues
Good luck to all who are traveling!
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who cares
they DO find people, they find smugglers all the time, and they find more people these days previously.
Most people think the extra inconvienence is worth it.
Plus, people will not take the risk to try, even if they have a 70% chance of making it.. 70% is too high a risk.
Would you like to have an operation (for something non life threatening) if you only had a 7 in 10 change of not dying?
(Mike, I see you cannot fix your web site, very sad)..
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Re: who cares
Is it? Oh goody. Please provide the clear evidence then. Do they? I hear stories of people being stopped with dangerous items like knitting needles, toy guns etc. Are you talking about drugs? Occasionally they catch a drug mule but news stories I've seen seem to suggest that siezures fluctuate more as a relatively fixed percentage of the total amount being smuggled than any greater sucess. If you have figures I'd love to see them. No YOU think it's worth it. "Most people" I would imagine grumble about it but don't think in too much detail and take a "Well what can you do" attitude. I don't know about your "most people", but most of the people I know have at least 1 story either first or 2nd hand of a "dangerous" item getting through security and think it's all a farce. On what are you basing that? You're contradicting yourself now. If "smugglers" are caught all the time then it's clear "people" are taking the risk. By extension at least 30% of people are "taking the risk" and not being caught. I would also suggest that the "risk" is significantly lower than 30% if you are deliberately trying to conceal an item using the (published) deficiencies of the systems. And now the random and meaningless analogy. To relate that anywhere near airport security, which is difficult in the extreme and still meaningless you would be talking about a 7 in 10 chance for an immediately fatal condition. These people are willing to die in most cases.
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Re: who cares
It's not that he can't prevent you from posting, it's that he chooses not to.
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there's not much about the TSA procedures that seems very effective
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I'm not sure what the purpose of lying is, but if you can actually go through the process of packing for a trip, driving to the airport and go through security without remembering their is a loaded gun in your bag, you need brain surgery.
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I have forgotten to remove a swiss army knife from my keychain before going to the airport (which the TSA didn't notice despite me HANDING MY KEYS TO THE GUY). Items we carry all of the time become ignored quickly.
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Wait a minute
So are you saying there's a 70% fail rate on the scanners? That appears to be the implication. I was under the impression we were using the scanners *because* we had a 70% fail rate and this improved that greatly.
Are we manipulating stats in the above quote or are the scanners really failing that bad? If it is a twist on the facts, what is the real fail rate now with the scanners?
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We are not flying any more
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Re: We are not flying any more
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TSA
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Sometimes they find things
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