Man Acquitted In Lawsuit Over Filming The TSA And Not Showing ID
from the good-for-him dept
A few folks have sent in variations on this story, involving how a guy named Phil Mocek has been acquitted of charges filed by the TSA after he refused to show TSA officials his ID back in 2009. Mocek had no ID on him and noted (correctly) that you do not, in fact, need ID to fly. He filmed the entire incident and then was charged with four misdemeanors: disorderly conduct, concealing his identity, refusing to obey a police officer, and criminal trespass. You can see the video here:Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: TSA
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
I say they should be held accountable, to the maximum extent of the law. They'd do the same to me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
Actually you do...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
It might reduce frivolous lawsuits to a certain extent (although, in general, paying YOUR OWN attorneys fees discourages that), but it would also restrict just about any average citizen from pursuing justice against a wealthier adversary.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Shouldn't the officers get in some type of trouble in fact breaking the law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I wish more people would do this..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
No, the TSA won
The only satisfaction is if he can recover some of that money from the airport authority.
However, from the video - I don't blame the officers. They are only following the rules as they were explained to them; they at no time became belligerent or physical, they handled him exactly how a difficult but not physical or belligerent individual should be handled. Good for them, such restraint is rare in newsworthy police videos.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: No, the TSA won
What part of "Do not touch me" did you not hear (0:38)?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
No, the TSA won
While you may debate the merits of assault vs. guiding firmly, based on camera movement and overall video, at no time did either side degenerate into a contest of force. GOod for the (non)cops.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What part of "Do not touch me" did you not hear (0:38)?
There's a big difference between guiding someone firmly by the arm ...
Where I live, I believe the term for an act like that is “common assault”.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: What part of "Do not touch me" did you not hear (0:38)?
There's a big difference between guiding someone firmly by the arm ...
Where I live, I believe the term for an act like that is “common assault”.
-Everyone says that, but I'd love to see a real-life case where a police officer calmly says "I'm going to escort you outside" and then does only that while holding the person's arm... and ends up being charged, let alone convicted, of assault. OTOH, yes, if you lay hands on the police uninvited, you WILL be charged with assualt.
The whole episode is stupid, the charges a waste of money, but I stand by my statement. The agents were calm and controlled, even if the rules they were told to enforece were wrong. For that - I give them credit.
As for proving a point - I still don't see people freely walking onto planes without ID, and I bet it doesn't happen down there yet either.
So the guy's proved nothing yet. But good for him anyway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: What part of "Do not touch me" did you not hear (0:38)?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: No, the TSA won
Freedman Boyd Hollander Goldberg Ives & Duncan PA
20 FIRST PLAZA CTR NW STE 700
ALBUQUERQUE NM 87102-5802 This information and more can be found on an FAQ maintained by the Identity Project.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: No, the TSA won
And you really want to praise them for showing "restraint?" They deprived him of his liberty without cause. To me that's anything but showing restraint. That's clearly abusing their authority. The key is, again, the guy was breaking no laws whatsoever. If the cops believed he was, they were wrong, NOT HIM. They require discipline, NOT HIM.
Jeeze.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
My post was deleted??
The law is for protection of Private property.
You cant TAPE ME on my own property, without permission.
YOU CAN tape me if I am on YOUR property.
Public places and locations...OPEN to anyone that wishes to record you. THAT is how Business works and can get away with recording Thieves in stores. Unless they DECLARE they are private property, which means you MUST have permission to record.
A police building is a PUBLIC facility. Only protection you have is IF' you declare it and in the restroom.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My post was deleted??
Please don't over simplify. What is or isn't illegal depends on whether you are being charged under Federal or State law, and if state, which state. It isn't so simple as public vs. private property. Laws about wiretaping, consent and surveillance, BTW, are not about the protection of property rights.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: My post was deleted??
AND what they maintain to BE FOR.
And each state, has different suggestions on the point...
"CAN 1 person record a private conversation or does BOTH PARTIES NEED TO KNOW" is the only concern.
I have said it before...CONGRESS and the REPS, are public servants..Why arent they photograph as much as our Movie stars? and the only reason is ITS ILLEGAL...WHY?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: My post was deleted??
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
concealing his identity - nope - im sure his name was on the ticket.
refusing to obey a police officer - nope
criminal trespass - nope - he had a ticket and was supposed to be there.
I was sitting on the hood of my car with friends when a pig pulled up and said he heard "loud engines and tire squealing." I guess because we were sitting on a 72 split bumper Camaro and an 81 Firebird it MUST have been us.
He then proceeds to grab my arm and throw me on to the hood of my car and search me, then my car. He found nothing and seemed irritated by this then told me I was being arrested for disorderly conduct. Never checked the hood or engine to see if it was hot, never looked at the back tires for rubber on or in the wheel well. Nothing. Just another stupid pig bastard that lost a court case. Of course nothing happened to the pig.
disorderly conduct = bullshit excuse for pigs to arrest you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Who knew?
Well obviously they did.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
you do not, in fact, need ID to fly
Really????
Is the ID requirement a regulation and not a law???
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That's just plain wrong. The law REQUESTS you be able to provide valid ID AT ALL TIMES. Either on the street, in a restaurant, or in your own home. If an officer of the law requests ID, you have to provide it; otherwise be detained while they verify your identify.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
No, the law requires you to identify yourself. This is not the same thing as owning and carrying a government-issued ID.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You do need to identify yourself if ask. My name is John Doe is ID.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
There are NO stop and identify laws in the US
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Hiibel
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
One vary odd issue came up when someone was informed he had to submit to a search after passing through immigration. In this case he only wanted to leave the airport and had been searched in Europe and by INS and simply said, no thank you I do not wish to be searched.
TSA is not a well trained group whom know the rules and how to make them stick. If we're going to have a group like this then should we at least use well trained officers and not rent a cops?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Really
If he was asked to produce ID and he didn't have it, he has a choice in relating the info or not. "I don't have any ID on my right now, but my name is Fname Lname" is how I might say it.
"I don't have to show you my ID, sir" is antagonistic if you don't have any ID to produce.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Really
So? It's the truth, so what's the difference? Are private citizens required to be meek sheep nowadays?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Really
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Really
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Really
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What Carolla would say...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
People now need to have a pornoscan at the door of the airport with groping for everyone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Power tripping a*holes
They should be charged with disturbing the peace, false imprisonment, and abuse of power.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A jerk?
I fail to see why he should be regarded as a jerk just because he was upholding his rights. All the "officials" concerned were obviously making things up as they went along just because the poor guy was questioning their actions. To be captured on video doing this doesn't exactly show above-average intelligence. Very similar to the police here in the UK (and across the pond as well, I believe) who have been harassing (and in one case located near me, actually arresting, see http://monaxle.com/2009/07/08/section-44-in-chatham-high-street/) photographers in the street for no good reason. Once again, making it up as they go along. As can be seen in the follow-up to the UK story, the arrest was deemed "unlawful" by no less an authority than the police complaints investigators and I would assume there will be some legal action forthcoming, as, indeed there will presumably be in this case. Sue the pants off' em!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: A jerk?
Everyone fails to see that, because no one said it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
accountability?
These people can just twist the law into their favor and not get punished for doing it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
from TSA website
So, indeed, you DON'T have to show photo ID, but there is no guarantee that you will get on the plane if you don't. By the way, how to you propose to verify identity without a photo ID? Presumably identifying yourself verbally is not the same as verifying that you are who you say you are.
By the way, if I was standing in line at security and ended up missing my flight because of some smart aleck in front of me trying to prove a point, I'd be pretty pissed. Not that it happened in this instance, but just saying, in case a significant number of you are getting any bright ideas about trying this.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: from TSA website
The better question is: How does verifying identity make flying safer? Furthermore, when I was 17 I had a fake ID. If *I* can do it, you think it will be tough for a well-funded and motivated terrorist organization to get one? Really?
By the way, if I was standing in line at security and ended up missing my flight because of some smart aleck in front of me trying to prove a point, I'd be pretty pissed. Not that it happened in this instance, but just saying, in case a significant number of you are getting any bright ideas about trying this.
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"-- Mario Savio's Sproul Hall speech December 3, 1964.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: from TSA website
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: from TSA website
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: from TSA website
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: from TSA website
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ignorant
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: ignorant
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
What other offenses do you wish I had been charged with? I didn't commit any of the four offenses of which I was accused. I didn't violate any law.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
That pretty much tells you what you need to know about this mindset.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
You contacted TA to see if theres any rules against it, in other words, you went in with a mentally to cause a scene. You refuse to show ID which everyone needs to present so they know it is your damn boarding pass. Common, don't tell me you had no plans to make a scene.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When someone's lawful behavior -- whether it be as calm and respectful as my behavior at the airport that day or more rude and distasteful than I ever behave -- *bothers* agents of our government, I want those agents not to lock that person in a cage and lie about that lawful behavior in an attempt to justify having taken away that person's freedom.
I want agents of our government who engage in such misconduct to be removed from their positions of power.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
As for prior contact, that was an unrelated project. It had been something like eight months since that contact, and I had contacted 50 U.S. airports at the suggestion of TSA staff.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You could have walked up with the cam, said "I don't have my I.D." and waited, like I have done, they will pull you aside, and confirm your identity but you will be identified. Who told you that you can fly ONLY with a boarding pass, saying "yes, that is me" without any kind of verification done to see if the person presenting the boarding pass is the real person? Wouldn't that make it EXTREMELY easy for just about any felon to fly out?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
So not acting like everyone else is a crime now?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It is not a crime either to hammer in your own nuts, and not everyone else is doing it, why don't more people do that? Why don't you protest about things that matter, not airport security which the majority of people will only go thru 2 or 3 times a year.
And you do not have to show I.D. and if you don't show it, guess what, they will sit you down, call someone and it will take about half hour but your identity will be confirmed, you do not need your I.D. to fly, but your identity will be proved. How is that any better than showing your I.D.?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
No, my experience has been that airport security guards do ask for documentation of identity of people who wish to cross the TSA barricade. But they don't demand it. TSA publishes lots of false information about this topic, but the truth is that they do not require us to show any paperwork other than a boarding pass.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]