Do Tools Ever Die Off?
from the species-extinction dept
Robert Krulwich, who has done some interviews with Kevin Kelly recently, highlighted a recent discussion in which Kelly makes quite a claim:"I say there is no species of technology that have ever gone globally extinct on this planet."Further in the debate, Kelly expanded and even bet Krulwich that he couldn't find any tool, no matter how far back in the past it was from, that wasn't still being made today (and made new) somewhere in the world. Krulwich brings up a few suggestions, each of which gets shot down, including "paleolithic hammers." Turns out they're still being made (mostly by hobbyists). He then went through a bunch of pages of an 1895 Montgomery Ward catalog... and found that every one is still being made. So Krulwich asked people to chime in with suggestions, and they've come up with a few, such as radium suppositories, a Roman corvus (a ship boarding tool) and the ferrite core of a Seeburg Jukebox. Kelly's job is to try to find if all of these are still being made.
Of course, some of this depends on how you view the initial premise. The initial claim from Kelly was that no species of technology has ever gone extinct -- and in that case, you should be able to include more updated technologies that are better/safer/more efficient. But, in the interview, Kelly does seem to take it a step further in claiming that no tool itself was no longer being made new. So, I'm curious if anyone can actually find "new" versions of the things listed above.
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Filed Under: extinction, kevin kelly, technology, tools
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Well,
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Re: Well,
you and me both.
tho, ted "old intertubes" stevens is no longer with us.
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Re:
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When is a tool a new tool, and when is it an improved version of an old tool?
Not that it can't be both. But, at which point do they become mutually exclusive?
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Damascus Steel
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Re: Damascus Steel
As far as history is concerned, we're not sure whether or not Damascus steel has been replicated.
FIFY
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Re: Damascus Steel
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Re:
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clever distinction: tools vs. techniques
but what about the techniques or methods for applying a tool?
for example: because they are generally made of steel, forceps will probably always exist, but will their use in childbirth become a lost art?
thanks to cheap video recording and storage, this may not be the case in the future, since historical "documents" may include historical footage, but techniques of the recent past may die off with their practitioners.
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Greek Fire
That said, I just want to say, the number of "tools" that are no longer in use can probably be counted on your own ten fingers, so the point is still pretty much valid, and I'm willing to bet that out of 7 billion people, there's at least one who knows SOME of this, and just doesn't realize what they've accomplished or isn't willing to share.
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Re: Greek Fire
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Re:
Total fail ... every lighter has flint in it.
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Re:
They still make flint strikers. Though I'm sure the hardcore are still using bows and cottonwood fluff.
Me, all I need to start a fire is a good stare.
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Re:
also don't they use flint in survivor (or is that show over?)
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Well...
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Hmm...
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Re: Hmm...
As for flesh hooks I believe they are still used for smoking.
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A tool by any other name
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Re: A tool by any other name
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Not here perhaps...
Flesh Hook -- Modern Gaff for fishing?
Winnowing -- still done with a basket in parts of India and Africa
Mouldboard Pough -- modern plows mounted to tractors are still like that.
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Re: Not here perhaps...
And are modern tractors really equivalent to using a mouldboard? Or am I just being picky?
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Radium suppositories
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Re:
(and, nixie tubes are awesome! Why on earth would anybody let them die out?)
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Stone Axes and Bone Knives?
Cups for sadistic rituals made from human skulls?
Oh wait, I bet they still need those at the Bohemian Grove, lol.
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Good theory
But it is possible to "lose" technology. For example, the Roman formula for concrete was lost for about 700 years. (Imagine if they had concrete for building Medieval fortresses instead of stone.) Likewise, all of the technology used in Roman baths have not been fully rediscovered. The Romans used air channels in the walls and under floors to heat rooms and water to different temperatures. We're not 100% sure about how they were able to adjust the temperatures.
And certainly some technology in ancient times may have been independently developed, such as pyramid building in the Old and New Worlds. But it's a good theory.
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selection effect
1) A technology was never really any good, we just thought it was, and now we know better. Quack medical remedies and ritualistic magic? I can't think of any that don't still exist (I've seen advertisements for therapeutic magnetic bracelets in contemporary and Victorian newspapers). Maybe Fermat's proof of his Last Theorem.
2) The use for a certain tool no longer exists. Mammoth spears? Dodo clubs? Smallpox vaccine? Well, scratch that last one. And I thought about things associated with animal sacrifice and the slave trade, but that just made me feel depressed.
3) As Chuck D. Money (was your grandfather a Count?) illustrates, a technology can be lost. But that splits into a couple of sub-fields:
Now for a fun parlor game, see how a little accident of luck or history could nudge each example from one category to another.
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Re: selection effect
(unknown unknowns,known unknowns etc)
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Re: selection effect
The blue colour in medieval stained glass and the secret of Stradivarius violins are often touted as examples - but it is not clear that either really are .
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Also, someone once invented a utensil with a knife on one end, and a spoon on another. That dead ended as well.
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What about these?
What about Edison-style wax phonograph cylinders?
8-track audio cartridge tapes?
Rotary dial phones?
Black-and-white TVs?
8-inch floppy discs?
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how about a music player
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Proof
People using tools for the sake of preserving antiquities, historical researchers and the like, ensure that if someone has heard of a tool, it won't satisfy the challenge.
It reminds me of a proof that seems true, but is unprovable because an infinite (or unknown) set of prospect counter examples. He's laying the onus on others to disprove him, but the lack of disproof will never result in a proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godel's_incompleteness_theorems
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Re: Proof
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I can imagine that paper tape readers are not still made. I actually have some paper tape from the early '70s that encodes the World3 model (look up Club of Rome, the limits to growth). It is fragile now and likely wouldn't survive being read. If for some reason you actually wanted to read it I would try scanning it with a manual optical scanner and write a program to do a translation.
Another example: I don't believe that Dolby DBX disc decoders or encoders are being made. DBX discs are vinyl records encoded using DBX noise reduction. Not a lot of albums were made (I've heard 1100). I have two of them. It's very impressive to listen to them in comparison to standard vinyl releases. No surface noise at all! The decoding could be done entirely in software but I don't think that has been done. Why bother? If you need to transfer your album to another format, I will rent you my DBX 228 decoder for $2.28/day.
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http://www.science20.com/news_articles/lost_sounds_orchestra_ancient_musical_instruments_b rought_back_life
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Extinct Technologies
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