Did The Record Labels Kill The Golden Goose In Music Video Games?
from the of-course-they-did... dept
For the last decade or so, every year the major record labels seem to bet on some single "magic bullet" to fix all that ails them. They go through phases. There was their own crappy DRM'd and locked-down music stores. There were ringtones. And... there were music video games like Guitar Hero and Rockband. And, of course, as soon as those games actually started helping the recording industry, the industry decided to suck them dry. Edgar Bronfman kicked it off by declaring angrily that those games had to pay much more to license the music -- even though the music in those games tended to lead to much greater sales of albums for those artists.And now it looks like the labels may have succeeded in bleeding those types of games dry. With Activision announcing that it was dumping Guitar Hero, one of the major reasons given is the high cost of licensing music. Yup, the labels priced things so high that they made it impractical to actually offer any more. Yet another case of the labels overvaluing their own content. Now, it's also true that these games haven't evolved that much, and people haven't seen the point of buying new versions, but part of that lack of evolving is because so much of the budget had to go towards overpaying for music, rather than innovating.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: guitar hero, music, video games
Companies: activision
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Great joy !!!
Take Gun, Shoot Foot.
This seems to be the pattern for all content companies. Overvalue the content, then keep pushing for a greater piece of the pie. We see it here, we see it with all the record label and website deals that caused bankruptcy, we see it with the TV networks charging ever higher rebroadcast fees.
Great Joy!!! I might have to downgrade the lot of them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Great joy !!!
osu is the way to go but i can only play it while highly caffeinated on easy levels(reativly 99% of songs got 5 star ratings)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Activision was short sighted and greedy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
In this case, the "bang for the buck" factor for Guitar Hero was greatly reduced due to the genre dieing off AND the higher cost of music licensing now.
I have friends that were working on Arcade products based on American Idol and other music-related arcade games and they were scrapped because the music was such a PAIN IN THE ASS to license. Detailed book keeping needed to be done, did the person make a video? Did they burn it to DVD? How many times did a song play each day? How much did the operator charge? The Music industry wanted to know *everything* about how the music was consumed.
This was even after test units were made, deployed into test markets and were producing great returns, but ultimately, it was all dumped because it was easier to go make race car games instead of dealing with the hassle of music licensing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
So very cool isn't it. We don't need piracy to kill the labels when the labels exist to nickle and dime themselves to death.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: choice
Enough vampire books for you? How 'bouts garage bands? Maybe there are to many inventors and entrepreneurs working in garages?
If you are unable to discern excellent from mediocre, read a forum filled with people who can. Don't limit my choice because you can't make a decision.
Which Kazoo band is your favorite?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: choice
Look at the latest from both sides, GH released a version with some kind of poorly thought out "return to our roots" scheme and a crappy looking guitar that looked like an axe. Meanwhile, RockBand adding a keyboard and pro mode which made playing instruments in the game very real AND they went added a tutorial that will actually teach you to play real instruments. Which one sounds more interesting?
Plus, seeing the GH brand all over clothes and whatever else they could get people to pay them to put it on really made it seem ridiculous. They stopped focusing on the game a long time ago. Licensing fees likely added to their problems, but not changing the game really at all in the 5 years since it first appeared didn't help any.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: choice
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Metallica, AC/DC, and plenty of others are finding an entirely new generation of fans. Well, were finding an entirely new generation of fans.
I've said it before, if radio was invented now, it would have been sued and priced out of existence. And the whole era of selling tons of overpriced music etched on vinyl and plastic never would have existed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Perhaps to curve the 95+ year copy protection lengths, people should start writing content that either enters the public domain or is permissibly licensed after 5 years or so. It's copyright for the first 5 years, and then it's not. The license should come with the content so that there is no opportunity to later change ones mind. Otherwise, we are buying content that will be lost to history with future generations being unable to access it.
So much popular content, like the Beach Boys and the Beatles, should have been in the public domain a long time ago but it isn't (it's been like 40 years or so). Sure, this content (because of its extreme popularity) might survive copy'right' oppression, but a lot of less popular music may not. To preserve our cultural history, we need to ensure to adopt a culture that is preservable, not one that can easily vanish in history due to oppressive laws.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
While the music is not the leading factor in these games (as shown by the sales of the games) it is certainly important. Sadly, though, the record labels missed the point that could have helped them a lot. They gave fans a way to be part of the band. Talk about the best way to connect with your fans...put them in your band? While that was not very scalable in the past, these games could give kids the feeling of being in a band they liked.
That's BIG and should have been the record label focus. Play really well and we send you some mp3's (just give us your email address). Hey - wouldn't you look cooler wearing the same shirt as your favorite drummer? Score a spot on stage or in our next video. The possibilities of connecting are endless and scale to millions of people.
They really botched this one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
As for the music, I don't think the popularity of the songs matters as much as people expect. Look at how many bands came up from obscurity thanks to these games. Almost all of my favorite songs from the franchise are from bands and music I never heard of before, and I doubt I'm alone here.
Dragonforce is a great example; nobody knew who they were, but that song in the game was awesome and super fun to play, and as a result, they became a band that most people now know about. The Sleeping and The Fall of Troy were the same deal; amazing songs that were really fun to play and nothing I've ever heard before exposure from that game.
Had Activision had their decent own music for the games (with some label tunes mixed in for the kids), they could have released that music as free downloads or mail-order CDs and people would have eaten that up if the songs were enjoyable and fun to play in the game. They did have some stuff, but it was mostly there for show, lacked vocals and were just like 1 minute tracks that nobody cared about. If they spent real time and money developing their own content, I really think it would have been successful, and still likely cheaper (and definitely more profitable) than licensing it all from someone else.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I thought it was because of Dean's Hilarious lipsyncing of it during the credits of season 4, episode 6. :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
If you don't know, you're obviously not a fan of the show. ;)
I'll give you a hint, it's now on Friday nights.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Guitar Hero - stuck in the 1400s
Another opportunity for indie artists. Do you think Activision will sell me the code and rights?
Businesses like music or book publishers still think virtually unlimited information can be priced like scarce resources. The illiterate monks in their scriptoria need to discover Gutenberg. Things have changed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Guitar Hero - stuck in the 1400s
There are already open source clones - no need to approach activision
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Guitar Hero - stuck in the 1400s
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Guitar Hero - stuck in the 1400s
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: What I was hoping for
Actually, this I think is an aspect of where the music game genre will eventually go. Instead of being a simple game for kids, eventually someone (Rockstar?) will come out with one of these music games that actually includes a social storyline. Think back to skateboarding games and what happened when the Tony Hawk series finally stuck something in their games that at least had a modicum of interactive story behind it. And that was SKATEBOARDING!
How much material could be generated behind a game based on being a rock legend? I'm picturing some strange mix of Guitar Hero, The Sims, and GTA. I don't know what it would look like exactly, but it would GLORIOUS. Think of the things that could be included:
1. Fighting with your corrupt band manager/label
2. Infighting within your bandmates
3. Drugs/Sex
4. Evolving into a mega-band that headlines progressive type concerts like Woodstock
5. Getting into trouble with the law and having to do a concert in prison like Johnny Cash
6. Getting caught w/multiple girlfriends
7. Having the cops/govt. after you because of your band's message
8. Building your awesome megastar house and furnishing it
9. Dealing with stalking fans
10. ???
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: What I was hoping for
11. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
12. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
13. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
14. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
15. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
16. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
17. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
...
72. Being turned down by a record executive
73. Working as a waiter while trying to get the attention of a record label executive.
...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That game already exists.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: That game already exists.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Well,
They disappeared with pleasing ringing sound and a flash of light.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Well,
Or I may have been drinking at a pub in Dublin...I can't quite remember.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What I was hoping for
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I don't think so...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Sometimes there are failures in music not relating to the (albeit definitely evil) labels. Sometimes products just don't sell anymore. Your cherry picking of the facts to suit your agenda is becoming more common and frankly, I thought you were better than a cable news outlet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The article itself said that the high cost of licensing is hurting them. Mike is just drawing attention to it, not cherry picking. Frankly your slanting is worse than the cable new outlets you chide mike for being like.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Activision had no problem signing up and paying the fees when the market was good. The fees haven't changed, the market did. Blame the high cost of raw materials is cherry picking. Perhaps you want to read an unbiased version of the story:
http://games.on.net/article/11570/UPDATED_Activision_Financials_Released_Guitar_Hero_disba nded_Diablo_III_Delayed
Guitar Hero and True Crime are the first two major franchises to feel the bite due to lacklustre sales and less than promising development respectively
Lackluster sales.
The flagship Guitar Hero franchise has been struggling in what CEO Bobby Kotick calls a "declining" music game genre
Declining genre.
Perhaps you could read their actual press release:
http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=548900
At the same time, due to continued declines in the music genre, the company will disband Activision Publishing's Guitar Hero business unit and discontinue development on its Guitar Hero game for 2011. The company also will stop development on True Crime: Hong Kong™. These decisions are based on the desire to focus on the greatest opportunities that the company currently has to create the world's best interactive entertainment experiences.
In a sampling of about 20 different stories plucked from Google news results, I couldn't find a single story that directly quoted anyone about the licensing costs. The Wired story very specifically doesn't use quotes. Yet the direct quotes from their own statements don't address licensing. In each case, they cite a declining market place.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You cannot just extract one thing and hold it up. It's a package.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Activision had no problem signing up and paying the fees when the market was good. The fees haven't changed, the market did.
The fees should have changed in line with the market - that is the problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This isn't steel or oil dumb ass, it's an infinitely available resource. Look it up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You need to learn where the the scarcities are. There will be no more Beatles songs. There will be no more Ronnie James Dio. There will be no more Led Zeppelin. Those things are finite, rare, and truly valuable.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
May as well remove all the copyrights associated with them then as they will not be motivated by it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Complaining about the major labels is last year's news. There are far more creative ways to make music these days than Guitar Hero and Rockband.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The reason people buy the game is for the game, and that includes the music. Crappy music, no matter how good the same play, would still be crappy music you don't know. There is a great cool factor in pulling of a major riff from well known song, not so much in pulling off what some dude you don't know just did.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you are saying that the music game has little or no value unless it is associated with famous musicians, then it's reasonable for the famous musicians to feel they should be paid a sponsorship fee for lending their names to the product.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The artists are paid fees for their likeness as used in the games. They are also paid fees for the use of their music. It's pretty normal.
Without the music, it would be "silence hero" or "why did I buy an empty game box".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Just like almost any fad, it has come, it has peaked, and is now in decline.
I also agree, cherry picking facts or trying to line things up with an agenda is a real problem these days.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110207/02222612989/if-artists-dont-value-copyright-their-work s-why-do-we-force-it-them.shtml
The labels may be evil, but being dishonest or misleading about them doesn't really help the case.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Are you not very good with the word "or"?
dishonest or misleading. That is sort of important.
As I mentioned elsewhere, without the music, the game would have been, well, "Musak hero" or "Musak Band" or something like that, and would have sold remarkably well. They could have made a ton of money off of people wanting to play elevator music renditions of 95 year old music.
It is a basic invalid point, because without music, there was nothing.
The reality is the marketplace for this sort of thing is dying. The buzz has come and gone. It isn't a label issue, it isn't an Activision issue, it isn't a licensing issue - it's an issue of a market that has been satisfied with what it has, and no longer expresses any interest in buying further in that market.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
But that doesn't count for music in general does it?
Nope, it is the "pirates" fault.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I agree with previous posters. They should have gone after the artists willing to offer their music at low/no cost for promotional purposes.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I wonder how much many they paid in licensing compared to research and development/innovation?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
MY guess is that they would be laughed out of the station and told never to darken their doors again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
This is from this article: http://bit.ly/fGlUhH
Reading the links in the articles is a positive thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
The Wired writer added opinion, not fact. The spokesman did not say that. What Mike then did was use it as fact, when it is not supported by what was actually said, what was in the press release, etc.
Unless you have an actual quote of the spokesman, it sort of didn't happen. What it means is the entire rant Mike went on against record labels on this one isn't supported by what Activision said.
It's shocking that you can't understand that basic idea.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I agree with the first part, and it's really kind of desperate and sad lately.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Or, I guess he could flip burgers or something, but he seems kinda good at this interweb stuff.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
AJ, your inability to comprehend what I have to say does not make what I say intellectually dishonest.
That you blatantly misrepresent what I say to try to make me look intellectually dishonest? That's intellectually dishonest.
Grow up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's exactly right. Mike doesn't want to be called out or corrected, and the last thing he ever wants to do is admit that a view contrary to his own has merit. Yet, he claims to have an open mind. It's rather quite amusing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I regularly admit to errors and regularly make corrections. I also quite frequently change my mind on issues based on discussions in the comments.
What I do not do, is agree with ridiculously wrong statements from people who misrepresent what I say because of some childish desire to puff up their own egos. I'm sorry if I can't help you there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Citation Needed. A link to a recent comment or article would be very helpful. Thanks!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You won't get one, don't worry. You'd think with his super-open mind there'd be plenty. The fact is, he only admits he's wrong if there's just no possible way to continue standing his ground--and even then, he usually just remains silent rather than admit fault. If there's the least bit of gray area, he exploits it. He's rather good at being crafty, I'll give him that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
There are other examples, that one was the most recent that I remember off the top of my head.
But I suppose you really didn't want an example, did you?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
However, can you remember a single time, ever, where Mike has conceded to the argument of someone who disagreed with him in a comment? Printing a factual correction to a story is one thing. Admitting that another has the stronger argument is entirely different, and something that is exceedingly difficult to do if you have a bloated ego. To me, there is nothing more mature and intellectually satisfying than when someone says "gosh, you are right. I never thought about it like that. Excellent point!" Needless to say, in all my time posting here I have yet to see Mike ever come close to a comment like that in the face of an intellectual challenge (and I can't imagine that a good point is never made despite the "trolls"). He usually resorts to childish name-calling, a claim that someone is "misrepresenting" him or outright lying or intellectually dishonest. A good example here and here. It really is one of the most frustrating aspects of this site. I think Mike provides much-needed commentary in the copyright debate. It's unfortunate that he feels the need to resort to such levels in the comments.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
From now on when Mike claims he's not lying, I'll just assume he's still intentionally misrepresenting the truth.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Corrections? The only corrections I see are spelling and punctuation errors, and about once a month a correction when the story changes. Otherwise, few admissions of perhaps getting it wrong.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
What is annoying is when he intentionally mis-represents things, or carefully leaves out things that would undercut his opinion. In this case the quote on licensing isn't even a quote in the original Wired article, it is an non-quoted attribution from the writer.
When you look at the press release from Activision (which is what I would have expect Mike to do) they don't mention licensing at all, just a market that is disappearing. Since other "music game" companies are seeing the same results, it would appear to be about the market, and nothing else.
With hundreds of people on the payroll and a product who's last update only pushed out about 60,000 copies, you can tell which way the wind is blowing.
Market forces are like that. Playing games to try to attribute it to something else is only because it meets up with Mike's view of the universe, not the facts as presented.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You nailed it. By acurately describing you and other's shilltards way of commenting here. Good thing people can see through it. Just don't become so depressed as Average_Joe for being shut down every time he tries to pretend Mike did say something he didn't.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When you play both sides of things, it is very easy to weasel out of being pinned down. The last thing Mike wants to do is get pinned down to anything, because it would limit his ability to jump in front of a bandwagon and act like the leader of the clan. If his opinions and ideals were hard and fast and clear, he might actually have to defend them. Instead, he waffles and weasels and plays both sides.
Average Joe doesn't get it wrong, he just gets shot down because he is trying to pin the tail on the weasel, who has just changed sides when you weren't looking.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
If you can't recognize your own bias as part of the conversation, then you're going to spend every moment of your time on this site being frustrated and making silly, bitter-sounding comments like this.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
But isn't that how lawyers normally argue cases in a court of law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hilarious!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It is remarkable to think of a site that has about 2000 posts a year, and they guy making them is never wrong. It's a freaking miracle, call the Rabbi!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 10th, 2011 @ 8:05am
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Karaoke for non-vocalists
-C
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Karaoke for non-vocalists
Realistically, that's a low energy way to make a "new" game and thanks to cognitive dissonance, execs couldn't help but figure the new music would make the games sell like hotcakes.
Without all the music industries jedi mind tricks, the execs wouldn't have lost sight of the need to innovate.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: S.O.P.
The end result is that when they want to buy those rights later, the cost structures are different, and their total market too small to justify them.
It's all about people making poor choices up front. Ask Nina Paley about that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: S.O.P.
Morris insists there wasn't a thing he or anyone else could have done differently. "There's no one in the record company that's a technologist," Morris explains. "That's a misconception writers make all the time, that the record industry missed this. They didn't. They just didn't know what to do. It's like if you were suddenly asked to operate on your dog to remove his kidney. What would you do?"
Personally, I would hire a vet. But to Morris, even that wasn't an option. "We didn't know who to hire," he says, becoming more agitated. "I wouldn't be able to recognize a good technology person — anyone with a good bullshit story would have gotten past me." Morris' almost willful cluelessness is telling. "He wasn't prepared for a business that was going to be so totally disrupted by technology," says a longtime industry insider who has worked with Morris. "He just doesn't have that kind of mind."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
Speaking of non-relevant slams. Hypocrite.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
You went off on someone for not knowing about technology or hiring a technologist. That doesn't have anything to do with copyright, does it?
If you want to troll, at least try harder.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
And knowing about technology, at least the basics, should be an essential on the resume of anyone who is working in content creation.
And as for your earlier citation needed request:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola
Look at the section about third-parties. Then ask yourself how it's relevant to my assertion. Because it is relevant.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
Actually, if I understand the story, she made the entire movie and THEN approached the rights holders.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
This is definitely not the way to do it because the lawyers know they have you. But if you approach rights holders first and say you don't have any money to pay them upfront but could perhaps work out a deal where they get something if you make something, often they will agree. I've dealt with filmmakers that way.
And MTV, for example, has a standard contract where they ask for permission to use your music but they don't offer to pay anything. Many rights holders agree because they want the exposure.
So get permission first if you are making a movie.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: S.O.P.
Paley used songs that were in the PUBLIC DOMAIN, expect that each state has their own individual, bizarre "rights" tacked on. It was legal for her to sell CDs of the music, but to show an image at the same time is somehow different and requires payment.
The whole system is ridiculous. The idea that you should be continuously paid for work done many years again is beyond illogical. They expect to be able to sell you something and still have complete control over how you use it. You can do this with the music, but if you do that, you owe us more money. I don't owe Subaru money every time I give someone a ride or loan them my car. I don't have to get their permission to paint it a different color or put bigger tires on it. I don't have to pay a "performance fee" to drive it in public.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
After that, they slice the rights down into slivers to allow them to be sold, transfered, or marketed. The right for music CDs, example. The right for radio play. The right for use in a movie, or a commercial. The rights for the underlying song, the lyrics, the music, etc. The sheet music versions of same.
They are all slices of a single right, chopped up into finer parts to fit the various marketplaces.
You can also end up in a situation with partial rights. As an example, an artist records a song in the public domain. They don't get the song writing or lyrican rights, but they do get performance rights, and rights to sell the CD, play on radio, use in movie, etc "for that performance of the song".
Where many people make a mistake is assuming that a song is in the public domain (say like Beethoven's 5th), and miss that a performance, recorded this year, is actually copyright. Not the underlying music - the performance.
It's pretty simple, unless you are trying to make it complicated, or if you fail to get information before you start spending money, aka making poor choices up front.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: S.O.P.
I think it is more a question of music that she feels should have been in the public domain but for various reasons is not. I wouldn't be shocked if much of it has been remastered and reissued.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: S.O.P.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
They should have mimicked iTunes
As for the labels - I already have most of the songs on iTunes, but I'm willing to buy them again so I can play them on Guitar Hero. Why in the world would you over-charge for that? That and the fact that guitar hero songs lead to more purchases outside the game. It just seems like a missed opportunity on both sides.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: They should have mimicked iTunes
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: They should have mimicked iTunes
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Honestly
The genre failed to really innovate. And when it did, it was too expensive (see Rock Band 3).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
k
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Insider look.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE Ima Fish
I can clearly remember when cassettes were killing the music industry.
I remember when CD's were killing the music industry.
Now the internet is killing the music industry.
Seems odd their profits are increasing exponentially, I bet a lot of other industries wish they were being killed off as much.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110209/01314213018/recording-industry-persecution-co mplex-claiming-emis-plight-is-due-to-file-sharing.shtml
Now, if licensing fees are so high, why would EMI be going broke?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Apparently not.
So the question is this: Was the licensing that good? Or is it a red herring being played up by people who hate record labels and copyright?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
IT's not the fault of customers if they don't buy overpriced product.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Amazing
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Amazing
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
When the original developer of Guitar Hero left to create Rockband, everyone cried that Activision was going to run the franchise into the ground. This was reinforced by the announced business models - Harmonix wanted to rely on an infrequent game disc supported by new downloadable material every week. Activision paid lip service to the idea of downloads but put out very little, prefering to flood the market with more frequent new games. Like the music industry when downloads became available, users wondered why they had to buy a whole new $80 game to get the 5 songs they liked.
Now that the predictions have come true, it's amusing that Activision is trying to justify it by claiming that demand has slowed - as show by Rockband 3's weak sales. Rockband 3 had issues of it's own - a new play mode promoted to the minority "power users" and a lack of supply of their promised new instruments. They made one bad move, and the parent company panicked and ran.
As far as the "licensing costs sank the franchise" line goes, I don't buy it. Rockband has been putting out 3-10 tracks a week since RB1 was released, in a pay-per-song business model. If the costs were as high as they say, that whole model would have been yanked long ago.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"Although Guitar Hero is a goner, games built around music 'will never die,' Divnich said. 'Harmonix has [Kinect game] Dance Central, and that took off huge.'
I'm pretty sure Dance Central contains music, and the creators are paying equivalent licensing royalties. So... how is it again that licensing royalties are killing off these games?
What a misleading article, Mike.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The existence of one circumstance does not automatically preclude another, unless they are mutually exclusive (as in, a coin flipped heads cannot be flipped tails at the same time without going into beyond-freaky physics).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/blogs/gear-up/guitar-hero-dead-20110209?hpt=Sbin
Mike, perhaps time to admit you were mislead by Wired's "non quote".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Free alternatives
However, I doubt ANYONE here has understood that the game music industry started elsewhere.
So tell me... If Konami could make a game that was built around a gaming experience, why not Harmonix or Guitar Hero?
They did it on a smaller scale. Still, the music industry killed this. The licensing is sure to kill it where the games could have truly diversified and exposed more gamers to the artists involved.
Further, think about how the Drummania games have gone on for 10+ years due to possibly less stringent licensing.
Activision also does one other thing that really hurts them though, which is releasing a new game (at $60 a pop) every year.
So it is that Activision saturated the market, there was less variety, and the game industry truly lost some great game makers.
Should be interesting to see what comes out afterwards... I'm sure with the patents on dance moves, Harmonix may just have to move on to virtual drums next.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Here's a good explanation of the market
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Here's a good explanation of the market
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Playing the music video game
http://www.musicvidkid.com/?p=727
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This is where it is all headed
Music Hack Day NYC: ‘Strings’ Draws a Playable Harp in Thin Air | Evolver.fm
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Missing the forest for the trees
DICE Video Game Conference Considers Gaming’s Future - NYTimes.com: "After years of consistent growth, retail sales of core console games, which often cost around $60, are at best flat these days. Though an improving economy could change that, the major growth in the game business is on social networks and cellphones."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]